How do people "know" when they're out of PPE?

[PalladiumBrony]

I know in-universe, across the whole Megaverse, PPE isn't actually a tangible, countable/measurable thing (it only is in the rules so we, the players, can count how much we have left and assign it to spells), but does any of the Palladium Games literature tell us what running low on PPE "feels like" to the characters in-universe? Do they feel anything - a headache, mental or physical fatigue, brain fog etc) when they're running low/have run out, or does it just... suddenly not work when they go to cast a spell (or, in the case of a non-mage, use a Technowizard device that's been properly configured for non-wizards, or lend some of their PPE to an ally, or similar things)? If there's no literature that explicitly says it, what do y'all think it feels like?

[Grazzik]

Like coming off the buzz from a strong cup of coffee? Like running out of steam after spring cleaning the garage? Perhaps the feeling is personalized for each mage. Perhaps it is a form of synesthesia... the world looks like it has fewer sparkles than normal.

[Library Ogre]

They get a "low fuel" light in the corner of their right eye. Part of what makes Odin so powerful is, lacking a right eye, he cannot get that notification, so he never runs out of PPE.

Seriously, though, I tend to view it a bit like endurance. If you run regularly, you know about how far you can go on the reserves you have. If you wind up getting winded, you know the feeling... and if you're tapped, you're tapped.

[Prysus]

I know in-universe, across the whole Megaverse, PPE isn't actually a tangible, countable/measurable thing (it only is in the rules so we, the players, can count how much we have left and assign it to spells), but does any of the Palladium Games literature tell us what running low on PPE "feels like" to the characters in-universe?

Greetings and Salutations. I don't believe the books ever officially address this topic.

Do they feel anything - a headache, mental or physical fatigue, brain fog etc) when they're running low/have run out,

As a player, I tend to include things like the headache, mental fatigue, and brain fog for psychics when they're low (or entirely out) on I.S.P. But, as a G.M., I don't force this concept on players (though may describe it with NPC).

or does it just... suddenly not work when they go to cast a spell (or, in the case of a non-mage, use a Technowizard device that's been properly configured for non-wizards, or lend some of their PPE to an ally, or similar things)? If there's no literature that explicitly says it, what do y'all think it feels like?

For me, P.P.E. would be something different, and hard to put into terms we can understand. So, instead, I'll ask a few questions ...

How do you describe vision to someone who was born blind?
How do you describe sound to someone who was born deaf?

If you've never experienced something, I'm not sure you can ever truly describe it so someone else will fully understand. Maybe someone can do it, but I'm not one of them. In this way, I'd consider P.P.E. akin to another sense. Now, most people in the world can't use their P.P.E., so they won't really notice anything. For magic users though, they'd be more attuned to this sense. This is how they can literally "Sense Ley Lines" or get an idea of how much energy they can siphon from those around them, etc. Note: Because you can't siphon P.P.E. from Practitioners of Magic, I'd also say they have their personal reserves so controlled and guarded you wouldn't be able to sense their immense reserve (unless you're a Dog Boy or something similar), and other magic users won't instantly know you're a mage just by your P.P.E. reserve and you'd be sensed as fairly normal.

So the same way a person sees something fuzzy out of their visual range, or hears a distant muffle but can't quite make it out, so too would a Practitioner of Magic be able to determine their level of P.P.E. If you try to lift something too heavy for you, you'll typically know before you exert 100% of your strength, so too would a Practitioner of Magic know without casting the spell. You start to channel your P.P.E. for a spell you don't have the reserves for, and: "Oh no, no way." I wouldn't even make it take an action. With that said, in universe, if the spell cost was right on the range of your P.P.E. (like, within a few points of success or failure), maybe you wouldn't be sure until you tried. This isn't something I'd ever implement as a G.M., but I could definitely believe it's conceptually possible.

Now, if a Practitioner of Magic tried to explain it (or someone less attuned, like a Cyber-Knight who can use their P.P.E. for Techno-Wizard devices but can't channel it for other things or sense Ley Lines or lots of other restrictions), they might describe it differently. There's a tingle in their fingers, and when that tingling sensation fades they know they're low on P.P.E. I'd imagine one of the most common descriptions would be more visual, a blue-white energy or aura. And the intensity of this energy gives an indication of how much P.P.E. is available. I consider this the most common description because, in my experience, people tend to be visual. Also, the color of ley lines (on Rifts Earth) is something visible to all, so it's easier for them to associate with. With that said, this isn't a fully accurate description, just the best way someone can describe it (or how the less attuned have come to decipher it) to another who can't sense it.

Just my ideas on the matter. Hope some of that helped. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[taalismn]

When you cast Armor of Ithan and get just a faint guttering glow that quickly fades out, accompanied by a sinking feeling of 'oh shi-'

Nah, I'd say it's as Prysus sez; you have an instinctive feel of how close to redline you've pushed your reserves.

[Blue_Lion]

All mages can see their PPE bar, not ppe uses do not know.

[green.nova343]

Well, it's probably not to the point of Harry Dresden-type practitioners -- Jim Butcher's series shows wizards essentially running themselves ragged & to the edge of fatigue when they simply have no more "magical juice" to be able to pump out a spell.

And we probably don't need to have it as "you see a power bar hovering in front of your eyes", a la MMORPGs.

Since mages are described as having trained themselves to store PPE in their bodies, well beyond the normal PPE base available to a non-mage, it's probably some sort of nebulous feeling. They don't articulate it as "I only have X PPE left, so I can only cast these particular spells before I'm completely out.

Actually, come to think of it, it kind of reminds of the character John "Johnny B" Bukowski from the 1985 TV show Misfits of Science. He was experimented on in a government lab, & as a result of being able to store electrical energy in his body he could either discharge lightning bolts (the premiere episode had him drawing power from a transformer & firing off bolts at the MPs on the base), & could also "lightning run" (somewhere between Extraordinary Speed and Sonic Speed) when he was powered up. Near the end of the premiere, they asked him to "lightning run" & he said, "I'm tapped out, man!" before attempting it anyway. So I kind of see it as something like that -- it's a measurable amount (as sensitives like Psi-Stalkers/Dog Boys can sense it, & you can get a read on it with See Aura), but also something where it's also somewhat indeterminate. Just like the mage within the setting doesn't think about a particular spell needing X PPE, they just know how it relates to their personal PPE store.

[Grazzik]

I was looking something up and coincidentally came across this Talent in Nightbane for Witch-Hunter's Sight.

Using this Talent allows P.P.E. to be seen as a bluish glow emanating from beings or objects that have a significant amount (more than 30 points)... With a little practice, this Talent can even be used to estimate the general amount of P.P.E. a person or object has in reserve plus or minus 1D4x10%.

While it might be totally different effect, it seems a PPE sensing ability somewhat like this could be what a mage might have to tell if their own power is low... they start to lose their own glow... it's the closest I've seen to a visual description.

[Plane]

Perhaps being able to know how one's PPE base changes over time (gaining levels) is why the Sense PPE spell is popular? Though it might be vague since it tells 'a little' or 'a lot' or 'huge'

[Hotrod]

The Wormwood comic that features the Ley Line Walker freelancer has a scene where the character uses too much PPE helping a kid to intercede in a subsequent situation. It doesn’t describe it per se, but the art seems to depict it as an intuitive sense.

In Duty’s Edge, the point of view character describes ISP use by analogy, referring to it as a brain muscle that gets tired.

Beyond that, I don’t know of any in-character descriptions.

[guardiandashi]

I would tend to have them have a fair idea based on a fatigue mechanic, IE at full mana its like you are essentially fully rested and good to go, cast a spell or use ISP and as your pool gets closer and closer to "empty" you are more and more exhausted.

[Plane]

The Wormwood comic that features the Ley Line Walker freelancer has a scene where the character uses too much PPE helping a kid to intercede in a subsequent situation.
It doesn’t describe it per se, but the art seems to depict it as an intuitive sense.

Pg 10 (pg 2 of comic) has the "Independent Exorcist" Lazareth Vesper and you see him doing some hand motions as he narrates to himself while exorcising a boy until his dad chases him off.

Pg 13 (pg 5 of comic) has him contemplate a "mental blast" which is an "anti-demon spell".

It looks like he concentrates for a moment (you see him holding his temple) as if he were trying to activate the ability but failed.

It was surprising. If he had known ahead of time he was out of energy it would not have been surprising.

Lazarus has stats on page 79 which include the psi power of exorcism fueled by ISP, but he has no mental blast abilities (anti demon) also fueled by ISP because telekinesis is pretty worthless for that.

It doesn't say he knows the Exorcism spell too but that'd make sense conceptually and explain why he lacked the PPE to use something like Constrain Being which is the closest guess I have to what 'mental blast' he wanted to attempt.

Interestingly enough on page 25 (17 of comic) you see him "open a veil between the planes" so it sounds like he actually had plenty of PPE left, unless he found a surprise source somewhere all of a sudden?

Maybe he had a scroll or talisman with the proper ability in reserve?

In Duty’s Edge, the point of view character describes ISP use by analogy, referring to it as a brain muscle that gets tired.

Hadn't thought to check the novels, though I'm not sure how much the writers consult with the game designers.

[lothian]

My group always assumes it's like a full stomach. Generally you have a pretty good idea of when you're full, empty or kind of in the middle. As you use your PPE you can tell that running low and soon your stomach growls and you need to rest. It also makes overcharging of PPE like eating too much Thanksgiving turkey/stuffing. You're gonna pop! Gotta get it out soon. Not the best but it's simple enough.

[Hotrod]

In Duty’s Edge, the point of view character describes ISP use by analogy, referring to it as a brain muscle that gets tired.

Hadn't thought to check the novels, though I'm not sure how much the writers consult with the game designers.

This writer did, though admittedly not for that particular aspect of the story.

[Devjannz]

I just say that it is an innate feeling they have at all times. They know how much energy they have to call on and how much each spell they cast needs. It is part of their training as a Magic User.

[Plane]

I just say that it is an innate feeling they have at all times. They know how much energy they have to call on and how much each spell they cast needs. It is part of their training as a Magic User.

If that's the case why would the Wormwood comic show Lazarus attempting the spell and failing and THEN saying "oh, I used too much" ?

If you innately knew, he would've known the second he finished the exorcism he was out of energy and not to attempt the mental blast later.

[Grazzik]

I just say that it is an innate feeling they have at all times. They know how much energy they have to call on and how much each spell they cast needs. It is part of their training as a Magic User.

If that's the case why would the Wormwood comic show Lazarus attempting the spell and failing and THEN saying "oh, I used too much" ?

If you innately knew, he would've known the second he finished the exorcism he was out of energy and not to attempt the mental blast later.

Perhaps he was so intent on casting or stressed out that he failed a ME or PE roll and didn't realize he was low on energy... kinda like when a person innately knows they have limits (i.e. when they need sleep), but in times of stress or distraction might not realize until it is too late (i.e. pass out from exhaustion).

I've woken up a few times back in the day with QWERTY imprinted on my face... from playing too many computer games... yeah that's it! computer games...

[Plane]

mayb some attribute roll at the time you do a spell to ascertain your level?

[Grazzik]

mayb some attribute roll at the time you do a spell to ascertain your level?

I wouldn't go that far to have players actively check, as it just adds mechanic complexity where it might bog things down into rolls. I'd suggest simply innately knowing is enough to keep gameplay smooth, BUT in extreme circumstances like the heat of battle (where it would be most dramatic) or during panic or similar, the GM might want to do an attribute roll to see if the mage forgets to innately check before trying to cast. Take it out of the hands of the player, so to speak. It's a nuanced distinction, but an important one.

[Plane]

Lazarus was pretty calm initially when exorcizing the boy, he just panicked a bit at the end when he had to jump out a window because mad muss daddy misinterpreted why he was there.

I always like a 'memory rolls all around' approach but maybe with some cutoff where you don't make 'nuisance rolls' when success is near-guaranteed.

Possibly the lower your PPE is the less you are able to discern how much PPE you have?