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Ok, so I've been spamming the series Overlordand it got me thinking about that seemingly rare creature the 20th level character in Rifts.
I, personally, have never had a campaign last long enough to get a character to 15th level (not that I've ever needed to as I've had plenty of fun just running in the various campaigns) and, let's be honest here, ANY Rifts character is more than capable of taking down just about anything. Anyway I'm just curious, feel free to share your stories!

Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Vincent Takeda wrote:Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Yep, you're right 15 is the level cap. Too much D&D on the brain. Still the principle applies, has anyone ever had a character achieve max level in Rifts?

I don't have a level 15 character, but I DO have a level 12 character that I played for over 8 years including ~3-5 years of at least 3-5 days a week sessions

I ran a group of 5 players from High school in 1990 on and off until 2012. They started at level 1 and even fighting the Four Horsemen, Mechanoids, Tolkeen War they never made level 15. Now one was a hatchling Dragon and he barely made level 10 but the others (a GB, CK, HH) only made level 12 or so.

Most campaigns I start players at level 3 and most of them only make level 6 to 8 before we quit.

keir451 wrote:Ok, so I've been spamming the series Overlordand it got me thinking about that seemingly rare creature the 20th level character in Rifts.
I, personally, have never had a campaign last long enough to get a character to 20th level (not that I've ever needed to as I've had plenty of fun just running in the various campaigns) and, let's be honest here, ANY Rifts character is more than capable of taking down just about anything. Anyway I'm just curious, fell free to share your stories!

In play no, I think the highest PB character we've gotten to is like Level 6-ish.

keir451 wrote:

Vincent Takeda wrote:Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Yep, you're right 15 is the level cap. Too much D&D on the brain. Still the principle applies, has anyone ever had a character achieve max level in Rifts?

Level 15 really is not the limit, there are a few examples that involve levels beyond 15 (Dragon HTH and the Demon-Dragon-mage are examples I can think of), but when you stop to extrapolate out the XP table requirement it probably does become something of a limit. Another way to get around it is going the multi-classing route you can get a character level beyond 15 in total.

ShadowLogan wrote:

keir451 wrote:

Vincent Takeda wrote:Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Yep, you're right 15 is the level cap. Too much D&D on the brain. Still the principle applies, has anyone ever had a character achieve max level in Rifts?

Level 15 really is not the limit, there are a few examples that involve levels beyond 15 (Dragon HTH and the Demon-Dragon-mage are examples I can think of), but when you stop to extrapolate out the XP table requirement it probably does become something of a limit. Another way to get around it is going the multi-classing route you can get a character level beyond 15 in total.

I didn't think about it in those terms. I have had players who were level 10 in the primary OCC and level 6 or so in the secondary so I guess that way they made it past 15 levels even if they never got to level 15.

I've never personally maxed out a character. In fact the only time we played a high level campaign was when we started with high level PC's. And now I forget why we did that.

Technically; two of the players in my campaign who have been with me since like... 2006, 2007 (?) have managed to accrue enough experience to actually reach level 17 (using the ExP progression), but since I do allow for multi-classing they only have about level 11 as the maximum.
Also, one of the character's has died twice (and been successfully resurrected) so each time 'Smiling Jack' reached out to touch them they had to start from ZERO. By all rights, THAT P.C. should be like level 18 or 19 equivalent... but the dyce-bawt plays no favourites and has no mercy

I definitely have at least 2 characters at level 15. Easy to do when you've been runnin them for over a decade. Particularly easier when the characters are indeed doing heroic things. The trick is surviving that long.

keir451 wrote:

Vincent Takeda wrote:Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Yep, you're right 15 is the level cap. Too much D&D on the brain. Still the principle applies, has anyone ever had a character achieve max level in Rifts?

For most mortal races the cap is 15 however a few rare race/class combos can reach level 30. The only one that comes to mind is adult and ancient dragons. They can level up past the typical level cap as an exception to rules.

I have had a charter reach max level a few times. Typically they happen during deployment campaign.

ShadowLogan wrote:

keir451 wrote:Ok, so I've been spamming the series Overlordand it got me thinking about that seemingly rare creature the 20th level character in Rifts.
I, personally, have never had a campaign last long enough to get a character to 20th level (not that I've ever needed to as I've had plenty of fun just running in the various campaigns) and, let's be honest here, ANY Rifts character is more than capable of taking down just about anything. Anyway I'm just curious, fell free to share your stories!

In play no, I think the highest PB character we've gotten to is like Level 6-ish.

keir451 wrote:

Vincent Takeda wrote:Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Yep, you're right 15 is the level cap. Too much D&D on the brain. Still the principle applies, has anyone ever had a character achieve max level in Rifts?

Level 15 really is not the limit, there are a few examples that involve levels beyond 15 (Dragon HTH and the Demon-Dragon-mage are examples I can think of), but when you stop to extrapolate out the XP table requirement it probably does become something of a limit. Another way to get around it is going the multi-classing route you can get a character level beyond 15 in total.

Nice theory but as no other HTH goes beyond level 15 that does indicate you are siting exceptions to the rule. The acceptation being ancient dragons are listed as going up to level 26 as ancient dragons. (see page 310 of GMG) They are special in that they have a table beyond level 15. (I want to say it is one of the sot where they state the acceptation but not sure what book it is.) If every class could keep leveling why did dragons get a special higher level experience tables for them. If every one could go as high then that makes no sense.

Given that only hand to hand that goes past level 15 is dragon and the special level tables beyond 16 indicate a high probability of something special.

Interesting points everyone. I see we've a couple that have made to "The Top", and I recognize that playing long enough is a key factor (as well as the way the XP system is designed).
I'm curious how "powerful/tough" those few PC's were that actually made level 15 were? I know that it's hard to quantify as Rifts PC's are pretty powerful to begin with (at times) but a level 15 anything in Rifts has to be a seriously tough nut to crack.

For me there are certain style elements that I consider critical to long term survivability. Both of the characters that I have that have survived to top tier are built around a foundation of healing and repair, being careful not to put themselves into situations where escape would be difficult. I suppose its important to note that these are heroes unlimited characters and not rifts characters... but surviving a long time means playing a bit defensive. Plenty of mutations that help survivability. I'd be less confident that a coalition pilot or vagabond could make it to 15. Knowing when to run away. Not having a gm that likes to alpha strike assassinate his players. Lots of important pieces to the puzzle of the long game.

Ehh. Let's see. Only character I got from 1-15 was Alrik. He was revised a few times, as he's existed for about...uh...20+ years now. Technically he's past 15, but most of the exp i got up to 12th lvl was all on the old Palladium chat rooms, playing in 1 shots that rarely got to the climax, or campaigns that rarely got beyond adventure 3. Though I did play him in some regular campaigns for local tabletop.

Samurai 3/Paratrooper 12/Super Spy (psionics) 9

It was a lot of exp, to say the least. A lot of revisions too, as you come to better understand the rules of this game, or as the rules themselves keep changing.

keir451 wrote:Interesting points everyone. I see we've a couple that have made to "The Top", and I recognize that playing long enough is a key factor (as well as the way the XP system is designed).
I'm curious how "powerful/tough" those few PC's were that actually made level 15 were? I know that it's hard to quantify as Rifts PC's are pretty powerful to begin with (at times) but a level 15 anything in Rifts has to be a seriously tough nut to crack.

Depends on the type of charter in my experince. Many pure combat charters are on the low end of power growth curve. The strongest charter I ever have make it to the top was a charter that started as an alchemest imortal in a mediviel mystic martial artist world. The way the story worked we spent decades at a time between main story arcs training in new martial arts. By the time the party hit the level 15 they knew every martial art and technic and the GM ruled that they where all at max level. Each member of that group could single handly take down a AI.

As for how these two managed to survive so long, its definitely a combination of my defensive build and the characters defensive nature.

Both of my longest running characters include long lifespans, massive chi to handle chiatsu healing (1152 chi points with chi overcharge), and both have aps light, so they can both outrun a cosmoknight in-atmosphere (not that either of them has ever been to rifts earth) and both of them have fantastic stealth and espionage powers, so finding them when they dont wanna be found, escaping faster than they can be pursued and monstrous healing capabilities is how they've lasted so long. Their primary roles are stealth/infiltration, medical extraction and machine shop team, not front line 'gunz blazin till everyone's dead'. In terms of outbound raw damage, they're not too shabby with the aps light's d4*10+30 photon beam at 2500 feet beats most other ranged weaponry... so sniper tactics can be an option... only 95 sdc though so it wouldnt take much at all to drop them if they werent semi intangible from aps light. Heat fire cold plasma magic and psionics are the things that get through, and are a bit less common to come by outside of rifts.

Lots of other mutations could have made them better front line combat survival types, but that wasnt really what i was going for and she was alone when I started with her. Only reason he even exists is because of a somewhat antagonistic dm trying to kill her outright going very very wrong. Now there's two of them. I'll have to dig up their sheets to get a full rundown of all the vastly different campaigns they've been through. From yearlong sweeps to one shots, there's been a metric ton of shifts in both theme and location for these two.

Blue_Lion wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:

keir451 wrote:Ok, so I've been spamming the series Overlordand it got me thinking about that seemingly rare creature the 20th level character in Rifts.
I, personally, have never had a campaign last long enough to get a character to 20th level (not that I've ever needed to as I've had plenty of fun just running in the various campaigns) and, let's be honest here, ANY Rifts character is more than capable of taking down just about anything. Anyway I'm just curious, fell free to share your stories!

In play no, I think the highest PB character we've gotten to is like Level 6-ish.

keir451 wrote:

Vincent Takeda wrote:Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Yep, you're right 15 is the level cap. Too much D&D on the brain. Still the principle applies, has anyone ever had a character achieve max level in Rifts?

Level 15 really is not the limit, there are a few examples that involve levels beyond 15 (Dragon HTH and the Demon-Dragon-mage are examples I can think of), but when you stop to extrapolate out the XP table requirement it probably does become something of a limit. Another way to get around it is going the multi-classing route you can get a character level beyond 15 in total.

Nice theory but as no other HTH goes beyond level 15 that does indicate you are siting exceptions to the rule. The acceptation being ancient dragons are listed as going up to level 26 as ancient dragons. (see page 310 of GMG) They are special in that they have a table beyond level 15. (I want to say it is one of the sot where they state the acceptation but not sure what book it is.) If every class could keep leveling why did dragons get a special higher level experience tables for them. If every one could go as high then that makes no sense.

Given that only hand to hand that goes past level 15 is dragon and the special level tables beyond 16 indicate a high probability of something special.

Secrets of the Atlantians has blanket rules for leveling past 15 (it is tucked into a mention about the long lifespan of the Atlantians, but it doesn't say its racial, just tells us how XP costs increase)
THAT said, I believe the books state clearly that player characters can not pass 15... making 16+ NPC only abilities.

Also, simply because the H2H tables don't extend means nothing... we have NPCs that have surpassed 15 and they have regular H2H skills...

eliakon wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:

ShadowLogan wrote:

keir451 wrote:Ok, so I've been spamming the series Overlordand it got me thinking about that seemingly rare creature the 20th level character in Rifts.
I, personally, have never had a campaign last long enough to get a character to 20th level (not that I've ever needed to as I've had plenty of fun just running in the various campaigns) and, let's be honest here, ANY Rifts character is more than capable of taking down just about anything. Anyway I'm just curious, fell free to share your stories!

In play no, I think the highest PB character we've gotten to is like Level 6-ish.

keir451 wrote:

Vincent Takeda wrote:Something must have changed. I thought levels didnt go past 15?! Granted I havent bought a palladium book since dead reign... 20?

Yep, you're right 15 is the level cap. Too much D&D on the brain. Still the principle applies, has anyone ever had a character achieve max level in Rifts?

Level 15 really is not the limit, there are a few examples that involve levels beyond 15 (Dragon HTH and the Demon-Dragon-mage are examples I can think of), but when you stop to extrapolate out the XP table requirement it probably does become something of a limit. Another way to get around it is going the multi-classing route you can get a character level beyond 15 in total.

Nice theory but as no other HTH goes beyond level 15 that does indicate you are siting exceptions to the rule. The acceptation being ancient dragons are listed as going up to level 26 as ancient dragons. (see page 310 of GMG) They are special in that they have a table beyond level 15. (I want to say it is one of the sot where they state the acceptation but not sure what book it is.) If every class could keep leveling why did dragons get a special higher level experience tables for them. If every one could go as high then that makes no sense.

Given that only hand to hand that goes past level 15 is dragon and the special level tables beyond 16 indicate a high probability of something special.

Secrets of the Atlantians has blanket rules for leveling past 15 (it is tucked into a mention about the long lifespan of the Atlantians, but it doesn't say its racial, just tells us how XP costs increase)
THAT said, I believe the books state clearly that player characters can not pass 15... making 16+ NPC only abilities.

Also, simply because the H2H tables don't extend means nothing... we have NPCs that have surpassed 15 and they have regular H2H skills...

Do not have secrets of Atlantiians so did not know about that. But as I said high probability it is something special still holds true. In fact what you just posted supports my statement, that the theory that people most people can level past 15, and the ones that do so are special.

Blue_Lion wrote:

eliakon wrote:

Blue_Lion wrote:Nice theory but as no other HTH goes beyond level 15 that does indicate you are siting exceptions to the rule. The acceptation being ancient dragons are listed as going up to level 26 as ancient dragons. (see page 310 of GMG) They are special in that they have a table beyond level 15. (I want to say it is one of the sot where they state the acceptation but not sure what book it is.) If every class could keep leveling why did dragons get a special higher level experience tables for them. If every one could go as high then that makes no sense.

Given that only hand to hand that goes past level 15 is dragon and the special level tables beyond 16 indicate a high probability of something special.

Secrets of the Atlantians has blanket rules for leveling past 15 (it is tucked into a mention about the long lifespan of the Atlantians, but it doesn't say its racial, just tells us how XP costs increase)
THAT said, I believe the books state clearly that player characters can not pass 15... making 16+ NPC only abilities.

Also, simply because the H2H tables don't extend means nothing... we have NPCs that have surpassed 15 and they have regular H2H skills...

Do not have secrets of Atlantiians so did not know about that. But as I said high probability it is something special still holds true. In fact what you just posted supports my statement, that the theory that people most people can level past 15, and the ones that do so are special.

Yep. NPCs can hit 16+. PCs... not so much.
Basically its a way to make NPCs as arbitrarily powerful as the plot requires with out requiring that PCs be able to advance indefinitely (which can quickly break the curves the game runs on anyway)