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I could have sworn I seen a map of the lay line's for PFG but I cant not find it anywhere. will I just have to do like normal and make it up?

Library of Bletherad, page 133.

It's important to note that the Ley Lines on Palladium apparently move.
One thing I always found odd was that the millennium tree in the disputed lands is nowhere near a ley line, when they are supposed to only grow on nexus points.

Whiskeyjack wrote:It's important to note that the Ley Lines on Palladium apparently move.
One thing I always found odd was that the millennium tree in the disputed lands is nowhere near a ley line, when they are supposed to only grow on nexus points.

Actually it is more that LL & LLN in all the Palladium settings move about. Slowly, but apparently faster then continental drift.

Whiskeyjack wrote:It's important to note that the Ley Lines on Palladium apparently move.
One thing I always found odd was that the millennium tree in the disputed lands is nowhere near a ley line, when they are supposed to only grow on nexus points.

It is possible to have a Nexus Point with out (much) ley line
Its just fairly rare. The official Rifter article has some information on how that could happen, and BTS1 had various kinds of Places of Power that could do it as well.

Thus it is possible that the Tree is on a Place of Power that is effectively a Nexus. Though in the low magic world of PF it needed to tap even more 'mana' and thus both the wide scale magic drain and the tap into the Old Ones seal.

And ley lines move over time so it may have been on one originally

kiralon wrote:And ley lines move over time so it may have been on one originally

In point of fact this might be how you get 'tears of magic'
Something anchored immovably to the Ley Line (such as a pyramid, or Millennium Tree or some such)... while the line itself moves. The result could be that a piece of the line 'tears off' leaving you the tiny transient places of power and tears of magic and such.

If they naturally move, wouldn't places like stonehenge in Rifts no longer be on a nexus or ley line?

Whiskeyjack wrote:If they naturally move, wouldn't places like stonehenge in Rifts no longer be on a nexus or ley line?

They can move.
Not all of them do, just that they can.
Some of the lines in PF have remained unmoved for 100,000+ years while others have moved in just ten or twenty thousand years or less (the PF maps for instance are only a few thousand years old...)
There appears to be no rhyme or reason to this other than the whim of Fate.

Is there any other canon reference to them moving outside of LoB? Reading that always struck me as odd. They seem like a permanent fixture of the landscape to me.

eliakon wrote:

kiralon wrote:And ley lines move over time so it may have been on one originally

In point of fact this might be how you get 'tears of magic'
Something anchored immovably to the Ley Line (such as a pyramid, or Millennium Tree or some such)... while the line itself moves. The result could be that a piece of the line 'tears off' leaving you the tiny transient places of power and tears of magic and such.

or a pyramid, stone circle, Millennium tree, etc acts as an anchor for the line, preventing it from moving in the normal way.. with the stress on the line creating higher than normal incidences of Transitional places of power (where a part of a ley line surges with immense power)

maybe an anchored line does move, but it moves around the fixed point.. so one point means it revolves around that spot. two points means that one line never moves but the others do. get enough such fixed points and you can prevent entire networks from changing.


also, a few things to consider. ley lines are supposed to rise and sink as well as move N/S and E/W. and grow and shrink.

and from the backstory of manoa and clan Skellian in rifts WB6 south america 1, areas with a large number of pyramids located on the ley lines and nexi (like the yucatan and mexico) apparently can retain their magic far longer in the event of something like the Earth's post-atlantis fade, which would kind of suggest that pyramids and similar actually do serve as an anchor for ley lines and their PPE.

The map in Library of Bletherad is not ALL the Ley Lines, so there can still be a major Nexus in Glade. There are more Ley Lines in Palladium Fantasy then that map shows.

thank you all for the point in the right direction. I have LoB will have to look it up thank again.

Whiskeyjack wrote:If they naturally move, wouldn't places like stonehenge in Rifts no longer be on a nexus or ley line?

These places may have been known as places of power for much of recorded history... but that isn't very long... only about 5000 years or so. Even assuming that they have been such since before the height of Atlantis, that only puts these places as major nexus points for about 10,000 to 15,000 years. Even with all this time, the chances that the ley lines have shifted, at least with these powerful nexus points, is remote.

Palladium Fantasy's recorded history goes back much further than Earths... approximately 100,000 years. While there are huge gaps in that history... it is still much more than what is known on Earth. Over that much time, the shifting of ley lines is much more noticeable.

So while the shifting of ley lines hasn't really been noticed on Earth in the last 5000 years of recorded history, it has been noticed on Palladium with their 100,000 years of recorded history.

So, back to my previous question. Is LoB the only canon source for them moving, or is it mentioned in other books?

The Lore - Geomancy skill also says
'The study includes "known" locations of such
places, as well as the many theories behind them and the legacy of legends,
mysteries, disappearances and dangers linked to each'
So they are known to disappear

I read that as strange phenomenon happening there, such as people disappearing, not the place of magic disappearing. LoB is still the only reference I'm aware of that mentions them moving.

Ambiguities abound, but it can be interpreted both ways, however its likely that only LoB has the specific information as information on ley lines is different in the books, eg the old one book says the place of magic has 6 nexus's and a dozen ley lines, whereas the main book says there is a super nexus there with scores of ley lines, so the information changes.

We also have to remember that on Palladium, the power of magic is waning... in the 100,000 years of history, the power of Ley Lines has gone from 10 times that of Rifts Earth (before the Chaos War that ended the Age of Chaos and ushered in the Age of Light) to a mere 40% of what is known on Rifts Earth (during the Age of Man).

Many of the "moved" ley lines may merely have been the weakest lines that have more or less dried up... to the point where they are barely noticeable, even by men of magic. The ones that remain are likely the most powerful ley lines on Palladium... and could retain their power for a few more millennia before they too "disappear", bringing Palladium's level of magic down to what we see in settings like HU, NB and BtS.

We also know that Nazca Line magic has the power to move and extend ley lines... magic that may once have been known of Palladium and could have been used at many points in its history (the Time of 1000 Magics and the Age of Elves being the most likely). This magic could also be responsible for the apparent "moving" of ley lines as various nations and powers at these times relied on magic... sort of the magical equivalent of rerouting rivers and such.

Even with a world like Palladium, that relies heavily on magic and has a long recorded history... there is much about magic that is unknown or been lost to past ages... whether ley lines actually move over time or merely vanish or are moved by others is one of these mysteries.

Razorwing wrote:Even with a world like Palladium, that relies heavily on magic and has a long recorded history... there is much about magic that is unknown or been lost to past ages... whether ley lines actually move over time or merely vanish or are moved by others is one of these mysteries.

Well said