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I know "balance" isn't really a Palladium concept, but I'm still curious. What do folks think are the most over/under-powered super abilities in HU2? I'll go first:

Under-Powered:
Animal Abilities-The bonuses you get seem right in the tier of minor super-powers. I figure it's only a major power because it's supposed to be character-concept defining, the way most major powers are.

Over-Powered:
Multiple-Selves-I feel like this maybe doesn't get enough attention, but I think Multiple Selves might be the most OP offering in all of HU2.

If you get the version that gives one duplicate/level, then, in many respects it effectively lets you use your level as a multiplier on most aspects of your character: SDC, damage output/round, area of effect or number of targets for super abilities, weight lifted, APM and, most critically, the number of independent actions you can take.

True, the version of the power that gives you one duplicate/level makes each duplicate one level lower than your main character, but Palladium characters are so front loaded (in terms of SDC/Hit Points, APM, combat bonuses, skills, skills percentages and even super powers [most of which aren't level dependent]) that this isn't a huge liability, and it becomes even less relevant as your character gets higher in level. A 2nd character is a bit more powerful than they were at 1st level. But a 12th level character is only marginally more powerful than they were at 11th.

I suppose it wouldn't be so bad if Multiple Selves were your only power. But the street-level power-grade of HU2 Heroes means that even un-powered characters can be a threat to super-powered types, with the right skills and equipment. A mid-level heroe with Multiple Selves and the military specialist education level is a one-person special-ops unit. Or if they've got PhD level education, they could function as a one-person medical response team, detective agency and engineering unit, if needed.

And, any HU2 character will have other powers in addition to Multiple Selves: 1-3 minor powers, or 1-2 majors powers, or minor psionics or a super-psi power; to say nothing of combining it with mega-powers. Even Multiple Selves plus something as simple as Energy Expulsion is a dangerous combo. But if you've got Multiple Selves and some form of APS, you're a walking platoon.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen more players try to abuse this in play.

EliBenedict wrote:Animal Abilities-The bonuses you get seem right in the tier of minor super-powers. I figure it's only a major power because it's supposed to be character-concept defining, the way most major powers are.

The major ‘reptile’ power got me raising an eyebrow: you get to move faster, but not as fast as the minor power of Wingless Flight; and you can leap far, but not as far as you can ‘leap’ with Wingless Flight; and you can climb with little chance of falling, and balance on a tightrope with little chance of falling, which isn’t as good as having zero chance of falling with Wingless Flight; and you get zero extra actions per round, instead of getting extra with Wingless Flight; and you get bonuses to strike and dodge and parry and SDC, all of which Wingless Flight equals or betters (while letting you hit harder).

The tradeoff is, you get to communicate with reptiles — and if it were two-way speech with full understanding, okay, that’s apples and oranges; maybe you’d still pick the minor power, but maybe you’d pick the major one that lets you proactively use the little critters as spies or reactively use them as crime-scene witnesses or whatever — but once you grant that, no, you can’t actually talk with them, then how does it stack up against the other perks of being able to, y’know, actually fly?

Transmutation is very very powerful. So much so that I banned it

I've only banned one power combo ever. Karmic Power and Invulnerability. No bonuses against him and depending upon the circumstance bonuses to save
vs magic and psionics.

Hmm Under Rated Power...Animal Metamorphsis

Over Rated Power...Natural Combat Ability and Slow-Motion Control. That latter especially is useless if your opponent has no combat bonuses (reduce combat bonus by one half). Which means if your 1st level you aim a gun and you still have a minimum +1 to strike.

As far as I can tell, Adapt To Environment’s #1 ability (breathing in atmospheres where the air is bad, after slipping into a coma for a while first) isn’t as good as Space Native’s ability to just go without air; and its #2 ability (inhaling smoke or poison gas or sleeping gas and suffering penalties before falling unconscious) isn’t as good as Space Native’s ability to just go without air; and its #3 ability is, what, one hour per level of being as immune to radiation as a Space Native always is? Or one hour per level of taking small damage and penalties from sub-zero temperatures, instead of a Space Native always being impervious to cold? Or one hour per level of swimming underwater without air, even a mile down, instead of a Space Native always being able to handle unlimited depths? Or five minutes per level of surviving in a vacuum, instead of a Space Native surviving that for days or weeks or months?

But one is a major power and the other is a minor.

Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. Every computer, lap top and cell phone is a slave to your will, allowing your mind unprecedented access to any and all forms of information on the planet. Phone numbers. Passwords. Account numbers. Deactivation codes. Launch codes. Video streams. ANYTHING electronic and able to access the internet has just become your tool/weapon to use or activate as you see fit. All with the ease of simply grabbing your phone and making a call.
Then there's always the control you have over other machines in the world. Remember the scene from Fast and Furious 7 I think it was, when the BBEG sicced a city of smart cars on the heroes? Child's play for Mechano-Link. Think bigger. How about remote access to a Russian nuclear submarine via a controlled communication satellite and launching its payload at any random target just for grins. Frightened yet? We can get America's Arsenal into the air right afterward to add a few a?tra sparks to the fireworks show if you like. And then once all missiles are orbital, let's blow them with the self destruct codes just to go e the kids something to gawk at while we save the world from the nuclear holocaust we started. Yeah. Mechano-Link can be just a bit over the top.

JuliusCreed wrote:Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. Every computer, lap top and cell phone is a slave to your will, allowing your mind unprecedented access to any and all forms of information on the planet. Phone numbers. Passwords. Account numbers. Deactivation codes. Launch codes. Video streams. ANYTHING electronic and able to access the internet has just become your tool/weapon to use or activate as you see fit. All with the ease of simply grabbing your phone and making a call.
Then there's always the control you have over other machines in the world. Remember the scene from Fast and Furious 7 I think it was, when the BBEG sicced a city of smart cars on the heroes? Child's play for Mechano-Link. Think bigger. How about remote access to a Russian nuclear submarine via a controlled communication satellite and launching its payload at any random target just for grins. Frightened yet? We can get America's Arsenal into the air right afterward to add a few a?tra sparks to the fireworks show if you like. And then once all missiles are orbital, let's blow them with the self destruct codes just to go e the kids something to gawk at while we save the world from the nuclear holocaust we started. Yeah. Mechano-Link can be just a bit over the top.

I think you missed the last sentence in the power.

"This power does NOT include the ability to command machines". caps included.

It gives you read-only access. you can read all the data and programming, but you cannot alter or control any of it. all the power really does is provide the listed bonuses to technical and piloting skills and give a base "operate any/alien machines" skill %.

It's handy, but it's hardly overpowered.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

JuliusCreed wrote:Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. Every computer, lap top and cell phone is a slave to your will, allowing your mind unprecedented access to any and all forms of information on the planet. Phone numbers. Passwords. Account numbers. Deactivation codes. Launch codes. Video streams. ANYTHING electronic and able to access the internet has just become your tool/weapon to use or activate as you see fit. All with the ease of simply grabbing your phone and making a call.
Then there's always the control you have over other machines in the world. Remember the scene from Fast and Furious 7 I think it was, when the BBEG sicced a city of smart cars on the heroes? Child's play for Mechano-Link. Think bigger. How about remote access to a Russian nuclear submarine via a controlled communication satellite and launching its payload at any random target just for grins. Frightened yet? We can get America's Arsenal into the air right afterward to add a few a?tra sparks to the fireworks show if you like. And then once all missiles are orbital, let's blow them with the self destruct codes just to go e the kids something to gawk at while we save the world from the nuclear holocaust we started. Yeah. Mechano-Link can be just a bit over the top.

I think you missed the last sentence in the power.

"This power does NOT include the ability to command machines". caps included.

It gives you read-only access. you can read all the data and programming, but you cannot alter or control any of it. all the power really does is provide the listed bonuses to technical and piloting skills and give a base "operate any/alien machines" skill %.

It's handy, but it's hardly overpowered.

Read the Cyberjacking section and rules in the Galaxy Guide and tell us again that Mechano Link doesn't allow you to reprogram systems. 'Machines' is not the same as 'computers' and if the machines ARE slaved to a computer control system (like an automated factory of some sort), then by hacking the controls with Mechano Link, you actually would have control over those specific machines as well.

fbdaury wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

JuliusCreed wrote:Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. Every computer, lap top and cell phone is a slave to your will, allowing your mind unprecedented access to any and all forms of information on the planet. Phone numbers. Passwords. Account numbers. Deactivation codes. Launch codes. Video streams. ANYTHING electronic and able to access the internet has just become your tool/weapon to use or activate as you see fit. All with the ease of simply grabbing your phone and making a call.
Then there's always the control you have over other machines in the world. Remember the scene from Fast and Furious 7 I think it was, when the BBEG sicced a city of smart cars on the heroes? Child's play for Mechano-Link. Think bigger. How about remote access to a Russian nuclear submarine via a controlled communication satellite and launching its payload at any random target just for grins. Frightened yet? We can get America's Arsenal into the air right afterward to add a few a?tra sparks to the fireworks show if you like. And then once all missiles are orbital, let's blow them with the self destruct codes just to go e the kids something to gawk at while we save the world from the nuclear holocaust we started. Yeah. Mechano-Link can be just a bit over the top.

I think you missed the last sentence in the power.

"This power does NOT include the ability to command machines". caps included.

It gives you read-only access. you can read all the data and programming, but you cannot alter or control any of it. all the power really does is provide the listed bonuses to technical and piloting skills and give a base "operate any/alien machines" skill %.

It's handy, but it's hardly overpowered.

Read the Cyberjacking section and rules in the Galaxy Guide and tell us again that Mechano Link doesn't allow you to reprogram systems. 'Machines' is not the same as 'computers' and if the machines ARE slaved to a computer control system (like an automated factory of some sort), then by hacking the controls with Mechano Link, you actually would have control over those specific machines as well.

Not all machines are computers, but all computers are machines. Ergo, they cannot be controled via Mechano-Link.

Mechano-Link lets you do the Cyberjacking/Machine Ghost thing, but it's still dependant on your hacking skill and ability to actually fight your way past data. it's only an auto-win against improperly secured systems. but sinse nothing of importance is likely to be on an improperly secured system, this isn't really as good as it sounds. Especially as you still have to actually take the hacking skill if you want to do anything but read data.

There's no contradiction. Mechano-Link provides no control by itself, it's just a way to do hacking or cyberjacking without needing a computer. not needing passwords is nice, but as the cyberjacking rules state, that hardly means it's free against anything with proper security.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

fbdaury wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

JuliusCreed wrote:Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. Every computer, lap top and cell phone is a slave to your will, allowing your mind unprecedented access to any and all forms of information on the planet. Phone numbers. Passwords. Account numbers. Deactivation codes. Launch codes. Video streams. ANYTHING electronic and able to access the internet has just become your tool/weapon to use or activate as you see fit. All with the ease of simply grabbing your phone and making a call.
Then there's always the control you have over other machines in the world. Remember the scene from Fast and Furious 7 I think it was, when the BBEG sicced a city of smart cars on the heroes? Child's play for Mechano-Link. Think bigger. How about remote access to a Russian nuclear submarine via a controlled communication satellite and launching its payload at any random target just for grins. Frightened yet? We can get America's Arsenal into the air right afterward to add a few a?tra sparks to the fireworks show if you like. And then once all missiles are orbital, let's blow them with the self destruct codes just to go e the kids something to gawk at while we save the world from the nuclear holocaust we started. Yeah. Mechano-Link can be just a bit over the top.

I think you missed the last sentence in the power.

"This power does NOT include the ability to command machines". caps included.

It gives you read-only access. you can read all the data and programming, but you cannot alter or control any of it. all the power really does is provide the listed bonuses to technical and piloting skills and give a base "operate any/alien machines" skill %.

It's handy, but it's hardly overpowered.

Read the Cyberjacking section and rules in the Galaxy Guide and tell us again that Mechano Link doesn't allow you to reprogram systems. 'Machines' is not the same as 'computers' and if the machines ARE slaved to a computer control system (like an automated factory of some sort), then by hacking the controls with Mechano Link, you actually would have control over those specific machines as well.

Not all machines are computers, but all computers are machines. Ergo, they cannot be controled via Mechano-Link.

Mechano-Link lets you do the Cyberjacking/Machine Ghost thing, but it's still dependant on your hacking skill and ability to actually fight your way past data. it's only an auto-win against improperly secured systems. but sinse nothing of importance is likely to be on an improperly secured system, this isn't really as good as it sounds. Especially as you still have to actually take the hacking skill if you want to do anything but read data.

There's no contradiction. Mechano-Link provides no control by itself, it's just a way to do hacking or cyberjacking without needing a computer. not needing passwords is nice, but as the cyberjacking rules state, that hardly means it's free against anything with proper security.

Did you actually read the rules - Hu 2nd GG page 210? It automatically bypasses ALL systems, except other hackers/programmers, or advanced AI systems. So, if by 'properly secured' systems you mean systems utilizing either active counter hackers/programmers or a level of computer intelligence way off in the future, sure - no problem.

fbdaury wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

fbdaury wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

JuliusCreed wrote:Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. Every computer, lap top and cell phone is a slave to your will, allowing your mind unprecedented access to any and all forms of information on the planet. Phone numbers. Passwords. Account numbers. Deactivation codes. Launch codes. Video streams. ANYTHING electronic and able to access the internet has just become your tool/weapon to use or activate as you see fit. All with the ease of simply grabbing your phone and making a call.
Then there's always the control you have over other machines in the world. Remember the scene from Fast and Furious 7 I think it was, when the BBEG sicced a city of smart cars on the heroes? Child's play for Mechano-Link. Think bigger. How about remote access to a Russian nuclear submarine via a controlled communication satellite and launching its payload at any random target just for grins. Frightened yet? We can get America's Arsenal into the air right afterward to add a few a?tra sparks to the fireworks show if you like. And then once all missiles are orbital, let's blow them with the self destruct codes just to go e the kids something to gawk at while we save the world from the nuclear holocaust we started. Yeah. Mechano-Link can be just a bit over the top.

I think you missed the last sentence in the power.

"This power does NOT include the ability to command machines". caps included.

It gives you read-only access. you can read all the data and programming, but you cannot alter or control any of it. all the power really does is provide the listed bonuses to technical and piloting skills and give a base "operate any/alien machines" skill %.

It's handy, but it's hardly overpowered.

Read the Cyberjacking section and rules in the Galaxy Guide and tell us again that Mechano Link doesn't allow you to reprogram systems. 'Machines' is not the same as 'computers' and if the machines ARE slaved to a computer control system (like an automated factory of some sort), then by hacking the controls with Mechano Link, you actually would have control over those specific machines as well.

Not all machines are computers, but all computers are machines. Ergo, they cannot be controled via Mechano-Link.

Mechano-Link lets you do the Cyberjacking/Machine Ghost thing, but it's still dependant on your hacking skill and ability to actually fight your way past data. it's only an auto-win against improperly secured systems. but sinse nothing of importance is likely to be on an improperly secured system, this isn't really as good as it sounds. Especially as you still have to actually take the hacking skill if you want to do anything but read data.

There's no contradiction. Mechano-Link provides no control by itself, it's just a way to do hacking or cyberjacking without needing a computer. not needing passwords is nice, but as the cyberjacking rules state, that hardly means it's free against anything with proper security.

Did you actually read the rules - Hu 2nd GG page 210? It automatically bypasses ALL systems, except other hackers/programmers, or advanced AI systems. So, if by 'properly secured' systems you mean systems utilizing either active counter hackers/programmers or a level of computer intelligence way off in the future, sure - no problem.

It's a setting where powers like Mechano Link and Telemechanics are well known to exist. If the government/military/megacorporations know any system that isn't guarded by active programers or AI can be bypassed by villians at any time, then they'll secure any system of any importance with those things, and wouldn't consider any system not secured with those things properly secured.
Cybersecurity departments stacked with hackers plugged in 24/7 in shifts to guard important systems would be a routine thing.

also "A level of computer intelligence" is not way off in the future, AI's already exist on HU Earth at present levels of tech, check the Robot section. Fully sentient AI's to guard systems are already a thing.

Reagren Wright wrote:I've only banned one power combo ever. Karmic Power and Invulnerability. No bonuses against him and depending upon the circumstance bonuses to save
vs magic and psionics.

Almost as bad is Karmic-power and Natural-Combat-Ability. All those bonuses, and your foes get Nothing. Straight unmodified dice only.
Now imagine the poor GM who is dealing with someone who has 3 major powers...

JuliusCreed wrote:Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. ...

The weakness of ML is the range. If the computer is out of range, you can only manipulate like a normal user. That means you need an actual link to it such as your phone [unless you have another power that grants you a radio/digital link] and the programs on you phone to do anything, and you can still be traced. So no, unless you physically get into a nuclear launch site (not actually that hard depending on other powers), you can't do anything with the missiles.

If you allow APS:Electricity to allow you to do line riding however...

For me, it's less about the individual powers (although why anyone would waste a choice on Clock manipulation is beyond me) and more about how they scale with others in the same level. So why pick Extraordinary PS when Super Strength is the same cost to purchase and has so much better bonuses?

It's one of the reasons I broke the powers down into 4 categories instead of 2: Insignificant (improved PS [+1d6+2 to PS and that's it] and Glide), Minor (Ex:PS and Winged Flight), Moderate (Super Strength and wingless flight), and major (Supernatural PS and sonic flight). This allows for better scaling of powers since you wouldn't be paying as much for those powers that don't quite rate major, but are still much better than a minor. While minor powers that cause you to shake your head and ask why can be regulated to insignificant.

Doorway is a great power, now you can just go into a bank vault without having to crack it.
Or just walk out of a prison/ or forcefield.

Sir_Spirit wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:19 pm Doorway is a great power, now you can just go into a bank vault without having to crack it.
Or just walk out of a prison/ or forcefield.

Are you referring to the Portals major superability? Yes, even though it does not specifically say it can by pass forcefields, you most likely could bypass them. It leaves a glaring hole for the duration of the power though, so not very stealthy.

Stone Gargoyle wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 5:56 pm

Sir_Spirit wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:19 pm Doorway is a great power, now you can just go into a bank vault without having to crack it.
Or just walk out of a prison/ or forcefield.

Are you referring to the Portals major superability? Yes, even though it does not specifically say it can by pass forcefields, you most likely could bypass them. It leaves a glaring hole for the duraion of the power though, so not very stealthy.

There is also the power known as Dimensional Doorway in the book - Alients Unlimited. This a power belonging to the NPC: The Ghost.

NMI wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:59 pm There is also the power known as Dimensional Doorway in the book - Alients Unlimited. This a power belonging to the NPC: The Ghost.

What page? So far I'm not finding it.

Stone Gargoyle wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:38 pm

NMI wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:59 pm There is also the power known as Dimensional Doorway in the book - Alients Unlimited. This a power belonging to the NPC: The Ghost.

What page? So far I'm not finding it.

Sorry, I meant Villains Unlimited. Page 156 under the NPC: The Ghost

The power in VU is Dimensional Room, which is also is a power listed in PU1 page 70. It has a door to it but is not the same as Portals in that it does not create a second exit pont. It is unrelated to the power I was commenting on. I did, however, find the Doorway power in PU1. The Doorway power does not bypass forcefields or magic barriers and is more limited than the Portals power in some ways.

killgore444 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 03, 2023 10:19 pm

JuliusCreed wrote:Overpowered power? How about Mechano-Link? With the worlds' current level of dependence on all forms of tech in their life, this power makes you a virtual God. ...

The weakness of ML is the range. If the computer is out of range, you can only manipulate like a normal user. That means you need an actual link to it such as your phone [unless you have another power that grants you a radio/digital link] and the programs on you phone to do anything, and you can still be traced. So no, unless you physically get into a nuclear launch site (not actually that hard depending on other powers), you can't do anything with the missiles.

If you allow APS:Electricity to allow you to do line riding however...

I understand the power mentions that you need to be able to touch the machine to link to it but if it (like virtually ALL technology in the last few year's) has Wi-Fi or a hardline, then you can MOST DEFINITELY go online with your Mechano-Link self. Cyberjacking is ALL about hacking inter-systems and the bonuses for Mechano Link in that ruleset are pretty intense, meaning you can pass through the virutal realm with Mechano Link.