Problems with the Millennium Druid

[Hotrod]

I'm starting a new thread from the "Improving Africa and the Four Horsemen" discussion, where I've been writing up a few Millennium Trees that have no affinity or charity for Millennium Druids. I think the Millennium Druids itself is interesting separate topic.

I also added a blurb about the Ugandan Millennium Trees and how very few Millennium Druids visit them more than once. I personally despise the Millennium Druid O.C.C. and character concept. It's a sycophantic, preachy bum of an O.C.C. dedicated to pacifism, veganism, and soul-searching one-way conversations with a tree, all while surviving off the charity and protection of that tree. Meanwhile, everyone everywhere else has to deal with bandits, slavers, supernatural predators, wars, and a wildly unstable and unsafe world... and these bums presume to walk around telling other people that theirs is the right way to go? "Sure, person who uses magic sticks to make his garden grow under supernatural protection, please go on and tell me how I should be raising my crops better and greeting bandits with a handshake rather than a laser blast to the face." Puh-lease.

Wow. just Wow

I mean I have some OCCs I don't like, can someone please tell me what use a Burster actually serves you know if I already have a lighter, but wow I had no idea anyone felt that way about Millennium Druids or actual even thought about them.

Still very funny the entire time I was reading it I felt like I should be sitting at a bar with a beer in my hand listening to someone at the other end of the bar.

It's funny you should mention that particular mental image. My least favorite O.C.C. concept in Rifts is the Saloon Bum, because alcoholism should not be an O.C.C. That's a character concept I dislike, and it serves no thematic or worldbuilding purpose beyond allowing us to play out westerns in Rifts, a purpose for which it is redundant with every other O.C.C. in Rifts: New West.

But let's move on to the Millennium Druid. I'll start with a great quote:
I am a college professor. My job is to teach you all how to avoid the pitfalls of life that I avoided by becoming a college professor.

Long explanation follows. Tl;dr I dislike the Millennium Druid character concept, but I think it can work well as a world-building element or NPC when I portray them as failing to teach pacifism to the wider world.

Spoiler:

I dislike the Millennium Druid, but it serves to fit a thematic and world-building purpose within the world of Rifts. Millennium Trees and their communities are as close to a utopia as Rifts gets, and the angst I feel about the class is as much a commentary on the dirty, dangerous, and dark world of Rifts as it is on my world view.

But Hotrod, you disheveled, yet occasionally insightful fan, is that not the point of Millennium Trees in the first place? After all, without some light to contrast darkness, how can we truly appreciate either? Why shouldn't we have noble, bright, peaceful characters spreading their optimism and objective goodness outward from the utopias of the Millennium trees into the grim, dark world?

Well, self-serving rhetorical paragraph, of course introducing that contrast of noble/bright with grim/dark is the point of having these isolated utopias on Rifts, but the key word here is contrast. You go to Shangri-La to see a Utopia, but you don't get to take Shangri-La away with you. If you try to export a point of light into a dark place, either the light has to go out, or the dark place can't stay dark. If you want to export your utopia's ideals into a world that will certainly stay grim and dark, you're going to have problems.

After all, what kind of mindset do you find in a young man who has grown up in sheltered environments, a young man who has been handed everything he will ever need to stay safe, survive, and prosper? You get the classic college freshman: a pretentious, entitled idealist who thinks he has the answers to everything despite the fact that his existence, prosperity, and safety are gifts he never earned. Now put him into a nasty environment and tell him to preach pacifism and teach farmers how to farm better, even though he's only ever having grown stuff in greenhouses. How well do you see that going?

This is the essence of how I see the Millennium Druid. He's the dude with all the answers who's sublimely unaware of how his answers are predicated on the unearned charity of a magic tree, a magic tree that can't possibly provide that same charity to everyone. He knows nothing of struggle, discipline, survival, or hard work, yet he presumes to be a teacher.

The logical outcome of this is to have these errant Millennium Druids fail and die. They don't, because they have magic sticks and leaves. So they get to keep on preaching to the world about how there's a better way without having the faintest clue as to how to genuinely help that world get there. Then they go back to their favorite trees, whine about how the world continues to be a bad place at great length, the trees give the druids more magic sticks, and the vicious cycle continues.

Thus, I dislike the Millennium Druid as a character concept, but I don't dislike the existence of the Millennium Druid O.C.C. the same way I dislike the existence of the Saloon Bum. Were I to write a revised background on Millennium Druids, the focus of what I would write would be this disconnect they have as they try to bring the utopia they know to the darkness of the world away from their trees. They're well-intentioned sycophants and moochers who try to make the world a better place, fail for reasons they don't understand, and keep trying. They're tragic figures who don't understand that they've hit a dead end of human progress, and that the rest of the world needs to figure out how to improve itself without the charity of a big magic tree.

(Side note: Bursters make great firemen in every sense of the word (can put out fires instantly is quite useful). Give them a flamethrower with M.D.C. napalm and they're incredible in close combat and confined spaces)

[Warshield73]

I was waiting to post something here until after I could re-read the section on the Millennium Druid but then I felt the need to go back a re-read the section on the trees themselves and the communities around them.

First, I think your characterization of the Millennium Tree communities are way off. These are not little bubble utopias floating around Rifts Earth but targets for evil that stand out like a lake in a desert. They are frequently attacked so that evil sorcerers and minions of the Splugorth can use parts of the tree in their magic. Yes the trees do help in that defense but the threat is there just like any other community on Rifts Earth. A great example of this is "The Tree of Sarrows" in WB4 pg. 134. This is a tree that found itself surrounded by and now enslaved to the forces of evil.

Similarly the Millennium Druids are not pacifists. It says specifically that they will fight and even kill. "They do not always fight to the death. The way I have always seen this is a lot like a Cyber-Knight. They might let a thug run away but they don't sit down with brodkil to teach them the finer points of diplomacy.

To me the real problem of the MD is the power set. All they have is equipment from a tree that ties them to one region of the world. When a player in one of my games asked to play one of these I let him have almost double the number of objects from the tree and even when he failed on the roll for random psi I went ahead and allowed minor psi.

If I was going to revise this OCC I would give them either more skills, lore and history mainly but any knowledge type skill, or some magic ability that is linked to the tree. Think a Warlock but with powers connected to the tree.

This is not my favorite OCC, truthfully I was surprised anyone wanted to play it and even more surprised that someone hated it this much.

[Hotrod]

I was waiting to post something here until after I could re-read the section on the Millennium Druid but then I felt the need to go back a re-read the section on the trees themselves and the communities around them.

First, I think your characterization of the Millennium Tree communities are way off. These are not little bubble utopias floating around Rifts Earth but targets for evil that stand out like a lake in a desert. They are frequently attacked so that evil sorcerers and minions of the Splugorth can use parts of the tree in their magic. Yes the trees do help in that defense but the threat is there just like any other community on Rifts Earth. A great example of this is "The Tree of Sarrows" in WB4 pg. 134. This is a tree that found itself surrounded by and now enslaved to the forces of evil.

The Tree of Sorrows is a unique Millennium Tree: it is one of two such trees with little to no defense against supernatural Evil (the other being the corrupted tree in the Black Forest). Those two trees are the primary sources of corrupted Millennium Tree wands/staves, with the other source being buying/stealing gifts from their recipients. A more typical example would be something like the Tree of Ages on p125 of WB3, which is a refuge from the Fomorian demons infesting the Orkney Islands and is a mix of humans and debees who live and work together in peace.

Similarly the Millennium Druids are not pacifists. It says specifically that they will fight and even kill. "They do not always fight to the death. The way I have always seen this is a lot like a Cyber-Knight. They might let a thug run away but they don't sit down with brodkil to teach them the finer points of diplomacy.

I suppose that depends on your definition of pacifism. Some pacifists reject violence under any circumstances; others support violence in an emergency to defend one's self or others. I would put Millennium Druids in the latter category. Millennium Druids will fight only to defend themselves and others (an approach not incompatible with the philosophy of pacifism). WB3 describes them as "peace loving," "teaching... the philosophy of peace, love, kindness, unity, joyous life, and liberty," "peace loving and always try to use reason, kindness, and compromise to resolve disputes," "they allow many enemies to live," and "these druids travel all over the world to spread the word of peace." Thus, I consider them to be ardent advocates of pacifism, even though they are not absolutist in being against violence.

To me the real problem of the MD is the power set. All they have is equipment from a tree that ties them to one region of the world. When a player in one of my games asked to play one of these I let him have almost double the number of objects from the tree and even when he failed on the roll for random psi I went ahead and allowed minor psi.

If I was going to revise this OCC I would give them either more skills, lore and history mainly but any knowledge type skill, or some magic ability that is linked to the tree. Think a Warlock but with powers connected to the tree.

I agree with this critique of the class from a power perspective. I'd be curious to know what you think of the Gulu Monk O.C.C. I put together in the Rifts: Africa supplement thread, where I tried to implement something more akin to a symbiotic relationship with the tree that grows with experience.

This is not my favorite OCC, truthfully I was surprised anyone wanted to play it and even more surprised that someone hated it this much.

Hate is perhaps too strong a word. I like it as a world-building concept and as an N.P.C.; I strongly dislike it as a concept for a player character (and I think it has some issues as an N.P.C. that could be interesting to explore in a game).

[Warshield73]

Just a few quick points:

First we know from the basic description of the trees that a percentage of beings in and around the tree are classified as protectors, WB3 Pg. 13, and this is part of the tree's defense.

Second we know from the description of the Splugorth of London that minions raid several trees for slaves and parts of the tree so we can assume that like any other community the relative safety is as dependent on geography, how close you are to the bad guy, as it is on the MT itself. The people inside the tree are described as living peacefully together not necessarily in peace with those around them.

Third the description of the MD is not pacifistic, they are willing to fight. Pacifists in battle situations are more "let me help the wounded" and less "I'm shooting this guy in the face and maybe, if he seems harmless enough, I will let him run away. The same thing you are saying here could apply to the code of a Cyber-knight or even a Cosmo-Knight under certain circumstances. Heck, it could even apply to someone of Scrupulous alignment "6. Never kill for pleasure, will always attempt to bring the villain to justice alive, no matter how vile."

Truthfully this has been interesting to me because I have been working on a Scorched Lands (DB 2, Pg. 16), I'm trying to come up with basic stats for dimensions listed but never described, and my next project with be the Plain of Mists which is described as having an unspecified number of Millennium Trees so I'll have to read up on them in a few months anyway.

[Seneca]

I more or less do away with the Millenium Druid and simply use the Psi-druid O.C.C.'s powers with the magic items from the class in Rifts England more or less as flavor. As neither class is presented as a combat oriented class, both are "peaceful-peace loving," I feel they fulfill the same role. This adds some omph to a lame O.C.C.

I also did away with the other druid classes in England and simply use the Palladium Fantasy Druid O.C.C. with Herbalism for the Dryad. The Scathach is just a lesser Mystic Kuznya already, no ability to turn themselves into metal for instance, so I just mix and match the powers and rules for making magic items with them.

Then again all the early Palladium books could use a revision to modernize them within the system. After all my copy of Rifts England is a third printing from 95! I liberally use Palladium Fantasy's O.C.C.'s for Knights, Longbow men, etc, whenever I ran an England/Europe game. Just swap out some O.C.C. skills and starting equipment and they work great.

[Curbludgeon]

I don't find the notion of Millennium Druids being obliviously entitled to be particularly useful, nor the blithe dismissal of a utopian ethos simply due to the setting being generally inimical to such. Other than the energy derived from a ley line nexus it's not made explicit what may cause an individual tree to flourish, and insofar as the trees both produce housing and have a clear preference for certain alignments the fostering of community is perhaps an intrinsic factor in their health. I know there are mentions of isolated trees, maybe in Scandinavia, which could put that in dispute, but haven't yet dug up references. Regardless, I think there's a decent role for a character that leverages their magical privilege in accordance with a personal ethics which while often complimentary to the codes held by knightly characters is clearly distinct.

As a simple fix I'd give Millennium Druids additional skills, including some RUE-era ones not in use when the class was published, so as to make them excellent conventional crop farmers and persuasive speakers while not stepping on the toes of Herbalists/Psi-Druids/Woodland Druids/Plant Shamans.

Additional O.C.C. Skills:
Language: one additional of choice (+10%)
Botany (+10%)
Brewing: Medicinal (+15%)
Carpentry (+10%)
Dowsing (+10%)
Gardening (+20%, professional quality)
Horsemanship: General (+10%)
Philosophy (+10%)
Public Speaking (+10%)
Whittling & Sculpting (+10%)


As a more comprehensive fix I'd love to put together a model that can reflect a variety of characters whom might or might not personally have extraordinary abilities but are often in close association with regional beings that do. I like much of what Hotrod did with the Gula Monks of Uganda. In an earlier thread I made a couple of posts on interesting real-world plants which might take to a Rifts treatment, complete with characters making use of or befriending them. Since there are a few other monk O.C.C.s which can glean increased effect from natural magic items(Sohei and Bishamon from Japan, Wormwood Monks) that might be a fun niche to differentiate a hypothetical Modular Monk from, say, a Modular Mystic who would be more likely to create new items within a cultural paradigm.

[Hotrod]

I don't find the notion of Millennium Druids being obliviously entitled to be particularly useful, nor the blithe dismissal of a utopian ethos simply due to the setting being generally inimical to such.

I don't find Millennium Druids to be particularly useful, but I suspect I didn't articulate my reasons very well. I don't dismiss their utopian ethos per se; I dismiss their proselytizing pacifism and presuming to teach others.

Let's try inverting this and say that we had a Glitter Boy Pilot who wandered around teaching a bunch of squishy S.D.C. folks with no M.D.C. weapons that they should rise up and fight against the local bandits who control their region. Sure, the GB pilot can fight bandits because he pilots a walking tank, but it's unreasonable for him to presume that others should deal with tyranny the same way he does when they don't have comparable capabilities.

Rifts: England presents Millennium Druids walking around with rune weapon-caliber items telling other people who don't have such items how they should live, despite lacking the actual knowledge needed to teach what they teach. Millennium druids teach others how to farm, even though they lack basic farming skills like gardening, botany, and animal husbandry. They teach people about how to handle monsters even though they don't have skills like demon/monster lore or any intrinsic fighting abilities beyond W.P. blunt and hand-to-hand: basic (which they probably wouldn't teach anyway, because pacifism). The only thing they teach that they're actually qualified to teach is faerie lore, a fairly common skill that pretty much anyone can take (and other classes in Rifts: England get, too).

The Filidh class is actually better-suited to teach people about defending themselves and the lore of demons, monsters, and faeries than Millennium Druids, and unlike the Millennium Druid, the Filidh can actually give people some magic herbs that are useful in defending themselves against the supernatural. The Dryad is likewise far better-suited to assist and advise farmers, both with practical skill-based advice and by providing useful magic herbs. The Scathach can provide those mystic herbs and a lot of very useful tools and weapons for farmers. An Herbalist is a freaking powerhouse for agriculture. Were I a farmer in England, I'd be a lot more excited about any of those coming to visit, teach, and trade.

Regardless, I think there's a decent role for a character that leverages their magical privilege in accordance with a personal ethics which while often complimentary to the codes held by knightly characters is clearly distinct.

That is something I could absolutely get behind: a wandering Millennium Druid who seeks to help people and set an example of a virtuous pursuit of peace without preaching it outright. A character who sees him or herself as conduit for sharing the tree's gifts with others. A monk-type character whose wealth is in the ability to spread actual peace and prosperity through deeds more than through preaching. Palladium Fantasy 1st Edition had a bit about the Healer class, where they got something of a free pass from most harassment from almost all factions. That could be a neat aspect to the class.

As a simple fix I'd give Millennium Druids additional skills, including some RUE-era ones not in use when the class was published, so as to make them excellent conventional crop farmers and persuasive speakers while not stepping on the toes of Herbalists/Psi-Druids/Woodland Druids/Plant Shamans.

Additional O.C.C. Skills:
Language: one additional of choice (+10%)
Botany (+10%)
Brewing: Medicinal (+15%)
Carpentry (+10%)
Dowsing (+10%)
Gardening (+20%, professional quality)
Horsemanship: General (+10%)
Philosophy (+10%)
Public Speaking (+10%)
Whittling & Sculpting (+10%)

This would at least qualify them to do what the class description says they do. Even with those additions, I think the class concept and description could be far better both for world building and for providing players with an interesting class to take.

As a more comprehensive fix I'd love to put together a model that can reflect a variety of characters whom might or might not personally have extraordinary abilities but are often in close association with regional beings that do. I like much of what Hotrod did with the Gula Monks of Uganda. In an earlier thread I made a couple of posts on interesting real-world plants which might take to a Rifts treatment, complete with characters making use of or befriending them. Since there are a few other monk O.C.C.s which can glean increased effect from natural magic items(Sohei and Bishamon from Japan, Wormwood Monks) that might be a fun niche to differentiate a hypothetical Modular Monk from, say, a Modular Mystic who would be more likely to create new items within a cultural paradigm.

That would be a much more interesting take on the class. It always seems kind of lame when a character who doesn't belong to a given class can just get a piece of equipment and effectively gain the benefits of that class. Anyone can acquire Millennium Tree items, and many people do. How might we better set Millennium Druids apart? Symbiosis is a neat concept; what else could we do?

[Curbludgeon]

Trying to compile a list of all the different megaversal monk style classes with their skills and abilities is proving a tad vexing, and somewhere in the middle of comparing Mystic China+Conversion Book with WB25:China 2 my eyes crossed. There's something eventually fruitful there, but maybe considering Druids as their own thing first might help me to get my thoughts in order.

Seneca's solution above works well, in that Druids have always been given a weird subpar treatment in Palladium. In addition to merging Dryads with Fantasy's Druids and Scathachs with aspects of Mystic Kuznya, I could see Filidhs getting the animal abilities from Were-Shamans. I like the idea of Psi-Millennium Druids as an easy fix, but still wouldn't mind quantifying what a druid's relationship with Millennium Trees could represent.

I think I find the class as most like a Minor Hero from Heroes Unlimited that hadn't yet gained the additional skills from being converted to Rifts. Being superpals with a Millennium Tree strikes me as akin to a plant-version of the minor superpower Animal Brother. This suggests there could be a major superpower version where, even without magical or psychic abilities, other varieties of plant entities just think this character is hot stuff. It's partially because I want to write up new supernatural plants around which communities form, but I'm warming to the idea of Millennium Druids, for whatever reason, being able to charm the pants off of plants. They're the sort of character that gets a skill bonus when learning from a Biomantic Memory Tree. They can convince a Nurilian to go jogging, a Forest Warden to relocate a birthing grove, a Ganka to skip a meal, a Kisent to cut a deal on Kisentite weapons, and an Onion Head to share from their garden, all while turning down marriage proposals from Chasseur Vert and Cactus People.

Using CB1r's guidelines adds about 10 skills to most characters coming from other settings, which gets a Millennium Druid up to the level of other S&A OCCs. The suggestions I made above don't quite jive with the conversion book, but it's not like Gardening is a gamebreaker. While I still don't think the WB3 description of the OCC is quite as hypocritically unexamined as some might, I can see value in Millennium Druids having some muddied motivations.