Forums of the Megaverse®

So the first introduction of the Wilk's 457 was way back in Sourcebook 1, where the shot capacity for it was given as 30 for a standard e-clip or 40 for a long e-clip. When it was reprinted New West, it was stated as having 30 single shots per standard long e-clip (what is a standard long e-clip). Finally, when they cane out with the Revised Sourcebook 1, the reprinted yet again, saying that it had 36 single shots or 12 burst per long e-clip.

So here is my question. How many shots can you get out of it from a standard e-clip?

When in doubt, go with the latest printing.

Or assume there are multiple manufacturers for magazines and each answer is correct.

Today, I can buy a magazine for 10- to 30-rounds for my AR-15.

i think "standard long" is just them failing to catch a typo considering how many times new west says "standard short E-Clip", and they just....let it slide.....

Orin J. wrote:i think "standard long" is just them failing to catch a typo considering how many times new west says "standard short E-Clip", and they just....let it slide.....

I think you're right.

It's all in the editing (or lack of) between books. There are so many people writing books and they don't feed off a central standard.

I'm hazarding a guess that the capacity in SB1R was changed to a number better divisible by three due to the pulse shot.

dragonfett wrote:So here is my question. How many shots can you get out of it from a standard e-clip?

I'll toss out a non-traditional answer: It can't.

If you look at the Wilk's 447 (same page in SB1R) it states that it can not use a long e-clip. Which means there's a significant difference between a short and long e-clip. So the Wilk's 457 may be unable to use a short e-clip.

Shamrock 'Slinger wrote:I'm hazarding a guess that the capacity in SB1R was changed to a number better divisible by three due to the pulse shot.

i mean, it already WAS. i think it was more there was a typo and the next writer assumed it wasn't because of lack of context.

Orin J. wrote:

Shamrock 'Slinger wrote:I'm hazarding a guess that the capacity in SB1R was changed to a number better divisible by three due to the pulse shot.

i mean, it already WAS. i think it was more there was a typo and the next writer assumed it wasn't because of lack of context.

Yeah I overlooked that reading and only saw the 40. Could be a typo in that regard.

Shamrock 'Slinger wrote:I'm hazarding a guess that the capacity in SB1R was changed to a number better divisible by three due to the pulse shot.

Except in the Original SB1 it already had a shot capacity with a standard e-clip that was easily divisible by 3 (30), it was the long e-clip that the number was no longer easily divisible by 3 (40).

Mack wrote:

dragonfett wrote:So here is my question. How many shots can you get out of it from a standard e-clip?

I'll toss out a non-traditional answer: It can't.

If you look at the Wilk's 447 (same page in SB1R) it states that it can not use a long e-clip. Which means there's a significant difference between a short and long e-clip. So the Wilk's 457 may be unable to use a short e-clip.

And I would be fine with that if it had never been printed as being able to accept a long e-clip, but it had been (original SB1).

Well, this must be one of the few times a weapon isn't completely copy pasted word for word in a new edition it seems.

Would be cool to run them as different variations like Wilk's 457A, 457B if you want them all to be canon.

Shamrock 'Slinger wrote:Well, this must be one of the few times a weapon isn't completely copy pasted word for word in a new edition it seems.

Would be cool to run them as different variations like Wilk's 457A, 457B if you want them all to be canon.

"Hey, Harl! Check it out! it's an 03 Wilks 457! This has the 36 charge capacitors and the mag-rail sights!"

"Meh, I still like my '09 better, it was the first with the day-glo grips."

Shamrock 'Slinger wrote:Would be cool to run them as different variations like Wilk's 457A, 457B if you want them all to be canon.

That's a great answer too; a modern answer for a futuristic problem that began 25 years ago.

In the AR15 family, there are plenty of manufacturers who put their own spin on the base model to set themselves apart.

i would use the most recent stats. two reasons. first they are the ones that are the most coherent and cause the least difficulties in record keeping (the single shot and burst numbers actually matching up for example.)
second those older stats were written with the RMB burst rules in mind, and part of the reason it saw so many changes was to try and keep them inline with the changes to ranged combat as the game evolved. originally most weapons treated "long" eclips like an extended magazine IRL.. just a bigger size for a type of weapon. eventually the terminology shifted to short E-clips being pistol eclips and long E-clips being the larger rifle Eclips, though even then sometimes the older "extended magazine" take stuck around for some writers. likewise the ROF stuff.. started with 'standard' (RMB burst rules), then standard got changed to basically "semiauto" then they gave it back burst using the three round pulse under RUE.

like many issues with comparing new to old books, the core issue is that rifts is a palimpsest.. frequently edited and minorly rewritten, by multiple writers each with their own subtle variations in interpretation over the years.

glitterboy2098 wrote:i would use the most recent stats. two reasons. first they are the ones that are the most coherent and cause the least difficulties in record keeping (the single shot and burst numbers actually matching up for example.)
second those older stats were written with the RMB burst rules in mind, and part of the reason it saw so many changes was to try and keep them inline with the changes to ranged combat as the game evolved. originally most weapons treated "long" eclips like an extended magazine IRL.. just a bigger size for a type of weapon. eventually the terminology shifted to short E-clips being pistol eclips and long E-clips being the larger rifle Eclips, though even then sometimes the older "extended magazine" take stuck around for some writers. likewise the ROF stuff.. started with 'standard' (RMB burst rules), then standard got changed to basically "semiauto" then they gave it back burst using the three round pulse under RUE.

like many issues with comparing new to old books, the core issue is that rifts is a palimpsest.. frequently edited and minorly rewritten, by multiple writers each with their own subtle variations in interpretation over the years.

The problem here is that the two most recent stats doesn't use standard e-clip, so this in fact DOES cause some confusion.

dragonfett wrote:

glitterboy2098 wrote:i would use the most recent stats. two reasons. first they are the ones that are the most coherent and cause the least difficulties in record keeping (the single shot and burst numbers actually matching up for example.)
second those older stats were written with the RMB burst rules in mind, and part of the reason it saw so many changes was to try and keep them inline with the changes to ranged combat as the game evolved. originally most weapons treated "long" eclips like an extended magazine IRL.. just a bigger size for a type of weapon. eventually the terminology shifted to short E-clips being pistol eclips and long E-clips being the larger rifle Eclips, though even then sometimes the older "extended magazine" take stuck around for some writers. likewise the ROF stuff.. started with 'standard' (RMB burst rules), then standard got changed to basically "semiauto" then they gave it back burst using the three round pulse under RUE.

like many issues with comparing new to old books, the core issue is that rifts is a palimpsest.. frequently edited and minorly rewritten, by multiple writers each with their own subtle variations in interpretation over the years.

The problem here is that the two most recent stats doesn't use standard e-clip, so this in fact DOES cause some confusion.

yeah, the issue is the newer stats use a funky description of e-clips (or are a typo) so the oldest statblock is the one that makes the most sense.

I love the idea that there are different versions of this rifle or other weapons with differences or that they are trying to update weapons to new game rules but I'm afraid this is the reason:

glitterboy2098 wrote:like many issues with comparing new to old books, the core issue is that rifts is a palimpsest.. frequently edited and minorly rewritten, by multiple writers each with their own subtle variations in interpretation over the years.

While there aren't that many weapons or pieces of equipment that have variable stats but it is a real pain to deal with the ones that are.

Honestly shots per e-clip and weapons vary so much it can be a pain to keep track of. I would look to the GMG for a more updated version of the stats it came latter than both books and has it in it.

I found a constant treatment of MDC per e-clips easier to track, it also deals with with cases of using a partially drained e-clip from another weapon.

IE a short e-clip has power to deal Xd6 MD long e-clip has the power to deal Yd6 MD a CS E-canister has the power to deal Zd6 MD. Some weapons may have traits that affect drain of d6 md from the e-clip (example energy hog uses double d6 of the shot) Basically treating d6 MD as charges the clip has makes tracking shot available more universal and deals with those annoying times a clip from a weapon that gets 16 shots per e-clip and has taken several shots is then is loaded into a weapon that has 30 shots per e-clip.

yeah, but what do you do with different ranges or weapons with SDC/special effects like stun?

Orin J. wrote:yeah, but what do you do with different ranges or weapons with SDC/special effects like stun?

Range with energy weapons could be about how focused the energy, so I do not worry about it when it comes to e-clips.


SD is 1/100th MD so that is easy.(weapons like phase weapons that do either with the same blast I just go with the MD energy level per blast.)
Special affects is a rather rare and requires you make a ruling and stick to it. (out side of japan I can not think of any stun weapons that run on standard e-clips)


--I have rulings on allot of things and even lots of non standard weapons. I also standardize damage and range by type of weapon and type of energy, with e-clips providing X charges, this was need to allow players with the right skills like operators and TWs working on making new weapons and gear. That is right I allow players with the right skills to design prototype gear. (but a rewrite of all gear is not needed to pull off using a x-charge e-clip to track shots.)


Not saying the system is perfect but it makes more sense to me than having a pistol doing the same or less damage getting fewer shots per standard e-clip than a rifle.