Gnome Weapon Damage

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. So I'm working on a sheet that will include weapons for other races. Giant-sized weapons for races such as Ogres, Trolls, and Wolfen are easy (add one die of damage), but Gnome weapons are a bit more complicated as I found two different answers.

Option 1: 1D4 or 1D6 damage, based upon the list found on page 269 of the Palladium Fantasy Second Edition main book (note at the bottom of the Weapons list). While there would probably be exceptions (based upon the list) for the most part that means 1-handed weapons do 1D4 and 2-handed weapons do 1D6.

Option 2: Half damage of the Human-sized equivalent, per page 295 of the Palladium Fantasy Second Edition main book in the Gnome write-up (Note 4 of "Other Notes"). The way I'd need to translate this is that 1D6 weapons inflict only 1D4 damage, 2D6+2 damage would be 1D6+1, and something like 3D6 would probably be 2D4.

Option 3: Another "official" source that I missed. Only official sources (or a way to make sense of Option 1 and 2 together), please. For my project, I'd prefer to use official sources only (so no house rules that completely ignore both 1 and 2), though I will accept an "official" source from a setting other than Palladium Fantasy (i.e. a Rifts answer or other PB setting is acceptable).

I have my preference, but I wanted to come here and see the opinions of others. I will likely abide by whichever option has the most votes (unless someone makes an extremely swaying case to convince me). This is for my NPC sheets, and both options can be handled relatively easily (so don't worry about complexity, I can handle that). I've already finished most of the work on the Races and the O.C.C. (including skills, ways to easily customize it, adjust for Hand to Hand upgrades, and Physical skill selections), but ran into this as I started working on their Weapons & Armour (which is one of my last steps before trouble-shooting). On a side note, if anyone knows of an "official" rule regarding Gnome and/or Giant-sized Armor, please let me know (as far as I'm aware, there's no rule and all armor for all races end up the same).

Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

[kiralon]

Option 1 is a copy paste error from first ed, as that's the first ed rules for gnomes, as they forgot to edit it because you can see where they did edit in the list (Weapon damage is a different font, bit about gnomes is the same font)

Option 2 is a bit nonsensical as its a limited list of weapons
To use weapons such as spears, forks, pole arms, battle axes, and ball and chains, the weapon must be made gnome-sized (reduce the human equivalent by half)

I personally use the first ed version as it's less immersion breaking for me.
(I do extra damage in 6ft lots for giants as well. A Jotans 20ft claymore is going to do more damage then a wolfens 10ft claymore)

So I'd vote 1

[Prysus]

Option 1 is a copy paste error from first ed, as that's the first ed rules for gnomes, as they forgot to edit it because you can see where they did edit in the list (Weapon damage is a different font, bit about gnomes is the same font)

Greetings and Salutations. Interesting. I hadn't noticed that before. I appreciate the information. Originally, I was planning to stay mostly out of this, but after your post I decided to give my thoughts. After all, I believe the best way to come to a logical conclusion is through discussion.

Option 2 is a bit nonsensical as its a limited list of weapons
To use weapons such as spears, forks, pole arms, battle axes, and ball and chains, the weapon must be made gnome-sized (reduce the human equivalent by half)

I suppose the list is limited. If I followed the rule as written, Gnomes could use human-sized weapons such as a Knife, Claymore, or Iron Staff without penalty, which would definitely be odd. I, personally, took the passage as many types need to be Gnome-Sized (which then clarifies is half size and half damage), but Gnomes can use certain human-sized weapons such as a knife (somewhere between a short and long sword to a Gnome) or short staff (closer to a bo staff for a Gnome). Certain weapons don't scale (such as pole arms or ball and chain weapons).

I personally use the first ed version as it's less immersion breaking for me.
[snip]
So I'd vote 1

Oddly, I'm kind of the other way. To me, a Voulge (4D6), Claymore (3D6), and Long Sword (2D6) all doing 1D6 damage for Gnomes while a Battle Axe (3D6), Scimitar (2D6), and Dagger (1D6) all do 1D4 breaks my immersion. That's averaging 1 point of damage difference between a Voulge and a Dagger, and a Battle Axe (3D6) is doing less damage than a Long Sword (2D6). Add that onto the fact Dwarves and Goblins (which can be as small as 3 ft) can use human-sized weapons without issue (so a Voulge is 4D6 still), but Gnomes (as tall as 2 1/2 feet, only half a foot shorter than the other two) and suddenly the damage drops considerably. I can accept Palladium drew the line somewhere (so I'm not nitpicking on the line itself), I just don't like the sudden and sharp decline using the 1st Edition rules. While nice and clean cut, it always felt lazy to me. Note: I also like how the 2nd Edition rule gives more of a variety to the weapons selected, as opposed to every weapon effectively being the exact same with the 1st Edition rule.

On the other hand, I can see how the Second Edition rule is odd and can create alternately arbitrary rulings. To me, the spirit of the rule is that Gnome-sized weapons do half-damage (though they can use some human-sized weapons without penalty, when needed), but I can see how that might also be (at least to a degree) a house rule.

As I'm working on a 2nd Edition sheet, knowing that one of the rules is 1st Edition and the other 2nd Edition does make me more inclined to use the 2nd Edition rule (especially since it's the one I'm favoring). But, I'm remaining open to discussion. Also, if in the end, the votes favor the 1st Edition rule, I'll likely regardless of personal feelings. After all, I'm making the NPC Sheet more for others, not myself. My reason for posting isn't to say this is the rule I'm using regardless, but to open discussion and give others a viewpoint that either agrees with me or to form posts that convince me I'm wrong. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.



P.S. kiralon, I did make a small change to the options about a minute after posting (I didn't think anyone voted yet, so I wasn't worried), but I did notice there were no votes for Option 1. If you did vote, I apologize. You should be able to re-vote. If you didn't select an option on the poll at all, that's okay too. I just didn't want to skew the results on accident. Thank you.

[kiralon]

Looking back about 1/2 damage was what they were going for because everything basically got an extra 1d6 damage with second ed (e.g a first ed voulge does 3d6)
so that is pretty much the spirit of it, except it isn't what they say. I sticked to the first ed damage because the damage difference between a 30cm sharp pointy thing and a 60cm sharp pointy thing in the hands of a 2ft tall creature isn't going to be huge. Gnomes aren't made for hth.

A 6 inch fairy with a 1 damage axe and wp axe giving + 1d6 damage at lvl2 is hilarious. The games is very human orientated (short human/dwarf or tall human/elf).

[Whiskeyjack]

I know you're not looking for house rules, but I do the opposite of the giant sized. If a Titan is going to do 4D6 with a two handed sword instead of 3D6, it makes sense to me that a Gnome would do 2D6 with the same weapon sized for him. Weapon design is what does damage, not just size. Just look at a Kukuri. While technically a knife doing 1D6 damage in Palladium, you can easily remove a limb with a chop from one. Same with a small axe. It's still a weighted blade at the end of a lever.

[ShadowLogan]

Option 2: Half damage of the Human-sized equivalent, per page 295 of the Palladium Fantasy Second Edition main book in the Gnome write-up (Note 4 of "Other Notes"). The way I'd need to translate this is that 1D6 weapons inflict only 1D4 damage, 2D6+2 damage would be 1D6+1, and something like 3D6 would probably be 2D4.

Or for damage you could just divide the result by 2 since there are weapons that already are 1d4 or 1d6 weapons with a minimum damage value of 1.

Additionally I could see taking the conflicting statements and apply one to just "disposable" NPCs (#1) and the other for PCs (#2) and reoccurring/important NPCs.

Add that onto the fact Dwarves and Goblins (which can be as small as 3 ft) can use human-sized weapons without issue

This is true, however Gnomes are also much weaker than Dwarves and Goblins (before considering OCC/Skill bonuses) with a PS of 1d6+4, vs other player races in PF2E main book being at or better than human norm (3d6). A gnome strong man (max roll) is only average/just-below-average for every other race in the main book. By Weight Gnomes are also pretty light, which means human weapons are relatively "heavy" compared to the them, so physics might also make it difficult to control. So I can certainly see why Gnomes could have issue with wielding human size weapons at penalty and why their weapons do less damage.

Option 2 is a bit nonsensical as its a limited list of weapons
To use weapons such as spears, forks, pole arms, battle axes, and ball and chains, the weapon must be made gnome-sized (reduce the human equivalent by half)

Not sure I see it as a limited list, it does start of as "to use weapon such as" (emphasis mine), which indicates the list should not be viewed as complete but a starting point. If one wanted to extrapolate outward the common thing the list has is that those weapons are as tall or taller than the gnome, so I could see placing other weapons of that length type also being on the list (which is practically all of them).

I have to agree with Prysus though it does seem immersion breaking to use the 1E approach as having all their weapons be 1d4 or 1d6, if for no other reason than it makes the various weapons seem "generic" for a gnome, but more diverse for regulars/giants. I mean the only reason a gnome character has for using a battle axe over a two-headed axe in game is what, this is just an example? They both would do the same damage, and they both have the same reach, the only real difference then is in their weight. At least with the 2E approach the resulting differing damages might give a reason to pick A over B.

[kiralon]

@Whiskeyjack
A flamberge for a gnome would be half the length, half the breadth and half the depth, not just half the length and width (so a lot lighter), also held by something that weighs 9 to22 kg, Physically they would do less then half damage, and for the human centric world the damage difference would be negligible, it would be noticeable to the gnomes but not so much for the humans.

@Shadowlogan, I can easily see confusion from the statement, but they make a specific list, then say human sized weapons of this list are too big to use properly and get -6. From this statement I certainly wouldn't add swords and blunt to the -6 list as they are specifically left out as I think gnomes are supposed to be able to use them without negatives so they are more combat effective (like goblins and dwarfs). If it was supposed to be all weapons they would just say all weapons, as its easier to print.

To use weapons such as spears, forks, pole arms, battle axes, and ball and chains, the weapon must be made gnome-sized (reduce the human equivalent by half) and thus it does less damage (also half). Human-sized weapons of these types are just too large and awkward to use with any proficiency (-6 to strike, parry and dodge).

I think the second ed version is what is meant to be, I just don't like it myself, (Imagine a wall of gnome barbarian berserkers with normal sized flamberges charging down a hill at an army, until It got there it would be omg how cute, then it would be where did mah leg go)

[Reagren Wright]

If we go by half damage it means a Gnome using a short bow does 1D3 and a knife does 1D2? Come on Gnome should not be doing faerie folk
damage. Weapons damage should never drop below 1D4 unless it is a faerie folk weapons (meaning for those 1 foot tall or shorter). If a
gnome wields a human size dagger that does 1D6, he should be able to wield it like a short sword while a real short sword should be
considered a long sword. Gnome size weapons should reduce damage by 1D4 or 1D6 that's all.

[Whiskeyjack]

Kiralon, you're missing the fact that it is a cutting weapon. It doesn't need a ton of weight if it is designed and wielded correctly. A 5" knife can stick halfway through a body, easily reaching all internal organs.

[Prysus]

If we go by half damage it means a Gnome using a short bow does 1D3 and a knife does 1D2?

Greetings and Salutations. Human-sized knives inflict 1D6, so not sure why you went with 1D2. Setting that aside, I clearly stated how I'd interpret the half damage in my opening post. To restate: The way I'd need to translate this is that 1D6 weapons (such as Knives and Short Bows) would inflict only 1D4 damage, 2D6+2 (such as a lance and bastard sword) damage would be 1D6+1, and something like 3D6 (battle axe and claymore) would be 2D4.*

*For the Battle Axe, at level 2 they gain +1D6 from W.P. I'd translate this to 3D4 damage (adding 1 die). This puts the range from 3-12. A battle axe (at level 2) would inflict 4D6, and half of that is 2D6 which is a range from 2-12. So still right in the target range.

While not half exactly, it's the closest we can get with standard dice sets.

Come on Gnome should not be doing faerie folk
damage. Weapons damage should never drop below 1D4 unless it is a faerie folk weapons (meaning for those 1 foot tall or shorter).

Replacing Gnome damage with Faerie damage is not one of the official listed options, so not sure why you brought that up? While I have no intention of including such in the project I'm working on, if I did use a 1D4 weapon (such as darts and hand picks), I'd probably reduce it to only 1 point of damage. Those are already small items though, and they would not have much of a tip for damage though (a Gnome-sized weapon of either would be about 2 inches total, which includes things like the handle, so not much actual piercing damage).

If a
gnome wields a human size dagger that does 1D6, he should be able to wield it like a short sword while a real short sword should be
considered a long sword. Gnome size weapons should reduce damage by 1D4 or 1D6 that's all.

That's two votes for that house rule. While I have nothing against that rule (and I think I've even used as a G.M., but can't recall for sure), I will not be using house rules for this project. Unless, of course, you have an actual "official" source to back up that rule? Or did you vote for Option 1, which means you thin all damage should be reduced to 1D4 or 1D6 (so a flamberge, nunchaku, voulge, military fork, etc. all inflict 1D6 damage, while long spears, hercules clubs, battle axes, daggers, and short swords all inflict 1D4 damage)?

As of this post, the votes are ...

2 for all damage being only 1D4 or 1D6 total.
2 for reducing damage by half.
2 for house rules.**

**The voting poll shows only 1 vote here, but Reagren Wright looks like he's voting for house rules.

I'm genuinely curious how this will end. Thank you for your time and responses. Farewell and safe journeys.

[kiralon]

Kiralon, you're missing the fact that it is a cutting weapon. It doesn't need a ton of weight if it is designed and wielded correctly. A 5" knife can stick halfway through a body, easily reaching all internal organs.

They can, but designed and wielded correctly is a lot of supposition on the case of the wielder, especially if fighting someone in armour. A gnomish blade would be hard pressed to scratch metal armour
Remember gnomes are smaller (more than half) in 3 dimensions and not 2, a human size dagger would have an unusable grip and the blade would be twice as thick as gnome made dagger (so an edged club). The weapons are less then half in size and weight unless gnomes have human sized hands, and even then the weapons would be too heavy for their own body mass. Make a sword more than twice as thick as a normal sword and see how much heavier and unwieldy it would be.
Remember these guys come up to your knees/thighs.

[Prysus]

Remember gnomes are smaller (more than half) in 3 dimensions and not 2, a human size dagger would have an unusable grip and the blade would be twice as thick as gnome made dagger (so an edged club).

Remember these guys come up to your knees/thighs.

Greetings and Salutations. The size is a large variable to where they'd come up to on a person. Gnomes are listed from 2 foot to 2 1/2 feet. Humans are listed from 5 feet to 6 1/2 feet. Gnomes average about 2.5 times smaller than a human (though a tall Gnome and a short Human would be half the size). They might come up to knees, but they can also come up to pelvis or maybe even higher (depending on the two parties in question).

They're smaller, but don't underestimate small people. We don't let little kids play with knives because they can hurt themselves (and others) with them. Gnomes are also considerably stronger than kids that size (they have a minimum P.S. of 5, which is about half human average, and average about 7 or 8, and Palladium considers 9 human average).

The weapons are less then half in size and weight unless gnomes have human sized hands, and even then the weapons would be too heavy for their own body mass. Make a sword more than twice as thick as a normal sword and see how much heavier and unwieldy it would be.

Yes, it would be. But make a dagger about 2.5 times larger and it'll be right around the size of a short sword (in size AND weight), and I feel confident in saying humans CAN wield short swords despite them being heavier than daggers. Note: The thickness might still be an issue, but I will state now my house rule is if you're wielding a giant-sized one-handed weapon, it's a two handed weapon for you (and I consider a Gnome wielding a Human-sized weapon to be wielding a Giant-sized weapon). But that's a house rule, and not really part of this specific conversation.

A Voulge 2.5 times smaller (size and weight) is close to a Morning Star (2D6 damage). For cutting weapons, it could be similar to a Falchion (also 2D6), but sword would have about 50% more weight (though the sword may also have more metal). A Long Spear* (2D6 damage) is similar to a Short Staff* (1D6 damage), because the Short Spear* (also 1D6) is a bit heavier (but equivalent in length).

* These weapons do have a range of lengths, and not all lengths will work (but some do).

The comparisons above are not 100% flawless, but they're close. Of course, these are just for comparing weapon sizes and damages. Now, I understand that Gnomes would need to fight differently when fighting a human-sized opponent. Also, a Gnome using a human weapon might run into problems. However, the figures above suggest a Gnome-sized weapon is closer to about half damage of the human-sized weapon. Just to provide some actual numbers. Thanks for your time and feedback. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[kiralon]

I think for your character sheet option 2 would be best as it's closer to what's written, but doesn't ring as logical to me.
However
Gnomes might not use human equivalent proportions but I just assume they do, the weapons should be about 1/3 the weight and half the height, thickness and width if I remember the math correctly if proportions are the same, but second ed states by omission they can use human sized swords and blunt weapons without negatives so they likely have big hands. I just think half damage isn't proportional, they would be more like one leg (to just above the knee on average) in size then both legs.

On average gnomes weapons are a bit more than half shorter by average, and the weapon is (slightly) less than 1/3 the weight. I don't think 1/2 damage for weapons matches is all.

[ShadowLogan]

@kiralon
As I've said Gnomes are relatively weak compared to races only slightly larger than them (Dwarf and Goblin), an average Dwarf is 2.67x stronger than the average Gnome. That means an average Dwarf (Goblins are 1.4x) can put a lot more umpf into a swing/strike than a Gnome, which allows them to overcome their smaller stature and do damage closer to human-size norm.

I do think blunt weapons and large swords are going to be just as awkward for a Gnome to wield due to their relative size and weight/mass going off the listed weapons that give them trouble. Why should a 2.75ft and 4.6lb axe be to large and awkward, but a 3ft and 4.5lb sword not be? Or a spear 4ft long and 4lbs vs similar blunt weapon or sword?

[kiralon]

@kiralon
snip
I do think blunt weapons and large swords are going to be just as awkward for a Gnome to wield due to their relative size and weight/mass going off the listed weapons that give them trouble. Why should a 2.75ft and 4.6lb axe be to large and awkward, but a 3ft and 4.5lb sword not be? Or a spear 4ft long and 4lbs vs similar blunt weapon or sword?

I think it's more of an editing issue then anything, as you can see by the copy paste error of the weapons page from first ed. They didn't bother redoing the whole table, they just edited the weapon damage and pasted it in hoping people wouldn't notice?

If you want a laugh try and figure out what the priests turn dead really does affect. Look through the different monsters and blurbs about it.
My favourite is turn dead doesn't work on certain things because they are undead, not dead, but does sort of work on vampires who aren't dead or could be undead, but are alien intelligences. But does work on mummies in one book, unless you read the bit where it says it doesn't in another.

[Hendrik]

I know you're not looking for house rules, but I do the opposite of the giant sized. If a Titan is going to do 4D6 with a two handed sword instead of 3D6, it makes sense to me that a Gnome would do 2D6 with the same weapon sized for him. Weapon design is what does damage, not just size. Just look at a Kukuri. While technically a knife doing 1D6 damage in Palladium, you can easily remove a limb with a chop from one. Same with a small axe. It's still a weighted blade at the end of a lever.

I agree with Whiskeyjack. If Palladium ever was to make a 3rd edition, this would be one of the rules I would like to see.

That said.

I am following option 2 (Half Damage), so a gnome longsword would do 2D3 or 2D6/2 instead of 2D6, a gnome warhammer 3D4/2, etc.. I understand what you suggested, Prysus, i.e. to "downgrade" the dice differently, but I see no need for that as just dividing the rolled number by 2 is easy. Alternatively, I see no issue in rolling "D3"s or "D2"s. Rolling and then dividing the result has the advantage that a weapon doing 2D6+1 has damage would be "hard" to convert (2D3+o.5 ?) but rolling gives an easy result. Any fraction would be rounded mathematically.

Bonuses due to strength, magic, etc. would be as they are.

As to damage added due to W.P.s, such as the D6 for battle axes, I leave that as it is. A W.P. is skill with the weapon not the weapon (size), so I give any bonus, be that a +2 or a +1D6, as the rules say. I see no need to half that and the rules do not say it.

As to the rule on page 269 (option 1), I understand that to be the damage these weapons do in the hand of a human, but that is an interpretation.

[Soldier of Od]

Hi everybody,

I had this same issue come up recently when one of my players rolled up a gnome. He didn't actually mind either way, but, like you, Prysus, I disliked the fact that, by the rule on the weapons page, all these weapons that do quite different damages when human sized all did the same damage when gnome sized. just seems very limiting for the gnome character. So we went with half damage for all weapons. I also went for exactly the same interpretations as you have in all cases, right down to 1D4 instead of 1D6 and 2D4 instead of 3D6, and the same changes to the W.P. bonuses for axe and pole-arm (I was quite pleased when the axe damage plus W.P. bonus of 3D4 worked out nicely as half of 4D6!). I feel that no weapon should do less than 1D4 - a gnome shouldn't be doing less damage with his dagger than he would do with his fist! But this is all my own preference.

An alternative to this might be to try to follow both rules in so far as this is possible, using the rule on the weapons page as a basis, but say that the rule under the gnome description trumps it for those weapons listed. So:
All knives, short swords, blunt, staves, slings do 1D4. All large swords do 1D6.
But long spears do 1D6, military forks do 1D4+1, Tridents 1D6+1, most pole-arms do 1D6, 3D6/2 or 2D6, two-headed axes do 1D6, battle axes do 3D6/2, ball and chains do 1D4, mace and chains 3D6/2, etc.

But realistically, I think that the rule on the weapons page is just another copy and paste error. Most of the normal weapons damages were increased in second edition, but the gnomes note was not - Looks to me like it was simply missed.

[ShadowLogan]

@kiralon
snip
I do think blunt weapons and large swords are going to be just as awkward for a Gnome to wield due to their relative size and weight/mass going off the listed weapons that give them trouble. Why should a 2.75ft and 4.6lb axe be to large and awkward, but a 3ft and 4.5lb sword not be? Or a spear 4ft long and 4lbs vs similar blunt weapon or sword?

I think it's more of an editing issue then anything, as you can see by the copy paste error of the weapons page from first ed. They didn't bother redoing the whole table, they just edited the weapon damage and pasted it in hoping people wouldn't notice?

If you want a laugh try and figure out what the priests turn dead really does affect. Look through the different monsters and blurbs about it.
My favourite is turn dead doesn't work on certain things because they are undead, not dead, but does sort of work on vampires who aren't dead or could be undead, but are alien intelligences. But does work on mummies in one book, unless you read the bit where it says it doesn't in another.

Yeah Palladium Editing isn't the best. PF is not exception, examples exist in Rifts along with licensed lines like Robotech.

I took a look at TD for Priests.

[kiralon]

Slightly off topic I know but

Hi everybody,
a gnome shouldn't be doing less damage with his dagger than he would do with his fist! But this is all my own preference.

I agree, but in palladium, until you start getting magical/well made weapons, the most damaging attack you can do is a kick (Jump kick is 6d6 or 3d6 x2, flying jump kick is 4d6 x2).

[Prysus]

I agree with Whiskeyjack. If Palladium ever was to make a 3rd edition, this would be one of the rules I would like to see.

Greetings and Salutations. I agree it's a fine rule, and if player's wanted to use it I'd be fine running my home games with that rule.

That said.

I am following option 2 (Half Damage), so a gnome longsword would do 2D3 or 2D6/2 instead of 2D6, a gnome warhammer 3D4/2, etc.. I understand what you suggested, Prysus, i.e. to "downgrade" the dice differently, but I see no need for that as just dividing the rolled number by 2 is easy. Alternatively, I see no issue in rolling "D3"s or "D2"s. Rolling and then dividing the result has the advantage that a weapon doing 2D6+1 has damage would be "hard" to convert (2D3+o.5 ?) but rolling gives an easy result. Any fraction would be rounded mathematically.

I understand what you're saying, and that might work in a game, but I don't think it would work for the NPC Sheets I'm doing. First, D3 and D2 are not standard dice. While rolling a D6 and divide by 2 (round up) would be easy enough, I believe it would cause confusion or seem clunky to some. My goal with the NPC Sheet is make this as intuitive as possible, and when someone has to figure out how to handle something, it's a step in the wrong direction (in my opinion). Note: 3D3 is NOT half of 3D6, though it has a similar range. 3D3 has a range of 3-9, and 3D6 has a range of 3-18. While 9 is half of 8, 3 is NOT half of 3. This is a minor note however, and I don't believe there are any perfect solutions.

3D4/2 is a much clearer way to state the problem and make it so people can do so relatively easily. However, this once again comes back to my issue above of trying to make the NPC Sheet as clear and clean cut as possible. I want new and inexperienced Game Masters to be able to look at it and use the sheet with as little effort as possible (a common complaint against Palladium is how difficult it is to make characters and that some of the rules aren't very intuitive). So, something like a Bastard Sword would appear as: "(2D6+2)/2+5" (the plus 5 at the end is the strength, magical, or other modifier), or for a Battle Axe: "(3D6)/2+1D6+5". Those won't look very pretty (in my opinion), and it will involve a bit more math than some are comfortable with. I'm not sure about in Germany, but I know in the United States "math" has become a verb. "Mathing is hard" or "I mathed today" (said with great pride, or exhaustion). The more math involved, the more it'll push some away. So while that's accurate, I don't believe it'll follow the spirit of my project. In this case, I'll favor appealing to a wider audience (by keeping it as simple as possible) over accuracy (though I don't want to do with accuracy entirely).

Bonuses due to strength, magic, etc. would be as they are.

As to damage added due to W.P.s, such as the D6 for battle axes, I leave that as it is. A W.P. is skill with the weapon not the weapon (size), so I give any bonus, be that a +2 or a +1D6, as the rules say. I see no need to half that and the rules do not say it.

I agree with this, for the most part. The reason I'd use the 2D4 to 3D4 for a Battle Axe is more for cosmetics. "2D4+1D6+5" takes up more space and just doesn't look as pretty. For the Stone Axe (2D6 then reduced to 1D6), I left the 1D6 unchanged (which means that the bonus makes it 2D6, comparable to the 3D4 of the Battle Axe, which isn't my favorite but I can live with it).

To be clear (if I wasn't earlier), this is for my Excel based PF NPC Sheet, a companion to my Excel based PF Character Sheet. The PF NPC Sheet is designed to have ready made NPC from every playable race in the PF2 main book (from Human to Coyle), as well as every Men of Arms and Optional O.C.C. (as well as Warrior Monk). Due to the depth that would be involved, I've avoided Magic and Psychic O.C.C. at this time. Then, with just a few clicks, you can make any of the races and any of the available O.C.C. at any level (1-15) with a selection or preloaded weapons in less than a minute. With a few extra minutes you can customize weapon and armor selections, alter skills (with relative ease), or modify the minor psionic selections. For this, I need to have as much prepared (and as much as "Official" as possible) to be easy to use (and preferably to look cosmetically pleasing) for new gamers and those without much time.

Anyways, that's all for now. I appreciate all the feedback. I hope no one feels as if I'm trying to argue or dismiss their ideas. While I may not use them, I want to be clear on why and my purpose. Hopefully everyone can understand. Thank you. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Prysus]

Slightly off topic I know but

Hi everybody,
a gnome shouldn't be doing less damage with his dagger than he would do with his fist! But this is all my own preference.

I agree, but in palladium, until you start getting magical/well made weapons, the most damaging attack you can do is a kick (Jump kick is 6d6 or 3d6 x2, flying jump kick is 4d6 x2).

Greetings and Salutations. I figure a Power Roundhouse Kick (also 3D6x2) would be better. It's as good as a Jump Kick, can be taken at an earlier level, and only uses up 2 attacks and you only can't use more kicks for the rest of the round (but can still attack). You also have the potential to critical, meaning even more damage. The Jump Kicks* don't allow you to attack at all and equivalent to a standard Jump Kick.

Also, I've always been unclear if Flying Jump Kick is meant to be 4D6 or 4D6x2. The section discusses jump kicks being automatic criticals. In the damage section it mentions 3D6x2 for the standard Jump Kick, and then in the Jump Kick section it lists total damage including critical as 6D6, followed by the 4D6 of Flying Jump Kick (so the Flying Jump Kick may just be 2D6x2 for 4D6 total).

Some of that may just be personal preference, but I figured I'd bring both points up (since one of them discussing editing issues). Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[kiralon]

I always assumed the flying jump kick was the more powerful of the 2 as it took 2 actions (only means less dodges mind you) but you could also interpret the jump kick being 6d6 x2 because jump kick are criticals which is x2 and 3d6x2 ≠ 6d6.

My other favourite editing issue for second ed is magic casting in hth combat. You cant do it, (so no mixing casting and parrying and dodging and physical attacking) and if you take damage/pain you have a 1-90% chance of a spell being disrupted.
Its not so much and issue with the wording for this but the location of the rule.

First ed favourite is the PS of the phantom from the air spell. That is just a typing error (PS: 221, take that gods, the phantom can rip your limbs clean off)

[Axelmania]

The way I'd need to translate this is that 1D6 weapons inflict only 1D4 damage

Why not just do 1d6/2 rounded down? I think we should probable halve punches/kicks for them too.