demihumans and vampires

[Kinghawke]

can demihumans like Bearmen, Trolls, Goblins, etc be turned into vampires?

[Library Ogre]

Nothing I know of says they can't.

[The Beast]

If you have the revised version of Vampire Kingdoms page 19 has a list on what creatures can be turned into a vampire. Granted it's written for Rifts, but some of it is useful in other settings.

So out of the three there, the only one I would question is the goblin. If they're mortals they can be turned. If they're Creatures of Magic (due to being cousins to fairy folk) then they'd be immune to conversion.

[Whiskeyjack]

I always kind of shiver when I think of a Wolfen vampire.

[kiralon]

Imagine finding a horde of vampiric gnomes running around ancient underground ruins.

[Warshield73]

Imagine finding a horde of vampiric gnomes running around ancient underground ruins.

A crawl into mines full of vampire dwarves with low ceilings and narrow passages has been a dream of mine for almost 20 years but I have never had a good opportunity to use it. But, I have to say the vampire gnomes actually sounds better to me.

I haven't had a chance to read it yet but I believe there is some official material with Wolfen Vampires in Rifter 81.

[Father Goose]

Imagine finding a horde of vampiric gnomes running around ancient underground ruins.

A crawl into mines full of vampire dwarves with low ceilings and narrow passages has been a dream of mine for almost 20 years but I have never had a good opportunity to use it. But, I have to say the vampire gnomes actually sounds better to me.

I haven't had a chance to read it yet but I believe there is some official material with Wolfen Vampires in Rifter 81.

That is truly terrifying. I'm so disturbed, I think I will borrow it.

[Library Ogre]

Thinking on it, I would say the minimum requirement for being a vampire should be "able to be, but not yet, a witch."

[Warshield73]

Thinking on it, I would say the minimum requirement for being a vampire should be "able to be, but not yet, a witch."

I think your probably right but do we have a comprehensive list of races that can be Witch?

[Library Ogre]

Thinking on it, I would say the minimum requirement for being a vampire should be "able to be, but not yet, a witch."

I think your probably right but do we have a comprehensive list of races that can be Witch?

No, but we can look at those which don't have witch as an OCC which they can be, which should give us a good idea of which can be a witch.

[eliakon]

Thinking on it, I would say the minimum requirement for being a vampire should be "able to be, but not yet, a witch."

I think your probably right but do we have a comprehensive list of races that can be Witch?

No, but we can look at those which don't have witch as an OCC which they can be, which should give us a good idea of which can be a witch.

I am not sure that there is any race that is banned from becoming a Witch. Just because an OCC is not on the main list for a race doesn't mean it is prohibited, just that it isn't common. A race is only truly banned from a class if it explicitly say it is. We know this because if nothing else it would mean that all classes in additional books could not be taken by any race as they are not on the permitted class list.

As for becoming a Vampire I would presume that the same rule that is in place in Rifts would be in place here since they are identical vampires.

[kiralon]

I am not sure that there is any race that is banned from becoming a Witch. Just because an OCC is not on the main list for a race doesn't mean it is prohibited, just that it isn't common. A race is only truly banned from a class if it explicitly say it is. We know this because if nothing else it would mean that all classes in additional books could not be taken by any race as they are not on the permitted class list.

As for becoming a Vampire I would presume that the same rule that is in place in Rifts would be in place here since they are identical vampires.

The OCC's listed are usually any and maybe with some certain limitations, like dwarves can't be magic users, which allows the extra classes to be taken, except for a lot of the evil races which have a lot smaller lists and troglodyte which I think are about the most limited. except ogres can be anything, so of the main starting races only the troglodyte can't be a witch.

[Zer0 Kay]

I like the thought that the old VK book conjured with all vampires appear to be human. So that means according the VK 1E that if a centaur gets turned he loses his horsey parts and get two humany legs.

[kiralon]

Vampiric Beast Dragon anyone, 3 vampiric heads attached to one body.

[Zer0 Kay]

Vampiric Beast Dragon anyone, 3 vampiric heads attached to one body.

That's easy... it just takes a little stitching...

[Library Ogre]

I am not sure that there is any race that is banned from becoming a Witch. Just because an OCC is not on the main list for a race doesn't mean it is prohibited, just that it isn't common. A race is only truly banned from a class if it explicitly say it is. We know this because if nothing else it would mean that all classes in additional books could not be taken by any race as they are not on the permitted class list.

As for becoming a Vampire I would presume that the same rule that is in place in Rifts would be in place here since they are identical vampires.

I tend to view the list as being a hard line, transgressable only by GM fiat. So, for example, troglodytes don't have witch listed, so, in usual context, cannot become witches.

[eliakon]

I am not sure that there is any race that is banned from becoming a Witch. Just because an OCC is not on the main list for a race doesn't mean it is prohibited, just that it isn't common. A race is only truly banned from a class if it explicitly say it is. We know this because if nothing else it would mean that all classes in additional books could not be taken by any race as they are not on the permitted class list.

As for becoming a Vampire I would presume that the same rule that is in place in Rifts would be in place here since they are identical vampires.

I tend to view the list as being a hard line, transgressable only by GM fiat. So, for example, troglodytes don't have witch listed, so, in usual context, cannot become witches.

The Troglodyte says that they are limited to <list of classes> so for them it IS a hard line.
But any race that does NOT say that it is limited? Then the logic breaks down because as I pointed out it negates the additional classes that are added in later books because they are not on the lists.
So either those classes are not really available to be taken by most races.. which is absurd, or the lists are not hard and fast red lines unless they say that they are hard and fast red lines.
This is especially important because we note that Dwarves are said to not be able to take magic OCCs... but then we find that no, they can take them, they just don't for social reasons.

None of which has any bearing on if you can become a vampire.
Vampirism has nothing to do with being a witch in any way, shape or form and we know that races that can be witches can not be vampires and vice versa... ergo we can't use this as the standard.

[The Beast]

I have to agree with eliakon that using a species' ability to become a witch as a means for determining if they can be a vampire is a poor idea.

[Whiskeyjack]

If they are a mortal being, without being a creature of magic, or supernatural, then they can become a vampire. So I'd probably exclude goblins, but orcs, trolls, kobolds can all become vampires.

[kiralon]

I am not sure that there is any race that is banned from becoming a Witch. Just because an OCC is not on the main list for a race doesn't mean it is prohibited, just that it isn't common. A race is only truly banned from a class if it explicitly say it is. We know this because if nothing else it would mean that all classes in additional books could not be taken by any race as they are not on the permitted class list.

As for becoming a Vampire I would presume that the same rule that is in place in Rifts would be in place here since they are identical vampires.

I tend to view the list as being a hard line, transgressable only by GM fiat. So, for example, troglodytes don't have witch listed, so, in usual context, cannot become witches.

The Troglodyte says that they are limited to <list of classes> so for them it IS a hard line.
But any race that does NOT say that it is limited? Then the logic breaks down because as I pointed out it negates the additional classes that are added in later books because they are not on the lists.
So either those classes are not really available to be taken by most races.. which is absurd, or the lists are not hard and fast red lines unless they say that they are hard and fast red lines.
This is especially important because we note that Dwarves are said to not be able to take magic OCCs... but then we find that no, they can take them, they just don't for social reasons.

None of which has any bearing on if you can become a vampire.
Vampirism has nothing to do with being a witch in any way, shape or form and we know that races that can be witches can not be vampires and vice versa... ergo we can't use this as the standard.

But the fact that they have any for some of them can take new things and the others can't canonly speaking, it's likely that it was an oversight, but unless you know for sure it might have been done on purpose especially considering the game is very humancentric. Humans can do everything, everyone else is a poor second cousin, and getting poorer the further away from human you go, and there is nothing stopping them from putting in the later books the things that can take them, they did that with the skills in first ed so it is something they know how to do, so if there is an OCC that came out later and it doesn't mention who can take it, palladiums work flow has made it that only a certain group will be able to take it without house rules and/or gm fiat, so I wouldn't allow it (Well unless the player had a really good backstory, im a sucker for good backstories) and canonly speaking, isn't allowed. If they hadn't shown instances of being later release aware id be more for it, but they have been and you can only assume they did it that way on purpose, just like everything else. As to what can be a vampire, if there is a rule in palladium that says you cant be a vampire, then you can't, otherwise you are fair game. I myself make a decision on whether the creature has an afterlife or not. if not, then can't be a vampire. Being magical wouldn't be enough.

Or in short form, what if that is the way they are supposed to be.

[Whiskeyjack]

How exactly do you determine what creatures can have an afterlife? I can't recall the concept of an afterlife every being presented in PF.

[kiralon]

Mostly my ideas on whether the creatures are intelligent enough to think they have an afterlife, or want an afterlife or have gods, but there are exceptions to the rules, fairies for example, they can't because they become one with the world on death even though they have gods.
I'd allow vampiric dragons for example, but the vampire making him has to drain him in one go, so the vampire trying to make a dragon vampire would want to be very hungry.
The fact that vamps are mostly attracted to pretty humans and elves first tends to make it a point that I don't have to think about very often.

[Whiskeyjack]

So the embodiment of magic (dragons) can be made into a vampire, but a magical creature (faerie) can't? How exactly to faeries become one with the world after death?
I can't ever recall reading that vampires are mostly attracted to elves and humans. I think it has more to do with human writers/players carrying over vampire legends from human history and not being overly creative.

[Prysus]

I can't ever recall reading that vampires are mostly attracted to elves and humans. I think it has more to do with human writers/players carrying over vampire legends from human history and not being overly creative.

Greetings and Salutations. In Rifts, Vampire Kingdoms, there's some mention of their preference to humans. In Palladium Fantasy, Western Empire has this quote ...

However, most seem to be attracted to humans, elves, and other handsome races ...

One reason given for humans being a common target is also abundance and ease of target. The paragraph goes on to include limitations ...

... never a fellow demon or other supernatural being or creature of magic (dragon, sphinx, Faerie Folk, and similar creatures cannot be turned into Undead Vampires).

Just wanted to provide some PF sources for the information. Have a great day. Farewell and safe journeys.

[kiralon]

Truth be told I don't like second ed vampires. I much prefer first ed's classic vampire rather than vampires being finger puppets of alien entities.

[Warshield73]

I'd allow vampiric dragons for example, but the vampire making him has to drain him in one go, so the vampire trying to make a dragon vampire would want to be very hungry.
The fact that vamps are mostly attracted to pretty humans and elves first tends to make it a point that I don't have to think about very often.

Even though the rules so no creatures of magic I have had a few as NPCs over the years in PF and Rifts. But I only allow them to be created by the Vampire Intelligence and they are basically a secondary vamp but they still have the powers of that race. I mainly did this because I wanted them to come across a Sphinx at night and they join him around a camp fire. As they talked I had a bunch of vamps surround them and as they were preparing to fight the vamps the Sphinx revealed herself to be a vampire. It really ticked them off and amused me to no end.

[Axelmania]

Where does this term demihuman appear? I can't remember seeing it. Does it mean humanoid?

[Kinghawke]

Where does this term demihuman appear? I can't remember seeing it. Does it mean humanoid?

demihuman is nonsupernatural humanoids. it's a common fantasy term, but not mentioned in the books per se.

[kiralon]

Its a dnd term for halflings, elves, dwarves, things that can pass as a human mostly or lives in human society.

[eliakon]

How exactly do you determine what creatures can have an afterlife? I can't recall the concept of an afterlife every being presented in PF.

The GM has to make that up out of whole cloth because there is absolutely NOTHING in canon about the afterlife in the game.
We do not know if it exists or not.
The closest we know is that
1) you can mess around with 'souls' via soul drinking... but that may or may not actually be the real soul due to various reasons
2) there is some indication that Rifts China has an afterlife that may or may not apply to people and that may or may not apply to others that may or may not use the actual soul or something similar
3) That Utu is linked to 'the flow of souls' and is tied to getting them to their proper place and that the Gods can only resurrect souls that are 'where they are supposed to be' whatever that is

Other than that? Total rule zero territory.

[Axelmania]

It's almost implied not to exist with Warriors of Valhalla being living beings rather than ghosts in Pantheons of the Megaverse.

The best explanation for an Afterlife is if you die and you please your god, he'll resurrect you in the next dimension to live a new life or something.

I'm not really sure how that would work in regards to the requirement of a corpse though. Maybe gods have a way of constructing a faux corpse to leave behind to fill your grave while using your swapped real body to animate in their pocket dimension?

[kiralon]

As eliakon has asaid, Utu can stop the flow of souls and prevent resurrection.

Where did the universe come from? What happens when we
die? Why do some people live, while others die?
For the people of the Palladium world, the obvious answers
seem to lie with the gods. The gods created the world, the gods
take our souls when we die (to reward, to punish, to recycle,
etc.), the gods bless some, curse others,"- and speak to their
priests.

So it does seem to indicate they take our souls to the realms they live in, but it hasn't been mentioned why. Only living beings generate PPE, and the number of the dead will always outnumber the living. I think the gods of light do it to get soldiers for their god battles on other planes, and if this is the case what happens to the dead if they get "killed" again.

[Axelmania]

the number of the dead will always outnumber the living

Unless of course some deities go around cursing everything living with immortality so nobody dies of old age anymore and just start having crazy amounts of babies.

[kiralon]

I have a different afterlife for each of the religions (basically the afterlife that the religion had in real life + some modifications, like they all have to pass through the river of the dead, some have to cross, some have to go downstream)