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I was just lookin at the scathach druid.they make alot of metal items,but dont have any kind of smithing/metal working skill.I thought it must have just been missed out on the OCC skills,so looked for it in RUE.still cant find it.Is it in a different book,has it been missed out of the system entirely,or is metal working hidden under a different skill?

iteration27 wrote:I was just lookin at the scathach druid.they make alot of metal items,but dont have any kind of smithing/metal working skill.I thought it must have just been missed out on the OCC skills,so looked for it in RUE.still cant find it.Is it in a different book,has it been missed out of the system entirely,or is metal working hidden under a different skill?

I'd use the AtB Blacksmith/Metalworking, which is 40+5% per level of eperience...though I'd houserule that a Scathach would have the skill at +10% - +15%.

This is better than assuming that Rifts metalworking is covered under Basic Mechanics, which I see as having a more modern technological bent.

Atb.after the bomb? i dont have that.I did read through all the mechanical skills,none of them really cover metal working.I read through the technical skills too.they got carpentry and masonry but no metal working,although mining included a familiarity with refining.
But anyway...what you're sayin is theres no actual metal working skill in Rifts then,argh!

ok well i guess i dont need a skill description...so 40% + whatever bonus,cool.

iteration27 wrote:Atb.after the bomb? i dont have that.I did read through all the mechanical skills,none of them really cover metal working.I read through the technical skills too.they got carpentry and masonry but no metal working,although mining included a familiarity with refining.
But anyway...what you're sayin is theres no actual metal working skill in Rifts then,argh!

Yeah, After the Bomb.
And no, there ain't an equivalent skill m Rifts...not in Mechanical, Wilderness, or Technical.

taalismn wrote:

iteration27 wrote:Atb.after the bomb? i dont have that.I did read through all the mechanical skills,none of them really cover metal working.I read through the technical skills too.they got carpentry and masonry but no metal working,although mining included a familiarity with refining.
But anyway...what you're sayin is theres no actual metal working skill in Rifts then,argh!

Yeah, After the Bomb.
And no, there ain't an equivalent skill m Rifts...not in Mechanical, Wilderness, or Technical.

Wait, it gets better. There is no smithing skill in the fantasy setting either. The closest you can get is the Field Armorer skill, but the description states you'd be at assistant level. So you can repair armor and weapons, but not make them apparently.

The Beast wrote:

taalismn wrote:

iteration27 wrote:Atb.after the bomb? i dont have that.I did read through all the mechanical skills,none of them really cover metal working.I read through the technical skills too.they got carpentry and masonry but no metal working,although mining included a familiarity with refining.
But anyway...what you're sayin is theres no actual metal working skill in Rifts then,argh!

Yeah, After the Bomb.
And no, there ain't an equivalent skill m Rifts...not in Mechanical, Wilderness, or Technical.

Wait, it gets better. There is no smithing skill in the fantasy setting either. The closest you can get is the Field Armorer skill, but the description states you'd be at assistant level. So you can repair armor and weapons, but not make them apparently.

Not exactly.
The skill is found on page 168 of Northern Hinterlands in the Blacksmith Optional O.C.C.
Which incidentally includes game rules/mechanics on how to add plusses to items and the like.
.
.
.
Which of course still leaves it as only existing as a class skill in Fantasy.

ive actually come across the skill in mystic russia,under the mystic kuznya,this morning.But its under the class abilities and at a higher percentage of 60%.whats the percentage in northern hinterlands? i'm assuming the kuznyas skill is enhanced mystically,so if the hinterlands skill is the same as after the bomb i can assume a normal level base percentage for the skill and then add it in under technical skills,like carpentry and masonry, and assign it a higher bonus percentage for classes that should have it as an OCC skill.which so far would include the scathach druid and techno smithy from 3G(which has a phantom metallurgy skill which i'm assuming would basically be smithing)

probably just call the skill metal working.

edit: nice job eliakon,found the blacksmith,the skill percentage IS the same as after the bomb,so i can just drop the skill as is,straight into rifts and it is already called metal working,so bonus.infact all the artisan classes,with a little rifts tweakin,should slot in nice and lovely too.also nice job taalismn for the AtB mention,eliakons mention was just more useful to me as i have northern hinterlands and not AtB.

im reading the techno-smithy now and im gettin the ol rifts head throb lol so under the talisman smith,their ability is less powerful than the spell as far as i can tell.they can only instill lvl 6 spells(the spell lets you do lvl 8 ),but the skill description says they are not limited to those in the spell.which is what confuses me.unless its talking about the limit on illusion magic not being able to be instilled,which would actually make sense.But also i had to check PFRPG for the talisman spell as its been left out of my copy of RUE(im so very surprised by this lol).It also burns out when its charge has been used,unless its made renewable.does this mean it cant be recharged like a spell made talisma.also can they make PPE battery talismans like the spell.it doesnt say they can,but i gotta ask.

Under forge magic weapons and armour,it seems they can only forge magic weapons and only non magical armour.i guess this makes sense as theres no similar in game mechanism for magic armour(no enchant armour:minor) so the so the magic weapons and armour focus description is misleading.unless im missing something.also,the magic instilled basically makes the weapons into talismans.they work the same way,but more powerful than the spell as they dont need to be recharged,and have the same spell level cap as the spell.which actually makes them better talismans than the talisman smithy can make.that kinda makes the talisman smith redundant.although i guess not everyone wants their spells in a sword.

and their third focus seems to be just a less capable techno-wizard.

ive lost the thread of my thoughts by this point and cant remember at all what my point is lol so im just gonna leave it as a complaint about the overall class.

edit:ok i HAVE found the talisman spell in the book of magic,so it IS around and ive just read enchant weapon.which leads me to complain even more about the weapons and armour focus being based around a spell that permanently destroys your PPE base.and the time and effort to make them aswell,its impractical for a class that is supposed to arm and equip UWW forces.ok,they dont have to make permanent weapons,but then its a whole lot of time and effort for what they end up with and even more impractical for what their role is.You'd need thousands of these guy working constantly to keep forces equipped.did i say thousands? millions.considering the scale of forces in the 3Gs.i dont think these guys should have to sacrifice PPE for the permanent weapons,it just doesnt make sense to me.ok i think im done complaining.

There is the Dwarf and Kobald Races in CB1r and/or PF2E that does include a Metal Working Skill for the races in question as a "everyone in the race knows" type of skill.

great,thats another source,thanks

The Beast wrote:

taalismn wrote:

iteration27 wrote:Atb.after the bomb? i dont have that.I did read through all the mechanical skills,none of them really cover metal working.I read through the technical skills too.they got carpentry and masonry but no metal working,although mining included a familiarity with refining.
But anyway...what you're sayin is theres no actual metal working skill in Rifts then,argh!

Yeah, After the Bomb.
And no, there ain't an equivalent skill m Rifts...not in Mechanical, Wilderness, or Technical.

Wait, it gets better. There is no smithing skill in the fantasy setting either. The closest you can get is the Field Armorer skill, but the description states you'd be at assistant level. So you can repair armor and weapons, but not make them apparently.

Well, actually, in Rifter 24, under the Q&A section (starting page 18) they do a mini-update to the Yin-Sloth Jungles to bring it up to Palladium RPG Second Edition (starting page 19).
Included is a rather large list of skills, including Blacksmithing/Metalworking.

Given that this is an official Q&A it is my understanding that this is official, or canon, material.

so multiple palladium sources...i guess its just never been considered as an important skill for rifts earth,even though there are ALOT of low tech communities that would really on the skills of the humble smith.

Honestly some times I think there is a need to compile a list of all PB(from all games) skills with % and citing the sources of them. It would be useful for charter creation but have to go to the source book for details. This would help people know what skills are where and make it easy to find information on a skill when needed.

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly some times I think there is a need to compile a list of all PB(from all games) skills with % and citing the sources of them. It would be useful for charter creation but have to go to the source book for details. This would help people know what skills are where and make it easy to find information on a skill when needed.

We've done something like this for ages for a few reasons:
-1. to bring all the skills into one place to speed up character creation so we don't have to flip through various books (this was before GMG/RUE did this job)
-2. to allow more diversity in skills for a given setting

i'd also like a rifts construction manual,detailing clear rules for all things that can be built.vehicles,robots,weapons,armour,building/fortifications,items etc technological and magical,with all the skills necessary,the rolls needed,the costs and time involved.with all the inconsistencies and ambiguities ironed out and expansion on areas that are vague.because i see alot of players with alot of design and construction orientated characters and a love of invention.

a man can dream.

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly some times I think there is a need to compile a list of all PB(from all games) skills with % and citing the sources of them. It would be useful for charter creation but have to go to the source book for details. This would help people know what skills are where and make it easy to find information on a skill when needed.

Rifter 0.1, but it doesn't go into details and is by now slightly out of date.

iteration27 wrote:i'd also like a rifts construction manual,detailing clear rules for all things that can be built.vehicles,robots,weapons,armour,building/fortifications,items etc technological and magical,with all the skills necessary,the rolls needed,the costs and time involved.with all the inconsistencies and ambiguities ironed out and expansion on areas that are vague.because i see alot of players with alot of design and construction orientated characters and a love of invention.

a man can dream.

I have a set of house rules for that. It is quite extensive. It required several calls on how to balance things like shots per e-clip and cost. I am in the process of typing up my notes, and editing it. (My spelling is horrible.) When done and I feel it is ready I am planing on posting them on line.(my currant deployment has slowed work down as I do not have most my note books and binders.) When I do I will post a link to where they are. Who knows it might inspire people to make there own house rules or some one to create a better set of rules.
I have run builder campaigns with TW and operators, they can be quite fun.

One of the issues I ran into is things based of real world tech that is missing from rifts. Such as the anti missile system that uses shaped charges to destroy incoming missiles. (I house rule adding them to tanks.)

One of the thing I did that I like is by standardizing weapon damage and adding the ability to add optional features weapons are not always about making the most damage but adding cool things. Like a laser pulse rifle with a rail system to allow customizing it, or a camera/handle system to allow shooting around corners.

The biggest issue is justification of why these feature are not already on the market. Its greatest strength is if every thing is built with it you stop power creep.(it is possible to converting existing equipment to it, but would require a book several times bigger than the GMG)

taalismn wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:Honestly some times I think there is a need to compile a list of all PB(from all games) skills with % and citing the sources of them. It would be useful for charter creation but have to go to the source book for details. This would help people know what skills are where and make it easy to find information on a skill when needed.

Rifter 0.1, but it doesn't go into details and is by now slightly out of date.

It would have to be a living document updated with every book, and some shadow updates.

i like the sound of that,i'll definitely be waiting for you to post it.im not a big fan of on the fly construction.i prefer having definite rules that everyone can work from,otherwise the various different items that people dream up can end up being really imbalanced.of course its down to the GM to ok builds.but some GMs are kinda lazy and let players get away with murder.
my new Gm doesnt actually like builders/inventors in his game.he allows em,just doesnt like em,as they can get crazy.
My approach in my game is to let people do what they like,have very little prepared material and just release the players into the world and just insert things as they play.so if they wanna set off looking for treasure,or build an army,set up a kingdom or a manufacturing company,its all good.they just have to put in the work.But it would all be much easier to regulate properly with clearly defined rules for all these things players are going to do,and makes less actual work for me as a GM if im not constantly having to work out things like construction rules and checking over player ideas to keep things balanced.

Prior to ATB2 I think I recall that skill being in Transdimensional TMNT as well, and of course PRPG/PF2