Ritual Spells & PPE Requirements

[Mack]

My interpretation is that the ritual allows the caster to spread the PPE requirement over time, which allows him to use PPE from additional sources (sacrifices, batteries, freely given from others...). Though I don't know if this is expressly stated anywhere, that's the context I've always inferred.

And as an aside, don't forget the spell Energy Sphere which can greatly increase the PPE available to a mage.

[drewkitty ~..~]

When rituals are done as a group the cost is split between the participants.
Then there is the duration the ritual takes lets the participants gather PPE from the ambient magic. Thou, the participants gathering the power might just have to have standing/non-moving rolls within the ritual.
And there is the part where there is no limit to how many people can participate in the ritual. (If I am incorrect on this one please cite where the Rifts Game Text says something about this.)

[ITWastrel]

I've always allowed the ritual to "hold" the PPE pumped in, and the ritual caster to keep adding from other sources until either they have the needed PPE or drop the ritual casting (wasting all the PPE already pumped in).

Noting that rituals use a stationary place, such as a circle or altar, and various implements such as candles and bells, a ritual isn't a quick affair. Logic would allow multiple sacrifices, or a long, sustained draw on the leyline for PPE per round. One could even envision a ritual that starts at midnight, is maintained through the day, drawing extra power at noon, and finishing at midnight again. Though some rolls for endurance may be warranted.

Also remember that normal people have some small amount PPE, and a cult of 100 members singing along could be tapped for 5-10 PPE per head. That's a lot of PPE, and is the main reason to get as many followers as possible.

Getting 1000+ PPE for a ritual isn't hard, if you have prep time and friends.

[guardiandashi]

I've always allowed the ritual to "hold" the PPE pumped in, and the ritual caster to keep adding from other sources until either they have the needed PPE or drop the ritual casting (wasting all the PPE already pumped in).

Noting that rituals use a stationary place, such as a circle or altar, and various implements such as candles and bells, a ritual isn't a quick affair. Logic would allow multiple sacrifices, or a long, sustained draw on the leyline for PPE per round. One could even envision a ritual that starts at midnight, is maintained through the day, drawing extra power at noon, and finishing at midnight again. Though some rolls for endurance may be warranted.

Also remember that normal people have some small amount PPE, and a cult of 100 members singing along could be tapped for 5-10 PPE per head. That's a lot of PPE, and is the main reason to get as many followers as possible.

Getting 1000+ PPE for a ritual isn't hard, if you have prep time and friends.

I agree my understanding is that a ritual as opposed to a "normal" spell allows all the participants to contribute ppe and the ritual itself acts like it contains a PPE reservoir that means the spell doesn't go off until the ritual PPE cost is fully paid. (or its interrupted mid cast)

one way to handle this is to essentially treat the ritual itself as a construct, it also has a certain life/integrity for staying "functional" if things occur that would otherwise disrupt the casting.

[Axelmania]

being gifted PPE from 1 or more ritual participants wont work
because you, the caster, are already at your limit
(which is x3 your base)

The misconception I think a lot of us have (of had... I believed this for a long time) is that you first had to absorb PPE from others before you could use it.

That doesn't appear to be the case though, and in fact I don't think you can actually store PPE from others at all.

RUE186 under Freely Given PPE:

The donated PPE may be used all at once,
or parceled out to a number of different spell.

There is no limit to the number of people who can join in an offer of their energy,
and if they are all focused via a ritual,
the mage can draw on them all instead of those within only a 20 foot radius.

The idea of "absorbing" PPE is mentioned under blood sacrifice: there is no upper limit listed, but whatever amount you steal is held for 6m/level then leaks at D10x10 per minute (10-100 lost per minute). That's a little "all at once" so IMO should house-rule that as D10x5 per 30 seconds instead.

BOM21 mentions the 3xPE minutes limit (acknowledging it had appeared as HOURS in Rifter prior) applying to:

most borrowed, captured or stolen P.P.E.

This obviously is not a universal rule (the blood sacrifice limit for example is level-based, not PE-based, and has no stated limit)

The "up to 3x" there is in respect to ley lines. Also there is nothing here stating that ley line energy can actually replenish your personal pool, only create a separate (triple-size) pool which fades.

I believe this was initially written in respect to the "additional 10 P.P.E. per level of experience" RMB163 allowed you to draw from a line every 12 hours ("additional 30 P.P.E. per level of experience every 6 hours" for nexus) but it reasonably floats over to the "10 PPE once every melee round" on RUE186.

I assumed for a long time the 10/level (or 10/melee) could just be dumped in your own never-fading pool if you depleted it, but can't find anything supporting that assumption. Nor the need to actually cast spells directly from that pool, which is why so many seem to think 4xPPE is some kind of utter cap (ie can't cast 401 PPE spell if you have 100 PPE).

I believe in RMB the way it'd work, is say you're a level 10 mystic with 50 PPE. You can in theory draw 300 PPE from the nexus, but can actually only store a temporary pool of 150 (in addition to your non-temp 50) so you could only store half that, and then must either use that unused 150 for a spell, or lose it.

Now back in Rifter times, PE in hours meant with PE 7 you could wait around for the next shift, and grab another 300 PPE, combine that with your 200 stored (50perm+150termp) to cast a 500 PPE spell.

PE in minutes wouldn't allow that, but PE in minutes is adequate when you can draw on 10 PPE per melee, because the Mystic is gong to reach his bonus 150 in a mere 15 melees, or 3m45s.

At that point, he can combine the 200 ppe he has stored with the next 10 PPE he draws, which unfortunately limits him to only casting a 210 PPE spell. So Mr. Mystic was actually stronger for casting big spells in the OLD system when BIGGER waves of PPE came at smaller intervals. However he's stronger in the new system for casting large amounts of weak magic where smaller waves of PPE come at rapid intervals

PF Heart of Magic 22 has a little "best of both worlds" IMO because it gives mages TWO bonus pools:

1) the "greater amounts" which is limited to 50% of usual PPE (instead of 300%) and PE melees (instead of minutes/hours) and fun "gotta fart" penalties
2) the "vast amounts" which is independent of your PPE, and levelx100. It has to be used in 1 round and has a fun "unaware of anything else" problem (no abandoning the spell to dodge the laser!)

Where it falls short is in long-term storage (hours in Rifter, minutes in RUE, either zero/infinite in RMB depending on how you read it) but that's okay because that's what stuff like Talismans and Energy Sphere should be used for.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If the ritual is to make an Astral Realm or a Dimensional Realm then it takes a sacrifice of Permanent PPE from the person(s) making the realm.

[The Beast]

If the ritual is to make an Astral Realm or a Dimensional Realm then it takes a sacrifice of Permanent PPE from the person(s) making the realm.

And if any of the individuals that gave up the permanent PPE should happen to die, then that realm loses that person's PPE until someone else covers down on it. This means one of the features may have to be dropped down to the previous tier.

[Curbludgeon]

I don't recall seeing anything about the death of a donor affecting the total P.P.E. already donated to an Astral Realm, and a lot of the text descriptions would suggest in fact the opposite. Otherwise, what would much of the fear against too many cooks leading to betrayal be based upon? If there's a relevant quote somewhere I'd sincerely like to hear about it.

[Axelmania]

I think this is implied when they say your class is a living battery of mystic energy, meaning batteries can be recharged. My interpretation was the leyline being an electrical socket and the mage is plugging in his cellphone to charge. Once at 100% he disconnects and goes about his way

The sad fact about tablets and cellphones and laptops I have learned over time is even if I'm not using it and have it shut down, the energy held in the battery seems to slowly whittle away over time, so if I leave it off at 100% and check on it a month later it's down to 0%

So I figure that's how ley line PPE works.

Which is why ley lines recharging your personal PPE base (which lasts indefinitely if unused) is still valuable.

[Orin J.]

I think this is implied when they say your class is a living battery of mystic energy, meaning batteries can be recharged. My interpretation was the leyline being an electrical socket and the mage is plugging in his cellphone to charge. Once at 100% he disconnects and goes about his way

The sad fact about tablets and cellphones and laptops I have learned over time is even if I'm not using it and have it shut down, the energy held in the battery seems to slowly whittle away over time, so if I leave it off at 100% and check on it a month later it's down to 0%

So I figure that's how ley line PPE works.

Which is why ley lines recharging your personal PPE base (which lasts indefinitely if unused) is still valuable.

that's because modern laptops, phones, and tablets are never "off", they're just in a standby state. i suppose that's true of rituals as well....

[drewkitty ~..~]

And if any of the individuals that gave up the permanent PPE should happen to die, then that realm loses that person's PPE until someone else covers down on it. This means one of the features may have to be dropped down to the previous tier.

There is nothing that says this in any text, as far as I am aware.


The only place where the death of a character would disenchant something would be possibly the devices made by a Psi Mechanics. This is because the PM's only temporarily put their PPE into their psionic devices.