Forums of the Megaverse®

Exactly what is in the title - are there magic item-making rules in the PF main book or should i look out for them in other places? Saw something about high-level alchemists, but no details.

Magic stuff in general, not Rune Weapons per se, but specifics on "minor" magic stuff such as magic crystals & stones, fabrics and other objects in the sample "magic itens list" of the book.

Well, as far as Palladium Fantasy, I don't know of any. Most magic items are covered in the alchemist secions of various books and only the finished products are described. The closest is having the Alchemist custom make an item for you, but there are no rules about how the alchemist creates the items.

-Vek
"I guess it's just magic."

Veknironth wrote:Well, as far as Palladium Fantasy, I don't know of any. Most magic items are covered in the alchemist secions of various books and only the finished products are described. The closest is having the Alchemist custom make an item for you, but there are no rules about how the alchemist creates the items.

-Vek
"I guess it's just magic."

Basically, "alchemists can do it", leave it at that and whatever, then?
Well, so be it, houseruling time.

Palladium never provides details.

Mark Hall wrote:Palladium never provides details.

So, it's either "alchemist can do it" or "high level (10th+) spellcaster may do it" if the GM if the kind not into "because NPC only" shenanigans.
Well, a bit problematic if you are a player instead of GM, but kind of acceptable.

SolCannibal wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Palladium never provides details.

So, it's either "alchemist can do it" or "high level (10th+) spellcaster may do it" if the GM if the kind not into "because NPC only" shenanigans.
Well, a bit problematic if you are a player instead of GM, but kind of acceptable.

Pretty much. There are some oddball options (check out Sculpt and Animate Clay Animals for some shenanigans around making semi-golems), and you can draw some things from other games (Russian nature magic has a few spells that create magical items, of a sort, IIRC), but Palladium, in general, doesn't do a lot of crafting in the hands of PCs, especially in the last 20 years.

SolCannibal wrote:Exactly what is in the title - are there magic item-making rules in the PF main book or should i look out for them in other places? Saw something about high-level alchemists, but no details.

Magic stuff in general, not Rune Weapons per se, but specifics on "minor" magic stuff such as magic crystals & stones, fabrics and other objects in the sample "magic itens list" of the book.

Most of those items are alchemic magic items, and therfore require an alchemist to make.
There is no write up for an alchemist as it is one of those "npc only" classes.

Thus as a GM you basically have free reign to do as thou wilt.

Well, there is a bit on what it takes to BE an alchemist, but nothing on how they make items. There is also some information on materials needed for things, but not how much or what else is required.

-Vek
"Letting PC's make their own magic items sounds like trouble."

Veknironth wrote:Well, there is a bit on what it takes to BE an alchemist, but nothing on how they make items. There is also some information on materials needed for things, but not how much or what else is required.

It ends up feeling a little weird, because they make up requirements and such, like you might have rules or at least guidelines, no such rhyme or reason comes up, like why the particular levels described, if item creation could not be a group effort, etc. In fact it's pretty much handwaved to focus in the Alchemist as the "item broker class per excellence" and how dare the players even think that they might get fair prices for obtained itens on their own through their skills, streetwise, contacts and such, what makes it twice as grating to me...don't complicate with arbitrary things what you are just stonewalling anyway.

Veknironth wrote:-Vek
"Letting PC's make their own magic items sounds like trouble."

Well, same might be said of having their own magic items on itself for some GMs. It's mostly a matter of attitude, as things like access to materials needed, time required in their construction and other details are still dependent on the GM for definition overall.

SolCannibal wrote:Exactly what is in the title - are there magic item-making rules in the PF main book or should i look out for them in other places? Saw something about high-level alchemists, but no details.

Magic stuff in general, not Rune Weapons per se, but specifics on "minor" magic stuff such as magic crystals & stones, fabrics and other objects in the sample "magic itens list" of the book.

None per say AFAIK, the best you'll likely do is "finished product" or "features that can be added" or specfic spell/rituals that yeild up a magic item (ex. Talisman, Amulet, etc).

Megaversally speaking...:
-Rifts Techno-Wizard (UE has rules/guildelines), might be adaptable
-Rifts Eco-Wizardry (Dinosaur Swamp), pretty much in the shape of PF alchemist
-Nightbane has rules for custom spells/rituals (Through the Glass Darkly SB IINM, not completely sure on which book)
-Heros Unlimited Magic Weapon/Object Category might also work for "creation", but its more "pick and choose" etc. (and IIRC might be considered Rune Weapon/Object)
-Necromancers (at least in Rifts) have a host of items they can create from their spell list, I am not sure how the Rifts vs PF (spell list/OCC/etc) stack up against each other
-Psionic Crystal "technology" in PF Island @ the Edge of the World is considered a form of magic, it might help it might not as it is highly specialized

Though if you are looking for creating new ones and don't want to get new books. You simply modify existing items and/or combine Invocation Magic with Wards (definatly include permancy). Though you might have to make some judgement calls on some combinations (ex Talisman Spell/Ritual w/its sub-spells with the Permancy Ward).

Veknironth wrote:but there are no rules about how the alchemist creates the items.

And conflicting statements about time for some (PF2E Armor features say time frame also applies to weapons, but weapons has its own longer period).

ShadowLogan wrote:Megaversally speaking...:
-Rifts Techno-Wizard (UE has rules/guildelines), might be adaptable
-Rifts Eco-Wizardry (Dinosaur Swamp), pretty much in the shape of PF alchemist
-Nightbane has rules for custom spells/rituals (Through the Glass Darkly SB IINM, not completely sure on which book)
-Heros Unlimited Magic Weapon/Object Category might also work for "creation", but its more "pick and choose" etc. (and IIRC might be considered Rune Weapon/Object)
-Necromancers (at least in Rifts) have a host of items they can create from their spell list, I am not sure how the Rifts vs PF (spell list/OCC/etc) stack up against each other
-Psionic Crystal "technology" in PF Island @ the Edge of the World is considered a form of magic, it might help it might not as it is highly specialized

That list is of possible sources much appreciated - the Psionic Crystals in particular might be right up my alley, as what got me thinking on the subject was specifically the Divination Ball capabilties being represented by the psionic power of clairvoyance and my mind going from that to variant crystal balls with other psionic powers, among other stuff.

I include crystal magic items in almost all of my campaigns. I love IATEOTW.

Mark Hall wrote:Palladium never provides details.

Thought the old books had the alchemists section that gave directions for the GM on what weapons were able to have what powers and how many like Island at the edge of the world has for crystal weapons. Now if were talking HOW they're crafted like in order to make a gryphon claw glove you must have x and y components then... nope. I guess that makes those more magic item design rules and not crafting.

I read "how to make magic clothing" and my very sleepy brain went, "Well what you're gonna want to do first is enchant a flock of sheep." After i was done laughing at my own joke I remembered a collection of Tailor Magic spells that can be found scattered throughout here. Barring that my only thought is to go all technowizard on it by enchanting the raw goods AND manufacturing equipment (The enchanted loom/forge produces cloth/weapons with magical abilities from enchanted fibers/ores.).

Zer0 Kay wrote:

Mark Hall wrote:Palladium never provides details.

Thought the old books had the alchemists section that gave directions for the GM on what weapons were able to have what powers and how many like Island at the edge of the world has for crystal weapons. Now if were talking HOW they're crafted like in order to make a gryphon claw glove you must have x and y components then... nope. I guess that makes those more magic item design rules and not crafting.

Truth be told, design on itself would be helpful, if it touched on the matter of character capacity too.

As an aside, i do admit the book does offer a decent variety of item types and such for one to riffle through and make up one's variants.

Palladium does provide some guidelines as to which types of enchantments are rare, as well as the general limitation that alchemist-created weapons can have no more than three enchantments.

Necromancers can craft a Bone Scepter and a Bone Staff, both of which are pretty good melee weapons with some useful enchantments (especially the scepter). See the Bizantium book for details.

Wizards, Mystics, and Priests can create Talismans, scrolls, and Amulets.

Blacksmiths can create weapons, and it stands to reason that they could create them out of implicitly enchanted materials. If the blacksmith is a Kiridin barbarian, Jotan, Kobold, or Dwarf, they can make items with bonuses.

Any temporary weapon enchantment could be made permanent with a Diabolist's permanence ward.

Hotrod wrote:Blacksmiths can create weapons, and it stands to reason that they could create them out of implicitly enchanted materials. If the blacksmith is a Kiridin barbarian, Jotan, Kobold, or Dwarf, they can make items with bonuses.

What counts as "implicitly enchanted materials" being possibly dependent on context or details on a case-by-case basis.

I don’t think anyone mentioned it, but the Mystic Kuznya OCC (sp?) from Mystic Russia (Rifts WB 18) covers some magic item creation from a blacksmithing standpoint. I’ve used those rules and a variant of the class itself in PF.

Knowing Telepath wrote:I don’t think anyone mentioned it, but the Mystic Kuznya OCC (sp?) from Mystic Russia (Rifts WB 18) covers some magic item creation from a blacksmithing standpoint. I’ve used those rules and a variant of the class itself in PF.

Oh yeah, the Mystic Kuznya are a popular option when it comes to magic item creation in Rifts games, good call.

I have my own rules where you make an item you have to get the ingredients to make it. Say a sword
The better quality/magical the ingredients the better (give bonuses to the rolls if easily enchanted, negatives if hard to enchant).
Forge the sword (easier to enchant newly made items)
decide what powers are wanted, decide what ingredients/spells are needed for those powers.
Check the good and bad effects
make the binding skill roll(s) for each power. Each ingredient has good and bad effects. You want to filter out the bad effect and unwanted good effects (takes up power slots)
Make the sealing roll, if not sealed properly it effects the lvl of effect.
My skill rolls are based on how much you make the roll by, and each enchantment on an item gives -%'s to the rolls.

If you do use this the net book of random magical effects is a handy item to have.

Knowing Telepath wrote:I don’t think anyone mentioned it, but the Mystic Kuznya OCC (sp?) from Mystic Russia (Rifts WB 18) covers some magic item creation from a blacksmithing standpoint. I’ve used those rules and a variant of the class itself in PF.

I generally prefer the Scathach of Rifts England, myself, but the Kuznya is pretty good too. Both can fit in the context of Palladium Fantasy fairly well (though the Scathach seems to fit a bit better to me). Of course, if we're opening ourselves up to Rifts, there's the Rune Smith from Pantheons of the Megaverse, but making new rune weapons in Palladium Fantasy is something of a thematic no-no.

Hotrod wrote:

Knowing Telepath wrote:I don’t think anyone mentioned it, but the Mystic Kuznya OCC (sp?) from Mystic Russia (Rifts WB 18) covers some magic item creation from a blacksmithing standpoint. I’ve used those rules and a variant of the class itself in PF.

I generally prefer the Scathach of Rifts England, myself, but the Kuznya is pretty good too. Both can fit in the context of Palladium Fantasy fairly well (though the Scathach seems to fit a bit better to me). Of course, if we're opening ourselves up to Rifts, there's the Rune Smith from Pantheons of the Megaverse, but making new rune weapons in Palladium Fantasy is something of a thematic no-no.

Well, while the question was inspired by reading parts of the Palladium Fantasy, not exactly i will apply what i end up brewing to that world in particular. Maybe, maybe not, depends on what ideas come up along the way, i guess.