Well you can stop working on those Rifter submissions

[Warshield73]

If you missed it in this weeks Weekly Update

The Rifter® will be going on indefinite hiatus in a few issues. The Rifter® #84 will be the last issue for at least two years. Anyone who has a subscription beyond that number, will get a store credit for the balance of their subscription.

I know many of you will be disappointed, but this is best for the company. We are doing this so that all of us can devote our time to releasing RPG sourcebooks, World Books, Dimension Books and supplements, including awaited titles for Rifts® and the Palladium Fantasy RPG® to Beyond the Supernatural™ and Heroes Unlimited™. Moreover, we have been working on several Top Secret projects for the last few years. As those projects heat up, we need more time to devote to them and, hopefully, a large number of new releases. To make this happen, something had to go, and that something is The Rifter® — at least temporarily. We hope you understand.

I am extremely disappointed in this. I have been a subscriber since issue one in 1998. I loved reading ideas and stories from other PB players and GMs and it always to me gave sense of community. I'm going to be sorry to see it go as a two year 'hiatus' to me says it's going away and not coming back. If I'm wrong about this and issue 85 shows up in 2023 I will be extremely happy and surprised.

It is probably best for PB though, I mean it probably doesn't sell that well. Maybe if they bring it back it will come back as a digital only product.

[zerombr]

even if it doesn't come back, don't stop submitting items. lets show that we still have the spirit. Maybe a digital release will happen, or maybe we'll get something added to a new sourcebook (my personal hope)

[kaid]

I am sorry they are doing this but it really does make a lot of logical sense. As much as I love the rifter they are clearly having enough issues getting mainline products out in a timely fashion and being a small company the rifter has to take up a non trivial amount of their available "bandwidth". Best to put rifter to rest for the time being get their main products flowing more normally and then if that seems to be sorted out look into relaunching rifters in the future. I would keep submitting stuff unless they ask people to stop. It's possible rifter morphs into a once a year best of the best submission type deal.

[Kovoston]

I just submitted an article just two weeks ago...

[zerombr]

good chance it'll be picked for 83 or 84 then, man, since less ppl will be submitting

[Hotrod]

Well, it was nice while it lasted, and I'm glad that I got an article published in Rifter 69. Kevin seemed to take a more active role in the Rifter in the last several years, and we saw a lot more "official" material. When the Rifter went from being a "Good but not book-deal good stuff from our slushpile" to something that the Palladium crew had to write for regularly, that's when the Rifter's days became numbered.

[Warshield73]

Well, it was nice while it lasted, and I'm glad that I got an article published in Rifter 69. Kevin seemed to take a more active role in the Rifter in the last several years, and we saw a lot more "official" material. When the Rifter went from being a "Good but not book-deal good stuff from our slushpile" to something that the Palladium crew had to write for regularly, that's when the Rifter's days became numbered.

I have always wondered why this started happening. Were there not enough submissions, not enough good submissions or did they just decide to change the focus in the hopes increasing readership.

[Josh Hilden]

The Rifter was the last thing I stopped buying from Palladium. I still loved reading fan material even after I finished with the company. I lost a bit of my taste for it when it became a more "Official Material" publication. Still, I'm sad to see it go. There were some fantastic, quirky articles in it.

[Tick]

Unfortunate - but people still produce material for Palladium books as Opensource material. I certainly have. No hard rules or conversions.
For our game I published a quick and dirty city guide found here...
http://www.lulu.com/shop/richard-grzela ... 73889.html
A great addition for anyone looking to bring some life to their game world.

[pad300]

Ok, I submitted a couple of things about the end of February. Having not heard a thing since, can I assume they have been rejected?

[Warshield73]

Ok, I submitted a couple of things about the end of February. Having not heard a thing since, can I assume they have been rejected?

I think this is part of the problem. They don't seem to have system in place to receive, review, provide feedback for, and reject submissions as well as get all the necessary releases for those submissions.

At the same time that we have seen people on these forums upset because they have not heard back about their submissions we have also seen Alex asking for releases to be sent in for submissions that don't have the correct paperwork. What they have needed for a long time now is a system to keep track of submission and releases but that would require a lot of time and probably some money neither of which they seem to have.

I think this is probably the main reason they are dropping the RIfter.

[Hotrod]

A few things to keep in mind:

First, Palladium gets a lot of unsolicited material. Their slushpile is huge, and the backlog they have to work through is often months worth of material. As an example, the Arenas of Atlantis article, which they accepted and published exactly as I submitted, took about 8 months after I submitted it to get looked at.

Second, the vast majority of material that every publisher receives (solicited or otherwise) isn't fit to print. Not in a Rifter, and not in a published book. This can be due to length, writing quality, inconsistency with the setting, inappropriate content, or many other factors. Arenas of Atlantis was one of several pieces of writing I sent them, and thus far it's the only one published.

Third, it takes time to wade through that slushpile, it takes time to edit articles, it takes time to do layout, and it takes time to write their own stuff in-house when they don't find enough of the kinds of articles they want in the slushpile. Palladium doesn't send out rejection notices and forces submitters to essentially give up all rights to submitted material until or unless they reject it; by effectively retaining the rights to all submitted material in perpetuity, they seem to be unique among publishers I've interacted with. Still, if they did send out rejection letters, that would be an additional drain on their time.

Palladium's lifeblood is its mainstay RPG books. They have a lot of projects in the hopper, and they have plenty of writers both in-house and freelance to draw on. The Rifter is taking up too much of their time, and while it has been a neat thing, and I'm sad to see it ending, I understand the decision.

All that said, it would be nice to at least see some kind of blanket rejection notice for all materials submitted to the Rifter. I'd like the option to post my Rifts novel manuscript on some website for fans to read.

[zerombr]

you think they have a big slush pile still? They were just saying a few months ago that they really needed new material, so my guess is that they either pushed aside all the old submissions or they weren't ruled to be published

[Hotrod]

Fair enough; maybe it's different now.

[pad300]

A few things to keep in mind:

First, Palladium gets a lot of unsolicited material. Their slushpile is huge, and the backlog they have to work through is often months worth of material. As an example, the Arenas of Atlantis article, which they accepted and published exactly as I submitted, took about 8 months after I submitted it to get looked at.

Second, the vast majority of material that every publisher receives (solicited or otherwise) isn't fit to print. Not in a Rifter, and not in a published book. This can be due to length, writing quality, inconsistency with the setting, inappropriate content, or many other factors. Arenas of Atlantis was one of several pieces of writing I sent them, and thus far it's the only one published.

Third, it takes time to wade through that slushpile, it takes time to edit articles, it takes time to do layout, and it takes time to write their own stuff in-house when they don't find enough of the kinds of articles they want in the slushpile. Palladium doesn't send out rejection notices and forces submitters to essentially give up all rights to submitted material until or unless they reject it; by effectively retaining the rights to all submitted material in perpetuity, they seem to be unique among publishers I've interacted with. Still, if they did send out rejection letters, that would be an additional drain on their time.

Palladium's lifeblood is its mainstay RPG books. They have a lot of projects in the hopper, and they have plenty of writers both in-house and freelance to draw on. The Rifter is taking up too much of their time, and while it has been a neat thing, and I'm sad to see it ending, I understand the decision.

All that said, it would be nice to at least see some kind of blanket rejection notice for all materials submitted to the Rifter. I'd like the option to post my Rifts novel manuscript on some website for fans to read.

The bolded is a VERY interesting statement. I would suggest that it is a SIGNIFICANT violation of the implicit contract that they have put out! Yes, they can claim all rights to the submitted material up until they reject it, but that is VERY different than they claim all rights to the submitted material forever, because they refuse to commit to a rejection process... If they don't have a process for sending out rejection letters, and thus never do, that is, in my opinion, approaching fraud. Yes, I realize that the F word is something they will be very unhappy about reading, but it's nonetheless true. You are correct, they REALLY need some sort of a rejection process. Even a blanket rejection notice upon issue of the "final" issue would be fine, but without it, I think they are not in comfortable legal territory.

[Hotrod]

I wouldn't consider it fraud. Palladium is pretty upfront about it.

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium until Palladium advises you that your works have been rejected if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works.

In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

It's a pretty brutal agreement for submitting authors, but we know what we're getting into.

[pad300]

I wouldn't consider it fraud. Palladium is pretty upfront about it.

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium until Palladium advises you that your works have been rejected if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works.

In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

It's a pretty brutal agreement for submitting authors, but we know what we're getting into.

That implies, that there is in fact a process to have your works rejected, so you can take them somewhere else. IF they have no process at all to fulfill their part of it, then they have in fact committed a fraud. To make that clause non-fraudulent, without such a process, it would have to be written:

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium. In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

[Hotrod]

I'm not a lawyer; I interpret the phrase that follows it, where it says "if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works" to mean that they might not ever accept or reject them. That said, virtually everything that gets submitted to Palladium is a derivative work, which couldn't really be published for profit anywhere else other than possibly the Savage Worlds IP (which doesn't take unsolicited works as far as I know).

[Josh Hilden]

Unless you strip it of all IP specific aspects.

[Jack Burton]

...an argument and or interpretation that will soon be moot.

[eliakon]

I wouldn't consider it fraud. Palladium is pretty upfront about it.

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium until Palladium advises you that your works have been rejected if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works.

In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

It's a pretty brutal agreement for submitting authors, but we know what we're getting into.

That implies, that there is in fact a process to have your works rejected, so you can take them somewhere else. IF they have no process at all to fulfill their part of it, then they have in fact committed a fraud. To make that clause non-fraudulent, without such a process, it would have to be written:

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium. In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

Hotrod is correct
the phrase "if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject..." keyword "if" means that its not a fraud.
You agreed to an open ended contract that Palladium may, or may not at their sole discretion and at their sole timing, may end.
If you don't like that your free to not submit... but once you submit its there's for ever and ever amen, unless they choose to release it back to you (with certain caveats) via a formal rejection.
It is, as mentioned before pretty harsh stuff... but it has the weight of the law behind it because you agreed to the contract ahead of time. The courts don't recognize buyers remorse as a valid justification to get out of a contract.

[Warshield73]

I wouldn't consider it fraud. Palladium is pretty upfront about it.

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium until Palladium advises you that your works have been rejected if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works.

In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

It's a pretty brutal agreement for submitting authors, but we know what we're getting into.

That implies, that there is in fact a process to have your works rejected, so you can take them somewhere else. IF they have no process at all to fulfill their part of it, then they have in fact committed a fraud. To make that clause non-fraudulent, without such a process, it would have to be written:

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium. In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

Hotrod is correct
the phrase "if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject..." keyword "if" means that its not a fraud.
You agreed to an open ended contract that Palladium may, or may not at their sole discretion and at their sole timing, may end.
If you don't like that your free to not submit... but once you submit its there's for ever and ever amen, unless they choose to release it back to you (with certain caveats) via a formal rejection.
It is, as mentioned before pretty harsh stuff... but it has the weight of the law behind it because you agreed to the contract ahead of time. The courts don't recognize buyers remorse as a valid justification to get out of a contract.

I think all of this is correct except this being "pretty harsh stuff". Have you read the terms and conditions for YouTube or Amazon? It's like a Satan contract, I'm surprised we don't have to go to a crossroads and smear our blood on the screen before we click agree. I swear when I was skimming one of them it said something about my immortal soul so not sure if PB's terms are all that harsh.

Unless you strip it of all IP specific aspects.

If you do this and then add in the specifics for a different IP I can't imagine that it would still be similar enough to not allow publication.

...an argument and or interpretation that will soon be moot.

This to me is the question and someone should take it to Alex. When they have made the final selections for Rifter 84 will they give a blanket rejection for all Rifter Submissions? Not for freelance submissions but just Rifter articles. Since it's just being listed an indefinite hiatus I don't think it would be automatic but it would be nice if they would clear the deck as it were.

[Josh Hilden]

Unless you strip it of all IP specific aspects.

If you do this and then add in the specifics for a different IP I can't imagine that it would still be similar enough to not allow publication.

It's been done successfully lots of times as long as the IP specific stuff ADDED are original enough.

[Bill]

If you have work that you were hoping to publish in the Rifter, consider posting it to the forum. It may still be of use to someone.

[bar1scorpio]

even if it doesn't come back, don't stop submitting items. lets show that we still have the spirit. Maybe a digital release will happen, or maybe we'll get something added to a new sourcebook (my personal hope)

This.

Many of the multi-part submissions were already supplement-length when added all up. Look at splicers: I Am Legion.

[Josh Hilden]

The Reapers were supposed to be hardcore.

They'd help people but then demand tribute, kinda like the Saviors but not quite as brutal on initial contact. There was none of these noble knights of the road BS.

[Kovoston]

The Reapers were supposed to be hardcore.

They'd help people but then demand tribute, kinda like the Saviors but not quite as brutal on initial contact. There was none of these noble knights of the road BS.

What would the 'tribute' usually be?

[shadrak]

I wouldn't consider it fraud. Palladium is pretty upfront about it.

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium until Palladium advises you that your works have been rejected if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject your works.

In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

It's a pretty brutal agreement for submitting authors, but we know what we're getting into.

That implies, that there is in fact a process to have your works rejected, so you can take them somewhere else. IF they have no process at all to fulfill their part of it, then they have in fact committed a fraud. To make that clause non-fraudulent, without such a process, it would have to be written:

"You also agree that you will not submit these works to any other person, nor to allow their publication by any person other than Palladium. In addition, if Palladium ever accepts your works for publication, you will agree to assign any and all copyright, trademark and other intellectual property rights to Palladium, in exchange for Palladium's standard payment."

Hotrod is correct
the phrase "if, indeed, Palladium ever does reject..." keyword "if" means that its not a fraud.
You agreed to an open ended contract that Palladium may, or may not at their sole discretion and at their sole timing, may end.
If you don't like that your free to not submit... but once you submit its there's for ever and ever amen, unless they choose to release it back to you (with certain caveats) via a formal rejection.
It is, as mentioned before pretty harsh stuff... but it has the weight of the law behind it because you agreed to the contract ahead of time. The courts don't recognize buyers remorse as a valid justification to get out of a contract.

The courts also don’t recognize contracts like these as enforceable.


Offer, acceptance, consideration, mutuality of obligation, competency and capacity.

Elements of the offer, acceptance, and consideration are lacking to the point that court would never enforce the agreement on behalf of the person submitting or on behalf of Palladium.

[Fenris2020]

I realize that for some reason Palladium is a small company.
But I hate to see the Rifter go.
I also don't think Palladium HAS to be a small company. I remember when Wizards of the Coast acquired Bard Games, and all they had was Talislanta… before they even had the Deckmaster games (like Magic).
And Palladium has been around about as long.
People who play Palladium stuff love it, it's good quality and hasn't gone through 5+ editions. The only thing that Palladium could have done better for its games is to make sure its rules and storylines don't contradict each-other.