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I have some issues with 2-action Called Shots, so am trying to figure out a good house rule to get rid of them. I think I mostly have it figured out, but I'm coming up short in one area, and I'm looking for some ideas on how to handle this. Allow me to explain the rule, and then the area that it falters.

I'm 100% behind a 2-action Aimed shot. After all, you're taking time to aim. However with a Called shot, maybe you take time to aim, and maybe you don't. Either way, you should still be able to hit something other than the main body even if you don't take longer to aim - it's just harder. My house rule for this combines the RMB rules with the RUE rules. In RMB, range hits on a 5, and called shots need a 12. This is a difference of 7. In RUE, range hits on an 8, so a called shot should require 7 more than that, or 15. It's significantly harder to hit, but still possible. And if you want to take extra time and aim, then you can still do an Aimed Called shot, which gives you the extra Aimed bonus (+2, +targeting, +sniper, etc.), and requires 2 actions.

Also, a miss is a miss. If you try a Called shot and need a 15, and roll a 14, you don't hit the main body. You miss.

I like this rule for a few reasons:

1. It actually gives people the option to do Called Shots like in the old days. It's super rare in my games that a shooter wants to take 2 actions with the chance of getting interrupted like a spell caster. Related, has anyone, ever, done a 3-action Aimed Called shot?

2. It speeds up combat. My (and I'm sure most people's) biggest gripe with Palladium is how long combat takes. Increase the DPS, increase the speed of combat. With 2-action Called Shots, it decreases the DPS, thus making combat take even longer.

3. It can be applied to melee as well as range, without the oddness of a 2-action melee attack, and the ambiguity that is disarm (is melee disarm a Called shot? does it take two actions?). Also, because it still takes a 5 to hit in melee, we can just apply the delta of 7, and now a melee called shot requires a 12. Easy peasy.

Where it falls down is Sharpshooting, Marksmanship (Paratrooper; Mercenary Adventures), and any skill that gives an equal or greater bonus to Called shots than it does to Aimed shots (maybe those are the only two?). I just don't know how to factor these in. It doesn't make sense to me that, for example, the Sharpshooter's Called Shot (1-action) would have a higher strike bonus than the Sharpshooter's Aimed Shot (2-action). Or that Marksmanship would provide equal bonuses - clearly if you take longer to aim, you should get a better strike bonus. Without crippling those skills (I have a Gunslinger in my group who wouldn't be happy if I cut his Called shot bonus in half or something, though to be fair, he rarely does Called shots because they take 2 actions), how else can I apply them and have them make sense?

Any input or feedback would be greatly appreciated.

The simplest answer is to just drop the extra action requirement. After all, you already require a higher roll to succeed on a called shot, so it is already harder to pull off than a normal shot. Try that and see how it works for you. Don't overcomplicate it if you don't have to.

My GM just has actions cap at two attacks, so I'm able to do aimed called shots using only two attacks.

if you want to take shots at specific part without aiming, my house rules on shooting were "non aimed/wild shots are a flat roll and are aimed always center of mass, taking non-aimed shots at a specific part counts as firing wild"

Father Goose wrote:The simplest answer is to just drop the extra action requirement. After all, you already require a higher roll to succeed on a called shot, so it is already harder to pull off than a normal shot. Try that and see how it works for you. Don't overcomplicate it if you don't have to.

Thanks. This makes a lot of sense. For some reason my brain separates the higher bonus from the higher to-hit roll. But you're right - even if the Called shot bonus is higher than Aimed for Sharpshooting, that doesn't equate to hitting more often, because it's also harder to do.

narcissus wrote:

Father Goose wrote:The simplest answer is to just drop the extra action requirement. After all, you already require a higher roll to succeed on a called shot, so it is already harder to pull off than a normal shot. Try that and see how it works for you. Don't overcomplicate it if you don't have to.

Thanks. This makes a lot of sense. For some reason my brain separates the higher bonus from the higher to-hit roll. But you're right - even if the Called shot bonus is higher than Aimed for Sharpshooting, that doesn't equate to hitting more often, because it's also harder to do.

You're welcome.
I think we have all been guilty of misreading, transposing numbers, and over complicating things at least once. Seems a common mistake among gamers.
I recommend starting with the simple answer and see how it plays. Adjust as needed until you are happy with the results.

Simplest solution is best.

Two action called shot was introduced in RUE. Prior to that it was only one action but you needed a minimum of 12 to succeed instead of a 5 (or with a good chance of penalties for smaller targets (-3 to strike the head for example).

But choosing an arm a leg or other target other than the main body means your... wait for it... aiming at something other than what you'd normally aim at. I'd maybe allow a skill that the character can pick once that makes their default target not the main body but another location. But then in order to hit the main body they need to make a 2 action called shot. And it would severely hamper them when fighting things that have no head or analog. So while a tank turret may qualify as a suitable head analog a fighter's cockpit does not nor does a trucks cab unless it is a semi where the truck portion would be but only if it is attached to a trailer.

Picking somewhere other than where you trained to shoot should take an additional action as it is aiming. You should get an aim bonus and be able to select a location but have a more difficult time hitting.

To go along with that aiming or maybe only sniper training should give an extra +1 for each action used

So
Called shot takes 2 actions
gets +1 to strike
requires a 15+

Sniper
+1 per each additional action dedicated to shooting

Sniper with 5 actions
Called shot takes 2 actions
gets +1 to strike
requires a 15+
uses the other 3 actions on the shot to get an additional
+3
Can make the called shot on a roll of 11+

Its why previously it was a more difficult shot to make (12 instead of 5 and you couldn't use aiming bonuses)

did we ever get a theory on why there's this unique "ranged needs 8 instead of 5 to hit" rule instead of just applying a universal "-3 to hit with all ranged attacks" ?

The only reason I can think is that this would make them easier to dodge (lower number to beat) but if the -10 to dodge rule is still around, we're still talking about a relative -7 if giving a -3 to strik,e so it'd still be pretty hard.

Axelmania wrote:did we ever get a theory on why there's this unique "ranged needs 8 instead of 5 to hit" rule instead of just applying a universal "-3 to hit with all ranged attacks" ?

The only reason I can think is that this would make them easier to dodge (lower number to beat) but if the -10 to dodge rule is still around, we're still talking about a relative -7 if giving a -3 to strik,e so it'd still be pretty hard.

I think it was an evolution. I was reading Chaos Earth (p. 148) recently and it says:

Range and Targeting (the rolls to strike): When shooting at sta­tionary targets within 60 feet (18.3 m), a gunner need only exceed a roll of 5 on a roll of 1D20; 12 or higher if the target is small and a "Called Shot" is required.
In combat at a greater distance (61 feet/18.6m and farther), gunners must roll an eight or higher to strike a stationary target.

So I think it wasn't originally "melee weapons" and "range weapons", but rather actual range. If I'm at 50' and shooting a gun, I can still hit on a 5 - at least according to this ruleset. It also uses the -10 dodge rule at less than 400 feet. And then it evolved. I'm also guessing that that particular rule was probably published in some Rifts Conversion Book, GM Guide, or other canon (which Chaos Earth effectively is).

Given the number of rule changes over the years, and not to parrot what's already all over Palladium material and forums, but use whatever works for your game. This has been a hard learned lesson since I started playing/GMing again.

The 60ft rule shows up on page 39 of the RGMG (Sept 2001 printing) under Kev's Optional: Quick & Dirty Rules for modern combat. It's word-for-word the same as narcissus' quote.

I also dislike having to take two actions for a called shot. One of the main reasons for this is cinematic - it is impossible by the rules to have a showdown and shoot the gun out of the opponent's hand or hit the head or any other part other than the main body. I think there are many instances in gameplay where a desperate last ditch attempt to hit a small target that must be completed by the next action or the world will end might occur, and would make for interesting and fun gameplay.
Making the target number higher, like 12 or 15 (i.e. -3 for smaller targets) works fine - and I would also rule that if it misses, it misses, not hitting the main body - otherwise there is no penalty for attempting called shots every time.

Alternatively, a quick and easy option would be to just rule that a one-action called shot counts as wild (so -6 to strike).

General Thoughts:
1. You can always attempt to shoot something other than the Main Body in a single action; you just require a Natural 20 to hit that location.
2. I don't know that it's ever established officially where that second required action with Called Shots comes from, whether it's required to be spent first, or second, or if it can come off the tail end. But if only as a house rule, I've found it makes things smoother to allow 2-action attacks to come off the back. So they take one 1 action worth of time; you just take 2 actions off your total, if you follow. You run out of attacks sooner, but that's often worth it, and it makes it easier for players to invest that second attack (or third, in some cases, or even more than that).
3. Regardless of how you run Called Shots themselves, the easiest, simplest, and most realistic way to encourage people to use Called Shots is to have combatants use cover during combat. If somebody's behind cover, and you're not, then they can shoot you with impunity while you need to either spend the time to blow through their cover OR you need to spend an extra attack to make a Called Shot in order to hit them.
4. When RUE came out with the new Called Shot rules, they scrapped the target number; as long as you hit the target at all with your Called Shot, you hit the location you want.
So it makes sense to allow for a kind of one-attack instant Called Shot that uses some form of the older rules, like the target number of 12.
Bumping the number up to 15 makes sense for the reasons mentioned in the OP, but it doesn't need to replace the RUE Called Shot rules; it can supplement them as another way to do things when you're short on time.
5. Requiring (or allowing) the action to be spent Calling a shot (or Aiming, for that matter) up front allows for some interesting and cinematic situations, like that situation where there's a bunch of guys all Aiming guns at each other, but nobody's firing yet. It allows for time for somebody to try to talk things down.
It allows for scenes like in The Immortals with Eric Roberts, where there's a dozen people all in a kitchen pointing guns at each other, lining up shots like dominoes, and if ONE person fires, everybody gets shot.
It allows for scenes like the "I have a gun under the table, and it's aimed at your testicles" scene from Inglorious Basterds.
It allows for all KINDS of cool stuff, although it's a bit undermined if everybody is fully armored up enough that they can all take a few hits before dying. Or if your players just shoot everything all the time regardless of consequences.
6. If you want to play out scenes like the old-school western showdown where one guy shoots the gun out of the other person's hand, you could allow people to spend that first attack "Calling" their shot mentally more than physically. They've only got one opponent. They've got a specific plan to shoot the gun out of the guy's hand. They spend an action mentally plotting out their move before anybody's guns are actually drawn, while the two opponents are staring each other down.
So you can still get that effect, even if you require Calling to take an action up front, if you tweak your mental definition of "Calling a Shot" a bit.
IIRC, the only description of what it takes to Call a shot is the metagame action of the PLAYER telling the GM he's going to shoot opponent X in hit location Y on his next attack.

I simply made it so players wanting to take a called shot without 2 actions took a -10 to the action but taking the 2 turns brought it down to the regular penalty. Harsh but it can speed up killing weaker foes.

ShonicBurn wrote:I simply made it so players wanting to take a called shot without 2 actions took a -10 to the action but taking the 2 turns brought it down to the regular penalty. Harsh but it can speed up killing weaker foes.

I actually like this a lot. Doesn't require any rule changing, and just adds a one-action option. Though I'm leaning towards -6 since that's the standard wild shot penalty. So it would be like a wild called shot. I think I might try this at my next session.

I agree

Soldier of Od wrote:Alternatively, a quick and easy option would be to just rule that a one-action called shot counts as wild (so -6 to strike).

Soldier of Od wrote:I agree

Soldier of Od wrote:Alternatively, a quick and easy option would be to just rule that a one-action called shot counts as wild (so -6 to strike).

I know when I was playing a character consistently she got rather brutal, in that a lot of people would say she was cheating.
1 she had more than 10 actions/melee
she had multiple trained hand to hand forms.
she had multiple OCC's
character was level 8 or 9 special forces
gunfighter (don't remember the exact level)
also due to events in the campaign she was also a godling/minor god
hand to hand forms
Rifts main book Martial Arts
ninjas and super spys Ninjutsu
the hand to hand that is essentially "gunfu"
and a form that the GM made that included techniques that dramatically increased pp/speed (and attacks)
one of the techniques training, was to work up to the point where you were able to retrieve an item from a stream, or container of water, without getting wet (character that created the technique originally was a vampire that dropped a sword into a stream and kept working at it until she finally got the sword back)

the characters weapons of choice were:
ranged, old style chemarrian railgun effectively the 6000 with 10 MDC, and a Neuroni Plasma cartridge pistol.
melee, a Rune Katana, and a plasma/laser sword from a certain movie series.

when doing ranged attacks against Coalition (especially SAMAS) she ended up needing to replace a lot of helmets, as she commonly fired 1 or 2 shots at the head, and usually ended up killing the pilots

jaymz wrote:Its why previously it was a more difficult shot to make (12 instead of 5 and you couldn't use aiming bonuses)

One way to reconcile the two Called Shot action/attack requirements...

They both apply, you declare how many actions you want to spend on the called shot (1 or 2). A Called Shot with 1 action has the target number (12 previously, not sure if it needs adjustment with the range attack minimum change in RUE) and if you miss the target number but are above the strike minimum you hit the main body instead of making the called shot. A Called Shot with 2 actions lowers the target number (penalties can still apply) to the strike minimum for ranged combat (8 now), but a miss is a straight out miss instead of a possible "twitch" to the main body.

This makes making a called shot a bit more complex, but also allow for situations where you might NOT want to run the risk of a hit other to another location (like main body) for some reason.

narcissus wrote:

ShonicBurn wrote:I simply made it so players wanting to take a called shot without 2 actions took a -10 to the action but taking the 2 turns brought it down to the regular penalty. Harsh but it can speed up killing weaker foes.

I actually like this a lot. Doesn't require any rule changing, and just adds a one-action option. Though I'm leaning towards -6 since that's the standard wild shot penalty. So it would be like a wild called shot. I think I might try this at my next session.

Soldier of Od wrote:I agree

Soldier of Od wrote:Alternatively, a quick and easy option would be to just rule that a one-action called shot counts as wild (so -6 to strike).

So I also considered ruling called shots without using 2 actions as wild. However called shots usually come with disabling effects and standard -6 penalty to achieve something extraordinary felt a little cheep to allow so I added the extra penalty that way players wouldn't use it every single combat encounter.

ShonicBurn wrote:

narcissus wrote:

ShonicBurn wrote:I simply made it so players wanting to take a called shot without 2 actions took a -10 to the action but taking the 2 turns brought it down to the regular penalty. Harsh but it can speed up killing weaker foes.

I actually like this a lot. Doesn't require any rule changing, and just adds a one-action option. Though I'm leaning towards -6 since that's the standard wild shot penalty. So it would be like a wild called shot. I think I might try this at my next session.

Soldier of Od wrote:I agree

Soldier of Od wrote:Alternatively, a quick and easy option would be to just rule that a one-action called shot counts as wild (so -6 to strike).

So I also considered ruling called shots without using 2 actions as wild. However called shots usually come with disabling effects and standard -6 penalty to achieve something extraordinary felt a little cheep to allow so I added the extra penalty that way players wouldn't use it every single combat encounter.

Cool - whatever works for you is great

1) my home-brew philosophy is to re-write and adjust the skill that creates the irritating conflict
2) a called-shot, if missed never hits the main body, (so a cost/benefit choice for player)
3) an aimed called shot may hit the main body if roll is high enough but costs extra action (so a cost/benefit choice for player)

Simply apply the penalties to strike from Compendium of Contemporary Weapons:
-5 for head (more for neck, eyes, ears etc) -3 for arms (more for hands), -2 for legs (more for groin/feet)

So on an aimed-called shot, if the player WOULD have struct if the above penalty was not imposed, it strikes the main body.