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I've been wondering about Seeron and other planets in the Tarlok empire. Of the various alien intelligences in the Rifts series, which ones might cause the hardest problems for them? Kreeghor are rather similar and they went from being Splugorth Slaves to being manipulated by the Dweller, while CCW is being prodded by Dyval, while I have no idea who's pulling the UWW strings aside from Asgardians.

Could a Vampire Intelligence be the same kind of thorn in the side of the Tarlok in running their slave worlds as they are for the Nightlords?

Would superheros trying to overthrow the Tarlok possibly work with Vampires the way some Nightbane do (ie the Nocturnes)?

Would there be Guardian-esque good guys who are utterly intolerant of vampires and very able to combat them?

I'm not entirely sure what collection of super powers can harm vamps aside from wood/water manipulation since it's not like magic / magic weapons where everything hurts them.

Nxla portals and Soul Harvester cults also seem like they could be a problem. I don't know if the Tarlok has the resources needed to figure out who are secret harvesters. Witches for various AI seem like they would be tempting as cults to the desperate wanting to survive in the Tarlok slave worlds.

Unlike the Splugorth and Kreeghor who both have many magical resources, the Tarlok don't seem to have this. Magic is sparse on Seeron and it seems like it would be a major changing force if it ever made its way there en measse through dark means.

I avoid the issue altogether by making the Seeron system(and the local group of stars) one without a high enough ambient magical field to allow for much, if any, magical activity. To create magical spells or powers of significance, would require catastrophe or mass sacrificial PPE pooling....and the forces that be on Seeron in general would tend to regard such circumstances as unfavorable. The alternatives, high technology or genetic engineering, are so much more attractive and viable, with proven returns.

As such, I figure the only real exposure the Tarlok have had with magic might be their periodic visits to Phaseworld, where it would be seen as another exotic alien power amongst many, bur one not easily bought or duplicated, so why bother?

The same lack of magic makes Seeron unattractive to magical beings, even if they're aware of it, and those that get one-way Rifted to the Seeron system tend to be miserable and short-lived without the means to easily fuel their supernatural physiologies and powers.

Axelmania wrote:Unlike the Splugorth and Kreeghor who both have many magical resources, the Tarlok don't seem to have this. Magic is sparse on Seeron and it seems like it would be a major changing force if it ever made its way there en measse through dark means.

As taalism pointed out, the Tarlok's distinct lack of magic resources and its aparent sparseness on Seeron seems like a pretty good indicator of a low ambient PPE setting, where conditions would be quite unattractive to most supernatural entities bent of conquest, domination and such.

However, this same enviroment might be more tolerable to lesser predators like Dar'ota, Dybbuks and similar beignswho much prefer to obtain their energy through slaughter anyway, while having considerably less magical competition/opposition. The same possibly applies to some (though not all) of the critters one may find in Beyond the Supernatural and from that angle vampires do sound like more of a distinct possiblity, i guess.

(Also Mindolars, who while not predatory per se, are distinctly not magical and couldn't care less about ambient P.P.E. as long as they have people to psychically control, manipulate and toy with)

That said, i imagine a Vampire Intelligence per se would not be quite as desirous of coming to its minions side yet and might cook up weird plots relating to altering the ambient levels of magic beforehand. Rats have 2D4 P.P.E., are possibly even more numerous than humans and a pest most people, if they even noticed, would be happy to see disappear en masse. Hmmm, sounds like a plan.

Speaking of powers x vampires, could not light manipulation be a problem? Also, anyone with super-strength can carry some very hefty water guns/cannons.

I recall the planet Seeron itself was explicitly low-magic but I don't remember it saying that about the entire system. Why bother singling out a planet if it was the whole system?

Axelmania wrote:I recall the planet Seeron itself was explicitly low-magic but I don't remember it saying that about the entire system. Why bother singling out a planet if it was the whole system?

depends on one's definition of low vs high. There's a wide range between, let's say Palladium or similar worlds/dimensions covered by the same mechanics, and Phaseworld, Wormwood or Rifts Earth.

Besides, Seeron is called out because it's the place the action/conflict is mostly centered upon, no? Potentials can exist and remain untappped depending on circunstances, i guess...

I would like to point out that
BTS1 Earth is "low magic" and yet its magic levels function at the same as PF.
Robotech is a pretty "low magic" setting, and yet has MD spells
Splicers is very low magic... and yet magic still works even there.

The Skraypers system is on the lower side of magic... compared to say Rifts. But otherwise there is no textual support for the idea that it has an actual "low magic" level.
Just that none of the local races have developed magic etc.

eliakon wrote:I would like to point out that
BTS1 Earth is "low magic" and yet its magic levels function at the same as PF.

never really compared, but mostly my impression too, difference being mostly in the accessbility of magical knowledge and (maybe) availability of external PPE sources like ley lines, nexi and etc.

eliakon wrote:Robotech is a pretty "low magic" setting, and yet has MD spells
Splicers is very low magic... and yet magic still works even there.

Spells even appearing in Robotech is news to me, really. Splicers i don't really know enough to comment upon.

eliakon wrote:The Skraypers system is on the lower side of magic... compared to say Rifts. But otherwise there is no textual support for the idea that it has an actual "low magic" level.
Just that none of the local races have developed magic etc.

I would say that, there's no clear evidence supporting or denying a "low magic" level for Seeron beside the absence of any such material.

Axelmania wrote:I recall the planet Seeron itself was explicitly low-magic but I don't remember it saying that about the entire system. Why bother singling out a planet if it was the whole system?

Got a page number? I checked the bit on magic, and nothing said that Seeron was low magic. It provides SDC and MDC stats for most gear and races because it's meant to be compatible with using stuff there in a Heros Unlimited setting, but all it says about magic is that the Tarlock generally lack the temperment to make good mages and only a handful are likely to learn it. It talks a lot more about converting other SDC powers not listed in the book to MDC, which indicates that Seeron is the same level of magic as the rest of three galaxies, MDC level.

SolCannibal wrote:

eliakon wrote:The Skraypers system is on the lower side of magic... compared to say Rifts. But otherwise there is no textual support for the idea that it has an actual "low magic" level.
Just that none of the local races have developed magic etc.

I would say that, there's no clear evidence supporting or denying a "low magic" level for Seeron beside the absence of any such material.

Exactly!

Its 'lower' in that there is no organic magic culture.
There are no wide spread guilds, no magical churches, no visible ley-lines, no random rifts all over the place, no publicly identified magical supers, et multiple cetera.
Basically it is presented as being very much like 20th century earth ala BTS.

As for the energy level itself... that is basically left to the discretion of the GM. They can set the actual amount of PPE and all that good stuff themselves...
Which is good. If they want magic to not be a factor they can make the area low magic and roll on. If they DO want magic...then they can turn the dial up to the level that they desire for their game and then game on.

eliakon wrote:

SolCannibal wrote:

eliakon wrote:The Skraypers system is on the lower side of magic... compared to say Rifts. But otherwise there is no textual support for the idea that it has an actual "low magic" level.
Just that none of the local races have developed magic etc.

I would say that, there's no clear evidence supporting or denying a "low magic" level for Seeron beside the absence of any such material.

Exactly!

Its 'lower' in that there is no organic magic culture.
There are no wide spread guilds, no magical churches, no visible ley-lines, no random rifts all over the place, no publicly identified magical supers, et multiple cetera.
Basically it is presented as being very much like 20th century earth ala BTS.

As for the energy level itself... that is basically left to the discretion of the GM. They can set the actual amount of PPE and all that good stuff themselves...
Which is good. If they want magic to not be a factor they can make the area low magic and roll on. If they DO want magic...then they can turn the dial up to the level that they desire for their game and then game on.

True, keeping the presence of the esoteric and supernatural somewhere between BtS and Nightbane should go fine with what impressions we get from the fluff overall, i guess.

eliakon wrote:there is no textual support for the idea that it has an actual "low magic" level

Page 74 "The ley line/magic energy of Seeron has been at a low ebb - barely detectable levels - for thousands of years, but that was not always the case.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Axelmania wrote:I recall the planet Seeron itself was explicitly low-magic but I don't remember it saying that about the entire system. Why bother singling out a planet if it was the whole system?

Got a page number? I checked the bit on magic, and nothing said that Seeron was low magic. It provides SDC and MDC stats for most gear and races because it's meant to be compatible with using stuff there in a Heros Unlimited setting, but all it says about magic is that the Tarlock generally lack the temperment to make good mages and only a handful are likely to learn it. It talks a lot more about converting other SDC powers not listed in the book to MDC, which indicates that Seeron is the same level of magic as the rest of three galaxies, MDC level.

Page 75 says "The negligible amount of mystic energy on Seern (and throughout the Charizolon System) is why magic has never been practiced."

It goes on with "unable to draw upon ley line PPE anywhere on the planet" (unclear if it's that restrictive elsewhere in Charizolon System) except for times of planetary alignment.

eliakon wrote:As for the energy level itself... that is basically left to the discretion of the GM. They can set the actual amount of PPE and all that good stuff themselves...

Only if they want to conflict with 1D6x100 for 1D6 min during plantary alignment, 0 PPE at all other times, as pg 75 is pretty clear about.

Ley lines still exist, so you can use them where they're required for making portals. Planetary alignment aside you have to rely on your own PPE and costs to portal out are tripled.

I'm curious how that would work in regard to magic scrolls. If you wanted to prep a Scroll of Dimensional Portal to use to exit Seeron, would it make sense to charge triple the usual PPE for that scroll for it to be able to work?

Funny to see this topic come back to action after the months of hiatus.
Good call Axel, have to check those page references myself one of those days, though Skaypers is low in my priority list for games.

Planning on making use of the setting for you own games or just musing on stuff as a distraction/exercise?

Axelmania wrote:

eliakon wrote:there is no textual support for the idea that it has an actual "low magic" level

Page 74 "The ley line/magic energy of Seeron has been at a low ebb - barely detectable levels - for thousands of years, but that was not always the case.

Okay, so we have 'barely detectable'.
So, that is something, though it is not defined.

Axelmania wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Axelmania wrote:I recall the planet Seeron itself was explicitly low-magic but I don't remember it saying that about the entire system. Why bother singling out a planet if it was the whole system?

Got a page number? I checked the bit on magic, and nothing said that Seeron was low magic. It provides SDC and MDC stats for most gear and races because it's meant to be compatible with using stuff there in a Heros Unlimited setting, but all it says about magic is that the Tarlock generally lack the temperment to make good mages and only a handful are likely to learn it. It talks a lot more about converting other SDC powers not listed in the book to MDC, which indicates that Seeron is the same level of magic as the rest of three galaxies, MDC level.

Page 75 says "The negligible amount of mystic energy on Seern (and throughout the Charizolon System) is why magic has never been practiced."

It goes on with "unable to draw upon ley line PPE anywhere on the planet" (unclear if it's that restrictive elsewhere in Charizolon System) except for times of planetary alignment.

The inabilatity to draw upon ley lines is something. But that doesn't mean that the magic is weaker. just that there is less ambient sources of spare PPE.

Axelmania wrote:

eliakon wrote:As for the energy level itself... that is basically left to the discretion of the GM. They can set the actual amount of PPE and all that good stuff themselves...

Only if they want to conflict with 1D6x100 for 1D6 min during plantary alignment, 0 PPE at all other times, as pg 75 is pretty clear about.

Not at all.
The power level of the setting is still totally undefined. All we have here is how much energy is in the ley lines. Which, I will admit is set unlike I thought.
But it doesn't tell us anything else about the energy levels in any way, shape or form.

Axelmania wrote:Ley lines still exist, so you can use them where they're required for making portals. Planetary alignment aside you have to rely on your own PPE and costs to portal out are tripled.

I'm curious how that would work in regard to magic scrolls. If you wanted to prep a Scroll of Dimensional Portal to use to exit Seeron, would it make sense to charge triple the usual PPE for that scroll for it to be able to work?

A scroll would fail.
It would try to activate, not have sufficent PPE to work, and the portal would fail.
At least that is how I would interpret it.

Well, i must say that, while more firmly establishing mechanically the star system's "low magic scenario" setting, it doesn't change much in relation to the comments & suggestions in my first post.

Overall, using Beyond the Supernatural, maybe Nightbane if one is up to bringing some invasion/armageddon unlimited style plot into play - or the sections on to these settings in the Conversion Book &/or Dark Conversions, for those without either series of books - as references for supernatural predators, critters and other weirdness should work pretty fine.

Monsters with more of a taste for blood, suffering or flesh in their PPE harvesting - like vampires, Dar'Ota, ghouls or Dibbuk, for examples - might even prefer worlds as these, with less supernatural competitors or occult troubleshooters to get in the way of their poaching, for hunting grounds with easy access to mostly defenseless and unprepared prey.

Oh, it just crossed my mind - and considering it was just a stray thought with no book reference to back it up, i might be utterly wrong - that the Blood Druids, with many of the capacities of other druid O.C.C.s and a particular proclivity for sacrificing sapient lifeforms - might have something of an edge in such a particular envoriment given some time and prepation to set up gardens/temples or whatnot.