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Juicer Uprising mentioned under forbidden races that supernatural shapeshifters like changelings/dragons/pleasurers can't become juicers...

Would this mean if a Pleasurer visits other dimensions and gets killed it will be reborn on its home planet?

Axelmania wrote:Juicer Uprising mentioned under forbidden races that supernatural shapeshifters like changelings/dragons/pleasurers can't become juicers...

Would this mean if a Pleasurer visits other dimensions and gets killed it will be reborn on its home planet?

No. Heck, Changelings writeup says they are creatures of magic, not supernatural beings, and have in every printing of them. Pleasurers meanwhile just say they MAY be related to changelings, but also may not be. they are not discribed as either supernatural or creatures of magic.

Juicer Uprising likely just got mixed up what they were.

Changeling writeup says CoM, but doesn't say "not supernatural", so they can be both, like dragons

Carella wrote both Phase World and JU so I don't think he would "mix up" what Pleasurers are.

Axelmania wrote:Changeling writeup says CoM, but doesn't say "not supernatural", so they can be both, like dragons

Carella wrote both Phase World and JU so I don't think he would "mix up" what Pleasurers are.

I've read Carella's works. He can get mixed up in the same book, let alone ones written years apart

You asked, I answered, you're going to need more than that if you want to convince anyone they're supernatural.

How many months apart were the 1st eds of DB2/WB11?

Axelmania wrote:How many months apart were the 1st eds of DB2/WB11?

December 1 1994 was Phase World, March 1 1996 was Juicer Uprising.

I know I sure get details mixed up when I write something 2 years later.

It does indicate that CJ Intended Pleasuers to be a subspecies of Changlings even though he just hinted at it in Phase World--but sinse Changelings being CoM date back to the 80's with Palladium Fantasy, he could just have gotten mixed up on if Changlings were considered CoM or SN too. He certainly gets them mixed up in other places in his writing. Especially sinse all supernatural beings being reborn on their native plane wasn't a rule until Rifts Ultimate Edition in 2006, a full decade after.

Prior to RUE, there was no meaningful disctition between CoM and Supernatural other than Lifespan, and even some Supernatural beings explictly still had defined though eons-spanning life spans. So CJ tended to just slap the SN label on everything because it didn't really matter much which it was classified as and CJ's writing style has always been "Write cool stuff, don't sweat the small details". Space Figters having speeds mesured in Mach is one excellent Example. CJ just didn't care about technical accuracy, period. He'd call anything with magic Supernatural because in his mind Creature of Magic and Supernatural might as well be interchangeable terms, and the rules didn't then enforce a clear distiction.

Then RUE came out and everything with the SN label gets retconned, and in ways that don't make a great deal of sense in many cases. Sea Titans are my favorite case in point. They are humans turned minor supernatural. Immortal, regenative, and Supernatural. But they're also native to Rifts Earth. So they do die permanently if they get killed on earth, but get reborn on earth if they travel to other dimensions? Sea Titans make the best Dimensional Traveler RCC for those who want to play humans ever, then! and sinse a Sea Titan mating with a normal human results in a full powered Sea Titan 100% of the time, it's only a matter of time before Sea Titan Humans take over Rifts Earth and use it as a launching point to conquer the Megaverse. The fact they have high chance to be psychic and even maser psionics is a bonus. Plus it even says the older ones have studied magic, so after a century or so they can even start picking up Magic using OCCs.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Axelmania wrote:How many months apart were the 1st eds of DB2/WB11?

December 1 1994 was Phase World, March 1 1996 was Juicer Uprising.

I know I sure get details mixed up when I write something 2 years later.

It does indicate that CJ Intended Pleasuers to be a subspecies of Changlings even though he just hinted at it in Phase World--but sinse Changelings being CoM date back to the 80's with Palladium Fantasy, he could just have gotten mixed up on if Changlings were considered CoM or SN too. He certainly gets them mixed up in other places in his writing. Especially sinse all supernatural beings being reborn on their native plane wasn't a rule until Rifts Ultimate Edition in 2006, a full decade after.

Prior to RUE, there was no meaningful disctition between CoM and Supernatural other than Lifespan, and even some Supernatural beings explictly still had defined though eons-spanning life spans. So CJ tended to just slap the SN label on everything because it didn't really matter much which it was classified as and CJ's writing style has always been "Write cool stuff, don't sweat the small details". Space Figters having speeds mesured in Mach is one excellent Example. CJ just didn't care about technical accuracy, period. He'd call anything with magic Supernatural because in his mind Creature of Magic and Supernatural might as well be interchangeable terms, and the rules didn't then enforce a clear distiction.

Then RUE came out and everything with the SN label gets retconned, and in ways that don't make a great deal of sense in many cases. Sea Titans are my favorite case in point. They are humans turned minor supernatural. Immortal, regenative, and Supernatural. But they're also native to Rifts Earth. So they do die permanently if they get killed on earth, but get reborn on earth if they travel to other dimensions? Sea Titans make the best Dimensional Traveler RCC for those who want to play humans ever, then! and sinse a Sea Titan mating with a normal human results in a full powered Sea Titan 100% of the time, it's only a matter of time before Sea Titan Humans take over Rifts Earth and use it as a launching point to conquer the Megaverse. The fact they have high chance to be psychic and even maser psionics is a bonus. Plus it even says the older ones have studied magic, so after a century or so they can even start picking up Magic using OCCs.

I just made a post in a similar discussion on http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=156653&start=50 that ended with a suggestion that we view statements of something being supernatural in their original context. It was clearly not the authors intent to make Pleasurers fully immortal and reincarnate when they die as per the retconned definition of supernatural being in RUE. The same could be said of the Sea Titan. So I think that you shouldn't apply the powers that come from the RUE definition of supernatural to all of the creatures in previous books that were called supernatural beings.

By the way Nekira I really like your explanation quoted above.

I would, honestly, house rule this.
The reason is that the entire "reincarnating in their home world" thing is, to be honest, fairly clunkly and doenst really fit.
I would remove it as a defining trait of supernatural beings and simply have it as an option.
Same with immortality, since we have so many examples of non-immortal supernatural beings.


Granted, that's a house rule solution... but the RAW here are, as in so many other areas, a contradictory mess.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:It does indicate that CJ Intended Pleasuers to be a subspecies of Changlings even though he just hinted at it in Phase World--

You mean as opposed to the original PRPG where Kev explicitly said that Gnomes were a Subspecies of Dwarf?

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Especially sinse all supernatural beings being reborn on their native plane wasn't a rule until Rifts Ultimate Edition in 2006, a full decade after.

I read the first sentence of that RUE 277 entry as "be they gods or demons" being a requirement. If they aren't a god or demon, ignore the rest! That's why the bolded entry begins with "Demons, Gods". If it was truly about ALL of them the heading would just be "Supernatural Beings (including demons, gods, and other stuff)".

"All" is only in the context of demons and gods who are supernatural.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Prior to RUE, there was no meaningful disctition between CoM and Supernatural other than Lifespan,

The most meaningful distinction is that some abilities or items or spells would only signify one.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:it's only a matter of time before Sea Titan Humans take over Rifts Earth and use it as a launching point to conquer the Megaverse.

You almost have to assume a coordinated campaign of genocide to explain why this hasn't already started spreading to the Three Galaxies considering the level of trade going on.

Perhaps the Atlanteans or Altess got wind of them and wanted to wipe out the competition.