hydra teeth and power wards

[Axelmania]

Power Wards could be made from two kinds of bone from two creatures of magic: either unicorn horns or hydra teeth since the original PRPG.

Initially this didn't present any problems with making wards because there was nothing drawing into question the long-term survival of these teeth.

However it probably did present a game-balance problem since hydras could regrow their heads, meaning the world might potentially be flooded with hydra teeth (and power wards) via single mastermind who just keeps beheading them and pulling teeth from the decapitated skulls.

Not only that, but since teeth are BONE and permanence wards can ALSO be made from "dragon bone" then it also could potentially lead to an easy supply of permanence wards.

I expect that's why when Hydras were nerfed in "Dragons and Gods", not only does it take longer for them to regenerate severed heads, but there's now a note about the heads vanishing into mist quickly after they're decapitated.

It happens so quickly that it really complicates the original idea of using hydra teeth for power wards at all though.

Teeth, presumably being part of the head, probably also vanish when the head is chopped off, like all the other parts...

One option I thought of is: maybe teeth don't actually vanish until the head is severed? So you could pull the teeth out of the hydra (it won't regrow them) but if the head you pulled it from is ever chopped off, those teeth vanish?

That sounds like an interesting compromise because then you might have diabolists guarding toothless hydra sanctuaries to keep their power wards intact.

How much should removing teeth lessen bite damage? I have no idea how many teeth each head is even meant to have TBH

[Library Ogre]

Teeth are not bone. They are actually similar to scales, meaning teeth are more like super-hardened skin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth#Origin

[kiralon]

Power Wards could be made from two kinds of bone from two creatures of magic: either unicorn horns or hydra teeth since the original PRPG.

Initially this didn't present any problems with making wards because there was nothing drawing into question the long-term survival of these teeth.

However it probably did present a game-balance problem since hydras could regrow their heads, meaning the world might potentially be flooded with hydra teeth (and power wards) via single mastermind who just keeps beheading them and pulling teeth from the decapitated skulls.

Not only that, but since teeth are BONE and permanence wards can ALSO be made from "dragon bone" then it also could potentially lead to an easy supply of permanence wards.

I expect that's why when Hydras were nerfed in "Dragons and Gods", not only does it take longer for them to regenerate severed heads, but there's now a note about the heads vanishing into mist quickly after they're decapitated.

It happens so quickly that it really complicates the original idea of using hydra teeth for power wards at all though.

Teeth, presumably being part of the head, probably also vanish when the head is chopped off, like all the other parts...

One option I thought of is: maybe teeth don't actually vanish until the head is severed? So you could pull the teeth out of the hydra (it won't regrow them) but if the head you pulled it from is ever chopped off, those teeth vanish?

That sounds like an interesting compromise because then you might have diabolists guarding toothless hydra sanctuaries to keep their power wards intact.

How much should removing teeth lessen bite damage? I have no idea how many teeth each head is even meant to have TBH

Don't sever the heads, just kill the hydra by damage to the body and pull the teeth. I play the heads disappearing as a natural ability of the hydra and so doesn't work when its dead. So if you kill it without chopping anything off its all there to loot, and i play each head has 1d4+2 * 10 teeth.

[Axelmania]

Teeth are not bone. They are actually similar to scales, meaning teeth are more like super-hardened skin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth#Origin

Be that as it may IRL, PF124 says in it's left column (continuation of Ward Components):

Power: This ward must be drawn or painted with the ground bone of a Hydra's tooth of unicorn horn

So it sounds like Hydras could be an exception where they do literally have a bone component to their teeth...

Pg 124 is really strange though, because under Ward Creation Time, the right column says:

Power: Drawn or painted in ground bone (humanoid of animal)

Neither unicorns or hydras are "humanoid" so... yeah

Don't sever the heads, just kill the hydra by damage to the body and pull the teeth.
I play the heads disappearing as a natural ability of the hydra and so doesn't work when its dead.
So if you kill it without chopping anything off its all there to loot, and i play each head has 1d4+2 * 10 teeth.

Good idea, never thought of that... and yeah it would be useful if they told us how many teeth a hydra had...

But then we're never told how much ground bone dust (ounces? pounds) you'd actually need to do a ward...

I assume you need more bone dust for larger wards and that larger wards would be easier to draw.

Some kind of set of rules for Diabolists like this might be cool. Like you can use some base weight of supplies for no penalty/bonus to either the Art or Sculpting/Whittling skill (starting skills for Diabolsits, RP-wise I think it wuold make sense to roll these to see if they drew symbols correctly) and maybe if you drew them extra-large (more supplies) you could get a bonus to the skill, and if you drew them extra-small (fewer supplies) you could get a penalty to skill.

That would help to explain variations in 'font size' for diabolists (maybe also summoners?). Normally you would expect them to "always miniaturize" (use fewer supplies, take up less space) unless there was incentive to "go large" such as it being easier to do the drawing correctly.