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In the Master's Saga Sourcebook (manga edition) I was wondering about a couple of things.

First, are the attribute requirements a little too high, especially for ATAC and TC? For example, if you go by the write up of Louie Nichols in the Shadow Chronicles book, his PS is the base requirement for the ATAC. However that OCC also gives a bonus of at least 1 point of strength which means he didn't meet the requirements for the ATAC. So either he lost a point of strength due to age or OCC requirements only need to be met after the OCC bonuses are applied?

Second, the pilot ground veritech skill in in the book says its exclusive to the ATAC, TC and REP. Since they mentioned the REP specifically does that mean the other sub-armies of the TC can't take the skill or by mentioning the REP do they mean the scout MOS? If the former, then if another army like the GMP takes the scout MOS as a supplement does that mean they have they drop the pilot ground veritech skill?

Not sure if any of these questions are addressed in the Full Size copy of the Master's Saga and I know a GM could wave his hands, but I was just wondering from a RAW perspective.

Thanks.

FelixGungrave wrote:In the Master's Saga Sourcebook (manga edition) I was wondering about a couple of things.

First, are the attribute requirements a little too high, especially for ATAC and TC? For example, if you go by the write up of Louie Nichols in the Shadow Chronicles book, his PS is the base requirement for the ATAC. However that OCC also gives a bonus of at least 1 point of strength which means he didn't meet the requirements for the ATAC. So either he lost a point of strength due to age or OCC requirements only need to be met after the OCC bonuses are applied?

That's probably up to the GM, but I would rule that players either have the option of picking an appropriate O.C.C. they meet the minimum stats for, or if they don't meet the minimums they can get said minimums in lieu of getting any O.C.C.bonuses. At age 35, Louie was too young to have age-related reductions (IIRC, those don't start kicking in until 40-50).

FelixGungrave wrote:Second, the pilot ground veritech skill in in the book says its exclusive to the ATAC, TC and REP. Since they mentioned the REP specifically does that mean the other sub-armies of the TC can't take the skill or by mentioning the REP do they mean the scout MOS? If the former, then if another army like the GMP takes the scout MOS as a supplement does that mean they have they drop the pilot ground veritech skill?

Not sure if any of these questions are addressed in the Full Size copy of the Master's Saga and I know a GM could wave his hands, but I was just wondering from a RAW perspective.

Thanks.

For the first part, it means the Recon Patrol specifically. Note that the TC:RP troops either pick Pilot Battloids or Pilot Ground Veritechs, but are limited to only piloting the Cyclops or Myrmidon; no other Battloids are available, nor is the standard Spartas Hovertank available. As for picking the Scout/Recon MOS as a supplementary MOS, TC:RP troops may have that option but the skills are going to duplicate most of their existing MOS with little to no change in bonuses (including Pilot Ground Veritechs with the Myrmidon limitation), so it's not likely to be chosen (& hence why it says they tend to pick SERE Specialist, Comm. Specialist, Battloid Pilot, or Field Medic).

As for another O.C.C. like GMP...aside from their primary reason for selecting it being the ability to blend into a TC recon unit (either straight TC, TC:RP, or one of the other Special Forces units), they have the same limitation of having to meet the attribute requirements & give up their Related Skills. But yes, they can do so...& as noted in the Scout/Recon MOS description, their only Ground Veritech selection will be the Myrmidon (no Spartas training available, & the ASC didn't use Cyclones or Silverbacks).

FelixGungrave wrote:First, are the attribute requirements a little too high, especially for ATAC and TC? For example, if you go by the write up of Louie Nichols in the Shadow Chronicles book, his PS is the base requirement for the ATAC. However that OCC also gives a bonus of at least 1 point of strength which means he didn't meet the requirements for the ATAC. So either he lost a point of strength due to age or OCC requirements only need to be met after the OCC bonuses are applied?

Louie is a non-player character taken directly from the animation... the rules that would apply to a player character don't necessarily apply to him. (Come to that, the rules might not even apply to the ATAC 15th Squad as a whole since it was a rowdy and undisciplined unit used as a sort of dumping ground for problem children even in the original Japanese story.)

Mind you, Louie's stats in the RTSC Core Book also reflect a Louie who is some 13 years older than he was when he served in the ATAC 15th Squad and had long since retired from his brief service as a frontline soldier to become one of those generic sci-fi omni-disciplinary military scientists. Odds are he hasn't been doing PT with the same regularity or intensity as a young man serving in a frontline combat unit would.

FelixGungrave wrote:First, are the attribute requirements a little too high, especially for ATAC and TC? For example, if you go by the write up of Louie Nichols in the Shadow Chronicles book, his PS is the base requirement for the ATAC. However that OCC also gives a bonus of at least 1 point of strength which means he didn't meet the requirements for the ATAC. So either he lost a point of strength due to age or OCC requirements only need to be met after the OCC bonuses are applied?

There are several explanations for Louie:
-Editing mistake (TSC was written before Masters SB and it slipped by)
-Louie suffered injuries at some point that lowered his PS (resulting in a shift in occupation, injuries causing attribute temp/perm damage IINM is not in TSC main book but can be found in several other Palladium lines ex PF2E pg11 or old RMB pg10-1, I did not see it in RUE) or had an extended bout in a reduced gravity environment that lowered his PS
-Louie lost PS point due to age (mechanically this works, but the time factor is not being met looking at PF2E pg34)
-NPCs do not always follow the rules or add up mechanically

When attribute requirements kick in can be a GM call, though there is some precedent set by certain classes in Rifts (specifically the Juicer and Crazy OCCs) that indicate that some of the minimum attribute requirements are after class bonuses (and likely automatic skills), though if not met in those specific cases in Rifts result in an auto bump to the minimum.

FelixGungrave wrote:Second, the pilot ground veritech skill in in the book says its exclusive to the ATAC, TC and REP. Since they mentioned the REP specifically does that mean the other sub-armies of the TC can't take the skill or by mentioning the REP do they mean the scout MOS? If the former, then if another army like the GMP takes the scout MOS as a supplement does that mean they have they drop the pilot ground veritech skill?

REP = Recon Escort Patrol, one of the sub-armies.

However I could see it being more wide spread IF one introduces additional ground veritechs (existing or homebrew) to specific sub-army branches to the ASC inventory (either as "regular" use or for "evaluation" purposes) that complement their needs. While mass use of Cyclones and Silverbacks are out, that doesn't mean there could not be a small selection being used for "evaluation" purposes. I would think the Cyclones (and a Silverback precursor) would be attractive to the REP, Desert Squad, Civil Defense, and GMP, with the others being less interested or needing an all new design or heavily customized option of existing design to meet their needs (if at all).

FelixGungrave wrote:First, are the attribute requirements a little too high, especially for ATAC and TC? For example, if you go by the write up of Louie Nichols in the Shadow Chronicles book, his PS is the base requirement for the ATAC. However that OCC also gives a bonus of at least 1 point of strength which means he didn't meet the requirements for the ATAC. So either he lost a point of strength due to age or OCC requirements only need to be met after the OCC bonuses are applied?

I doubt it's anything but a mistake.

FelixGungrave wrote:Second, the pilot ground veritech skill in in the book says its exclusive to the ATAC, TC and REP. Since they mentioned the REP specifically does that mean the other sub-armies of the TC can't take the skill or by mentioning the REP do they mean the scout MOS? If the former, then if another army like the GMP takes the scout MOS as a supplement does that mean they have they drop the pilot ground veritech skill?

Not sure if any of these questions are addressed in the Full Size copy of the Master's Saga....

The writing in question is the same in the later edition.

A lot of things make sense here.

Personally, I thought maybe it was an editing mistake, though I was a bit surprised that for others it was between the different books rather than between the OCCs. For me, the mistake was between the attribute requirements and bonuses of the ATAC and TC (I was thinking they should be switched). Otherwise, as they are written it bothered me that to qualify to pilot a mech you had to be able to lift said mech and to apply for a job peeling potatoes for your fellow soldiers you had to pass an IQ test. But, maybe that was the intent as they wanted the strongest for the ATAC because for whatever reason you'd be leaving your mech and fighting on foot a lot and the TC wanted quick thinking individuals because of the flexibility and variety of jobs that branch offered. And it makes sense that if the rules as written are broken then you'd be regulated to the problem squad.

So thanks everyone for getting me think differently.

FelixGungrave wrote:A lot of things make sense here.

Personally, I thought maybe it was an editing mistake, though I was a bit surprised that for others it was between the different books rather than between the OCCs. For me, the mistake was between the attribute requirements and bonuses of the ATAC and TC (I was thinking they should be switched).

O.K., that actually makes a lot of sense. The fact that there's a PP recommendation for the TC but not the ATAC backs this up. Also note that the "Physically Strong" stat set recommends the TC but not the ATAC.