Question on Pecos Empire

[darthauthor]

Writing up an adventure for the Pecos / Texas territory.

Reading the population breakdown. From Lone Star WB 13

445K+ humans
195K Psi-Stalkers
60K Vampires* (probably triple in Souther Texas)

These numbers seem too high. Editing mistake?

That or I am missing something. How do the Psi-Stalkers and Vampires have enough to eat?

Psi-Stalker needs a PPE fix like, once a week.

I have used vampires a lot as enemies in my games.

Vampire, 2 liters of blood, every 2 or 3 days. Besides that, with even 60k vampires would there not be a few Vampire Intelligences in the Texas?

I did some math and IF a vampire does NOT kill their blood supplier (human or other) they would need like 10 to 15 people a month. And that is keeping the people alive.
Even at only 60k the vampire population would need almost 600k people for blood. If they killed when the feed, everybody in the state would unite against them. They would blood starve or be wiped out by the Psi-stalkers in a month.

600 is a more sensible number to me.

Is there something I am missing that would explain how 60,000 vampire could feed in Texas?

I'd lower the Psi-stalker count also to about a few hundred, otherwise their would NOT be a vampire problem in Texas.

[Grazzik]

There are only ~20K secondaries in Mexico if you count up the 4 main kingdoms (WB 1 Revised).

In Pecos, 35% are secondaries (WB13 pg 126), which equates to as many secondaries in Pecos as the 4 kingdoms of Mexico.

Nope, you are right. I don't buy that number either.

Either adjust as you see fit for your adventure, or there are a whole lot of vamps desperate enough to be sucking on ratlings, which could be plentiful and more sustainable than humans. ("Ratlings?! I'm outraged. You promised me Coyle or higher!")

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There are 300-500K Psi-Stalkers in and around Minnesota, Manitoba and western Ontario (WB23 pg 100). So, 195K in Pecos seems high at first glance, but could be reasonable if they did a few things:

* Obviously, catch and release, avoid the kill to consume the PPE, but this seems the exception

* Regularly hunt wild vamps to keep numbers low, but not sustainable if numbers are adjusted down

* Sustainably farm-raise vamps to feed on... turn the tables on the vamps by using a familiar strategy. Instead of feeding humans to a captured secondary vamp to turn, use Ratlings since they presumably breed quickly. Also, Ratlings are viable for slow kill, while CS Mutant Rats are not since the retcon re mutant animals in WB 1 Revised. However, if using the original WB 1, I'd recommend using captured CS Mutant Rats as it is more in context for the Pecos setting.

* Camp close to the very few nexus points in the region to kill whatever threats come through rifts... perhaps this leads to feuds over a rift

* Summon demons or purposefully open rifts to attract prey

* Trade for PPE/ISP... it just takes a small cut... psychic communities could trade ISP to pay for psi-stalker "protection" and meditate it back

* Since LL PPE tastes bad, trade with mages for their PPE. The mages then meditate on the LL to replenish afterward... different mages could "taste" different and advertise like restaurants... picante!

* The CS may offer wild Psi-Stalkers specially engineered psychic mutants to feed on in exchange for staying away from CS outposts and communities... unfortunately, there isn't any non-GMO option

* WAR with Simvan tribes!

* ISP cannibalism - the ultimate game of tag! Perhaps there is a caste system of sorts... a leader caste of up to 45K could feed on the rest who are underlings. Leaders would have to make sure they have at least three underlings each in order to replenish the ISP every week. Underlings would have to find other sources to feed themselves and would have suboptimal ISP most of the week. I could imagine slum villages of indentured or enslaved psi-stalkers on a LL forced to resort to LL PPE by stronger groups of psi-stalkers who regularly feed on them.

[darthauthor]

Love your response,

Fun and full of alternatives.

I believe if such a population of Psi-stalkers were in Texas they feeding needs and large numbers would wipe out every spell caster, demon, and vampire in the state (or be wiped out by them).

I believe feeding on "volunter" mages would psychologically scare the spell caster. Besides the wild psi-stalker does not want to be "fed" they feel the need to "hunt"

Such a large number of Psi-stalkers need the Xiticix (or equvilant) to feed on. The minion war should suffice.
My point is, either the psi-stalkers numbers would be reduced from starvation or fatalities from fighting or they would wipe out the supernatural of Texas and/or move out (Mexico, New Mexico, etc). They can't / won't stay were their is not enough to eat. They are hunters, NOT farmers.

The CS (I imagine other governments too) would sponser they migration to the Xiticix hivelands.

[Grazzik]

Love your response,

Fun and full of alternatives.

I believe if such a population of Psi-stalkers were in Texas they feeding needs and large numbers would wipe out every spell caster, demon, and vampire in the state (or be wiped out by them).

I believe feeding on "volunter" mages would psychologically scare the spell caster. Besides the wild psi-stalker does not want to be "fed" they feel the need to "hunt"

Such a large number of Psi-stalkers need the Xiticix (or equvilant) to feed on. The minion war should suffice.
My point is, either the psi-stalkers numbers would be reduced from starvation or fatalities from fighting or they would wipe out the supernatural of Texas and/or move out (Mexico, New Mexico, etc). They can't / won't stay were their is not enough to eat. They are hunters, NOT farmers.

The CS (I imagine other governments too) would sponser they migration to the Xiticix hivelands.

You may have a point, but I need to check for myself. Time to pull out the old envelop and do some maths.

Sigh, the numbers speak for themselves.

TLDR: 195K Psi-Stalkers cannot be maintained without substantial trade of PPE/ISP, 8M+ kills/year or a combination of both. The pool of available PPE and ISP that can be traded or hunted (without killing) is large enough to cover all psi-stalker needs without a) resorting to killing the victim or b) ISP donation between psi-stalkers. Therefore, killing the hunt victim is a cultural aspect, not an economic necessity. Without incorporating a substantially large trade in PPE/ISP equivalent to 2/3 of all tradeable PPE/ISP from humans, GMs should greatly reduce the psi-stalker population. Otherwise, the Pecos Empire would have no life (mortal or supernatural) in less than a few months.

Interesting side note, based on numbers in WB 23:
Assume 300-500K psi-stalkers moved into proximity of Hivelands
Assume 1.6M Xiticix in late 105 PA
Assume 30M Xiticix in early 109 PA
:. Xiticix growing at ~135% per year

This means that assuming worst case scenario that there are 30M Xiticix in early 109 PA and only 300K psi-stalkers feeding on them exclusively, the Xiticix would be maybe extinct by the end of 111 PA. If 500K psi-stalkers, Xiticix would be extinct by the end of 110 PA.

After the Xiticix are no longer a threat, Psi-stalkers would need to find a new food source, establish sustainable hunting of remaining Xiticix, trade for PPE/ISP, learn to like the taste of sour milk (LL PPE), or migrate globally / megaversally.

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Analysis provided for anyone interested re Pecos... if I made any mistakes, pls let me know

What is minimally needed to feed 195k psi-stalkers in Pecos Empire for 1 year?
50 PPE/ISP * 52 weeks * 195K = 507M PPE/ISP

Sharing through dispersal kills

Assume injured, <15yo and >65yo can't hunt due to inability or infirmity
Assume <15yo = 15% = 29,250 psi-stalkers
Assume >65yo = 15% = 29,250 psi-stalkers
Assume 1% of remaining hunters are injured and can't hunt = 1,365 psi-stalkers
:. 59,865 psi-stalkers

Fact - PPE doubles on death
Fact - victim must be creature of great magic
Assume each dispersal kill generates 500 PPE on average that can be consumed (300 for hunter, 200 dispersed on average fully feeding up to 4 Psi-stalkers within range)
:. dispersal kill requires creature of magic with at least 250 base PPE - this is Greater Demon levels of PPE, summoning and ritual battle may be part of the process, however most likely a rare event
:. Otherwise, 15K Greater Demons would need to be killed weekly to feed the young, old and infirm.

Donation of ISP to others by those who can't hunt

Assume average psi-stalker has 25 ISP to donate every week (50% of base ISP)
Assume injured, <15yo and >65yo donate to each other to reduce burden on hunters and keep hunters at optimal ISP
:. This reduces required PPE from hunting by 77.8M/yr, leaving 429.2M PPE to be gleaned from hunting or ritual killing (i.e. hunted victim is brought back to elderly for them to kill and feed)

PPE gained by killing a victim of a hunt

Fact - PPE doubles on death
Assume 429.2M PPE is consumed through hunting or ritual killing every year, after Psi-stalker to Psi-stalker ISP donation
:. Base PPE of all victims combined must be at least 214.6M PPE
Assume each victim has minimum 25 base PPE (any excess from a given kill is consumed by the hunter)
:. 1 kill per week meets weekly requirement
:. 8.6M victims of hunt/yr

The population of the Pecos Empire is 1.64M
It is unrealistic for 8M+ DBees to come through rifts every year

Trade for PPE / ISP - a renewable resource

WB14 pg 170 - with 6400 psi-stalkers in Houstown, there is a brisk trade in PPE for sale to hungry psi-stalkers

Assume psi-stalkers have closest relationship to humans than others and willing to trade with them, for the sake of simplicity

Assume 445K humans in Pecos
Assume 5% of humans have magical powers
Assume the average mage could donate/sell 100 PPE
Assume each person requires 20hrs sleep (3 days) to regenerate PPE (RUE pg 186)
Assume no meditation or other means of regenerating PPE faster
:. at least 2.2M PPE available every 3 days or 270.7M PPE per year

Note: ISP is probably preferred for trade as a psychic is still left with half their ISP rather than be totally drained

Assume 445K humans in Pecos
Assume 25% of humans are minor psychic or better
Assume the average psychic could donate/sell 10 ISP
Assume each person gets 5hrs sleep a day to regenerate ISP (RUE pg 366)
Assume no meditation or other means of regenerating ISP faster
:. at least 1.1M ISP available every day or 401.5M ISP per year

:. only 64% of all tradeable PPE/ISP from humans would have to be donated, sold or forcibly taken without killing to reduce the death rate from required hunting to 0

Fact - psi-stalkers like the hunt and not all refrain from killing
Assuming 164,000 killed hunt victims a year (10% of Pecos total population), PPE consumed would be sufficient to feed ~3100 Psi-stalkers.
:. Only trade in PPE/ISP would reasonably sustain the other psi-stalkers

[darthauthor]

Grazzik,

You Math is delicious. I love it.

Somethign does seem left out. It is unreasonable / immprobable that no Psi-stalkers will ever be killed while hunting or just living their lives. Regardless Psi-stalkers are not immortal. They will grow old and die eventually. Before that they can get sick, ill, catch disease, cancer, etc. While hunting vampires they can be killed or turned into vampires themselves.

Unless I missed it, you Math left out Psi-stalkers dying. Don't what their mortality rates are or what their chances are of being killed by or what they are hunting. They can die from exposure to the elements too and fights between each other. Fighting the Xicitix (forgive spelling if mistaken) they can get killed also.

1 - 100 is a GUESS but lets play with it. So 1 psi-stalker dies starving, natural causes, or hunting while another 99 kill and live for another week. So simplify 50 weeks year, so half of the psi-stalkers are progressively die by the end of the year. The Xiticix reproduce faster then their mortality rate by Psi-stalkers.

I imagine vampires are easier to make and harder to kill. Demons get recycled to the dimension they came from. Guessing both are 50 - 50 in a fight with a psi-stalker. The surviving Psi-stalkers are more experienced so they are better at kiling and surviving but their PPE feeding needs are the same as a 1st level psi-stalker. Guess 1 - 20. There is a big space between new inexperienced young psi-stalkers and the best hunter killers who survive.

I've lost track of the Math here but unless the Psi-stalkers can multiply like vampires or Xicitix they get outnumbered eventually. They can't will the war on their own, at least not by limiting themselves to only their natural abilities.

[Grazzik]

I noticed a few mistakes in my math . Primarily, made the mistake of reading Psi-stalker ISP regen as 2 per 12hr of sleep. But it is actually 12 per 1hr of sleep. Which means ISP sharing among psi-stalkers is highly viable and has no material impact really to hunter readiness for action after two hours of sleep. This was brought up in this topic in 2013 and mobutto did the math simpler than I did showing just how much ISP is floating around in a psi-stalker tribe.

So, why are they buying PPE in Houstown? Cultural aversion to sharing? "Hunting" for the best bargain? The option of rough-housing before dinner?

I'd also point to a darthauthor topic from 2020 that delved into all the various things psi-stalkers can "eat". The topic

On the balance of it, it seems that 195K could survive well enough with a combination of ISP sharing, buying/stealing PPE/ISP, and a diverse menu of wild and raised SN beasties. Actual violent encounters with demons/monsters/angry mages would be occassional at best. They would be most likely motivated by something more than simple hunger and probably carefully planned and executed, like a mammoth hunt during paleolithic times.

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I didn't take into account aging/illness/etc. since timelines seemed so short. Also, for simplicity sake, let's say population replacement levels for mortal life are adequate since psi-stalkers have been around for hundreds of years.

If you *really* need a number, let's say worst-case 7 which is equivalent to US pre-1800. Lots of kids running around! Which blows my initial estimate of <15yo = 15% well out of the water. The 1800 US Census shows ~40% of the population were 16 or under.

Death by combat/hunting/misadventure. This is an interesting one, as I see it as part of the whole package of living in Rifts Earth. Survival is more than sheer abilities, as you say. It is tools and tactics. And Psi-stalkers are masters at hunting their prey and will adapt methods as needed. The average ANNUAL risk of mortality for hunter-gatherers for most of history IRL is at best ~1.5% when in their prime and doesn't substantially increase until they turn ~30. As soon as you introduce medicine and modern contrivances equivalent to circa 1900, this risk dropped to ~0.7%. Modernize to circa 1950 and this drops again by a factor of 10. Circa 2010 and life is almost 200x safer than hunter-gatherer times. Admittedly, Rifts Earth is somewhat more dangerous than 2010 IRL, but even if we say Rifts is as dangerous as hunter-gatherer life, even with mitigations like railguns, IRMSS and psi-healing etc., this would be reflected in the high population replacement rate above.

Personally, I'd go with a more stable, less risky setting with general modernization being circa 1950 and average population replacement rates of ~3.5.

Again, I don't see this as being particularly important if you simply accept the fact that there are millions of psi-stalkers in N America after only a few hundred years. What's more important is how psi-stalkers approach their hunting encounters. Planned, coordinated and optimized.

Consider the following prey and the survival tactics Psi-stalkers may use...

Xiticix: Probably use small groups so as to avoid triggering large swarms and play to the bugs' habit of challenge.

Subdemons / Lesser Demons: There are numerous posts about the use of long range weapons and coordinated fire against creatures like demons who don't understand such weapons. It could be that a hunter squad quickly wears down a demon from a safe distance, like a wolf pack, to the point where a squad member steps up to finish it off in H2H in a more balanced contest. However, Brodkil know weapons well, but could be trapped or swarmed. Still, Brodkil would be a prickly pear and best avoided, despite the decent PPE. For an example of pack behavior, in Bestiary Vol 1, Psi-stalkers hunt Black Faeries in packs (pg 54).

Vampires: Given revising numbers down as discussed previously, I'd say vamps would be a special case and avoided except for rites of passage or purges, not for general feeding. Like eating crab legs, too much bother for the payoff.

Psychics and Mages: Catch and release since this is a renewable resource. Doesn't mean it isn't harmless, but death on either side is likely uncommon. Enjoy the thrill of the hunt, but why chop down the tree if it can still bear fruit? It could be that psychics that regularly run into psi-stalkers see them as more of a nuisance in Pecos than anything else and the best defense is to simply roll your eyes and act resigned. They might just leave to look for more fun prey.

SN Beasties: Raised in a post from 2005, there was vigorous debate on raising animals/cattle and SN creatures like gryphons. I'd be partial to thinking they'd raise a SN beastie that they would set loose and hunt down. Like that space trek show with big foreheaded clingy dudes and their pet pigs. Perhaps there might be a few injuries from such a hunt, but death would likely be rare. Discussed here

Talismans: A violence avoidance option. Killer Cyborg suggested in 2012 maybe they use talismans for portable snacks , topic here. I think this makes sense in light of being able to extract PPE from... Psi-Cola, effectively a liquid store of PPE. I forgot about this before reading the 2012 post. Death from violence would be tangential to addiction or criminality.

[darthauthor]

Love the line, "why chop down the tree if it can still bear fruit?"

What you wrote shifts my view of psi-stalker tribes, A LOT.

Now, they share, A LOT.

Now Psychics and Spell casters have an etiquette with Psi-stalkers.

Don't get me wrong, I want and believe Psi-stalkers would have customs and traditions. Living together as a clan/tribe or whatever , they would have lives inbetween hunting for food.

FOOD is the foundation of all living things. How we cultivate and prepare what we eat is a mark of civilization.

Psi-stalkers are unusual in that they only need to eat once a week via PPE with maybe an ounce of meat. A little water here and there. Farming would not help them except in trade or for food for their livestolk.

I am reminded of Jurasic Park and feeding the Raptors.

Centuries ago states went to war over farm land and water sources. Trade caravans were robbed for their food. Famine kills thousands. Wars were paused or planned to coincide with winter and the plowing and/or harvesting of crops. Livestalk was slaughter for lack of grass for them to feed on. Cheese was produced to save food to eat over the winter when snow cover the ground so there is no grass to eat.

With the success of farming and supply chain distribution food became plentiful, cheap and widely available compared to the past.

Now I imagine traders delivering food to Psi-stalker communities who exchange furs, SN parts, raw materials, etc

[glitterboy2098]

I noticed a few mistakes in my math . Primarily, made the mistake of reading Psi-stalker ISP regen as 2 per 12hr of sleep. But it is actually 12 per 1hr of sleep. Which means ISP sharing among psi-stalkers is highly viable and has no material impact really to hunter readiness for action after two hours of sleep. This was brought up in this topic in 2013 and mobutto did the math simpler than I did showing just how much ISP is floating around in a psi-stalker tribe.

So, why are they buying PPE in Houstown? Cultural aversion to sharing? "Hunting" for the best bargain? The option of rough-housing before dinner?

I'd also point to a darthauthor topic from 2020 that delved into all the various things psi-stalkers can "eat". The topic

On the balance of it, it seems that 195K could survive well enough with a combination of ISP sharing, buying/stealing PPE/ISP, and a diverse menu of wild and raised SN beasties. Actual violent encounters with demons/monsters/angry mages would be occassional at best. They would be most likely motivated by something more than simple hunger and probably carefully planned and executed, like a mammoth hunt during paleolithic times.

we've been told that Psistalkers find natural PPE from ley lines to 'taste' bad compared to PPE taken from a living thing. similarly, it may be that PPE/ISP taken from another psistalker might also be unappetizing to them. and that is before getting into the issues of drawing PPE from another Psistalker in your family/clan/tribe being close to endocannibalism, which even in societies that accepted cannibalism as a food source, has usually been rare and taboo. (cannibalistic societies where it wasn't part of religious/spiritual rituals, tended to only eat outsiders, referred to as exocannibalism.)

[darthauthor]

Reminds me of The Vampire Series by Anne Rice, "Interview with a Vampire."

In the series, I believe vampires could feed off each other and doing so was feel good. Lestate and the vampire queen?

Between alpha male competitive personality types, I don't think so.

I can imagine too young and too old running along with the hunting party to soak up the left overs.

I wrote a submission for the Rifter in which I made up some stuff for Psi-Stalkers as their life-cycle from birth to death (of old age).

Sort of based their growth after wolf packs.

In my Rifter submission, i made the error of thinking they can mate with humans. Contradicts, i believe, one of the books. Well, you know, they can't make a baby with humans.

Born more human than Psi-stalker. Grew up fast until their early teens where they go through puberty and become full Psi-stalker. Given they are very instinctual and have little patience for book learning, lecture or skills of the mechanical, scientific, and such they are developed for a Psi-stalker (their way of life and community amongst their own people).

In their teenage and adult years they burn twice as bright as humans physically so they burnout twice as fast too.

Made up that, in Psi-Stalker culture, Psi-stalkers are ashamed to die of old age or to become too weak (injured, etc) to support themselves (burden to the clan). So, in true juicer fashion, go off to die hunting / fighting one last time.

Even though, in my fiction, Psi-stalkers could live longer many would not live past the age of 50. Those who did are superfit, for their age, and lead the clan. Considered wise from the many hunts and decades lived with their people.

Tried making up funeral rites, to be eaten by what they hunt (complete the circle). Pride and status goes to those eaten by the greater predator. Being eaten by bottom feeders is a humilation to both the Psi-stalker and their family.

Necromancers they hate the most. Bringing back their kills or their dead is breaking the circle and an abomination to nature and a dishonor of the hunt. Taking of their bones to steal their powers is sacrilege.

Psi-Stalkers understand hunting, killing and feed upon another. That's just nature and natural. Necromancers are perceived not as relatable hunters but grave robbers who take out of greed and lust for power. They use the dead not for food or challenge but to do their fighting and work for them instead of increasing their own fighting power. Besides, Necros are prey and Psi-stalkers are their predators.

Of course, not all Psi-Stalkers necessarily have this attitude and some of the more dishonorable types sell their services to kill SN creatures and sell the pieces to Necros.

[Grazzik]

Below are two ways of looking at it. However, life is complex and not as simple as is often hoped, so there is plenty of room for other explanations for why psi-stalkers do what they do.

First,

I was thinking along the same lines, GB. But Houstown has been playing on my mind. Would all 6400 psi-stalkers be somehow related and adverse to endocannibalism? Maybe, but unlikely. The nature of towns and cities are that they bring people with different backgrounds together. So, for a hungry psi-stalker looking for a handout of ISP, there are more than a few other psi-stalkers they aren't related to that can help. That's when I started thinking back to the conditions under which psi-stalkers probably evolved. Lots of PPE. Very little food. Extreme danger from the cataclysm, monsters/aliens/dbees, and pretty much anyone who isn't family. Such an isolated condition could foster strange behaviors. For example, what crazy person looked at the chucks in spoiled milk and said that looks appetizing? Today, there are festivals to the making of solid, rotten milk. Mmmm, now I'm peckish for some edam. The same could be said about psi-stalkers. In a cave somewhere, with LL storms howling outside, some huddled group of psi-stalkers had killed their last psi-goblin the week before and started to look at each other in a different light. Lol, there is a picture in Dead Reign of a mock zombie looking at his friend, imaging him as a hotdog. That was probably the case in that cave. So, from that experience of shared survival, perhaps endocannibalism of renewable ISP reinforced by a warrior culture that saw pain and bloodletting as a sacred act became viewed as the norm for wild psi-stalkers. However, at the same time, the lack of trust of strangers stunted the adoption of exocannibalism between wild psi-stalkers.

So, back to Houstown. As groups of psi-stalkers were "civilized" and integrated into urban life, the traditional tribal unit breaks down and psi-stalkers find themselves either estranged or surrounded by strangers without access to what was ordinarily a reliable source of food. Much like college kids living on their own for the first time and not bothering to learn how to cook, these psi-stalkers may turn to junk food or the Uber Eats of PPE.

Second,

The books talk about attitudes and how wild and civilized psi-stalkers view each other, and I kept thinking about the idea of castes evolving based on food sources. Perhaps wild psi-stalkers are like coyotes and are opportunists, while civilized psi-stalkers are like raccoons who like to wash their food before eating it. Trash pandas don't actually wash their food, but it makes for a good mental image of the distinction. In the wild, the pecking order may be naturalistic leading to pack leaders feeding in exchange for loyalty. Their ISP regen rate means they could feed quite a few warriors who could bring back prey for the leader to ritually kill. The more experienced the leader, the more warriors they can sustain. Again, such a hierarchy would promote leaders to adopt endocannibalism in exchange for safety, as the leader doesn't need to fight that Brodkil, just deliver the final blow to the cheers of their warriors.

Urban, civilized psi-stalkers may eschew the traditional caste construct and feed how and when they wish. They may have developed a more diverse palate for PPE sources, perhaps even realizing that Psi-stalker PPE isn't as tasty as what their country cousins claim (I like that idea, GB, as survival food can be gross even if steeped in tradition). So, in Houstown, they prefer adopting a consumer culture in buying PPE/ISP from psychics or mages, rather than sharing collectively, as the use of money gives them a (false?) sense of control over their own destiny. Others may be PPE foodies who prefer hunting their own.

However, perhaps the civilized psi-stalkers of the CS are different yet again. It would be interesting if they were a counter-culture that sought the militaristic structure and hierarchy to reinstate the missing traditional approach of wild psi-stalkers, but with all the benefits, safety, and conveniences of urban life.

[darthauthor]

Grazzik,

Your words are brain food.

You take the black and white world of 1's and 0's and bring to it color and symbols.

[darthauthor]

Right now my mind is racing with discriptions of a Psi-stalker clan and a backstory with it.

Either Texas or Xitixic territory.

Don't know if they should be migrating nomads or settled down village.

Manage a herd of livestock; maybe Furry Beetles.

Spend their time carving weapons: wood, stone, bone, silver, (Carving/Whittling)

Making armor from the hides of the monsters they have slain. (Skin hides, sewing, rope works)

Teaching their young.

Playing their own sport / games

Building temporary shelters

Catching naps. Learning the territory. Studying their prey and those who try to make them theirs.

Holding pit / cell with captured catch and release demons and monsters.

I could see CS stolkers running a CS prison for magic users and supernatural beings

[glitterboy2098]

temporary shelters+livestock suggests a nomadic or semi-nomadic lifestyle. specifically, Mobile Pastoralism, with the clan moving seasonally with the herds.
if you use fury bettles, i'd suggest a more northerly location given their native range, though xiticix territory proper probably wouldn't be feasible.

[darthauthor]

Your Right about the Furry Beettles.

With a food source like the xiticix they would not need them.

They would make weapons and armor of the xiticix body parts.
The kingdoms of North America and even the Splugth would supply the Psi-Stalker tribes with weapons against the xiticix.

I imagine the problem is the Xiticix always outnumber their opponents unless you trick or trap them. They reproduce so quickly they will devour the world unless a force more powerful then they are eradicate them.

Its just the Psi-stalkers who benefit from them the most without which thousands of them would starve.

[glitterboy2098]

i was thinking more that the size of the group needed to herd fury beetles and such, would be way too large to avoid attracting the ire of the Xiticix warriors patrolling their territory.. and would not be nearly large enough to be able to try to fight/intimidate their way through like that one CS army.

[Curbludgeon]

Here's a simple TW item I wrote up to allow Psi-Stalkers to feed upon a ley line without nausea. I imagine there would still be a cultural aversion. In a possible future of North America I could see items like this being a foot in the door for limited magic adoption by the Coalition.

[darthauthor]

I like the idea Glitterboy 2098

Curbludgeon you are a born creative Techno Wizard.

I disagree / dislike how the Tolkien war ended. I sort of get it from a writer's point of view wanted to side step a long drawn out war of attrition. Didn't understand Tolkiens defenses were so good with the force field until that one book. Eventually the CS would have starve them out or terms of surrender would be negotiated or Shifters would have unleashed an other dimensional horror / army.

The Xiticix Should have wiped out the CS in greater numbers when they passed through their territory.
I believe BOTH the CS and Tolkien would have psychics use to investigate. Between using "Remote Viewing" and "Read Object" for the officers in charge of those going thru the hive lands, the CS should know they are live. Astral projecting scouts should be able to see them also. Tolkien would figure it out too. Some might make it through but damaged and demoralized.

Tolkien Intelligence should NOT have been surprised. Out flanked, yes, but not suprised.

I also believe that psyhics would have foreseen the attack to Tolkiens pyramid ley line system (at the very least that people were going to die day before or day of and raised security). Individuals and adventure parties can get surprised not major governments like Tolkien with intelligence divisions of D-Bees, psychics and sorcerers.

I have to believe Tolkien would have people regularly keeping an eye on the Xiticix. First, to detect and locate any new hives or in case an army of thousands of them advanced in Tolkien's direction. Second, Tolkien would have wanted to confirm the CS's distruction in the Hive Lands. Third, the Xiticix are already a problem and Tolkien has never had a more ready fighting force to test an invasion of Xiticix territory. Lazlo turned Tolkien down in their war with the CS but they would not with the Xiticix. Lazlo should be aware of CS survivors in the hive lands, the Psi-Stalkers clans would know also. Lazlo would have at least told Tolkien the CS's invation forces were still alive.

[Grazzik]

Your words are brain food.

Thanks