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How do vampires work on wormwood with no dirt for homeland soil??

Either the planet counts, or they can't exist there natively. I prefer the latter; it helps makes Wormwood more distinct as a setting.

Riftmaker wrote:How do vampires work on wormwood with no dirt for homeland soil??

Well you might've noticed that Wormwood doesn't really have much of a vampire problem...

True enough.

Riftmaker wrote:How do vampires work on wormwood with no dirt for homeland soil??

imported soil, there's a city full of that which grows plants

Axelmania wrote:

Riftmaker wrote:How do vampires work on wormwood with no dirt for homeland soil??

imported soil, there's a city full of that which grows plants

Based on how vampires work, that would be great for a vampire who is from wherever the soil was imported, but I can't see it counting for a Vampire created on Wormwood. If moving soil changed where it were from, vampires could never leave their homelands!

You could always use the more traditional vampires from the Rifter #49. They were created for the Nightbane setting but I personally like them a lot more. Rifts vampires are cool and all but having the more traditional blood sucker not connected to some alien intelligence is way more flavorful in my opinion and fits nicely into the wormwood setting.

to be honest, you could expand the definition of soil to include the 'ground' of wormwood, and just have a wormwood native vampire be unable to leave the planet.

glitterboy2098 wrote:to be honest, you could expand the definition of soil to include the 'ground' of wormwood, and just have a wormwood native vampire be unable to leave the planet.

Except for that small chunk of Wormwood (relatively speaking) on Rifts Earth, which means there's a similar chunk of Wormwood that's now entirely made up of normal Earth Materials.

glitterboy2098 wrote:to be honest, you could expand the definition of soil to include the 'ground' of wormwood, and just have a wormwood native vampire be unable to leave the planet.

powdered resin?

<Demon> *sniff* "Hey Vlad? Why do you smell of pine?"
<Vlad> "I Don't Want To Talk About It"

I always assumed there were a lot of vampires working for the Host. Only 4 of the OCC's did not start with vampire slaying weapons (stakes/mallet and/or silver weapons) but had the option of selecting several weapons of choice (all except Holy Terror).

Riftmaker wrote:How do vampires work on wormwood with no dirt for homeland soil??

They get a job just like everyone else.

If we want a less flippant suggestion than my first answer, maybe vampires who were created on Wormwood have to be in physical contact with the Living Planet to get the soil of the homeland effect when they sleep. Which means virtually any cave or natural building is fine and he can even sleep outdoors on bare ground as long as he's go time to put up some sort of shelter to keep the sun out, but if he gets caught out in the middle of nowhere without adequate shelter he's going to have to carve a burrow in the Living Planet's surface.

Oh and just in reply to Visgar, I don't think the Host tolerate vampires. A common theme running through the Rifts setting is that not even other evil factions like vampires, because if you don't root them out as soon as you find them you'll end up with an infestation in your human slave population and the next thing you know some Vampire Intelligence jerk will be trying to steal the whole damn planet.

dreicunan wrote:

Axelmania wrote:

Riftmaker wrote:How do vampires work on wormwood with no dirt for homeland soil??

imported soil, there's a city full of that which grows plants

Based on how vampires work, that would be great for a vampire who is from wherever the soil was imported, but I can't see it counting for a Vampire created on Wormwood. If moving soil changed where it were from, vampires could never leave their homelands!

That or the soll counts as belonging to 2 places, soil may count as being the homeland of wherever it used to be and wherever it is currently.

If you go back far enough, I'm sure a lot of topsoil from North American might have existed on some other continent. Doesn't some dirty get blown across the sea? Continental barriers? Dust in the wind?

If a vampire takes trips to Wormwood to slow-kill a guy who was born in Plant City and lived there his whole life, and he's buried there in Plant City, that is most definitely Wormwood soil.

Of course, it might also be a blend of a thousand planets' worth of soils all mixed together... soil blends would surely complicate things.

For example, if I took 1 kilogram of soil from HU, Nightbane, PF, Rifts Earth, Center... and mixed them all together in a coffin ,could that coffin support 5 different dimensions of vampire?

Axelmania wrote:

dreicunan wrote:

Axelmania wrote:

Riftmaker wrote:How do vampires work on wormwood with no dirt for homeland soil??

imported soil, there's a city full of that which grows plants

Based on how vampires work, that would be great for a vampire who is from wherever the soil was imported, but I can't see it counting for a Vampire created on Wormwood. If moving soil changed where it were from, vampires could never leave their homelands!

That or the soll counts as belonging to 2 places, soil may count as being the homeland of wherever it used to be and wherever it is currently.

If you go back far enough, I'm sure a lot of topsoil from North American might have existed on some other continent. Doesn't some dirty get blown across the sea? Continental barriers? Dust in the wind?

If a vampire takes trips to Wormwood to slow-kill a guy who was born in Plant City and lived there his whole life, and he's buried there in Plant City, that is most definitely Wormwood soil.

Of course, it might also be a blend of a thousand planets' worth of soils all mixed together... soil blends would surely complicate things.

For example, if I took 1 kilogram of soil from HU, Nightbane, PF, Rifts Earth, Center... and mixed them all together in a coffin ,could that coffin support 5 different dimensions of vampire?

Based on my reading of VKr p. 78-78, no, it would not. It wouldn't support any of them. However, I'm not going to disparage anyone who decides otherwise.

Pg 78 "the "homeland" is the place where the vampire was born, not the birthplace of the man he slew and body he stole" so clearly your 'home' soil is whatever soil you were occupying when you were turned. Where it originally came from prior to being turned wouldn't matter, just whether it was where you were when you were turned.

So for example, if I took 100 pounds of soil from North America HU to Wormwood, then became a vampire on that soil, I couldn't just go back to North America HU and live there, even though it was originally HU soil, because it was Wormwood soil in respect to me when I was turned.

However, if I was turned to a vampire in North America HU and then took 100 pounds of that NAHU soil to Wormwood, I could sleep on it.

Homeland is "continent" based (which is weird, because North and South America are ATTACHED, and Asia is physically connected to both Africa and Europe... Our classifications of continents are somewhat arbitrary, and even include islands.

I mean... RAW a vampire created in Panama (southern tip of North America) could not sleep in Columbia (northern tip of South America) but he could sleep in Alaska (most distant, North-Western tip of North America) despite that being much further away... and he could even sleep on islands included in the NA continent like Hawaii or Jamaica despite the water barrier.

Furthermore, if Panama suddenly declared themselves part of South America, this would all change...

This is why for "homeland" I'd prefer something like "soil taken from within 2000 miles of the place you were turned" as a house rule instead. Gets less goofy where human declarations of what continents are do not determine supernatural limits.

The problem with the 'continent' take is also that it conflicts with the classic lore. Dracula explicitly needed Transylvanian soil, not merely European soil, and he had a bunch of soil transported from Transylvania when he was staying in London, England.

This is why I think Islands ought to be a definite 'homeland' barrier, and all islands considered continents unto themselves.

Axelmania wrote:Pg 78 "the "homeland" is the place where the vampire was born, not the birthplace of the man he slew and body he stole" so clearly your 'home' soil is whatever soil you were occupying when you were turned. Where it originally came from prior to being turned wouldn't matter, just whether it was where you were when you were turned.

So for example, if I took 100 pounds of soil from North America HU to Wormwood, then became a vampire on that soil, I couldn't just go back to North America HU and live there, even though it was originally HU soil, because it was Wormwood soil in respect to me when I was turned.

However, if I was turned to a vampire in North America HU and then took 100 pounds of that NAHU soil to Wormwood, I could sleep on it.

Homeland is "continent" based (which is weird, because North and South America are ATTACHED, and Asia is physically connected to both Africa and Europe... Our classifications of continents are somewhat arbitrary, and even include islands.

I mean... RAW a vampire created in Panama (southern tip of North America) could not sleep in Columbia (northern tip of South America) but he could sleep in Alaska (most distant, North-Western tip of North America) despite that being much further away... and he could even sleep on islands included in the NA continent like Hawaii or Jamaica despite the water barrier.

Furthermore, if Panama suddenly declared themselves part of South America, this would all change...

This is why for "homeland" I'd prefer something like "soil taken from within 2000 miles of the place you were turned" as a house rule instead. Gets less goofy where human declarations of what continents are do not determine supernatural limits.

The problem with the 'continent' take is also that it conflicts with the classic lore. Dracula explicitly needed Transylvanian soil, not merely European soil, and he had a bunch of soil transported from Transylvania when he was staying in London, England.

This is why I think Islands ought to be a definite 'homeland' barrier, and all islands considered continents unto themselves.

Switch up "2000" for "100" mile radius and that is what my GM used as a house rule. It also helped to explain why vampire intelligences often end up so geographically limited. Otherwise, any VI worth anything would have one of its first moves be to create some vamps across a continental line so that it could have a backup group very far away from its main center of activity.

dreicunan wrote:

Axelmania wrote:The problem with the 'continent' take is also that it conflicts with the classic lore. Dracula explicitly needed Transylvanian soil, not merely European soil, and he had a bunch of soil transported from Transylvania when he was staying in London, England.

This is why I think Islands ought to be a definite 'homeland' barrier, and all islands considered continents unto themselves.

Switch up "2000" for "100" mile radius and that is what my GM used as a house rule. It also helped to explain why vampire intelligences often end up so geographically limited. Otherwise, any VI worth anything would have one of its first moves be to create some vamps across a continental line so that it could have a backup group very far away from its main center of activity.

A more metaphysical measure would be what you consider your homeland or territory when turned, whether that's an island, a continent you've traveled, the boundaries of a city or even only the house and yard where you woke up. This limits vampires in a more arbitrary and mystical way, some vampires may be able to easily roam the entire continent, others can't even leave home without a coffin of dirty from the back yard.

Also I think the geographically limited bit is because vampires are supernatural enemy #1, to expand their vampires have to make it from place to place despite numerous dangers and then secure a base of power while their main backer is a elsewhere. Sure they could probably do it in small number and by laying low, but then we don't get write ups about them because is there a need for the writers to tell us all of the hidden and convulted ways in which an alien mind may decide to prepare a back door to our world once more? Or can we just assume that the vampire intelligence has some back up plan and followers to establish a power base for it to return in time? Also why have a base way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood?

Nightmartree wrote:

dreicunan wrote:

Axelmania wrote:The problem with the 'continent' take is also that it conflicts with the classic lore. Dracula explicitly needed Transylvanian soil, not merely European soil, and he had a bunch of soil transported from Transylvania when he was staying in London, England.

This is why I think Islands ought to be a definite 'homeland' barrier, and all islands considered continents unto themselves.

Switch up "2000" for "100" mile radius and that is what my GM used as a house rule. It also helped to explain why vampire intelligences often end up so geographically limited. Otherwise, any VI worth anything would have one of its first moves be to create some vamps across a continental line so that it could have a backup group very far away from its main center of activity.

A more metaphysical measure would be what you consider your homeland or territory when turned, whether that's an island, a continent you've traveled, the boundaries of a city or even only the house and yard where you woke up. This limits vampires in a more arbitrary and mystical way, some vampires may be able to easily roam the entire continent, others can't even leave home without a coffin of dirty from the back yard.

Also I think the geographically limited bit is because vampires are supernatural enemy #1, to expand their vampires have to make it from place to place despite numerous dangers and then secure a base of power while their main backer is a elsewhere. Sure they could probably do it in small number and by laying low, but then we don't get write ups about them because is there a need for the writers to tell us all of the hidden and convulted ways in which an alien mind may decide to prepare a back door to our world once more? Or can we just assume that the vampire intelligence has some back up plan and followers to establish a power base for it to return in time? Also why have a base way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood?

Well, VIs are establishing bases "way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood" whenever they make a new master vampire. Standard operating procedue for them involves trying to make bases of power where they aren't, so that eventually they can be there.

dreicunan wrote:

Nightmartree wrote:

dreicunan wrote:

Axelmania wrote:The problem with the 'continent' take is also that it conflicts with the classic lore. Dracula explicitly needed Transylvanian soil, not merely European soil, and he had a bunch of soil transported from Transylvania when he was staying in London, England.

This is why I think Islands ought to be a definite 'homeland' barrier, and all islands considered continents unto themselves.

Switch up "2000" for "100" mile radius and that is what my GM used as a house rule. It also helped to explain why vampire intelligences often end up so geographically limited. Otherwise, any VI worth anything would have one of its first moves be to create some vamps across a continental line so that it could have a backup group very far away from its main center of activity.

A more metaphysical measure would be what you consider your homeland or territory when turned, whether that's an island, a continent you've traveled, the boundaries of a city or even only the house and yard where you woke up. This limits vampires in a more arbitrary and mystical way, some vampires may be able to easily roam the entire continent, others can't even leave home without a coffin of dirty from the back yard.

Also I think the geographically limited bit is because vampires are supernatural enemy #1, to expand their vampires have to make it from place to place despite numerous dangers and then secure a base of power while their main backer is a elsewhere. Sure they could probably do it in small number and by laying low, but then we don't get write ups about them because is there a need for the writers to tell us all of the hidden and convulted ways in which an alien mind may decide to prepare a back door to our world once more? Or can we just assume that the vampire intelligence has some back up plan and followers to establish a power base for it to return in time? Also why have a base way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood?

Well, VIs are establishing bases "way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood" whenever they make a new master vampire. Standard operating procedue for them involves trying to make bases of power where they aren't, so that eventually they can be there.

I also think that they like to have emergency bolt holes.
After all, they need a certain number of vampires on a world before they can enter into it... so if you have that many vampires on a number of worlds, even if something dangerous (by its standards... gods of light, a flight or five of angels, that sort of thing) shows up you can always spilt for safer pastures.

eliakon wrote:

dreicunan wrote:

Nightmartree wrote:

dreicunan wrote:

Axelmania wrote:The problem with the 'continent' take is also that it conflicts with the classic lore. Dracula explicitly needed Transylvanian soil, not merely European soil, and he had a bunch of soil transported from Transylvania when he was staying in London, England.

This is why I think Islands ought to be a definite 'homeland' barrier, and all islands considered continents unto themselves.

Switch up "2000" for "100" mile radius and that is what my GM used as a house rule. It also helped to explain why vampire intelligences often end up so geographically limited. Otherwise, any VI worth anything would have one of its first moves be to create some vamps across a continental line so that it could have a backup group very far away from its main center of activity.

A more metaphysical measure would be what you consider your homeland or territory when turned, whether that's an island, a continent you've traveled, the boundaries of a city or even only the house and yard where you woke up. This limits vampires in a more arbitrary and mystical way, some vampires may be able to easily roam the entire continent, others can't even leave home without a coffin of dirty from the back yard.

Also I think the geographically limited bit is because vampires are supernatural enemy #1, to expand their vampires have to make it from place to place despite numerous dangers and then secure a base of power while their main backer is a elsewhere. Sure they could probably do it in small number and by laying low, but then we don't get write ups about them because is there a need for the writers to tell us all of the hidden and convulted ways in which an alien mind may decide to prepare a back door to our world once more? Or can we just assume that the vampire intelligence has some back up plan and followers to establish a power base for it to return in time? Also why have a base way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood?

Well, VIs are establishing bases "way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood" whenever they make a new master vampire. Standard operating procedue for them involves trying to make bases of power where they aren't, so that eventually they can be there.

I also think that they like to have emergency bolt holes.
After all, they need a certain number of vampires on a world before they can enter into it... so if you have that many vampires on a number of worlds, even if something dangerous (by its standards... gods of light, a flight or five of angels, that sort of thing) shows up you can always spilt for safer pastures.

I completely agree with that statement.

Vampire Intelligences didn't become the threat that they are by being idiots.

dreicunan wrote:

eliakon wrote:

dreicunan wrote:

Nightmartree wrote:

dreicunan wrote:Also I think the geographically limited bit is because vampires are supernatural enemy #1, to expand their vampires have to make it from place to place despite numerous dangers and then secure a base of power while their main backer is a elsewhere. Sure they could probably do it in small number and by laying low, but then we don't get write ups about them because is there a need for the writers to tell us all of the hidden and convulted ways in which an alien mind may decide to prepare a back door to our world once more? Or can we just assume that the vampire intelligence has some back up plan and followers to establish a power base for it to return in time? Also why have a base way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood?

Well, VIs are establishing bases "way over there where they can't enjoy the benefits of slaves and blood" whenever they make a new master vampire. Standard operating procedue for them involves trying to make bases of power where they aren't, so that eventually they can be there.

I also think that they like to have emergency bolt holes.
After all, they need a certain number of vampires on a world before they can enter into it... so if you have that many vampires on a number of worlds, even if something dangerous (by its standards... gods of light, a flight or five of angels, that sort of thing) shows up you can always spilt for safer pastures.

I completely agree with that statement.

Vampire Intelligences didn't become the threat that they are by being idiots.

Ya bolt holes for sure, but not on planet (at least not one they are on). For one they have to move resources across whatever is between A & B, and if I remember right supernatural intelligences can't have their main bodies on the same plane as essences, so no shipping pieces of themselves off somewhere to make more vampires, they have to expand like another other being once they're actual on world (I figure the merged piece with a master vampire becomes something else...since they can still have masters on the same world as them despite this rule). So it becomes a matter of what blood/slaves can they acquire around them till they meet something bad enough to keep them at bay.

So actually it would be safer for a VI to secretly infect several places before descending onto a world, then they would have that colony across the continent, and the ones on other continents too before he descends to the biggest to take over. But you wait too long you could get detected and have people move to interfere with your descent or be waiting with the holy equivalent of Nukes and Vorpal Death Bunnies. And once you descend it becomes hard to pop out vampires on a global scale and reinforce/use your other bases, though the home base becomes much stronger

...at least that's how I remember it from my time as an alien existence bent of devouring worlds

Nightmartree wrote:Ya bolt holes for sure, but not on planet (at least not one they are on). For one they have to move resources across whatever is between A & B, and if I remember right supernatural intelligences can't have their main bodies on the same plane as essences, so no shipping pieces of themselves off somewhere to make more vampires, they have to expand like another other being once they're actual on world (I figure the merged piece with a master vampire becomes something else...since they can still have masters on the same world as them despite this rule).

Vampire Intelligences are an explicit exception to the rule for being unable to split essences on the same plane, per Conversion Book 207 / Dark Conversions 188:

2. The creature can never possess somebody in the same dimension in which its physical body exists, except for vampire intelligences"

Axelmania wrote:

Nightmartree wrote:Ya bolt holes for sure, but not on planet (at least not one they are on). For one they have to move resources across whatever is between A & B, and if I remember right supernatural intelligences can't have their main bodies on the same plane as essences, so no shipping pieces of themselves off somewhere to make more vampires, they have to expand like another other being once they're actual on world (I figure the merged piece with a master vampire becomes something else...since they can still have masters on the same world as them despite this rule).

Vampire Intelligences are an explicit exception to the rule for being unable to split essences on the same plane, per Conversion Book 207 / Dark Conversions 188:

2. The creature can never possess somebody in the same dimension in which its physical body exists, except for vampire intelligences"

i'm guessing that's in the reprinted conversion book? I really need to scrounge up enough to update my books

Nightmartree wrote:

Axelmania wrote:

Nightmartree wrote:Ya bolt holes for sure, but not on planet (at least not one they are on). For one they have to move resources across whatever is between A & B, and if I remember right supernatural intelligences can't have their main bodies on the same plane as essences, so no shipping pieces of themselves off somewhere to make more vampires, they have to expand like another other being once they're actual on world (I figure the merged piece with a master vampire becomes something else...since they can still have masters on the same world as them despite this rule).

Vampire Intelligences are an explicit exception to the rule for being unable to split essences on the same plane, per Conversion Book 207 / Dark Conversions 188:

2. The creature can never possess somebody in the same dimension in which its physical body exists, except for vampire intelligences"

i'm guessing that's in the reprinted conversion book? I really need to scrounge up enough to update my books

Pretty sure that rule has always been there for alien intelligences.

The Beast wrote:Pretty sure that rule has always been there for alien intelligences.

I didn't think so but I could just be forgetting, actually rereading the conversion book I have with me they don't even mention alien intelligences being unable to exist on plane with their essences (though i'm sure I've read that somewhere in another book, and seen it on here).

Nightmartree wrote:

The Beast wrote:Pretty sure that rule has always been there for alien intelligences.

I didn't think so but I could just be forgetting, actually rereading the conversion book I have with me they don't even mention alien intelligences being unable to exist on plane with their essences (though i'm sure I've read that somewhere in another book, and seen it on here).

In the original CB the rule is the second entry under the Conditions and Restrictions for Possession section on page 207.

Thus "per Conversion Book 207 / Dark Conversions 188"

Revised doesn't have the AI notes anymore, they were exported to DC to make room for other stuff.