Sixth Sense

[Veknironth]

Well, this is an annoying power but my PC who just got himself killed rolled up a Mind Mage (MM) and took it again. So, I guess I should crowd source suggestions. I searched and there are something like 1100 suggested results. No thanks.

So, the initial use is obvious something dangerous is about to happen to the MM or some friend or loved one nearby. The MM then gets bonuses to the first round and can't be attacked from behind. Now, Does the power take into account that it's going to alert the person, who will take some action, and then the would be attacker decides not to attack? I say no. It just "reads" the intent of the attacker somehow.

Once combat is started, how often does it go off? The power is triggered by impending combat, but then in the second round someone is going to fire at the MM. Would it trigger again? And then a round later, somoene casts a spell or uses power against the MM. Would that trigger it a third time? What if someone wants to loop around the front line and attack the MM but can't get through just yet, but might within four melee rounds. Would that trigger the ability? This could aid the MM greatly in combat but also be a drain on the old ISP.

Also, what ability would be the best to detect an inserted memory? My best guess is Psychic Diagnosis. Any thoughts?

-Vek
"Never trust a Mind Mage."

[Kraynic]

I would say combat is what would set it off. And since it doesn't differentiate between someone planning to throw a rock at your friend's head and someone about to backstab you with the ultimate rune weapon of PC slaying, I don't see the benefit of keeping it going.

It triggers when there is danger to the psion or a party member that is within 90ft. of the psion.
It triggers without imparting any knowledge of what the danger is or where it is coming from.
It triggers from something happening within the next minute (4 melees) of the alert.

If a player really wants to use this during combat, you would probably have to somehow plan (and maybe roll?) the enemy's actions at least 4 melees ahead. It might trigger for a crit. It might trigger if the enemy is using a very potent poison. It might trigger for certain spells. I know that I wouldn't be willing to do that as a DM. I would just have it trigger just before an ambush, and then when someone low on health is being attacked or something.

On the other hand, does that mean an ambush to capture/trap the PCs won't trigger it if the enemies don't explicitly intend to kill the PCs? I could see that being an annoying shortcoming for someone wanting to use this all the time.

[Veknironth]

Well, it doesn't cover the entire group. It only covers close friends or loved ones. I know that my particular group of misanthropes are not friends so no worries there. But it could happen that someone attacks a group member, which doesn't trigger the power, but then someone else attacks the PC a round later, which does trigger the power. I think it's tied to intent and the advanced warning is a maximum time. So, if somoene attacks and kills a person in the group it won't trigger the 6th sense. But as soon as the attacker decides to switch targets, it would trigger.

The real question comes with the sneak attack from behind. It says the PC can't be sneak attacked but it also says that the PC won't know from where an attack will come. That doesn't make sense to me. If you don't know the attack is coming from the back/side/front, how are you immune from a sneak attack?

Also, the power clearly says it's involuntary so there is no planning.

[kiralon]

Remember it's triggered by unexpected life threatening events "The sixth sense is only triggered by an unexpected, life threatening event which is already set into motion and will happen any second". If its an invisible wizard about to cast carpet of adhesion it wont trigger, if you are confronted by an ambush that actually stops and says your money or your life, since you have to decide that won't trigger it either. A hidden person shooting an arrow at you won't trigger that either because that isn't life threatening unless you have a tiny amount of hp and sdc, if the action cant kill you its not life threatening.
The enemy monologuing and end it with now you all must die isn't unexpected so no bonus.

In fact a lot of the time the bonus does not kick in just for those 2 reasons, but would activate every time there was a trigger.

Not sure if a group of archers about to fire should activate it multiple times or once, but i would say it would be limited to activating once every action per melee.

And i 'd go with see aura for detecting as well

[Kraynic]

"The sixth sense is only triggered by an unexpected, life threatening event which is already set into motion and will happen any second".

Huh, I guess I didn't read that far into the description, or wasn't paying attention by the time I got there. I'm not sure if that reinforces or contradicts the "within the next minute (4 melees)" statement that happens earlier in the description or not.

[Veknironth]

Well, I think See Aura is a bit light to determine if there is an inserted memory. I wouldn't expect that to appear in the aura. Mind Bond is one power that I think would work but who's going to let someone see everything the know?

Regarding the life threatening part that is vague enough to have some play. I think it has to trigger for more than just when you're low on HP. For things which are one time only, like a single use ward or a trap, then if it's not life threatening it wouldn't trigger it. However, if there is some force, be it a permanent ward, entity, or what have you, then the means and intent should matter. Sure the lone archer might not be able to kill in one attack, but the archer intendeds on shooting until the MM is dead and the archer has enough arrows to make that happen. The power should trigger as long as the archer is within 90 feet and intends to shoot. It wouldn't trigger once the MM has only 6 HP left and the next arrow COULD kill him or her. That would just be a medical alert, I think.

It does raise another question. If the archer is 100ft away then the power wouldn't trigger until the shaft is loosed and on its way. Once it gets within 90 feet it will trigger the power. If you figure the arrow is traveling 150ft/second on the low end, that gives the MM about half a second to react. Could the MM react in that time? Humans can react in less than half a second, so I guess so. Maybe they could erect a TK forecfield if it's actually instanteous, but any other physical reaction is impossible.

Now, let's assume the MM is triggered by the archer firing at him or her. Then the power would be triggered for the first rouna and give the bonuses. If the MM takes cover and hides but there is a different threat (another archer, a trap, a melee combatant approaching, etc.) wouldn't that trigger it a second time? It's a new threat. Now, if the MM is in hand to hand combat and there's a persistent, obvious threat would the power alert him or her to someone sneaking up from behind or a mage preparing a firebolt for his or her back? It seems it would.

I still don't know how to circle the square of "The character will not know what the danger is or where it will come from." vs "The character cannot be surprised by a sneak attack from behind." The only way to not be surprised by a sneak attack from behind is to know there is a sneak attack coming from behind you. But the character won't know where it's coming from. Which is it? I guess it's up to the GM.

-Vek
"Never Trust a Mind Mage."

[kiralon]

With see aura i guess it depends on whether you think an inserted memory is a serious aberration, i think so, and see aura also shows whether you have psionics or not so i would play it that way.

I play sixth sense as a free action to react to an impending unknown potentially fatal threat, and haven't bothered with ranges as i think its supposed to be the spidersense, so for example, being snuck up from behind, you get a warning so you can look around and not get surprised, but if its invisible and you can't see it it can still surprise attack you from behind. Or if you are going to be shot by an arrow you can get a free dodge. It play it a little differently if you are in combat because there are so many other potential threats.

[Library Ogre]

I tend to play it as "Sixth Sense goes off when combat, or a life-threatening situation, is imminent. It does not go off again until the situation has resolved itself, except in the case of a completely separate event happening."

So, if you or someone you care about who is within 90' of you is about to get attacked, it will trigger. It won't trigger again because the bad guys have reinforcements coming, but it will trigger if your fight has destabilized the hillside and it is going to sweep you all away in a mudslide. Because it is precognitive, rather than telepathic, it works just fine if your opponent is mind blocked... you get a flash from the future, not feel their hostility or whatever.

[Prysus]

Well, this is an annoying power but my PC who just got himself killed rolled up a Mind Mage (MM) and took it again. So, I guess I should crowd source suggestions. I searched and there are something like 1100 suggested results. No thanks.

Greetings and Salutations. Before going into the specific questions, I'll give some general notes regarding Sixth Sense.

The sixth sense is only triggered by an unexpected, life threatening event which is already set into motion.

1) Unexpected ... this means if the group is going into a dangerous dungeon, enemy's lair, haunted mansion, etc. they know danger is high then it's not as likely to go off. Now, if they believe they're genuinely safe then sure, it will still alert them. And yes, there comes the point when someone is after you and you may never feel safe and I think it should still work in this regards. My point is when you are knowingly going into a hostile/dangerous environment it won't work. If you're in the villain's lair it won't tell you the floor is trapped or that an armed battalion is around the corner.

2) Life threatening ... if it isn't with the intent to kill, there is no warning. Capturing, knocking out, or poisoning to make them sick is just fine (considering the intent isn't to kill them but to subdue, rob, or otherwise not kill them).

3) Set into motion and will happen any second ... this has to be something planned or set. There was a comment on the boards about two players, one had sixth sense. The character made some comment to the other resulting in being attacked and killed, but wondering why his sixth sense didn't go off. Why? Well, a GM can't predict what a player will do for one, but secondly it wasn't set in motion. The player wasn't planning to do it, but the comment set things in motion which wouldn't have happened otherwise.

4) There is the range factor which people will argue. I believe in Rifts: Ultimate Edition it was stated the source of the danger has to be within 90 feet of the psychic to activate which many don't like making it useless. I personally disagree (this is a minor power, not a major, it's not meant to be all powerful but a minor asset) and have played it this way long before R:UE ever came out. This one I leave to your discretion though and some others may offer a reason why it should be ruled differently.

So, the initial use is obvious something dangerous is about to happen to the MM or some friend or loved one nearby. The MM then gets bonuses to the first round and can't be attacked from behind. Now, Does the power take into account that it's going to alert the person, who will take some action, and then the would be attacker decides not to attack? I say no. It just "reads" the intent of the attacker somehow.

I wouldn't say reading the intent, but (as Mark Hall mentioned) it's closer to Clairvoyance than Telepathy. So my ultimate question is typically: If the players do nothing, will they die? If the answer is yes, then it can be set off. If the answer is no, then it will not be set off. What happens after can vary, and I'll provide some example situations (which are mostly just minor edits to previous posts I've made) in a Spoiler tag at the end of the Sixth Sense questions.

Once combat is started, how often does it go off? The power is triggered by impending combat, but then in the second round someone is going to fire at the MM. Would it trigger again? And then a round later, somoene casts a spell or uses power against the MM. Would that trigger it a third time? What if someone wants to loop around the front line and attack the MM but can't get through just yet, but might within four melee rounds. Would that trigger the ability? This could aid the MM greatly in combat but also be a drain on the old ISP.

The Duration is "Until the danger passes or happens." The combat bonuses "apply only to the initial melee round when the attack occurs." So the character won't have bonuses until combat starts. Combined with the Duration, this indicates (to me) that the power will remain active beyond the first melee round, but the bonuses are lost. So my usual question in this case is: Is the character still in danger? If the answer is yes, then it won't trigger again since it's still active. If the answer is no, then it can trigger again.

It does raise another question. If the archer is 100ft away then the power wouldn't trigger until the shaft is loosed and on its way. Once it gets within 90 feet it will trigger the power. If you figure the arrow is traveling 150ft/second on the low end, that gives the MM about half a second to react. Could the MM react in that time?

I'm not really sure it would go off at all. That's really a judgment call. Though RUE mentions a flash flood as an example so ... *shrugs.* Maybe? This is something that a G.M. will have to decide what works best for their game.

I still don't know how to circle the square of "The character will not know what the danger is or where it will come from." vs "The character cannot be surprised by a sneak attack from behind." The only way to not be surprised by a sneak attack from behind is to know there is a sneak attack coming from behind you. But the character won't know where it's coming from. Which is it? I guess it's up to the GM.

If the Mind Mage is walking down the road and Sixth Sense goes off, he know danger will happen in 1 minute or less, but not sure from where. This could be a party member planning to stab him in the back, a group of bandits preparing an ambush, a very angry dragon is about to teleport on top of their location, someone rifted in a tactical nuke in a suitcase that's 90 feet away but otherwise completely out of sight. Basically, the danger could be anything. However, the best way I'd say it is that the Mind Mage is effectively on high alert.

So, the Mind Mage doesn't know a Troll is waiting under the bridge and about to attack. However, if something attacks the Mind Mage directly, s/he can respond with lightning reflexes. This allows it to be true that they did not know where the danger was coming from, and also allows the character to react to the danger in time.

Spoiler:

Situation A: Mind Mage(s) with Sixth Sense are being stalked by a monster fully capable of killing them. In a direct fight, the player characters could (easily) kill the monster. However, the monster is going to surprise attack them. An initial surprise attack could kill someone (in theory, like that gunshot to the head). If the players roll Natural 1s and the monster rolls Natural 20s it could kill more. Sixth Sense would go off before it attacks.

Situation B: An adult Dragon with Sixth Sense is being stalked by a human with a dagger. Even if the dragon stood in place and do nothing while the human slashed away for an hour and the dragon would still be fine. No Sixth Sense.

Situation C: Mind Mage(s) with Sixth Sense are being stalked by a monster fully capable of killing them. In a direct fight, the player characters could (easily) kill the monster. The monster isn't going to ambush them though, and walks up to them, challenging them to direct combat. No Sixth Sense (because it won't be "unexpected" as it was upfront about the battle).

Situation D: Mind Mage(s) with Sixth Sense are being stalked by a monster fully capable of killing them. In a direct fight, the player characters could (easily) kill the monster. The monster isn't going to ambush them though, and walks up to them, challenging them to direct combat claiming he won't kill them (though he's hoping they'll let their guard down and then kill them anyways, bwuhahahahaha!!!). Sixth Sense would go off (because it's still unexpected, and if the characters do not prevent him, then the monster will kill them, even though stopping him isn't necessarily a challenge). Note: Of course, Sixth Sense going off doesn't mean the monster is lying. It could be that second monster lurking in the bushes, or a something stalking the monster is now planning to ambush them, or the sounds of the fight will start an avalanche that might kill them all, etc.

Situation E: Mind Mage(s) with Sixth Sense are being stalked by a group of monsters fully capable of killing them. The ambush starts and no Sixth Sense (non-lethal). Realizing it's not lethal, meaning the monsters probably want them alive (for whatever reason), the characters charge into the midst of the swarm without concern (not in mortal danger afterall) and perform some other actions which really pin (and endanger) the monsters. Seeing the course of the battle change, their boss authorizes his minions to use lethal force. Sixth Sense now goes off ... and they better rethink their strategy fast because they only have one action (or maybe two if they're lucky) before it gets lethal!

Situation F: Mind Mage with Sixth Sense is traveling with other party members. The Mind Mage makes some comment that really sets off another party member who now tries to kill the Mind Mage. Events had not been set in motion until the Mind Mage made a comment. Sixth Sense goes off right as the battle is about to start. No preparation time.

Situation G: Flash flood, avalanche, etc. These are random acts that are not guaranteed to kill. However, in such situations, I'd favor the player characters and say they're lethal. If they survive (even if just by chance), I'd gladly argue that their awareness of the threat tilted the odds in their favor of survival.

Situation H: Mind Mage(s) with Sixth Sense are being stalked by a group of bandits planning an ambush as soon as the party gets closer. That moment (at current speed) will happen in 1 minute. Sixth Sense goes off. The Mind Mage stops, meditates for 15 seconds, and creates a Psi-Sword to prepare for the upcoming danger. However, a minute passes and nothing happens. The characters continue moving forward and ... nothing happens. Sixth Sense eventually goes off (maybe it did earlier). After seeing the Psi-Sword, the bandits realized the character was a Mind Mage and, after a small argument, decided to NOT start a fight with a mind god. Sixth Sense went off, but the character's actions changed the danger and nullified it without their knowledge.

So the player characters can take actions that turn a non-lethal situation into a lethal one (and that's their fault, and I may or may not give them warning depending on the specific situation, such as the example I gave in Situation E & F. As a G.M., all I can do is control the NPC and the rest of nature. However, since as G.M. those fall under my domain, I know if they're going to be potentially lethal or not. That's not really relative though. If the player characters don't stop X from killing them, then they will die. Whether or not X is easy or difficult to stop isn't important, only that X will kill them.

Also, what ability would be the best to detect an inserted memory? My best guess is Psychic Diagnosis. Any thoughts?

Not a clue. Palladium doesn't generally indicate such things. Maybe Detect Psionics, which can detect a Group Mind Block as well as psychic possession (PF2, page 163). That's just a guess though.

Hope some of that helps. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[Omnibane]

I could be wrong but in general it's up to the GM and not the players what constitutes imminent danger and life threatening

If the player doesn't like it and wants to be alerted to all threats you could have a Syven stalk him with there natural emotion sense and mind mage abilities they could just wait till they drop there guard since they are cunning it's not unreasonable for a Syven to relentlessly hunt the player or party waiting for the best time to strike and drain 2isp per trigger till they run out. Admittedly a evil idea.

The easiest solution is you can always customize it since you're the GM