So, since my thread in the Rifts forum was less helpful to me that I had hoped, I am continuing the conversation here...
Right now I have figured out the numerical systems for mass combat, as well as all of the organizational skills necessary for the units to perform in single combat as well as extended conflicts.
Now I am working on the terrain types and modifiers for the system.
Query, how much differentiation would a person like/should there be. Urban environments are pretty easy to figure out, as well as elevation changes, LOS, weather, etc. but how about natural biomes? Should it be just woodlands or should there be a mechanical difference between triple canopy jungle and old growth forests? Same thing for swamps and marshes, etc.
Once I get some feedback for that (or I just wing it with a few playtests) then I can start on actually making the 2D terrain sets. Lamination galore!
Finally I can start making units.
Does anyone know what the unit symbology would be for Powered Armor troops, Mecha, Veritechs, etc.? Since I am making this to accommodate mass combat up to Corps+ level, I am going to use symbols instead of miniatures since the ranges can extend up to several hundred miles via TBMs and airstrikes.
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:45 pm
by slade the sniper
Ok, so because I love to read my own posts....
Right now I have set up approx 5 types of most terrain with elevation permutations and weather for a total of ~ 206 pre-made terrain cards. I know how the map board is getting set up and am waiting to pick up the last bits of things I need to make physical items. Ugh.
The good thing is that the mental parts are already done and thus I am putting them here. Once I make more progress, I will continue to type to myself.
-STS
A GM tool for mass combat
The following are the aspects of each unit and rules of the game.
Offense is the total base attacking power of the unit. This is generally based upon the type of unit. Defense is the total base defensive power of the unit. This is generally based upon the type of unit.
Size is the total size (in personnel) of the unit. There are some exceptionally powerful units that receive a bonus to size to account for their power in spite of their small numbers. When there is a modifier, it is placed inside of parenthesis. IF a unit has a + or a – after the size it is Reinforced or Reduced. A Reinforced unit gets a +1 to either Offense or Defense, a Reduced unit gets a -1 to either Offense or Defense. Damage is equal to the Offense x Size of the unit. Resilience is equal to the Defense x Size of the unit.
Leadership – measuring the ability of the leaders to inspire their troops Medical/ Administration/ Recruiting– measuring the ability of the unit to care for and replace their troops Perception/ Intelligence – measuring the ability of the unit to gain, retain and use information to their benefit Tactics/ Operations/ Strategy – this measures the ability of the unit to follow orders in the heat of battle Equipment/ Logistics – the ability of the unit to supply themselves during battle Planning – the unit’s ability to plan accordingly to their enemy and the environment Teamwork/ Communications/ Information – the ability to communicate clearly and effectively in spite of conflict Morale/ Training – the morale of the unit and the training they undergo Environment/ Engineering – the unit’s ability to use the environment and engineering to their benefit Persuasion/ Negotiations/ Diplomacy – The ability of the unit to gain allies and keep enemies out of the battle
Speed is the speed of the unit in combat. Range is the longest-range weapon of the unit.
Notes are things that are important for the understanding of the unit such as whether it flies, is naval or etc. This is also where any additional skills would be denoted.
There are five levels of realism/simulation that are tied to these values. The first level is the most simple and abstract. If the offense of the unit is higher than the defense of the opposing unit, the first unit wins. If a unit A with a 2 offense and a 3 defense fights a unit B with a 4 offense and a 3 defense, you compare the offense and defense of each unit, 2 vs 3 and a 4 vs 3. In that case the second unit defeats the first unit because its offense of 4 is larger than the defense of 3, and the 2 offense of the first unit is not enough to overcome the 3 defense of the second unit.
The second level adds in some uncertainty into the conflict so that it is no longer strictly a numbers game. You divide the offense of the first unit by the defense of the second, then multiply that by 50%. Offense 2 vs Defense of 3 = 2/3 = 66.6% x .5 = 33.3 = 33%. That means the first unit has a 33% chance of defeating the second unit. Offense 4 vs Defense of 3 = 4/3 = 133% x .5 = 66.6% rounded up to 67%. The second unit has a 67% change of defeating the first unit. The first and second player both roll d%, and it is possible that both units survive or both die, instead of a simple neat victory.
The third level introduces the concept of attrition. Offense x Size = Damage, and Defense x Size = Resilience. In the case of a unit (A) with offense 4, defense 5, size 7 it would a damage of 28 and a resilience of 35. Another unit (B) has an offense of 7, defense 7 and size 6 would have a damage of 42 and a resilience of 42 as well.
Unit A vs Unit B equals offense 4 divided by defense 7 = 57% x .5 = 28.5% = 29% of Unit A damaging Unit B. Unit B has a offense 7 divided by defense 5 = 140% x .5 = 70% chance of damaging Unit A. If Unit A rolls less than 29% against Unit B, then it will inflict 28 damage against the 42 resilience of Unit B. That will leave Unit B with a resilience of 14. If Unit B rolls under 70% it will inflict 42 damage against the 35 resilience of unit A. 35 – 42 = -7. That -7 means that Unit A has been disrupted and loses some capability. Unit A loses 1 from their Offense, Defense and Size. That makes Unit A have an Offense of 3, a Defense of 4 and a Size of 6, which subsequently reduces the Damage to 18 and Resilience to 24. Since there was still 7 points of damage left over, that is now subtracted from the Resilience of 24 to make it 17.
If, for some reason the commander of Unit A wishes to continue to fight, to damage Unit B, Unit A will have to roll below Offense of 3 divided by the Defense of 7 = 42.8 x .5 = 21.4%. Unit B will have to roll under Offense of 7 divided by Defense of 4 = 1.75 x .5 = 87.5% rounded up to 88%. The Resilience of Unit B remains what it was previously, it does NOT reset each round.
For the sake of example, if Unit A does succeed in damaging B, and B does NOT succeed in damaging A, then unit B would lose an additional 18 points of resilience, which reduces that to -4, disrupting Unit B. Unit B would then lose 1 from Offense, Defense and Size, recalculating the Damage and Resilience. The remaining 4 points of damage are then subtracted from the new Resilience. The new percentages for combat are now recalculated for both Unit A and Unit B.
By adding some additional details, the game is expanded to cover more than combat. These additional facets are used to measure various skills that are needed to successfully conduct combat operations over time instead of only solitary skirmishes. Some of these are known by different names depending on the size of the unit, but they all measure the same factors but are NOT interchangeable. These skills are described above and include Leadership, Medical/ Administration/ Recruiting, Perception/ Intelligence, Tactics/ Operations/ Strategy, Equipment/ Logistics, Planning, Teamwork/ Communications/ Information, Morale/ Training, Environment/ Engineering, and Persuasion/ Negotiations/ Diplomacy.
Each of these are measured as a percentage. Before a battle, the unit rolls to see if they gain any bonuses by rolling under the skill percentage. As a unit takes damage, each of the percentages is reduced by 10% until the unit no longer gains any bonus from that skill. Leadership grants a bonus of +1 to Offense AND Defense. All of the other skills grant a +1 to either Offense OR Defense as chosen by the player.
As an example, a unit has a 62% logistics skill. The player rolls a 44%. The unit gets a +1 to either offense or defense as the player chooses. The player chooses a +1 to defense. Let us say the player loses a combat and due to that, the new logistics skill is now 52% (-10% due to a loss in the unit’s size). The bonus of +1 is still there due to the 44% still being under the new skill level of 52%. The player can shift that +1 to offense or keep it in defense. If the unit takes damage again and loses another -10% in skill, it will be a 42%. As the roll of 44% is higher than the new skill of 42%, the +1 bonus is now lost for this round.
If a unit with ends up with a negative modifier larger than the number rolled, such a unit rolls a 32% in logistics and eventually ends up with a -40% due to combat, then that unit will have a -1 to either offense or defense since the 32 is less than the -40%.
The final level of simulation is added by the use of a map, which utilizes Range and Speed as tactical variables. The scale of these combats can range from 1 inch equals 5’ or 2 meters individual warriors and small teams, all the way up to 1” equals 100,000 km on a side. When using a map (or terrain), the units may be denoted by either counters or miniatures, depending on the desire of the players. Each map square will be denoted with any specific rules that affect units, and brings into effect line of sight rules for small units. When using a map, terrain becomes a consideration for both range, speed, LOS and Indirect fire.
Notes are where specific information about the unit is noted that may come up in the game and any changes to the basic rules above.
Creating a Battlefield. What sort of mission are you trying to play Step 1, place the Main Objective card down (determined from the mission type) Step 2, lay a terrain type and determine density, elevation, obstacle or wall
Terrain has a type (urban 2, forest 2, grassland 1, Paved 0, etc.) Terrain has a density (open 0, close 1, dense 2, obstacle X, wall X) Terrain has an elevation (depression 2, low 1, flat 0, rise 1, high 2)
A paved, open, flat area gives NO modifiers to range, speed or defense.
The words are for description so that you can have a forest with close growth in a depression. The numbers act as divisors for both range and speed. For example a forest (2) with close (1) growth in a depression (2) will have a modifier of 2 + 1 + 2 = 5. That means that the range of weapons and speed are 1/6th what they normally are (since the 5 + 1 = 6). This number ALSO adds to the defense of units, so that the previous unit will have a +6 to its defense.
An obstacle has a number next to it which is the number of combat turns it will take to cross it. A wall acts the same as an obstacle, but it also blocks LOS.
Line of Sight now plays a role as well. Open terrain does not block line of sight. You have a LOS of 1 for close terrain, meaning that you can see through 1 square of close terrain and engage targets on the far side. Dense terrain you can only engage targets in the adjacent square. Walls block LOS and thus can not be attacked into or through. Smoke can also block LOS.
Indirect Fire (IDF) is a subset of Offense which is noted by a number inside of parenthesis with an I in the Offense line, such as Offense 6 (5I) which means that the unit has a normal Offense of 6, but can use an Offense of 5 even if it does not have LOS but still within range of a target, but another unit does, with a successful Communications roll of the unit who LOS. If the units are in the SAME Square both units lose all defensive benefits for their position.
Cut out some Random Shapes Types include Urban 1, Urban 2, Grassland 1, Grassland 2, Forest 1, Forest 2, Flatlands 0, Swamp 1, Swamp 2 Density Open 0, Close 1, Dense 2 Depression 2, Depression 1, Flat 0, Elevation 1, Elevation 2 Obstacle/Wall X
Weather also plays a role: Light Rain 1 Heavy Rain 2 Light Snow 1 Heavy Snow 2 Daytime 0 Night time 1 Bitterly Cold 1 Extremely Hot 1
Each of which will have Elevation of -2, -1, 0, 1, 2 for a total of Woodlands x 30 cards Urban x 30 buildings, town, village, suburban, city, sprawl Grassland x 30 grassland, Prairie, tall grassland prairie, Shrublands, Scrub, chaparral Mountains x 30 volcano, alpine, rolling hills, Karst, scree, Swamp x 18 (only for elevation -2, -1 and 0) Marsh x 18 (only for elevation -2, -1 and 0) Desert x 5 (only for the elevation changes)
10 x river 10 x road 10 x water 10 x obstacles
5 x weather
Should flatlands have any cards? What sort of Objective Cards should there be?
Total cards are 30 x 4 = 120 + 36 = 156 terrain, + 40 other cards = 196 cards + 5 weather = 201 cards in a total set (without flatlands) +5 desert = 206
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:33 pm
by Peacebringer
Reminds me of Chome-Berets a bit: I like the Large Unit Resolution in RR; it works!
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:00 am
by slade the sniper
I was trying to pull the good bits out of various systems, and Chrome Berets was definitely in that list.
What is RR?
Here is a list of all the types of units I have made so far (the formatting of this board is not so good.)
Spoiler:
Type Class Example Scale Militia Light Gangs Individual Militia Medium Terrorists Individual Militia Heavy Hezbollah Individual Infantry Light Small Arms Individual Infantry Medium GPMG's Individual Infantry Heavy AT weapons Individual Infantry Very Heavy Full Body Armor Individual Infantry Super Heavy MD Body Armor Individual Elite Light Contractors Individual Elite Medium Modern Infantry Individual Elite White SOF Medium + White SOF Individual Elite Black SOF Heavy - Black SOF Individual Elite Heavy ODST Individual Motorized Militia Light Gangs Vehicle Motorized Militia Medium Terrorists Vehicle Motorized Militia Heavy Hezbollah Vehicle Motorized Infantry Light Cars Vehicle Motorized Infantry Medium Trucks Vehicle Motorized Infantry Heavy Armored Vehicle Motorized Elite Light Small Arms Vehicle Motorized Elite Medium GPMG's Vehicle Motorized Elite Heavy AT weapons Vehicle Mechanized Infantry Light APCs Vehicle Mechanized Infantry Medium Upgunned APCs Vehicle Mechanized Infantry Heavy IFVs Vehicle Mechanized Infantry Elite Light APCs Vehicle Mechanized Infantry Elite Medium Upgunned APCs Vehicle Mechanized Infantry Elite Heavy IFVs Vehicle Power Armor Light Battletech PAL Individual Power Armor Medium Battletech PAM Individual Power Armor Heavy Battletech PAH Individual Power Armor Elite Light Mjolnir IV Individual Power Armor Elite Medium Mjolnir V Individual Power Armor Elite Medium + Cyclone Individual Power Armor Elite Heavy SAMAS Individual Power Armor Elite Very Heavy Ultimax Individual Power Armor Elite Super Heavy Glitter boy Individual Adeptus Scout Light Scout Armor Individual Adeptus Astartes Medium Astartes Armor Individual Adeptus Veterans Medium Astartes Armor Individual Adeptus Astartes Captain Medium Iron Halo Individual Adeptus Terminator Heavy Terminator Armor Individual Tank Light RHA Vehicle Tank Medium Heavy RHA Vehicle Tank Heavy Modern MBT Vehicle Tank Very Heavy 100 tons Vehicle Tank Super Heavy Baneblade Vehicle Grav Tank Light RL grav Vehicle Grav Tank Medium RL grav Vehicle Grav Tank Heavy RL grav Vehicle Bolo Super Light MK I to VI Vehicle Bolo Very Light Mk VI to X Vehicle Bolo Light Mk XI to XV Vehicle Bolo Medium MK XVI to XX Vehicle Bolo Heavy Mk XXI to XXV Vehicle Bolo Very Heavy Mk XXVI to XXIX Vehicle Bolo Super Heavy MK XXX Vehicle Protomech Super Light Protomechs Vehicle Very Light Mech Very Light Very Light Mech/Proto Mech Vehicle VF-1 Veritechs Very Light+ VF-1 Veritechs Vehicle Light Mech Light IK Armiger/Locust vehicle RDF Destroids Light RDF Destroids Vehicle Medium Mech Medium IK Questoris vehicle Heavy Mech Heavy IK Cerastus vehicle Assault Mech Very Heavy Atlas/IK Dominus vehicle Superheavy Mech Super Heavy IK Acastus Vehicle Walker Super Light AT-RT Vehicle Walker Very Light AT-ST/Sentinels Vehicle Walker light AT-TE Vehicle Walker Medium Vehicle Walker Heavy AT-AT Vehicle Walker Very Heavy AT-M6 Vehicle Walker Super Heavy Vehicle Light Titan Light Warhound/MAC II Vehicle Medium Titan Medium Medium Titan/ Reaver Vehicle Heavy Titan Heavy Warlord vehicle Assault Titan Very Heavy Imperator vehicle Fighter Light Jets Vehicle Fighter Medium Gen 4 vehicle Fighter Heavy Gen 5 Vehicle Bomber Light Jets Vehicle Bomber Medium Gen 4 vehicle Bomber Heavy Gen 5 Vehicle Ship Light Age of Sail Cutter Ship Light Age of Sail Corvette Ship Light Age of Sail Destroyer Ship Light Age of Sail Frigate Ship Light Age of Sail Cruiser Ship Light Age of Sail Battleship Ship Light Age of Sail Carrier Ship Medium WWI/WWII Cutter Ship Medium WWI/WWII Corvette Ship Medium WWI/WWII Destroyer Ship Medium WWI/WWII Frigate Ship Medium WWI/WWII Cruiser Ship Medium WWI/WWII Battleship Ship Medium WWI/WWII Carrier Ship Heavy Modern Cutter Ship Heavy Modern Corvette Ship Heavy Modern Destroyer Ship Heavy Modern Frigate Ship Heavy Modern Cruiser Ship Heavy Modern Battleship Ship Heavy Modern Carrier Spaceships Light Star Trek Cutter Spaceships Light Star Trek Corvette Spaceships Light Star Trek Destroyer Spaceships Light Star Trek Frigate Spaceships Light Star Trek - Constitution Cruiser Spaceships Light Star Trek - Galaxy class Battleship Spaceships Light Battlestar Galactica - Battlestar Galactica Carrier Spaceships Medium Star Wars Cutter Spaceships Medium Star Wars Corvette Spaceships Medium Star Wars Destroyer Spaceships Medium Star Wars - Nebulon B Frigate Spaceships Medium Star Wars MC-80 Cruiser Spaceships Medium Star Wars - Star Destroyer Battleship Spaceships Medium Star Wars - Eclipse Carrier Spaceships Heavy 40K Cutter Spaceships Heavy USS Defiant Corvette Spaceships Heavy 40K Destroyer Spaceships Heavy 40K Frigate Spaceships Heavy 40K - Cruiser Cruiser Spaceships Heavy Battleship 40K - Grand Cruiser Battleship Spaceships Heavy Carrier 40K - Battleship Carrier Aerospace Fighter Super Light Tie Fighter Vehicle Aerospace Fighter Very Light BSG Viper Vehicle Aerospace Fighter Light A Wing Vehicle Aerospace Fighter Medium X Wing Vehicle Aerospace Fighter Heavy Y Wing Vehicle Aerospace Fighter Heavy B Wing Vehicle Aerospace Fighter Heavy Star Wars Fighters - Valkyrie Vehicle
I even have the "costs" figured out as well...2 points for an untrained gang member and 816,480 points for a post-human heavy space carrier.
Work progresses!
-STS
edit: So, I added in knights and helicopters (can't believe I forgot those).
The next part is how to build up actual combined arms forces, such as a company of grav tanks, with some heavy mortars in support (oh, wait, now I need to add in all the different types of indirect fire), how to do that? Make it a combined unit for fewer rolls, OR have each unit roll for it's own attack?
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:52 pm
by Peacebringer
RR is Revised Recon; I've been to White Wolf's forums and I got in the habit of abbreviating RPG-books; CP:2020, CB, would be, "Cyberpunk 2020: Chrome-Berets.
BTW: I've always disagreed with Starship Troopers and Star-Trek on naming spaceships after naval units; i.e., destroyers, cutters, carriers etc. Space is the realm of the USAF and any space war vessels will be named after air-force designations.
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:07 am
by slade the sniper
Ah, ok. I also have visited the WW forums on occasion. Well, back when it it was OWOD.
As for naming space units, what would you name them?
As for the AF controlling space, well, not anymore. Space Command is here! Granted, it is an AF type, but they will probably have to do a round robin of commanders until Space Command builds its own roster of GO's.
I also added in all types of artillery, including black powder artillery. I redid some calcs (for Palladium, not Recon) for black powder cannons and came up to: 4 pounder 2d10 x 10 damage 6 pounder 4d6 x 10 damage 9 pounder 3d10 x 10 damage 12 pounder 6d6 x 10 damage 18 pounder 1d4 x 100 damage 24 pounder 5d10 x 10 damage 32 pounder 1d6 x 100 damage 42 pounder 1d6 x 100 + 1d6 x 10 or 11d6 x 10 64 pounder 1d8 x 100 damage
This is damage at the muzzle. Damage x 1.4 for Recon
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:14 pm
by Captain_Nibbz
Oh dang! THIS is what happened to that thread!
I'll be watching with interest to see what all you come up with!
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:06 pm
by slade the sniper
The problem is that posting things on the forum don't really format all that well That and the fact that I can't write instructions for sh--.
I have all the data done for weather, environment, units, etc. But, of course it is all in an excel file. I don't know, maybe I'll just write it Palladium Style and make it confusing AF, then blame the reader for not getting it Might still add in some other unit types like...oh, zombies, xenomorphs or dinosaurs or something?
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:35 am
by slade the sniper
Ok, got all the stats formatted, just trying to figure out how to put them on here without having to put it all on here without having to type it in all manually
Sigh, any ideas for how to do this?
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:01 pm
by slade the sniper
Okie dokie got all the "zone of control" stuff and combining units stuff done. Yay. So, the rules posted below are the I am going with, and unless someone has some inputs, my project is done.
The following are the aspects of each unit and rules of the game.
Offense is the total base attacking power of the unit. This is generally based upon the type of unit. Defense is the total base defensive power of the unit. This is generally based upon the type of unit.
Size is the total size (in personnel) of the unit. There are some exceptionally powerful units that receive a bonus to size to account for their power in spite of their small numbers. When there is a modifier, it is placed inside of parenthesis. IF a unit has a + or a – after the size it is Reinforced or Reduced. A Reinforced unit gets a +1 to either Offense or Defense, a Reduced unit gets a -1 to either Offense or Defense. Damage is equal to the Offense x Size of the unit. Resilience is equal to the Defense x Size of the unit.
Leadership – measuring the ability of the leaders to inspire their troops Medical/ Administration/ Recruiting– measuring the ability of the unit to care for and replace their troops Perception/ Intelligence – measuring the ability of the unit to gain, retain and use information to their benefit Tactics/ Operations/ Strategy – this measures the ability of the unit to follow orders in the heat of battle Equipment/ Logistics – the ability of the unit to supply/repair themselves during battle Planning – the unit’s ability to plan accordingly to their enemy and the environment Teamwork/ Communications/ Information – the ability to communicate clearly and effectively in spite of conflict Morale/ Training – the morale of the unit and the training they undergo Environment/ Engineering – the unit’s ability to use the environment and engineering to their benefit Persuasion/ Negotiations/ Diplomacy – The ability of the unit to gain allies and keep enemies out of the battle
Speed is the speed of the unit while in combat. The travelling speed in approximately 1.5 times that if it is not noted. Range is the area that the unit can contest, as measured from the center of the unit. Range takes the baseline longest range weapon system and modifies it based on the Size of the unit. Size Range multiple (as measured from the center of the unit) 0 x1 1 x2 2 x4 3 x8 4 x16 5 x32 6 x64 7 x128 8 x256 9 x512 10 x1,024 11 x2,048 12 x4,096 13 x8,192 14 x16,384 15 x32,768
Combining Units Every Step DOWN from the higher number is only worth half value. The Skills use ONLY the larger unit’s skills.
Steps down for Offense, Defense and Size 1 .5 2 .25 3 .125 4 .0625 5 .03125 6 .0156 7 .007 8 .003 9 .015 10 .001
As an example an O8 D7 S7 unit is combined with a O6 D6 S6 unit, the unit will become a O8 to O6 is two steps down so the O is now 8.25, the D is one step down so the D is now 7.5 and the S is one size step down so it is now a S 7.5 for a combined unit rating of O8.25 D7.5 S7.5
Notes are things that are important for the understanding of the unit such as whether it flies, is naval or etc. This is also where any additional skills would be denoted.
There are five levels of realism/simulation that are tied to these values. The first level is the most simple and abstract. If the offense of the unit is higher than the defense of the opposing unit, the first unit wins. If a unit A with a 2 offense and a 3 defense fights a unit B with a 4 offense and a 3 defense, you compare the offense and defense of each unit, 2 vs 3 and a 4 vs 3. In that case the second unit defeats the first unit because its offense of 4 is larger than the defense of 3, and the 2 offense of the first unit is not enough to overcome the 3 defense of the second unit.
The second level adds in some uncertainty into the conflict so that it is no longer strictly a numbers game. You divide the offense of the first unit by the defense of the second, then multiply that by 50%. Offense 2 vs Defense of 3 = 2/3 = 66.6% x .5 = 33.3 = 33%. That means the first unit has a 33% chance of defeating the second unit. Offense 4 vs Defense of 3 = 4/3 = 133% x .5 = 66.6% rounded up to 67%. The second unit has a 67% change of defeating the first unit. The first and second player both roll d%, and it is possible that both units survive or both die, instead of a simple neat victory.
The third level introduces the concept of attrition. Offense x Size = Damage, and Defense x Size = Resilience. In the case of a unit (A) with offense 4, defense 5, size 7 it would a damage of 28 and a resilience of 35. Another unit (B) has an offense of 7, defense 7 and size 6 would have a damage of 42 and a resilience of 42 as well.
Unit A vs Unit B equals offense 4 divided by defense 7 = 57% x .5 = 28.5% = 29% of Unit A damaging Unit B. Unit B has a offense 7 divided by defense 5 = 140% x .5 = 70% chance of damaging Unit A. If Unit A rolls less than 29% against Unit B, then it will inflict 28 damage against the 42 resilience of Unit B. That will leave Unit B with a resilience of 14. If Unit B rolls under 70% it will inflict 42 damage against the 35 resilience of unit A. 35 – 42 = -7. That -7 means that Unit A has been disrupted and loses some capability. Unit A loses 1 from their Offense, Defense and Size. That makes Unit A have an Offense of 3, a Defense of 4 and a Size of 6, which subsequently reduces the Damage to 18 and Resilience to 24. Since there was still 7 points of damage left over, that is now subtracted from the Resilience of 24 to make it 17.
If, for some reason the commander of Unit A wishes to continue to fight, to damage Unit B, Unit A will have to roll below Offense of 3 divided by the Defense of 7 = 42.8 x .5 = 21.4%. Unit B will have to roll under Offense of 7 divided by Defense of 4 = 1.75 x .5 = 87.5% rounded up to 88%. The Resilience of Unit B remains what it was previously, it does NOT reset each round.
For the sake of example, if Unit A does succeed in damaging B, and B does NOT succeed in damaging A, then unit B would lose an additional 18 points of resilience, which reduces that to -4, disrupting Unit B. Unit B would then lose 1 from Offense, Defense and Size, recalculating the Damage and Resilience. The remaining 4 points of damage are then subtracted from the new Resilience. The new percentages for combat are now recalculated for both Unit A and Unit B.
By adding some additional details, the game is expanded to cover more than combat. These additional facets are used to measure various skills that are needed to successfully conduct combat operations over time instead of only solitary skirmishes. Some of these are known by different names depending on the size of the unit, but they all measure the same factors but are NOT interchangeable. These skills are described above and include Leadership, Medical/ Administration/ Recruiting, Perception/ Intelligence, Tactics/ Operations/ Strategy, Equipment/ Logistics, Planning, Teamwork/ Communications/ Information, Morale/ Training, Environment/ Engineering, and Persuasion/ Negotiations/ Diplomacy.
Each of these are measured as a percentage. Before a battle, the unit rolls to see if they gain any bonuses by rolling under the skill percentage. As a unit takes damage, each of the percentages is reduced by 10% until the unit no longer gains any bonus from that skill. Leadership grants a bonus of +1 to Offense AND Defense. All of the other skills grant a +1 to either Offense OR Defense as chosen by the player.
As an example, a unit has a 62% logistics skill. The player rolls a 44%. The unit gets a +1 to either offense or defense as the player chooses. The player chooses a +1 to defense. Let us say the player loses a combat and due to that, the new logistics skill is now 52% (-10% due to a loss in the unit’s size). The bonus of +1 is still there due to the 44% still being under the new skill level of 52%. The player can shift that +1 to offense or keep it in defense. If the unit takes damage again and loses another -10% in skill, it will be a 42%. As the roll of 44% is higher than the new skill of 42%, the +1 bonus is now lost for this round.
If a unit with ends up with a negative modifier larger than the number rolled, such a unit rolls a 32% in logistics and eventually ends up with a -40% due to combat, then that unit will have a -1 to either offense or defense since the 32 is less than the -40%.
The final level of simulation is added by the use of a map, which utilizes Range and Speed as tactical variables. The scale of these combats can range from 1 inch equals 5’ or 2 meters individual warriors and small teams, all the way up to 1” equals 100,000 km on a side. When using a map (or terrain), the units may be denoted by either counters or miniatures, depending on the desire of the players. Each map square will be denoted with any specific rules that affect units, and brings into effect line of sight rules for small units. When using a map, terrain becomes a consideration for both range, speed, LOS and Indirect fire.
Notes are where specific information about the unit is noted that may come up in the game and any changes to the basic rules above.
Creating a Battlefield. What sort of mission are you trying to play Step 1, place the Main Objective card down (determined from the mission type) Step 2, lay a terrain type and determine density, elevation, obstacle or wall
Terrain has a type (urban 2, forest 2, grassland 1, Paved 0, etc.) Terrain has a density (open 0, close 1, dense 2, obstacle X, wall X) Terrain has an elevation (depression 2, low 1, flat 0, rise 1, high 2)
A paved, open, flat area gives NO modifiers to range, speed or defense.
The words are for description so that you can have a forest with close growth in a depression. The numbers act as divisors for both range and speed. For example a forest (2) with close (1) growth in a depression (2) will have a modifier of 2 + 1 + 2 = 5. That means that the range of weapons and speed are 1/6th what they normally are (since the 5 + 1 = 6). This number ALSO adds to the defense of units, so that the previous unit will have a +6 to its defense.
An obstacle has a number next to it which is the number of combat turns it will take to cross it. A wall acts the same as an obstacle, but it also blocks LOS.
Line of Sight now plays a role as well. Open terrain does not block line of sight. You have a LOS of 1 for close terrain, meaning that you can see through 1 square of close terrain and engage targets on the far side. Dense terrain you can only engage targets in the adjacent square. Walls block LOS and thus can not be attacked into or through. Smoke can also block LOS.
Indirect Fire (IDF) is a subset of Offense which is noted by a number inside of parenthesis with an I in the Offense line, such as Offense 6 (5I) which means that the unit has a normal Offense of 6, but can use an Offense of 5 even if it does not have LOS but still within range of a target, but another unit does, with a successful Communications roll of the unit who LOS. If the units are in the SAME Square both units lose all defensive benefits for their position.
Cut out some Random Shapes Types include Urban 1, Urban 2, Grassland 1, Grassland 2, Forest 1, Forest 2, Flatlands 0, Swamp 1, Swamp 2 Density Open 0, Close 1, Dense 2 Depression 2, Depression 1, Flat 0, Elevation 1, Elevation 2 Obstacle/Wall X
Weather: Light Rain 1 Heavy Rain 2 Light Snow 1 Heavy Snow 2 Daytime 0 Night time 1 Bitterly Cold 1 Extremely Hot 1
Because I totally love talking to myself... Would you want a mass combat game use counters with little pictures on it (little tanks, little infantry dudes, little helicopters) OR unit symbols for the counters, OR would you want them to be two sided so you could have a choice?
Alternately, standing pictures (either with bases or just folded in an "A" shape) so that the side facing you the player has information, and the side facing the opponent just has a number so the enemy knows there is a unit there, but not much else (size, type, etc.).
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:54 pm
by slade the sniper
Hello me, it's me again.
So, now that I've got the skill system built...and I have written the unit construction rules, it is opinion time
So, building a low end barely functional corps of melee based infantry militia costs 880 points, which is acceptable when you are getting 20 to 50 thousand troops.
On the high end building a heavy space battleship crewed entirely by experts with decades of experience, weapons ranges of 200,000 km and a combat maneuvering speed of .2c comes out to... an absolutely incredible 62,339,200,000,000,000 points. To be fair, that is basically a planetary level of production, something along the lines of a 40K Imperial Battleship or a Super Star Destroyer from Star Wars.
Is that too swingy with regard to the points or does it sound...about right? Should I give more examples?
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:42 am
by Captain_Nibbz
Maybe some more examples here.
On the one hand, that does sound right . . . but at the same time perspective might help it be easier to swallow that number
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:11 pm
by slade the sniper
OMG, a reply!?!
Ok, here is the rules for the unit costs:
Unit Cost Now that the elements of the unit have been explained, how does a player go about building their organizations? Offense x Defense x Size = Combat Cost That is all that is needed when making a basic organization. IF you want to go for more detail and incorporate skills, then add all of the skills together to find the skill cost. Written out it is: Leadership + Personnel + Intelligence + Operations + Logistics + Planning + Communications + Training + Engineering + Diplomacy = Skill modifier. The ten skills at 10% each is 100% of the base cost. This means that the basic cost includes the ten skills at 10% if you so choose to include skills in your game.
The speed characteristic in kilometers per hour is the combat speed of the unit. The range of unit is in meters so that translates as a range of 1 meter. This means that a melee unit with a combat speed of 1 km/h has a multiplier of 1.
As a few examples a unit with an offense of 10, a defense of 8 and a size of 11 is: 10 x 8 x 11 = 880
If it has all 10 skills at 10% that is 10 x 10% = 100%
880 points x 100% = 880 points.
Let’s say the unit is only a melee unit (range of 1 meter) and only has a combat speed of 1 km/h that means the base cost of 880 x 1 x 1 = a grand total of 880 points.
For a very high end unit such as a heavy space battleship, with an expert crew and a range of 200,000 km and a speed of .2c (the speed of light) for a speed of roughly 80,500,000 km/h.
The ship will have an offense of 11, defense of 11 and a size of 8. That gives a base cost of 968. For all 10 skills to be at 40% is 400%. 968 x 400% = 3,872 points
To give it 200,000 km range makes the cost 774,400,000 points. To give it a combat maneuvering speed of .2 c (80.5 million) raises the cost to an incredible 62,339, 200,000,000,000 points.
Apparently building top end battleships is very expensive. To be fair, this is the equivalent of planetary level effort to build a multi-kilometer long warship crewed by some of the best and brightest on that planet.
I think I am going to have to use something like a modifier like MDC or something to get the number of zeros lower.
Thanks for the reply!
Here are some other random examples with all the stats including costs an NVA infantry Regiment Offense 9 Defense 8 Size 8 Damage 72 Resilience 64 Leadership 20% Personnel 20% Intelligence 20% Operations 20% Logistics 20% Planning 20% Communications 20% Training 10% Engineering 10% Diplomacy 10% Range 3000 meters Speed 1 km/h Unit Cost 2,764,800
A WWII US Ranger Battalion Offense 9 Defense 8 Size 7 Damage 63 Resilience 56 Leadership 30% Personnel 30% Intelligence 20% Operations 30% Logistics 20% Planning 20% Communications 20% Training 30% Engineering 10% Diplomacy 10% Range 1800 meters Speed 1.5 km/h Unit Cost 2,993,760
A VF-1 Veritech squadron (post Rain of Death) Offense 9 Defense 8 Size 7 Damage 73 Resilience 56 Leadership 20% Personnel 10% Intelligence 10% Operations 20% Logistics 20% Planning 10% Communications 20% Training 20% Engineering 20% Diplomacy 10% Range 500km to 1800km OR 4800 meters Speed 4300 km/h Unit Cost 624,153,600,000
A strike package of 4 X-wings, 4 A-wings, 4-Y wings and 2-B-wings (just a bunch of rag tag rebels) Offense 9 Defense 9 Size 7+ Damage 63 Resilience 63 Leadership 20% Personnel 10% Intelligence 10% Operations 10% Logistics 10% Planning 10% Communications 10% Training 10% Engineering 0% Diplomacy 10% Range 3,500,000 km Speed 1100 km/h Unit Cost 2,338,875,000,000,000
The HMS Hood Offense 8 Defense 8 Size 7 Damage 54 Resilience 54 Leadership 20% Personnel 20% Intelligence 20% Operations 20% Logistics 20% Planning 20% Communications 20% Training 20% Engineering 10% Diplomacy 10% Range 30,600 meters Speed 56 km/h Unit Cost 1,381,847,040
-STS
P.S. Ok, I gotta do some changes for the costs
The rest of the stuff seems acceptable, to me at least.
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:43 pm
by slade the sniper
OK, working on those costs, thinking about going with Speed Classes and Range Bands instead of exact speeds and exact ranges...since it isn't like a lot of warfare really depends on an extra 5 km/h in a fighter or an extra 3km of range for a ballistic missile.
Will post the updated stuff...later on I guess.
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:41 pm
by Captain_Nibbz
Keep it coming. I'm watching and I'll post when I can lol
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:06 am
by slade the sniper
tl;dr quick comparison: NVA Regiment = 9792 points WWII Ranger Battalion = 9979 points VF-1 Veritech Squadron (12 aircraft) = 199,181 points 4 X-wings, 4 A-wings, 4-Y wings and 2-B-wings = 200,475 points Early WWII Battleship, HMS Hood = 11,290 points Random heavy space battleship = 2,818,816 points
Ok, here is the build cost for Range and Speed... Each rank is a multiple, so:
Spoiler:
Range is determined by a rank on the following table. It must be stressed that EACH type of range counts as a separate number so that a unit that can target enemies under the water, on the water/surface and in the air (such as an aircraft carrier can do) requires three separate ranges. Melee range counts as a “1” 1 30’ melee range, trenches & improvised depth 2 60’ Short, Nap of the Earth, Commercial depth 3 120’, Reinforced depth 4 250’ Medium, High security depth 5 500’ Low altitude, Epipelagic depth 6 900’ Long 7 1800’ 8 ½ mile Extreme, Mesopelagic depth 9 1 mile Tactical 10 2 miles Medium altitude, Bathypelagic depth 11 4 miles High altitude, Abyssopelagic depth 12 8 miles, Hadalpelagic depth 13 16 miles Operational 14 30 miles, Crust depth 15 60 miles 16 120 miles Strategic 17 250 miles LEO, upper mantle depth 18 500 miles 19 1000 miles Theater 20 2000 miles, Mantle depth 21 4000 miles, Outer core depth 22 8000 miles Global 23 16,000 miles High Earth Orbit 24 32,000 miles 25 64,000 miles 26 125,000 miles/200,000 km (1 light second) 27 250,000 miles Interplanetary 28 500,000 miles 29 1 million miles 30 2 million miles +1 x2
Speed is determined by a rank. For units that can proceed on multiple types of terrain such as underground, space and air, it will require three separate speeds, one for each environment. A stationary object has no additional costs, so it counts as speed of “1”
So, the NEW costs for the units are: Here are some other random examples with all the stats including costs an NVA infantry Regiment Offense 9 Defense 8 Size 8 (9 x 8 x 8 = 576 points) Damage 72 Resilience 64 Leadership 20% Personnel 20% Intelligence 20% Operations 20% Logistics 20% Planning 20% Communications 20% Training 10% Engineering 10% Diplomacy 10% (576 x 170% = 979.2 points) Range 3000 meters (rank 10 x 979.2 = 9792 points) Speed 1 km/h (rank 1 = 9792 x 1 = 9792 points) Unit Cost = 9792 points
A WWII US Ranger Battalion Offense 9 Defense 8 Size 7 (9 x 8 x 7 = 504 points) Damage 63 Resilience 56 Leadership 30% Personnel 30% Intelligence 20% Operations 30% Logistics 20% Planning 20% Communications 20% Training 30% Engineering 10% Diplomacy 10% (220% x 504 = 1108.8 points) Range 1800 meters (rank 9 x 1108.8 = 9979.2 points) Speed 1.5 km/h (rank 1 x 9979.2 points) Unit Cost = 9979 points (round down)
A VF-1 Veritech squadron (post Rain of Death) Offense 9 Defense 8 Size 7 (9 x 8 x 7 = 504 points) Damage 73 Resilience 56 Leadership 20% Personnel 10% Intelligence 10% Operations 20% Logistics 20% Planning 10% Communications 20% Training 20% Engineering 20% Diplomacy 10% (160% x 504 = 806.4 points) Range 500km to 1800km for long range missiles OR 4800 meters for short range missiles (rank 19 x 806.4 = 15321.6) Speed 4300 km/h (rank 13 x 15321.6 = 199,180.8 ) Unit Cost 199,181 (round up)
A strike package of 4 X-wings, 4 A-wings, 4-Y wings and 2-B-wings (just a bunch of rag tag rebels) Offense 9 Defense 9 Size 7+ (9 x 9 x 7.5 = 607.5 points) Damage 63 Resilience 63 Leadership 20% Personnel 10% Intelligence 10% Operations 10% Logistics 10% Planning 10% Communications 10% Training 10% Engineering 0% Diplomacy 10% (100% x 607.5 points) Range 3,500,000 km (rank 30 x 607.5 = 18,225 points) Speed 1100 km/h (rank 11 x 18,225 = 200,475 points) Unit Cost 200,475 points
The HMS Hood Offense 8 Defense 8 Size 7 (8 x 8 x 7 = 448 points) Damage 54 Resilience 54 Leadership 20% Personnel 20% Intelligence 20% Operations 20% Logistics 20% Planning 20% Communications 20% Training 20% Engineering 10% Diplomacy 10% (180% x 448 = 806.4 points) Range 30,600 meters (rank 14 x 806.4 = 11,289.6 points) Speed 56 km/h (rank 6 x 11,289.6 points) Unit Cost 11,290 points (round up)
I think that works MUCH better...
As for the most expensive thing I could make previously: For a very high end unit such as a heavy space battleship, with an expert crew and a range of 200,000 km and a speed of .2c (the speed of light) for a speed of roughly 80,500,000 km/h.
The ship will have an offense of 11, defense of 11 and a size of 8. That gives a base cost of 968. For all 10 skills to be at 40% is 400%. 968 x 400% = 3,872 points
To give it 200,000 km range makes the cost 774,400,000 points. To give it a combat maneuvering speed of .2 c (80.5 million) raises the cost to an incredible 62,339, 200,000,000,000 points.
Apparently building top end battleships is very expensive. To be fair, this is the equivalent of planetary level effort to build a multi-kilometer long warship crewed by some of the best and brightest on that planet.
Now it is Offense 11, Defense 11 and size 8 for a total of 968 points. The 10 skills at 40% each is 400%, so 968 points x 4 = 3872 points. The range of 200,000km gives us a range rank of 26 x 3872 = 100,672 points. A combat speed of .2C gives us a speed rank of 28 x 100,672 = 2,818,816 points.
Comments?
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:56 am
by slade the sniper
OK, so those new unit building costs seem to be in-line with what I want.
Right now I am working on the level of detail. Does it matter if an Infantry Brigade is using M4's or AK-47's? What about at an individual soldier level? I know that the RPG aspect is all about maximizing the character, but on a wargaming level, does that level of detail have a place, or would it be distracting?
Comments?
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:32 am
by slade the sniper
Working on the Unit/character sheets now. I think it might be a two pager (or a front and back, preferably). The Front side has all the unit data and the back side is a quick reference table of charts and rules.
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:10 am
by Captain_Nibbz
I promise that I'm skimming this when I get a chance but everything in my life is on fire because . . . well yeah
So far I think that this build system looks pretty solid. I might corner my wife one of these weekends and maybe do a bit of messing around with it. No promises unfortunately since, again, life
If things ever calm down I'll pick through this in more detail, but for now, keep it up! I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:39 am
by slade the sniper
Thank you for you support!
I am lurking around some of the TT Wargaming boards and thinking about whether to post up some stuff there, but...I don't think I am ready for an "alpha test."
I don't have any wargame-y people around me. Gamers, yes. Wargamers, no. After this apocalypse runs its course, I think I'll give out some alpha test sets for free at my FLGS (if any of them survive).
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:16 am
by slade the sniper
Ok, now I have the information that goes on the unit/character sheet. Now, I am just trying to figure out what the sheet needs to "look like." Sigh. Oh well.
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:57 am
by slade the sniper
Still haven't worked out the unit/character sheet look/design...but, perhaps the sheets should look different depending upon the "time period"?
I am thinking that the time periods could be: Classical Medieval Renaissance Napoleonic Victorian/WWI WWII 1950's to 1970's, maybe a cold war and/or an insurgency version (to cover Africa and all the fun times in South East Asia) 1980's to modern...kind of a big warfare one and a War On Terror version Science Fiction
I don't know...my graphic design abilities are lacking
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:47 am
by slade the sniper
↳ test
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:04 am
by slade the sniper
Hi me. OK, ready for alpha testing and the endless cycle of playtest/editing/playtest. YAY.
Any ideas on who may be interested to have it emailed to them? LOL....
Anyway, I've got 15 pages of rules (mostly charts) and a few pages of excel with the unit stats on them. I would post them here, but charts don't format well at all here, as seen below.
Unit list by type.
Spoiler:
Militia Light Gangs Militia Light+ Archers Militia Medium Terrorists Militia Heavy Hezbollah Infantry Very Light Archers Infantry Light Small Arms Infantry Medium GPMG's Infantry Heavy AT weapons Infantry Very Heavy Full Body Armor Infantry Super Heavy MD Body Armor Zentraedi Infantry Zentraedi Zent Infantry Elite Light- Archers Elite Light Contractors Elite Medium Knights Elite Medium Modern US Infantry Elite White SOF Medium + White SOF Elite Black SOF Heavy - Black SOF Elite Heavy ODST Motorized Militia Light Gangs Motorized Militia Medium Terrorists Motorized Militia Heavy Hezbollah Motorized Infantry Light Cars Motorized Infantry Medium Trucks Motorized Infantry Heavy Armored Motorized Elite Light Small Arms Motorized Elite Medium GPMG's Motorized Elite Heavy AT weapons Mech Infantry Light APCs Mech Infantry Medium Upgunned APCs Mech Infantry Heavy IFVs Mech Infantry Elite Light APCs Mech Infantry Elite Medium Upgunned APCs Mech Infantry Elite Heavy IFVs Mounted Light Light Cav/dismounted Mounted Medium Cavalry/dismounted Mounted Heavy Heavy Cav/dismounted Mounted knights Very Heavy Armored Cav/dismounted Helicopter Super Light bubble Attack Helicopter Very Light MD-500 Helicopter Very Light OH-6 Helicopter Light Kiowa Attack Helicopter Medium AH-64 Helicopter Medium UH-60 Helicopter Heavy Chinook Mortar Very Light 50mm Mortar LIght 60mm Mortar Medium 80mm Mortar Heavy 120mm Mortar Very Heavy 240mm Mortar Super heavy 300mm+ Artillery-black powder Super Light 4 pounder Artillery-black powder Super Light + 6 pounder Artillery-black powder Very Light 9 pounder Artillery-black powder Light 12 pounder Artillery-black powder Medium 18 pounder Artillery-black powder Heavy 24 pounder Artillery-black powder Very Heavy 32 pounder Artillery-black powder Very Heavy + 42 pounder Artillery-black powder Super heavy 64 pounder Street Level Hero (PL 6) Medium Super Hero (PL 10) Heavy Artillery - modern Super Light 50mm Artillery - modern Very Light 75mm Artillery - modern Light 80mm Self propelled artillery Medium 105mm Artillery - modern Medium 105mm Self propelled artillery Heavy 155mm Artillery - modern Heavy 155mm Jobaria MLRS 240 tubes Very Heavy 122mm rockets Self propelled artillery Very Heavy 200mm Artillery - modern Very Heavy 200mm Power Armor Light (1/2 t) Battletech PAL Power Armor Medium (1 t) Battletech PAM/Elemental Power Armor Heavy (3 t) Battletech PAH Powered Armor Light (siz 3) Zent FPA Powered Armor Light (siz 3) Zent MPA Power Armor Elite Light Mjolnir IV (1/2t) Power Armor Elite Medium Mjolnir V (1/2 t) Power Armor Elite Medium + Cyclone Power Armor Elite Heavy SAMAS Power Armor Elite Very Heavy Ultimax Power Armor Elite Super Heavy Glitter boy Adeptus Astartes light Unarmormed initiate Adeptus Scout Light Scout Armor Initiate Adeptus Scout Light Scout Armor Veteran Adeptus Astartes Medium Astartes Armor Adeptus Veterans Medium Astartes Armor Adeptus Captain Medium Astartes Armor + Iron Halo Adeptus Terminator Heavy Terminator Vets (+1/+1) Adeptus Astartes Very Heavy Dreadnought Adeptus Astartes Super Heavy Seige Dreadnought Grav Tank (< 100 tons) Light RL grav Grav Tank (200 - 300 tons) Medium RL grav Grav Tank (< 400 tons) Heavy RL grav Nuclear warhead Super Light tons - Fallout Fat Man Nuclear warhead Very light sub kilotons Nuclear warhead light kilotons Nuclear warhead medium Megatons Nuclear warhead heavy 25 Mtons Nuclear warhead Very heavy 50 Mtons Nuclear warhead Super heavy 100 Mtons + Tank Light RHA Tank Medium Heavy RHA Tank Heavy Modern MBT Tank Very Heavy 100 tons Tank Super Heavy Baneblade Bolo Super Light MK I to VI Bolo Very Light Mk VI to X Bolo Light Mk XI to XV Bolo Medium MK XVI to XX Bolo Heavy Mk XXI to XXV Bolo Very Heavy Mk XXVI to XXIX Bolo Super Heavy MK XXX Mecha Super Light Protomechs (2t to 9t) Mecha Very Light VL Mech/Proto Mech (10-15t) Mecha Very Light+ VF-1 Veritechs Mecha Light - Regult Battle Pod Mecha Light - Regult Lt artillery BP Mecha Light - Regult Hvy artillery BP Mecha Light IK Armiger/Locust Mecha Light (20-40t) RDF Destroids (15t) Mecha Medium Glaug Officer Mecha Medium (40-60t) IK Questoris Mecha Heavy (60-80t) IK Cerastus Mecha Very Heavy (80-100t) Atlas/IK Dominus Mecha Super Heavy (100+t) IK Acastus Walker Super Light AT-RT Walker Very Light AT-ST/Sentinels Walker light AT-TE Walker Medium Walker Heavy AT-AT Walker Very Heavy AT-M6 Walker Super Heavy Titan Light Warhound/MAC II Titan Medium Medium Titan/ Reaver Titan Heavy Warlord Titan Very Heavy Imperator Fighter Super Light WWI Fighter Very Light WWII Fighter Light Jets Fighter Medium Gen 4 Fighter Heavy Gen 5 Bomber Super Light WWI Bomber Very Light WWII Bomber Light Jets Bomber Medium Gen 4 Bomber Heavy Gen 5 Trireme Super Light Classical - Small Trireme Super Light Classical - Small Trireme Super Light Classical - Small Galley Very Light Medieval - Small Galley Very Light Medieval - Small Galley Very Light Medieval - Small Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Submarine Very light WWI Submarine Light WWII Submarine Medium Modern attack Submarine Heavy ballistic missile sub Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Battletech Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light USS Sulaco Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek - Constitution Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek - Galaxy class Spaceships (w shields) Light BSG - Battlestar Galactica Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars - Nebulon B Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars MC-80 Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars - Star Destroyer Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars - Eclipse Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K Spaceships (w shields) Heavy USS Defiant Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K - Cruiser Spaceships (w shields) Heavy Battleship 40K - Grand Cruiser Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K - Battlebarge Spaceships (w shields) Heavy Carrier 40K - Battleship Aerospace Fighter Super Light Tie Fighter Aerospace Fighter Very Light BSG Viper Aerospace Fighter Light A Wing Aerospace Fighter Medium X Wing Aerospace Fighter Heavy Y Wing Aerospace Fighter Very Heavy B Wing Aerospace Fighter Super Heavy ST Fighters - Valkyrie Droppod Super Light Carries Supplies covertly Droppod Very Light Supplies Droppod Light People Droppod Medium Light Powered Armor Droppod Heavy Heavy Powered Armor Droppod Very Heavy Dreadnought Droppod Super Heavy Siege Dreadnoughts Dropship Super Light Troops Dropship Very Light Light Vehicles Dropship Very Light UD-4 Cheyenne Dropship Light Heavy Vehicles Dropship Medium Several mecha Dropship Heavy Multiple heavy mecha Dropship Very Heavy Titans Dropship Super Heavy Bases Horse Drawn Super Light 1 man Chariot Horse Drawn Very Light 2 man Chariot Horse Drawn Very Light 3 man Chariot Horse Drawn Light 4 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Medium 6 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Heavy 8 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Very Heavy 10 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Super Heavy 12 Horse Carriage
Anyway, how's this for a plan? Playtest it a bit. Commission some art, make some physical components and maps....make about 50 sets, put them in plastic bag and give them away at the hobby stores in town. Then put it up for free at Wargames Vault and DriveThruRPG for free.
-STS
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 11:25 am
by Captain_Nibbz
slade the sniper wrote:Hi me. OK, ready for alpha testing and the endless cycle of playtest/editing/playtest. YAY.
Any ideas on who may be interested to have it emailed to them? LOL....
Anyway, I've got 15 pages of rules (mostly charts) and a few pages of excel with the unit stats on them. I would post them here, but charts don't format well at all here, as seen below.
Unit list by type.
Spoiler:
Militia Light Gangs Militia Light+ Archers Militia Medium Terrorists Militia Heavy Hezbollah Infantry Very Light Archers Infantry Light Small Arms Infantry Medium GPMG's Infantry Heavy AT weapons Infantry Very Heavy Full Body Armor Infantry Super Heavy MD Body Armor Zentraedi Infantry Zentraedi Zent Infantry Elite Light- Archers Elite Light Contractors Elite Medium Knights Elite Medium Modern US Infantry Elite White SOF Medium + White SOF Elite Black SOF Heavy - Black SOF Elite Heavy ODST Motorized Militia Light Gangs Motorized Militia Medium Terrorists Motorized Militia Heavy Hezbollah Motorized Infantry Light Cars Motorized Infantry Medium Trucks Motorized Infantry Heavy Armored Motorized Elite Light Small Arms Motorized Elite Medium GPMG's Motorized Elite Heavy AT weapons Mech Infantry Light APCs Mech Infantry Medium Upgunned APCs Mech Infantry Heavy IFVs Mech Infantry Elite Light APCs Mech Infantry Elite Medium Upgunned APCs Mech Infantry Elite Heavy IFVs Mounted Light Light Cav/dismounted Mounted Medium Cavalry/dismounted Mounted Heavy Heavy Cav/dismounted Mounted knights Very Heavy Armored Cav/dismounted Helicopter Super Light bubble Attack Helicopter Very Light MD-500 Helicopter Very Light OH-6 Helicopter Light Kiowa Attack Helicopter Medium AH-64 Helicopter Medium UH-60 Helicopter Heavy Chinook Mortar Very Light 50mm Mortar LIght 60mm Mortar Medium 80mm Mortar Heavy 120mm Mortar Very Heavy 240mm Mortar Super heavy 300mm+ Artillery-black powder Super Light 4 pounder Artillery-black powder Super Light + 6 pounder Artillery-black powder Very Light 9 pounder Artillery-black powder Light 12 pounder Artillery-black powder Medium 18 pounder Artillery-black powder Heavy 24 pounder Artillery-black powder Very Heavy 32 pounder Artillery-black powder Very Heavy + 42 pounder Artillery-black powder Super heavy 64 pounder Street Level Hero (PL 6) Medium Super Hero (PL 10) Heavy Artillery - modern Super Light 50mm Artillery - modern Very Light 75mm Artillery - modern Light 80mm Self propelled artillery Medium 105mm Artillery - modern Medium 105mm Self propelled artillery Heavy 155mm Artillery - modern Heavy 155mm Jobaria MLRS 240 tubes Very Heavy 122mm rockets Self propelled artillery Very Heavy 200mm Artillery - modern Very Heavy 200mm Power Armor Light (1/2 t) Battletech PAL Power Armor Medium (1 t) Battletech PAM/Elemental Power Armor Heavy (3 t) Battletech PAH Powered Armor Light (siz 3) Zent FPA Powered Armor Light (siz 3) Zent MPA Power Armor Elite Light Mjolnir IV (1/2t) Power Armor Elite Medium Mjolnir V (1/2 t) Power Armor Elite Medium + Cyclone Power Armor Elite Heavy SAMAS Power Armor Elite Very Heavy Ultimax Power Armor Elite Super Heavy Glitter boy Adeptus Astartes light Unarmormed initiate Adeptus Scout Light Scout Armor Initiate Adeptus Scout Light Scout Armor Veteran Adeptus Astartes Medium Astartes Armor Adeptus Veterans Medium Astartes Armor Adeptus Captain Medium Astartes Armor + Iron Halo Adeptus Terminator Heavy Terminator Vets (+1/+1) Adeptus Astartes Very Heavy Dreadnought Adeptus Astartes Super Heavy Seige Dreadnought Grav Tank (< 100 tons) Light RL grav Grav Tank (200 - 300 tons) Medium RL grav Grav Tank (< 400 tons) Heavy RL grav Nuclear warhead Super Light tons - Fallout Fat Man Nuclear warhead Very light sub kilotons Nuclear warhead light kilotons Nuclear warhead medium Megatons Nuclear warhead heavy 25 Mtons Nuclear warhead Very heavy 50 Mtons Nuclear warhead Super heavy 100 Mtons + Tank Light RHA Tank Medium Heavy RHA Tank Heavy Modern MBT Tank Very Heavy 100 tons Tank Super Heavy Baneblade Bolo Super Light MK I to VI Bolo Very Light Mk VI to X Bolo Light Mk XI to XV Bolo Medium MK XVI to XX Bolo Heavy Mk XXI to XXV Bolo Very Heavy Mk XXVI to XXIX Bolo Super Heavy MK XXX Mecha Super Light Protomechs (2t to 9t) Mecha Very Light VL Mech/Proto Mech (10-15t) Mecha Very Light+ VF-1 Veritechs Mecha Light - Regult Battle Pod Mecha Light - Regult Lt artillery BP Mecha Light - Regult Hvy artillery BP Mecha Light IK Armiger/Locust Mecha Light (20-40t) RDF Destroids (15t) Mecha Medium Glaug Officer Mecha Medium (40-60t) IK Questoris Mecha Heavy (60-80t) IK Cerastus Mecha Very Heavy (80-100t) Atlas/IK Dominus Mecha Super Heavy (100+t) IK Acastus Walker Super Light AT-RT Walker Very Light AT-ST/Sentinels Walker light AT-TE Walker Medium Walker Heavy AT-AT Walker Very Heavy AT-M6 Walker Super Heavy Titan Light Warhound/MAC II Titan Medium Medium Titan/ Reaver Titan Heavy Warlord Titan Very Heavy Imperator Fighter Super Light WWI Fighter Very Light WWII Fighter Light Jets Fighter Medium Gen 4 Fighter Heavy Gen 5 Bomber Super Light WWI Bomber Very Light WWII Bomber Light Jets Bomber Medium Gen 4 Bomber Heavy Gen 5 Trireme Super Light Classical - Small Trireme Super Light Classical - Small Trireme Super Light Classical - Small Galley Very Light Medieval - Small Galley Very Light Medieval - Small Galley Very Light Medieval - Small Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Light Age of Sail Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Medium WWI/WWII Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Ship Heavy Modern Submarine Very light WWI Submarine Light WWII Submarine Medium Modern attack Submarine Heavy ballistic missile sub Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Battletech Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light USS Sulaco Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (wo shields) Very Light Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek - Constitution Spaceships (w shields) Light Star Trek - Galaxy class Spaceships (w shields) Light BSG - Battlestar Galactica Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars - Nebulon B Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars MC-80 Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars - Star Destroyer Spaceships (w shields) Medium Star Wars - Eclipse Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K Spaceships (w shields) Heavy USS Defiant Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K - Cruiser Spaceships (w shields) Heavy Battleship 40K - Grand Cruiser Spaceships (w shields) Heavy 40K - Battlebarge Spaceships (w shields) Heavy Carrier 40K - Battleship Aerospace Fighter Super Light Tie Fighter Aerospace Fighter Very Light BSG Viper Aerospace Fighter Light A Wing Aerospace Fighter Medium X Wing Aerospace Fighter Heavy Y Wing Aerospace Fighter Very Heavy B Wing Aerospace Fighter Super Heavy ST Fighters - Valkyrie Droppod Super Light Carries Supplies covertly Droppod Very Light Supplies Droppod Light People Droppod Medium Light Powered Armor Droppod Heavy Heavy Powered Armor Droppod Very Heavy Dreadnought Droppod Super Heavy Siege Dreadnoughts Dropship Super Light Troops Dropship Very Light Light Vehicles Dropship Very Light UD-4 Cheyenne Dropship Light Heavy Vehicles Dropship Medium Several mecha Dropship Heavy Multiple heavy mecha Dropship Very Heavy Titans Dropship Super Heavy Bases Horse Drawn Super Light 1 man Chariot Horse Drawn Very Light 2 man Chariot Horse Drawn Very Light 3 man Chariot Horse Drawn Light 4 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Medium 6 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Heavy 8 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Very Heavy 10 Horse Carriage Horse Drawn Super Heavy 12 Horse Carriage
Anyway, how's this for a plan? Playtest it a bit. Commission some art, make some physical components and maps....make about 50 sets, put them in plastic bag and give them away at the hobby stores in town. Then put it up for free at Wargames Vault and DriveThruRPG for free.
-STS
Hi you!
Life is crazy right now for the obvious reasons but I would definitely like to see what the playtest document looks like. I've been enjoying following you along so far and I would like to test it myself of I ever find footing and the ability to focus on something that isn't being "essential"
The rest of that plan sounds pretty solid as well, what kind of physical components are you thinking? Terrain pieces? Units? I am intrigued.
Re: Mass Combat System RFI
Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 6:11 am
by slade the sniper
Since the game is supposed to be free, it uses stuff people can easily make (folded paper counters) or already have (minis and terrain). I will have some examples for using these as well as regular maps, other game counters, hexagonal (or square) overlays on top of real maps, hex based build your own terrain (such as Heroscape), and what measurements convert to for several different mini and wargame scales. In the give-away versions I think I might make some of them "themed" so that the counters match the theme. The rules booklet will be universal covering everything for all unit types, but the small map and counters will have a theme to them so I can make some of them WWII, others WWI, SciFi, Napoleonic, etc.
The scope of the game will be 12 +-4 units, so that a company commander PC will be controlling ~12 squads. A battalion commander will have ~12 platoons, etc. This will hold true for Fleet actions as well, although most of those operations will be ~12 ships, because building up to ~12 flotillas or ship squadrons is a BIG battle.
It is what it is, and that is a project to keep me from going crazy. Thank you for the support tho, I appreciate it.