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I was wondering, has anyone done a comprehensive list of Races of D-Bee who can be members of other classes besides just an RCC? I was looking at the Rifts Mercenaries Super-spy and it mentions being a D-Bee as an option, and I was thinking about doing a list of suitable D-bees for the class.

D-bees of North America (World Book 30) would be a good place to start.

AlanGunhouse wrote:I was wondering, has anyone done a comprehensive list of Races of D-Bee who can be members of other classes besides just an RCC? I was looking at the Rifts Mercenaries Super-spy and it mentions being a D-Bee as an option, and I was thinking about doing a list of suitable D-bees for the class.

Not that I've heard about. Such a list would be impractical given the volume of playable aliens and OCCs. There are at least 146 aliens (based on a semi-complete complied language list, and this ignores races that share languages and books I don't have), and I don't even want to think about how many OCCs are out there, then you have to look to see what races can take OCCs. I suspect to that most of the races aren't going to be overly confined either, but treat it as broad category with exceptions (ex. All Men of Arms class, except CS military).

You best bet is to just check to see if the race you want can take an OCC and what OCCs it can take.

Even though aliens unlimited is "Guy with rubber animal mask" styled artwerk, the actual write-ups aren't half bad. Also almost every one of the playable races (and there are a LOT of them) give suggestions for both HU:2 AND Rifts OCC's.

D-Bee's of North-Am also continues this trend; even when the race is given the dreaded R.C.C label; GM's and players are given an out with the paranthetical (may take any men at arms / mage / adventurer class / etc OCC).

Only sometimes is there an available OCC list, DhAkael.

Impractical or not, such a list would be very useful at times.

Yeah, frankly, based on some of the RCCs' skill selections, it's hard to imagine them having stable and complex societies.

Even intelligent species that are, from a human standpoint, well-nigh invincible, I'd think you'd see some professional doctors and the like emerging, unless they're REALLY ripped, solitary, or using some other means (magic, symbiotic/slave species, etc.) to remain healthy.

Agreed, a working society needs a variety of abilities that grows and expands at it matures.

AlanGunhouse wrote:Agreed, a working society needs a variety of abilities that grows and expands at it matures.

Or starts complicating itself unnecessarily. Such as producing Telephone Sanitizers, Third Class.

The point is, however, that most intelligent beings should have a variety of possible character classes. Even non-humanoid species can learn more than one kind of skill.

AlanGunhouse wrote:The point is, however, that most intelligent beings should have a variety of possible character classes. Even non-humanoid species can learn more than one kind of skill.

Many RCCs tend to be rather general with regards to skill selections, and physiology tends to play a role in what's likely to be a common enough specialization(you're not likely to see too many dentists arising as a profession in a society of evolved sharks, where dental care consists of 'Oops, I just lost a tooth; fortunately I happen to have about a dozen others waiting right behind it.")

AlanGunhouse wrote:The point is, however, that most intelligent beings should have a variety of possible character classes. Even non-humanoid species can learn more than one kind of skill.

It's not about learning one type of skill.

It's actually pretty realistic. In RUE it explains that megadamage beings don't learn formal fighting (the boxing or kickboxing skills)

And they wouldn't, because why learn to punch like a mortal? Seriously, I'm going to, what? Increase my SDC damage by a slight bit? Who cares. The strongest boxer who ever lived is outclassed by a light tap from me.

I'm not going to bob and weave when a tank shell to the face bounces right off.

The same is going to be true about a lot of OCCs.

Maybe the race can't be psychic or can't use magic. Maybe power armor doesn't accommodate their frame or they can't see certain colors well on the HUD.

It would be really hard to teach a Dragon to be a Cyber-Knight.

I doubt it's helpful, but I usually default to the individual write up as to whether or not a given RCC can select an OCC or not. But I also tend to limit OCC and RCC selections to the specific setting my group is going to be playing in or an approved out of setting OCC/RCC so the need for a master list is pretty negligible for me.

If you do put together a list, I hope you post a link to it. I'd definitely be interested in checking it out.

None of that would prevent, for example, the mega-damage person from learning to be a doctor for his own species (since they can hurt each other in most cases).

AlanGunhouse wrote:None of that would prevent, for example, the mega-damage person from learning to be a doctor for his own species (since they can hurt each other in most cases).

What would an MD species need doctors for? 90% can't get sick and they all seem to regenerate on their own. The only way they can really get hurt is by intentional attack (which is like 5% of what doctors deal with) humans need doctors because we're very frail.

Not all mega-damage creatures regenerate, and even those who do have limits (like if hit by depleted uranium shells).

HWalsh wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:None of that would prevent, for example, the mega-damage person from learning to be a doctor for his own species (since they can hurt each other in most cases).

What would an MD species need doctors for? 90% can't get sick and they all seem to regenerate on their own. The only way they can really get hurt is by intentional attack (which is like 5% of what doctors deal with) humans need doctors because we're very frail.

Because communal MDC species are going to be sharing microorganisms, some of which are going to mutate to sicken or hurt their hosts. They're going to come in conflict with each other, they're going to learn to hurt each other.
A 'Saturday Night Special' hand gun for an MDC species may be an anti-tank weapon to you and I, but it's going to hurt the species that developed it. Somebody's going to have to know how to go in and fish out the projectiles or stop the bleeding without the patient dying on them.
What if only a species' carapace is MDC, and the insides are soft and gooey? Wanna die because of internal bleeding on top of a cracked carapace? Having a member of your species who has the skills to treat the injury would sure come in handy.
Have a problem with a disease or a parasite that evolved with your species? What if vampire flatworms are really mutations of intestinal tape worms from critters like spiny ravagers or a big and INTELLIGENT MDC critter? Simple holistic medicine in that species' skill set might not be enough to remove those pesky worms, and they might not have access to magic like 'Purge'. The member of that species that figures out how to cure the condition is going to get rich, and others are going to want a piece of that action.
And technology. Unless your species is thoroughly happy with what they got, or what they can mooch off other species, having somebody able to develop, fix, and maintain your own technologies is going to real nice to have. Right?

Quite right, Taalismn.

I would generally work it out with your GM (or players, if you are the GM) as to how you want to play the particular D-Bee. Rifts can be confusing with this type of thing, but it can be done. For example; any of the Were-creatures listed in the Conversion book (also WB6 South America for the Were-Jaguar) are listed as RCCs, but if you read The Rifter #4 they have them listed for the Nightbane game with the same stats (minus MDC attack damage) and there are no RCC skills, but they can choose and OCC.
I do like what they did in the Skraypers (DB4) book. If you look at the Freedom Fighter or Elite Freedom Fighter OCCs (pg 108 & 109) they allow for super powered beings to have that OCC by cutting the Related and Secondary skills in half. All this said it seems to me that you should be able to modify a D-Bee by removing his RCC skills and making it into OCC skills, plus removing some Related or Secondary skills if necessary to even things out.

AlanGunhouse wrote:The point is, however, that most intelligent beings should have a variety of possible character classes. Even non-humanoid species can learn more than one kind of skill.

Should yes, but that doesn't mean they will:
-character classes tend to be for the players, and don't always cover every possible role in a given society
-physiology/make-up or even psychological/cultural aspect might prevent them from taking certain OCCs (ex Magic, Psionics, Augmentation, etc might not work/be available for a given race, Dragons can't get Bionics for ex) or even consider taking said OCCs (ex Dwarves in PF don't take magic OCCs)

ShadowLogan wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:The point is, however, that most intelligent beings should have a variety of possible character classes. Even non-humanoid species can learn more than one kind of skill.

Should yes, but that doesn't mean they will:
-character classes tend to be for the players, and don't always cover every possible role in a given society
-physiology/make-up or even psychological/cultural aspect might prevent them from taking certain OCCs (ex Magic, Psionics, Augmentation, etc might not work/be available for a given race, Dragons can't get Bionics for ex) or even consider taking said OCCs (ex Dwarves in PF don't take magic OCCs)

Indeed...and some species just discourage certain roles because they imply a degree of social interaction(if only to learn certain skills/abilities), which may not be relevant or encouraged (or even possible) in that species.

my personal feeling is that unless a species has specific reasons for not needing a skill set they are likely to have a full range of skills and class equivalents, I can think of some exceptions but they would have explanations.

if your race is decidedly primitive you may not have developed anything much more complicated than say stone age tech. then obviously you would be limited to skills that fit that technology base.

if you are similar to a shark, then dentists would be extremely rare to nonexistent as a specialty, but you would likely still have medical professions and some of them might at least have theoretical experience to deal with that races dental issues on the occasions they arise, granted most dental treatment may involve pliers but what about a defect that causes the teeth to not regrow/replace correctly.

if you naturally regenerate like starfish you may not need much in the way of health care for "normal" stuff, but you might still have "trauma" health care.

also depending on your physiology your medical profession might be closer to masons, or metalworkers (blacksmiths)

guardiandashi wrote:
if you naturally regenerate like starfish you may not need much in the way of health care for "normal" stuff, but you might still have "trauma" health care.)

"Is my limb supposed to grow back like that? It never did before! What's wrong with me!?"
"We can try cutting it off again, and see what grows back in its place..but let me check the literature; there might have been cases similar to yours. In the meantime, my advice is don't panic. You've got people working on this now."

Of course, there are cases where only members of a given group ever would show up on Rifts Earth, like the Faerie Bots (All scientific explorers) or the Ecto-men (All criminals). Still working on looking over the lists, have not even considered actually writing up anything yet (too busy).

AlanGunhouse wrote:I was wondering, has anyone done a comprehensive list of Races of D-Bee who can be members of other classes besides just an RCC? I was looking at the Rifts Mercenaries Super-spy and it mentions being a D-Bee as an option, and I was thinking about doing a list of suitable D-bees for the class.

RCCs……

Do you mean….
RCCs that are like dragons or Neo Humans where they have a mandatory CC?
RCCs where they really mean PCC like in the mind melter in the RMB?
RCC's meaning a mislabeled Race with a Racially Restricted CC attached like most races in the De-Bees of NA book?
Or a Race mislabeled without a Racially Restricted CC attached like the Akami Stonemen in SA2?
(Had to define what sort of RCCs there are out there to answer the question with specificity.)

As to a list of Races mislabeled as RCCs…no, there is none to my knowledge.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:I was wondering, has anyone done a comprehensive list of Races of D-Bee who can be members of other classes besides just an RCC? I was looking at the Rifts Mercenaries Super-spy and it mentions being a D-Bee as an option, and I was thinking about doing a list of suitable D-bees for the class.

RCCs……

Do you mean….
RCCs that are like dragons or Neo Humans where they have a mandatory CC?
RCCs where they really mean PCC like in the mind melter in the RMB?
RCC's meaning a mislabeled Race with a Racially Restricted CC attached like most races in the De-Bees of NA book?
Or a Race mislabeled without a Racially Restricted CC attached like the Akami Stonemen in SA2?
(Had to define what sort of RCCs there are out there to answer the question with specificity.)

As to a list of Races mislabeled as RCCs…no, there is none to my knowledge.

That was kind of the question...

I mean presumably what you are calling a Race...obviously one without a Mandatory CC, and one that is not a PCC.

AlanGunhouse wrote:

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:...
RCC's meaning a mislabeled Race with a Racially Restricted CC attached like most races in the De-Bees of NA book?
Or a Race mislabeled without a Racially Restricted CC attached like the Akami Stonemen in SA2?

...

That was kind of the question...

I mean presumably what you are calling a Race...obviously one without a Mandatory CC, and one that is not a PCC.

I edited the quote of my post to just list the ones are just races mislabeled as a CC.

Why to I talk as if they are races and not RCCs? Cause if you look at the canon text of the so called ""RCC"" you find out most are not a RCC at all. (RCC is defined in RUE as a race w/a mandatory CC.) Most of them are just an alien race.

It has gotten a bit confusing...they should do something about sorting it all. Race, race-specific class, and RCC and PCC should be separated out

AlanGunhouse wrote:I was wondering, has anyone done a comprehensive list of Races of D-Bee who can be members of other classes besides just an RCC? I was looking at the Rifts Mercenaries Super-spy and it mentions being a D-Bee as an option, and I was thinking about doing a list of suitable D-bees for the class.

There is a Changling in the book under Crow's Commandos but I think she also got magic too. they might have meant that something with R.C.C. could take instead though Changlings are not like that.

AlanGunhouse wrote:It has gotten a bit confusing...they should do something about sorting it all. Race, race-specific class, and RCC and PCC should be separated out

I did post up this…

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=127182

not bad

AlanGunhouse wrote:I was wondering, has anyone done a comprehensive list of Races of D-Bee who can be members of other classes besides just an RCC? I was looking at the Rifts Mercenaries Super-spy and it mentions being a D-Bee as an option, and I was thinking about doing a list of suitable D-bees for the class.

I would say look for a race that you think would make a good spy and then bring it to your GM. I would go with disguise(shape shifting) or intelligence gathering (natural spi or invisibility powers.)
I would also say the Doppelgangers found in AU would be good candidate.
Shifter Mice from after the bomb would be a good possibility.
Heck Pleasure bunnies might make good spies as well.

HWalsh wrote:In RUE it explains that megadamage beings don't learn formal fighting (the boxing or kickboxing skills)

And they wouldn't, because why learn to punch like a mortal? Seriously, I'm going to, what? Increase my SDC damage by a slight bit? Who cares. The strongest boxer who ever lived is outclassed by a light tap from me.

I'm not going to bob and weave when a tank shell to the face bounces right off.

I thought that was something about demons or creatures of magic.

There should be an obvious problem with thinking MDC beings don't learn HTH skills. Pretty sure there are several MDC NPCS with HTH skills out there. Or entire classes, like Sea Titans, who have it by default.

Axelmania wrote:

HWalsh wrote:In RUE it explains that megadamage beings don't learn formal fighting (the boxing or kickboxing skills)

And they wouldn't, because why learn to punch like a mortal? Seriously, I'm going to, what? Increase my SDC damage by a slight bit? Who cares. The strongest boxer who ever lived is outclassed by a light tap from me.

I'm not going to bob and weave when a tank shell to the face bounces right off.

I thought that was something about demons or creatures of magic.

There should be an obvious problem with thinking MDC beings don't learn HTH skills. Pretty sure there are several MDC NPCS with HTH skills out there. Or entire classes, like Sea Titans, who have it by default.

perhaps if he had a quote with page number we can see what they say and the context it is used. IE the dragon does not learn formal hand to hand but has its own special hand to hand, most RCCs of MD creatures have hand to hand as part of the RCC that they instinctual know not train in. But if a MDC race was not using instinctual RCC but a learned occ it would have to learn a formal fighting style.

Saitou Hajime wrote:

AlanGunhouse wrote:I was wondering, has anyone done a comprehensive list of Races of D-Bee who can be members of other classes besides just an RCC? I was looking at the Rifts Mercenaries Super-spy and it mentions being a D-Bee as an option, and I was thinking about doing a list of suitable D-bees for the class.

There is a Changling in the book under Crow's Commandos but I think she also got magic too. they might have meant that something with R.C.C. could take instead though Changlings are not like that.

I saw it as a way to pull in races from other games that have not been converted such as an alien from AU, or a mutant animal from after the bomb as well as a possible option for races with rcc under gm discretion.

It can probably be used as a way to pull in other races, such as from AU, as well, though you will probably find a lot of them have been converted.

AlanGunhouse wrote:It can probably be used as a way to pull in other races, such as from AU, as well, though you will probably find a lot of them have been converted.

Now allot of them have been converted but the book is quit old. Several other games have races with no CC attached to them.

It would give away to add them does not require creating a whole charter in game X to convert but rather just add racial powers to a OCC.

I agree that AU is quite old, and some things in it could probably stand to be updated. There are a few things I would do different is designing the entire HU system these days...