foilfodder wrote:Could you please clarify your arguement that I "omit a clause that change that significantly" relating specifically to AREA AFFECT ward types rather than parapharsing from unrelated sections and ALARM WARDS?
Mark Hall wrote:I see the confusion; you were referencing the 1st edition text; I had taken the change in paragraph to indicate returning to the original context, and was quoting from those sections.
So, the basic premise that I worked under remains possible in 1e; it is explicit in the text, in much the same fashion I described. It is, in fact, easier to accomplish, as there is no need (or ability) to force activate the ward, but the ward will still activate if touched by another person. The diabolist creates, but does not activate an area affect ward, on some object that will be touched by others (a shield, for example)*. Upon entering combat, the diabolist activates the ward and, when the object is struck, the ward discharges.
As I often say, Palladium Books are not closely written or edited. They often contain discrepancies, such as stating that area affect can only be placed on stationary objects, but also saying it can be placed on objects not in use (not in use by the diabolist, at least).
Okay, I see where you are coming from now that you have been more specific. Your statements do not change my interuptation of the rules however. Additionally, you have put your own paraphrasing rather than a direct quote of the rules, "So, an area affect ward can be placed on non-massive items, explicitly" regarding the rules on page 108 rather than citing the actual text.
To avoid confusing the rules-as-written with personal interpretation I have listed and properly quoted the three sections we have been discussing from the Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game 1st edition:
(1) AREA AFFECT p. 107
All area affect wards must have the area affect symbol. They can be placed on large immobile objects such as floors, walls, doors ways, ceilings, etc., but not portable items...
(2) IMMUNITY p. 107
The diabloist who created the wards is immune to their affects and cannot trigger them by touching to distrubing them. Consquently, he can pick up a book he covered with wards with no reaction but someone else touching it will set off the wards. Even if some unauthorized person sets off an area affect ward the diabloist is not affected if he was the creator of the ward.
(3) AREA AFFECT p. 108
An area affect ward symbol can be placed on items not being used as well as floors, walls, ceiling, so that if that item is touched or disturbed everybody within the area will be affected. However, an item in use, such as articles of clothing, weapons, tools, utensils, armour, etc. cannot have an area affect ward placed on them.
So per (1) and (3) special rules applying to AREA AFFECT symbol/ward but not all symbols/ward. There are no special limitations presented in the section regarding (2) IMMUNITY
#1) not portable items (per AREA AFFECT(1) p. 107)
#2) item cannot be "in use" (per AREA AFFECT(3) p. 108)
The original poster raising was if " they [meaning the player diabloist] drop said stick at their feet and/or toss it slightly ahead of them and wait for the areas effects to go off " was a valid use of wards.
W.R.Xavier1 wrote:Scenario: Diabolist gets a stick/log and inscribes it with a series of interlinked wards. Goes through all the necessary motions of creation but holds off on charging any of them. Once the inscription is done carries said piece of wood around until a combat situation arises and then charges them all at one time. As they are immune to their own ward effect they drop said stick at their feet and/or toss it slightly ahead of them and wait for the areas effects to go off on their enemies.
Again, the AREA AFFECT ward/symbol (and only that ward) carries special conditions not restricting other wards/symbols. The diabloist can carry and throw objects with charged symbols/wards, but not the AREA AFFECT ward. The events above would be a violation of rule #1 as the "stick/log" in the original posters example is a portable item the diabloist charges the AREA AFFECT ward while carrying then throwing/dropping said item.
Per your reply Mark, it seems you have decided that the text on page 107 "AREA AFFECT"(1) regarding
but not portable items conflicts with your interpretation of page 107 "IMMUNITY"(2) and page 108 "AREA AFFECT"(3) regarding
Items not being used so you choose to ignore rules regarding
but not portable items. You are free to make your choice to ignore text which conflicts with your point of view. I would choose to find an interpretation which satisfies all rules as written which I believe my previous answer did. Thus, I suggest that rather
Items not being used could be an immensely large immobile object such as a throne or podium afixed to the ground or structure. Thus, the rules on page 107 regarding
not portable items remain valid with my interpretation.
I am not debating this with you trying to sway you from your point of view, which you have obviously done considerable reading, thinking and posting. I am defending my stance and earlier statements from your interpretation which stated I had "ommited" important rules. I do agree with you that Palladium rules are sometimes very subject to personal interpretation. You are free to keep yours but I believe that the view I previously presented is accurate and does not omit relevent clauses.
Obviously, the original poster and each player/game master will have their own opinions which may not agree with either of us.