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+% per level
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:49 pm
by Soldier of Od
Okay...
So, it is clear that level advancement bonuses for skills start at level 2, but is this the same for all things that have a % bonus per level listed? For instance, the spell Breath of life has a 70% +1% per level chance of success. If I am a 5th level warlock, do I have a 74% or 75% chance of success?
Re: +% per level
Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:59 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Soldier of Od wrote:Okay...
So, it is clear that level advancement bonuses for skills start at level 2, but is this the same for all things that have a % bonus per level listed? For instance, the spell Breath of life has a 70% +1% per level chance of success. If I am a 5th level warlock, do I have a 74% or 75% chance of success?
(without any bonus/penalty mods)
74%
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:01 pm
by Stone Gargoyle
The examples in the books always give the bonus at level 1, so I would say 75%. They say for each level, not each additional level.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:12 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Stone Gargoyle wrote:The examples in the books always give the bonus at level 1, so I would say 75%. They say for each level, not each additional level.
Please cite what pages said examples you are talking about.
However, I am pretty sure that this answer has been answered in an a Official Q&A in which the level up is " per additional level." (I don't off hand remember which one right now so I will be getting back with a citation later.)
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:46 pm
by Stone Gargoyle
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Stone Gargoyle wrote:The examples in the books always give the bonus at level 1, so I would say 75%. They say for each level, not each additional level.
Please cite what pages said examples you are talking about.
I don't recall. I know in the skills section it is listed as you said but I have seen examples of characters where the bonus was added in at first level. Probably one of those cases where a given writer used the rules as they saw them to do it though.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:57 pm
by Hotrod
It is not clear at all to me which is the case. My general rule of thumb for ambiguous questions like this: let it benefit player characters and work against non-player characters.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 6:45 pm
by Stone Gargoyle
My personal House Rule is to allow the bonus at first level. Most of the time it doesn't make much difference.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:03 pm
by Vincent Takeda
I also consider percentage per level to include level 1 since level 1 is a level. makes the math easier.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:08 pm
by Kraynic
Some skills/abilities specifically say X% at level Y, +Z% each level after (like the Priest Resurrection ability). If it doesn't say that, I can see applying the "per level" bonus at first level, though I'm not sure it is intended. In that case do whatever, as long as you are consistent, I guess.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:38 am
by drewkitty ~..~
Rifter 14 page 12
At what percentage do my skills start if my character is level one?
At the base skill percentage, plus any possible bonuses from I.Q. and occupation/education. This means if you take a skill which is 30%, +5 per level, at level one the skill will be at 30%. At level two it will be 35%, and so forth.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:47 am
by kiralon
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Rifter 14 page 12
At what percentage do my skills start if my character is level one?
At the base skill percentage, plus any possible bonuses from I.Q. and occupation/education. This means if you take a skill which is 30%, +5 per level, at level one the skill will be at 30%. At level two it will be 35%, and so forth.
That's the way i always played it.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:39 am
by Soldier of Od
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Rifter 14 page 12
At what percentage do my skills start if my character is level one?
At the base skill percentage, plus any possible bonuses from I.Q. and occupation/education. This means if you take a skill which is 30%, +5 per level, at level one the skill will be at 30%. At level two it will be 35%, and so forth.
Thank you for that. My question was does this extend to other things that have a percentage chance of success per level, such as spells?
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:38 pm
by drewkitty ~..~
Far as I know, anything that looks like a skill % is treated as a skill %.
But spells also only get +x per level in all other things till level two.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:54 pm
by Soldier of Od
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Far as I know, anything that looks like a skill % is treated as a skill %.
But spells also don't get they +x per level in all other things till level two.
By other things, are you referring to stuff like damage and duration? Because I was wondering that myself and was considering making it a follow up question. If that is defined in the books then that would make the % thing much clearer. But I haven't managed to find anything that does. So, with something like armor of Ithan, that says 100 S.D.C. +10 per level, is that 100 at level 1 or 110 at level 1? Same for a range of (e.g.) 120ft + 20ft per level - is it 120 at level 1 or 140 at level 1? Is this actually written down anywhere?
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:16 pm
by Veknironth
Well, regarding the original question, if there is a increase for anything per level, then that increase starts at level 2. There is no level 0 of which I know, so the base is there for everyone. Then you start to improve via training, or perhaps IQ, and finally experience.
-Vek
"But, PCs are going to whine for the extra %."
Re: +% per level
Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:54 pm
by ITWastrel
Rules as written, and as intended, seem to be X% at level 1, plus the per level starting at Lvl2. However, every game I have ever been in does it starting at Lvl1.
Same house rules for everything else, too. 2d6+1d6/lvl always equals 3d6 at Lvl1.
Normally you could make an argument about game balance and giving the PCs an advantage, but this is Palladium, so lol at that.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:40 am
by Soldier of Od
Okay, so the consensus seems to be that, although a lot of people house rule that the increase per level is added at level one, the rules are that it is not added until level two.
In that case... one of my players' characters just died!
Re: +% per level
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:50 am
by Stone Gargoyle
Soldier of Od wrote:Okay, so the consensus seems to be that, although a lot of people house rule that the increase per level is added at level one, the rules are that it is not added until level two.
In that case... one of my players' characters just died!
This is why you always have them thinking about what they want for their next character.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:55 am
by Soldier of Od
Stone Gargoyle wrote:Soldier of Od wrote:Okay, so the consensus seems to be that, although a lot of people house rule that the increase per level is added at level one, the rules are that it is not added until level two.
In that case... one of my players' characters just died!
This is why you always have them thinking about what they want for their next character.
It's good to have a back up plan!
Re: +% per level
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:56 pm
by kiralon
Soldier of Od wrote:Stone Gargoyle wrote:Soldier of Od wrote:Okay, so the consensus seems to be that, although a lot of people house rule that the increase per level is added at level one, the rules are that it is not added until level two.
In that case... one of my players' characters just died!
This is why you always have them thinking about what they want for their next character.
It's good to have a back up plan!
And a backup character
Re: +% per level
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:04 pm
by Prysus
Soldier of Od wrote:Okay...
So, it is clear that level advancement bonuses for skills start at level 2, but is this the same for all things that have a % bonus per level listed? For instance, the spell Breath of life has a 70% +1% per level chance of success. If I am a 5th level warlock, do I have a 74% or 75% chance of success?
Greetings and Salutations. Palladium is inconsistent in their application, but in the case of spells specifically, I'd go with "per level" includes level one (1), unless otherwise noted.
Palladium Fantasy Second Edition, Third Printing; Page 185, Magic Terms wrote:Level of experience or Level of the spell caster refers to the experience level of the person who is casting the magic.
So, without a statement (or at least examples) of this being contradicted, any spell including the phrase per "level of experience" would have to default to the caster's level. Now, the example they provide is a spell that states "five melee rounds per level of experience," and NOT something like five melee rounds plus five melee rounds per level of experience." So one could argue it's not intent, but it is what's written.
And yes, I know skills start at level 2, but there's evidence that might be the exception, or at least inconsistent. As some examples ...
Palladium Fantasy Second Edition, Third Printing; Page 107, Wizard O.C.C. wrote:10. P.P.E.: [snip] Permanent P.P.E. Base: [snip] Add 3D6 per each level of experience, starting at level one.
Diabolist and Summoner have similar lines, while the Warlock does not.
Palladium Fantasy Second Edition, Third Printing; Page 157, Psychic Sensitive P.C.C. wrote:4. I.S.P.: [snip] The character gets another 10 I.S.P. per each additional level of experience, starting at level one.
Psi-Healer, Psi-Mystic (for I.S.P., but NOT for P.P.E.), and Mind Mage have similar lines. I find these ones of particular interest as they state "additional" level, yet start at level one.
Now, the Priest of Light (on page 65) goes the other way and lists % "at level one" and then provides a bonus for each additional level. So with the Priest of Light, it looks like you'd have to follow the rules for standard skills. This is why I state it's inconsistent.
However, without clarification, I'd default to the page 185 of the main book specifically when spells are involved. Hope some of that helps. Farewell and safe journeys.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:43 am
by Soldier of Od
Grrrr... Palladium.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:34 pm
by Whiskeyjack
I've always done spells per level starting with level 1. I know I've read spells that had either the damage or protection explained, and it was as the base plus the level bonus at level one. Unfortunately, I can in no way find the spell that I had read.
There are also a few spells that specifically state +x per each additional level of experience. Making me think they are an exception to the rule.
Re: +% per level
Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:50 am
by Eric42
From Dead Reign core, p. 191, under the "Skill Bonuses" heading:
"For example: The Physical skill of Swim reads: Base Skill: 50% +5% per level of experience. This means that a first level character without an occupational bonus has a base skill proficiency of 50%. At second level +5% is added to increase the skill to 55%, at third level it increases to 60%, and so on."
Because of this line, I have always believed that it was always intended that bonus' don't start until "level two".