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I saw this tonight and thought it was fun

http://image01.seesaawiki.jp/h/n/harmony-gold_japan/98642d756bd33dce.jpg

masslegion wrote:I saw this tonight and thought it was fun

http://image01.seesaawiki.jp/h/n/harmony-gold_japan/98642d756bd33dce.jpg

Lancer: (Tapping the monitor screen from his end) "Guys! I think I see the next refit for Argo."

Kirk: "NO FAIR!!! THE CREW OF THE GARGOYLE WAS HERE FIRST!!!"

SRoss wrote:[

Lancer: (Tapping the monitor screen from his end) "Guys! I think I see the next refit for Argo."

Kirk: "NO FAIR!!! THE CREW OF THE GARGOYLE WAS HERE FIRST!!!"

"Two hulls on the Gargoyle simply means we'll have disputes over which hull leads."

If I ever wrote fan fiction with this pic, I'd name it the Janus Class from the Roman two faced God. I'd also name any future ships in the class from multiple headed beings and creatures from mythology.

Janus is the god of beginnings, gates, transitions, time, doorways, passages, and endings. He is usually depicted as having two faces, since he looks to the future and to the past. Janus presided over the beginning and ending of conflict, and hence war and peace.
The doors of his temple were open in time of war, and closed to mark the peace.
The ancient Greeks had no equivalent to Janus, whom the Romans claimed as distinctively their own.

from Wikipedia

Christian Kaw drew that for me, based on my recommendations. The idea is that its a "mass produced" version of the SDF-03 capable of being reconfigured from an armored colony ship (my take on the Angel-class) to SDF "Escort"-type ship (basically a chopped down version of an SDF).

honestly, i like that visual design (and similar efforts by others) for what the SDF-2 would look like. we know they were building tokugawa's at the same time as the SDF-2, and it makes more sense that they'd use common parts, design style, and doctrines as much as possible. (look how much the Tokugawa's resemble the Tristar and the other ASC-fleet ships built in the same era)

glitterboy2098 wrote:honestly, i like that visual design (and similar efforts by others) for what the SDF-2 would look like. we know they were building tokugawa's at the same time as the SDF-2, and it makes more sense that they'd use common parts, design style, and doctrines as much as possible. (look how much the Tokugawa's resemble the Tristar and the other ASC-fleet ships built in the same era)

Battlefortress understudy? One that's more practical and useful than similar design works in history?(The B-29 had a backup design that was developed in parallel, the B-32 "Dominator' that failed in almost every regard to meeting spec and being operational on time)

i just think that the assumption the SDF-2 is an exact copy of the SDF-1 is shortsighted and little more than too much preference for Japanese Macross over Robotech. While humanity in Robotech clearly understands enough about the SDF-1's systems to repair, rebuild, and modify tyrolian/zentreadi vessels, but when given a chance to design and build their own ships using that technology (and a tyrolian built mobile shipyard!) they still went with their own design style both inside and out. one that was as different from the hybrid design of the SDF-1 as it was with the tyrolian and zentraedi styles.

it seems odd to assume that they would on one hand build a bunch of very distinct ships (tokugawa's, tristars, etc), and then on the other build an exact copy of a tyrolian design, including the various macguyver'd repairs and fixes the SDF-1 has (like the need to transform)
(i also find it odd that the same people who beleive earth built an exact copy of the SDF-1, alien tech and all, are also the ones most likely to claim the pure human designed ships lack any sort of advanced tyrolian/zentraedi based technology, and that humans can't duplicate or understand tyrolian/zent tech at all. contradictory.)

glitterboy2098 wrote:i just think that the assumption the SDF-2 is an exact copy of the SDF-1 is shortsighted and little more than too much preference for Japanese Macross over Robotech.

It's not really an assumption, per se... the one and only time the SDF-2 actually appeared in a Robotech title, in the Comico comic book adaptation that Macek worked on, it was depicted as a second Macross-class ship that was visibly based on the original Studio Nue design for the SDF-2 albeit with a different color scheme. A scan of the comic in question was used for the Infopedia FAQ about the SDF-2. Not explicitly canon, but it's literally the only time the SDF-2 has ever truly appeared in Robotech, and probably meant to rationalize the dialog in the series where Rick says the SDF-2 is hit but the animation shows the SDF-1 (because the SDF-1 was alone in the lake in the original).

glitterboy2098 wrote:While humanity in Robotech clearly understands enough about the SDF-1's systems to repair, rebuild, and modify tyrolian/zentreadi vessels, but when given a chance to design and build their own ships using that technology (and a tyrolian built mobile shipyard!) they still went with their own design style both inside and out.

Possibly something to do with cost... a non-modular ship is probably a good deal simpler, and therefore cheaper, to build when you can't just strip an existing alien-built ship down for working parts and reuse them in the new ship as they were allegedly doing in the SDF-2's case. (If I recall correctly, some of the old Sentinels material implied the SDF-3 also contained tech salvage from the wrecks of the SDF-1 and SDF-2.)

glitterboy2098 wrote:(i also find it odd that the same people who beleive earth built an exact copy of the SDF-1, alien tech and all, are also the ones most likely to claim the pure human designed ships lack any sort of advanced tyrolian/zentraedi based technology, and that humans can't duplicate or understand tyrolian/zent tech at all. contradictory.)

Well, it'd certainly be odd if someone said those specific things... but there is a grain of truth in both. Human-built ships are fundamentally based around technology reverse-engineered from alien ships, but human technology is noted to be less advanced than that of other space-going species (in Prelude) and both AotSC and the RPG indicate tech salvage is considered more desirable for certain key systems in human ships (reflex furnaces, fold drives) because human-made versions of those systems are crude and unreliable.

Maybe I am remembering things from the novels, and 1st edition RPG but also from the episode of the anime, but the way I remember it in the Robotech version. The SDF2 was built in "battloid" mode back to back with the SDF1 in the lake, at the time Kyron attacked the two were linked by umbilicals because a large number of systems were in the process of being moved to the SDF-2 because the systems were still functional but the SDF-1's "frame" and a large number of other systems were so badly trashed there was no point in trying to reuse them so were replaced through a combination of new construction and salvage from other sources.