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Hello, Has anyone brought up the question as to why Mercs and Robot Pilots (and I'm sure there are other classes) don't have a the Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities section that other O.C.C.'s do (in RUE)? If this is addressed in one of the source books or elsewhere and someone can direct me to it, I would appreciate it. It just seems odd to me that, for example, an Operator O.C.C. gets a bonus to P.S. and additional S.D.C and Merc's don't. And additionally, Rogue Scientists get additional S.D.C. as well. I would think that for the sake of consistency they should have included Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities under each O.C.C. and just said "None" under it if that is the case. On the surface of things, there seems to be a glaring omission. Again, if this has been addressed somewhere and you can direct me to the info, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

jburkett wrote:Hello, Has anyone brought up the question as to why Mercs and Robot Pilots (and I'm sure there are other classes) don't have a the Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities section that other O.C.C.'s do (in RUE)? If this is addressed in one of the source books or elsewhere and someone can direct me to it, I would appreciate it. It just seems odd to me that, for example, an Operator O.C.C. gets a bonus to P.S. and additional S.D.C and Merc's don't. And additionally, Rogue Scientists get additional S.D.C. as well. I would think that for the sake of consistency they should have included Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities under each O.C.C. and just said "None" under it if that is the case. On the surface of things, there seems to be a glaring omission. Again, if this has been addressed somewhere and you can direct me to the info, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

I believe it has to do with "legacy" OCCS vs updated OCC's and power level inflation basically some of the OCC's were gone over and revised, to give them a step up, but not all.

pretty much. prior to RUE, special OCC abilities tended to be uncommon, seen mostly in magic or psionic classes.

RUE revamped a lot of classes to include special skills and abilities, but most of the pre-RUE books have not had their OCC's revamped beyond having their secondary skill listings swapped for the RUE version.

I personally recommend deciding on an appropriate bonus for classes like that if someone is playing one alongside updated classes.

I believe he's referring to the Merc Soldier and Robot Pilot OCC's specifically in the RUE on pages 81 and 83, respectively, in that they do not have OCC bonuses to things like PS and PE and so on and so forth where as OCC's that were in the orignal RMB that got updated in the RUE got OCC bonuses. Granted the Merc Soldier is more on par with either the CS Grunt or CS Tech Officer while the Robot Pilot is on par with the CS SAMAS Pilot, all of which don't get OCC bonuses, despite the CS OCC's having been in the RMB as well.

dragonfett wrote:I believe he's referring to the Merc Soldier and Robot Pilot OCC's specifically in the RUE on pages 81 and 83, respectively, in that they do not have OCC bonuses to things like PS and PE and so on and so forth where as OCC's that were in the orignal RMB that got updated in the RUE got OCC bonuses. Granted the Merc Soldier is more on par with either the CS Grunt or CS Tech Officer while the Robot Pilot is on par with the CS SAMAS Pilot, all of which don't get OCC bonuses, despite the CS OCC's having been in the RMB as well.

Yes, you are correct. Thanks for clarifying for me. In RUE, where OCC's are described, some have a section describing OCC Bonuses and Abilities. For some OCC's this section is quite extensive and other OCC's (Merc Soldier and Robot Pilot for example) don't have this section at all. I just wanted to check to see if perhaps there was some errata published or a Rifter that might have corrected this (if it was mistakenly omitted. Thanks again!

I'd still recommend adding some little bonuses on if it seems appropriate. A Merc Soldier not getting a bump to SDC or PS when a Body Fixer does seems odd, to say the least.

You could add some of the special bonuses for unusual human characteristics/aptitudes from Lone Star. That's a nice way to cover down on any class that lacks special perks.

jburkett wrote:Hello, Has anyone brought up the question as to why Mercs and Robot Pilots (and I'm sure there are other classes) don't have a the Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities section that other O.C.C.'s do (in RUE)? If this is addressed in one of the source books or elsewhere and someone can direct me to it, I would appreciate it. It just seems odd to me that, for example, an Operator O.C.C. gets a bonus to P.S. and additional S.D.C and Merc's don't. And additionally, Rogue Scientists get additional S.D.C. as well. I would think that for the sake of consistency they should have included Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities under each O.C.C. and just said "None" under it if that is the case. On the surface of things, there seems to be a glaring omission. Again, if this has been addressed somewhere and you can direct me to the info, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

The Robot Pilot OCC really would not benefit in their designated role by a bonus to nearly any of the 8 attributes (IQ might be an exception for skill bonus), and SDC shouldn't really be a factor. IINM in terms of skills they are already pretty advanced given that most other classes, even if they wanted to become a 'bot/PA pilot would have to spend several skills (at least 3 to be "passable", reality looks more like 6) giving them a leg up. This OCC likely also depends more on their equipment to compensate and the bonuses from their skills (RC:E essentially acts as a CK or Juicer or Crazy special bonuses).

The Mercenary OCC in RUE is more of a valid concern, but their (and maybe even Robot OCC) special bonus may be in the form of extra stock "skills" (I can't say for sure, but these two OCCs get something like 20+ OCC skills essentially, which is more than most of of the OCCs in RUE get in terms of OCC, factoring in other/secondary may make it a wash I don't know as I haven't looked at it in depth).

ShadowLogan wrote:

jburkett wrote:Hello, Has anyone brought up the question as to why Mercs and Robot Pilots (and I'm sure there are other classes) don't have a the Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities section that other O.C.C.'s do (in RUE)? If this is addressed in one of the source books or elsewhere and someone can direct me to it, I would appreciate it. It just seems odd to me that, for example, an Operator O.C.C. gets a bonus to P.S. and additional S.D.C and Merc's don't. And additionally, Rogue Scientists get additional S.D.C. as well. I would think that for the sake of consistency they should have included Special O.C.C. Bonuses and Abilities under each O.C.C. and just said "None" under it if that is the case. On the surface of things, there seems to be a glaring omission. Again, if this has been addressed somewhere and you can direct me to the info, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

The Robot Pilot OCC really would not benefit in their designated role by a bonus to nearly any of the 8 attributes (IQ might be an exception for skill bonus), and SDC shouldn't really be a factor. IINM in terms of skills they are already pretty advanced given that most other classes, even if they wanted to become a 'bot/PA pilot would have to spend several skills (at least 3 to be "passable", reality looks more like 6) giving them a leg up. This OCC likely also depends more on their equipment to compensate and the bonuses from their skills (RC:E essentially acts as a CK or Juicer or Crazy special bonuses).

The Mercenary OCC in RUE is more of a valid concern, but their (and maybe even Robot OCC) special bonus may be in the form of extra stock "skills" (I can't say for sure, but these two OCCs get something like 20+ OCC skills essentially, which is more than most of of the OCCs in RUE get in terms of OCC, factoring in other/secondary may make it a wash I don't know as I haven't looked at it in depth).

Note that for these skill count comparisons, I count hth basic as 1, expert as 2, martial arts or assassin as 3, and commando as 4 based on weight of evidence for skill choice value. I also include information about taking Advanced Training (AT) later in life.

Mercenary OCC members get 20 OCC, related, and secondary skills plus 6 to 8 MOS skills, for a total of 26-28 1st lvl skills. They get 5 more related (so at lvl 3 could take a skill and trade the rest away for AT) and six more secondary, allowing a second AT potentially by trading away 5 new skills at level 8 (3rd level OCC plus both lvl 4 and lvl 8 secondary skills) without touching initial skills.

Combat Cyborgs gets 25 total, with 4 future related (so can get one AT at level 3) and only 3 future secondary (so a second AT will have to cut into initial skills). (If one can get the ATs at first level, this can be a good OCC to do that with because it is only a total of 9 1st level skills and 16 total traded away for 2 ATs at 1st level) The language translator could up that effective skill count by a fair amount, but I am blanking on if that is bionic only or if it is also a cybernetic option.

Crazies get 36 total lvl 1 skills, and get 8 future OCC skills, so go ahead and trade all the choices away at lvl 3 for two ATs if you want. They also get 4 more secondary skills. They of course also get a ton of bonuses.

Cyber-knights get a total of 39 OCC skills, plus 10 future OCC related skills (and thus can easily trade away for two ATs at level 3) and 6 future secondary skills. They also get a ton of bonuses.

Glitter Boy pilots get 26 1st level skills, plus 5 future OCC related skills and 8 future secondary skills. Can take 1 OCC skill at lvl 3 and trade the other 4 away for one AT, then use the 2 secondaries from 3 and 5 plus that lvl 3 OCC to get a second AT at level 5 if desired. They only get extra bonuses if they are from a long line of GB pilots.

Headhunter Techno-warriors get 37 1st level skills, plus 4 future OCC related skills (and thus can trade for one AT at 3rd lvl) and 8 future secondary skills (would have to wait until lvl 9 to take a second AT without touching initial skills). They also get some nice OCC bonuses.

Juicers get 30 1st lvl skills, plus 5 future OCC related skills (one of which comes at lvl 2, but leaves 4 more to trade away at lvl 3 for one AT) and 10 future secondary skills; by using the lvl 3 and 6 secondaries and the lvl 2 OCC related you could get a second AT at lvl 6 without sacrificing initial skills. They also get a ton of bonuses.

Robot pilots get 24 1st lvl skills plus 5 more OCC related (one at lvl 2, allowing the other 4 to be traded away at lvl 3 for an AT). Both the Power Armor MOS and the Robot MOS grant an additional 9 MOS skill at 1st lvl (33 total) plus 4 more Robot Combat elite skills in the future (Up to GM if those can count as future OCC related for the purpose of trading away for an AT; if they do that is 2 ATs at lvl 3).

Mercenary soldier is about as weak as an OCC can get. They are specifically limited to basic vehicle types - Power armor and robots are not an option. Keep in mind that your Body Fixer can take any pilot skills, including Robot Combat Elite. City rats can take Robot Combat: Basic (but apparently can't pilot them? This may be an error). Cyber-Docs can take any, including elite. So can Operators, Rogue Scientists, Ley Line Walkers, Techno-Wizards, Mind Melters, and Civilized Psi-Stalkers.

City Rats, Operators, Rogue Scientists, Vagabonds, Wilderness Scouts, Ley Line Walkers, Mystics, Shifters, Techno-Wizards, Bursters, DOG BOYS, Mind Melters, and both civilized and wild Psi-Stalkers can get Martial Arts or Assassin. Rogue Scholars can get martial arts.

I would definitely give them some other bonuses if a PC is playing one.

Rifts Mercenaries, pp.19-29: Bounty Hunter OCC; OCC Bonus: +2 on initiative, +2 to pull punch, Freelance Spy OCC; OCC Bonus +1 initiative, +2 roll w/impact or fall, Master Assassin OCC; OCC Bonus +3 initiative, +1 save vs. mind control, Smuggler OCC; OCC Bonus: +1 initiative when palming, or involving streetwise or concealment, (my personal favorite) Special Forces OCC: OCC Bonus: +23 initiative, +2 roll, +2 pull punch Standard Equipment Personalized suit of light or heavy MD body armor, including CS armor... Owns either 1 robot vehicle or one suit of power armor., Super Spy OCC no OCC bonuses but under "Special Powers" (Mercenaries p.28) "Select ONE" Magic Abilities, Psionic Abilities, Cybernetics and Bionics, D-Bee or Mutant Powers, (and finally) Professional Thief OCC; OCC Bonus: +1 initiative.
I deliberately left out the few OCCs that didn't provide an OCC bonus mainly to emphasize the ones that DID. The other OCCs each had their own special talents, instead of OCC Bonuses, that made them unique and (IMO) negated the need for extra bonuses. I (personally) felt the much fewer Mercenary OCCs in the RUE were redundant since we already had Mercenaries and took away the "flavor" of having the different OCCs that could be found in the world of Mercenaries and as such chose to ignore them.

The impression I have of the Merc Soldier & Robot Pilot O.C.C.s in RUE is that they were intended to be more along the lines of NPC mooks & optional low-power player characters. A PC looking to play a mercenary grunt but wanting more power should be playing a Headhunter or one of the elite O.C.C.s from The Mercenaries or Mercenary Adventures Sourcebooks.

The merc soldier is roughly equal to the CS grunt, who also gets no bonuses. The PA robot pilot is equal to the samas pilot that does not get bonus.

Expecting consistency from PB is like expecting to find cheese in your socks.

Merc Soldier get MOS Special Skills.

Robot Pilot or Power Armor Pilot must pick either Robot Vehicles to Specialize in and the individual RV type OR Power Armors to Specialize in and which individual Power Armor types they specialize in...