1st ed Rules Questions

[Mouth]

Hi there, after 20+ years I have returned to the Palladium FRPG 1ed, mainly because I had such fond memories of playing in high school, but also to see if the system still holds up after all these years, and also because we live in the time of Covid and it was something to do remotely via Roll20. Sadly, I'd rather be playing than GMing, but isn't that always the case... any who, my group does find it enjoyable and so I'm keeping it going. However, now I have a few questions on how others have interpreted the rules of the game. I know the system can be a little vague in places, and I'm pretty sure there is not going to be any definitive answers, but I'd like to hear the opinions of other players/GMs. Also, I have searched through the other posts, and have not seen answers to these questions... if they are out there already, I apologize, and will gladly accept a link to that thread.

First, how does the Automatic Parry of the the Man of Arms work when you change classes? For instance, you have a Thief that now wants to be a Wizard or vise versa? If the Wizard became a thief, it seems obvious that he would get the auto parry once the character is using those skills in combat, but would a Thief that changes to a Wizard class still have the auto parry now that he has given up his brutish fighting days in pursuit of the mystic arts? The biggest perk of being a fighter-type is the auto parry, if everyone could just start out as a Soldier, and then switch to a non-fighter class and retain the auto-parry, then why wouldn't you? So at the same time it seems a bit OP, but then again, changing to a fighter doesn't mean the former Wizard can't cast spells... so it feels like there needs to be some benefit of the fighter to remain in the new OCC.

Second, damage bonuses on ranged attacks. If you have a high P.S., I get that you physically hit harder, perhaps you even throw a knife or battle-axe with a bit more "oomph", but I assume it does not translate to any bow/sling type weapons. However the damage bonuses gained through a Hand to Hand elective seem to be less about brute force, and more about the skill of where to hit someone to provide maximum damage. So it makes sense to me that these bonuses would apply to any ranged weapons (bows, slings, etc.), how do others deal with this?

Third, mixed attacks, if you have a Wizard or other character attacking from range they would use the Rate of Fire or the number of spells based on their Magic Combat for their number of attacks, but how do you handle this if the character wants to then change mid round to a physical attack or to use a physical attack for another action like a dodge/item/etc...? Here are some examples:

1) A Wizard is casting fireballs from range but someone shoots an arrow at them, they have 1 attack per melee, do they get to use their attack as a dodge or is that sacrificed because they are casting spells and all of their concentration is going into that?

2 A Longbowman has a rate of 4, and 2 attacks per melee. Can his physical attacks be used for dodges while he is shooting, and would they be reduced by the number of ranged attacks he has made so far that round, as in if he has shot twice, he would actually have only one attack left to dodge, and round it down accordingly (i.e., 1 or 2 shots, would take up the first attack, and 3-4 the second) ? I assume this would work the same if they wanted to shoot, and then engage in physical combat mid-round, but then you have the issue of switching weapons which I have assumed also costs actions/attacks.

3) A Wizard has one attack, and two spell attacks per melee. Could the Wizard make a physical attack and then cast a spell, or is it a "one or the other" type situation? Similarly if they have W.P. Crossbow/Sling/bow and leverage their Rate of Fire for the round can they also slip in a spell like in the example above?

Finally, the Shadow Beast spell. It states the differences in profile for light and shadow, but specifically states that it cannot attack from shadow. So if it always has to step out of the shadow to attack, does that mean it is always going to be the 45hp version when it attacks, unless it is in a completely dark space or a Darkness spell is in effect? Or is it only the weakened version when in a very bright environment, and so unless subject to a spell like Sphere of Daylight, or in the middle of a field at high noon they would be the 90hp version? How do people handle this?

I think I probably have more questions, but these are the big ones that keep me up at night. Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

[kiralon]

Hi there, after 20+ years I have returned to the Palladium FRPG 1ed, mainly because I had such fond memories of playing in high school, but also to see if the system still holds up after all these years, and also because we live in the time of Covid and it was something to do remotely via Roll20. Sadly, I'd rather be playing than GMing, but isn't that always the case... any who, my group does find it enjoyable and so I'm keeping it going. However, now I have a few questions on how others have interpreted the rules of the game. I know the system can be a little vague in places, and I'm pretty sure there is not going to be any definitive answers, but I'd like to hear the opinions of other players/GMs. Also, I have searched through the other posts, and have not seen answers to these questions... if they are out there already, I apologize, and will gladly accept a link to that thread.

First, how does the Automatic Parry of the the Man of Arms work when you change classes? For instance, you have a Thief that now wants to be a Wizard or vise versa? If the Wizard became a thief, it seems obvious that he would get the auto parry once the character is using those skills in combat, but would a Thief that changes to a Wizard class still have the auto parry now that he has given up his brutish fighting days in pursuit of the mystic arts? The biggest perk of being a fighter-type is the auto parry, if everyone could just start out as a Soldier, and then switch to a non-fighter class and retain the auto-parry, then why wouldn't you? So at the same time it seems a bit OP, but then again, changing to a fighter doesn't mean the former Wizard can't cast spells... so it feels like there needs to be some benefit of the fighter to remain in the new OCC.

Second, damage bonuses on ranged attacks. If you have a high P.S., I get that you physically hit harder, perhaps you even throw a knife or battle-axe with a bit more "oomph", but I assume it does not translate to any bow/sling type weapons. However the damage bonuses gained through a Hand to Hand elective seem to be less about brute force, and more about the skill of where to hit someone to provide maximum damage. So it makes sense to me that these bonuses would apply to any ranged weapons (bows, slings, etc.), how do others deal with this?

Third, mixed attacks, if you have a Wizard or other character attacking from range they would use the Rate of Fire or the number of spells based on their Magic Combat for their number of attacks, but how do you handle this if the character wants to then change mid round to a physical attack or to use a physical attack for another action like a dodge/item/etc...? Here are some examples:

1) A Wizard is casting fireballs from range but someone shoots an arrow at them, they have 1 attack per melee, do they get to use their attack as a dodge or is that sacrificed because they are casting spells and all of their concentration is going into that?

2 A Longbowman has a rate of 4, and 2 attacks per melee. Can his physical attacks be used for dodges while he is shooting, and would they be reduced by the number of ranged attacks he has made so far that round, as in if he has shot twice, he would actually have only one attack left to dodge, and round it down accordingly (i.e., 1 or 2 shots, would take up the first attack, and 3-4 the second) ? I assume this would work the same if they wanted to shoot, and then engage in physical combat mid-round, but then you have the issue of switching weapons which I have assumed also costs actions/attacks.

3) A Wizard has one attack, and two spell attacks per melee. Could the Wizard make a physical attack and then cast a spell, or is it a "one or the other" type situation? Similarly if they have W.P. Crossbow/Sling/bow and leverage their Rate of Fire for the round can they also slip in a spell like in the example above?

Finally, the Shadow Beast spell. It states the differences in profile for light and shadow, but specifically states that it cannot attack from shadow. So if it always has to step out of the shadow to attack, does that mean it is always going to be the 45hp version when it attacks, unless it is in a completely dark space or a Darkness spell is in effect? Or is it only the weakened version when in a very bright environment, and so unless subject to a spell like Sphere of Daylight, or in the middle of a field at high noon they would be the 90hp version? How do people handle this?

I think I probably have more questions, but these are the big ones that keep me up at night. Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

Wizards can't cast in hth combat, so auto parrying and casting isn't really an issue. I don't play it like that, I borrowed attacks of opportunity from d&d, so a caster can cast in combat, but anyone next to him can get 1 free action against him per round, and he has to roll 1d20 and add his level as caster and willpower (one of a few stats i added) bonus or have his spellcasting for the rounddisrupted. I also use the XP negative for going from a men at at arms to non men at arms or vice versa, so a soldier who goes to wizard needs double the xp to go up levels.

With the longbowman its either #attacks or ROF, not both, but i do play if he has had less ROF then attacks he can still use atm, but if he wants his 4 rof he cant use any attacks per round at all (i.e dodge, he is rapid firing and that takes dedication and concentration) so if the guy in the example has fired 1 arrow, he can use 1 action to dodge and thats it, if he has shot 2 arrows all he can do is continue firing.) So its a one or the other (my interpretation though)

I don't add the hth combat damage to ranged attacks unless the occ is longbowman.

With the shadow beat it steps out of someone shadow, but can stay in the shadow so wont halve in toughness, i also play they have to be in the light for 1 complete action round to be halved in power.

[ZorValachan]

I'm kind of doing the same as you. There is a "recent" thread (from last year) on rpg.net that goes through the whole 1st edition book.

From reading it again there are a lot of "implied" but not flat out stated. It seems to me there are 5 ways of combat.

Hand to hand: this is up close with fists and hand held weapons. It uses the various hand to hand bonuses and attacks, etc. *the only except is the Long Bowman crit with a bow. PP bonuses and WP weapon bonuses add together along with the HtH bonuses
Magic: you get your 1 or 2 spell attacks if you get hit and take any damage, you have a 90% chance of any spell cast being a failure. If you get into hand to hand, you cannot cast spells. You basically stop doing what you are doing and have to wait until the next round (not turn) to go hand to hand or if you get out of hand to hand to do more spells casting
Psionics can mix with hand to hand, but only a max of 2 powers can be used.
Missile (non-thrown) use a rate of fire andit can get almost double of hand to hand. These don't mix your sacrificing the PS bonus to have a chance of hitting more times. I do allow PP bonuses, WP Targeting, WP specific weapon to stack.
Thrown. This is a weird one. Just with the main book, i'd be tempted to say it was like HtH, but in Old Ones, Juggling is introduced and has a start of 3 thrown attacks. I don;t see this as stacking. In my game i'll allow 1 thrown without juggling, but with it you can get juggling for the rate of fire, and WP targeting bonuses, PP bonuses, WP knife (or whatever) and I do allow PS to damage as it's your strength throwing it.

I'm sure people will disagree, but with this system. it puts men of arms in a place where if they can get up close they can ruin anyone's day (knocking them out of any other of the "stances"), but can get picked off at range. They need to protect the casters on their side, ranged need to damage and keep casters on the other side damaged (and 90% failing spells( until the hth people can engage.

And as brought up casting/hth don;t mix (hth wins) to that auto-parry won't come up at the same time as casting. if your caster casts a spell and is then engaged he loses everything as hth and casting don't mix.
Again it is not flat out stated by heavily implied when you read everything.

This was NOT how I did it in the 1980s-early 90s. I'm not sure if I read things differently, glosses over things or what. But i know i read the rules front to back hundreds of times. I probably just didn't like it and changed it.

I highly recommend that whatever you decide tell your players so there is no confusion after the game starts,

Side note: a house rule i use is only 1d6 HP is gained per highest level. So if you 4th level wizard goes to another OCC, he needs to get to 5th before gaining more HP. It's contrary to the rules, but it lessens the urge to dip into all available OCCs for a quick HP once you get to a level that the exp is cheaper.

I also give Men of arms 1d6 HP more to start and that is a one and done deal. If others (Magic/clergy) switch they get it too but just once. Just a little something to make men of arms have a little bonus.

[kiralon]

I do exactly the same with hp as well, and give cumulative negative experience for changing classes and also reduce the number of skills the new class gets.
Thrown i allow 1 item per attack, unless they have juggling.
I have a perception stat and that is what gives ranged bonuses to strike (including spells), not PP
I have a willpower stat that gives bonuses to spell strength and bonuses to save vs magic, rather than PE
I have a luck stat the characters can use like isp or ppe for rerolls, but each point under 9 gives a modifier to random encounters.
I have perks
I use magic from 2nd ed dnd, 2nd ed palladium, rolemaster, and dragonwarriors.
I use holistic medecine as potion making, a bit like morrowind (each ingredient has a good point and several bad points, and the better you roll the stronger the good point and have the bad points removed/lessened).
I use turn dead from d&d as the palladium version is pretty much a waste of time.
I have warrior priests that follow a warrior god and dont get spells but do get an ok hth style and autoparry
I have caster priests that follow a caster god and get hth non men at arms and no auto parry (except for a perk).
Healers use 2nd ed abilities too, and a far superior combat healers
Priests of healer gods are superior out of combat healers.
I use extra combat rules from other games, have martial artists out of N&S