Learning and Use of Necromancer Spells

[darthauthor]

Want some clarity on How Necromancer Spells are learned and used.

To be clear, Mystic types can not learn Necromancy (Mystic, Mystic Knight, Magus, etc).

Necromancers themselves have to seek out schools, other necromancers, guilds with necromancers in them, etc. to learn from another necromancer (and even then they can only learn spells that necromancer knows.
The mage who teaches can charge anything they want or not at all and deny the ley line walker, necromancer, or whatever other learned spell caster who comes to them to learn a necromancy spell that is new to them.

In essence, the GM can make learning new necromancy spells an adventure or like a video game side quest as payment to the teaching necrmancer or whomever it is they are learned the spell from.

Teaching and learning time takes at least a month? A week per level of the spell? Other?

Questions on about specific Necromancy spells:

1. Strenght of the Dead (60): Can the caster just carry a piece of the dead with them and cast the spell or does "the Dead" for the purposes of this spell have to be a recent kill. A one time use spell. Then they have to wait for a fresh corpse with an MD body and supernatural strength before they can cast the spell again to get it's benefits?

2. Transfer Life Force (150): Does the caster's body disapper or do they drop like someone astral projecting or a psychic possessing a machine/robot/other human being?
When they possess a corpse, like their zombie minion or animated skelton, do they fight with the same number of attacks they have, hand to hand combat skill, W.P. energy rifle, etc.?
If they dress the corpse in dead boy armor would it be an adequate disguise?
Could they pass themselves off enough to walk/drive/hovercraft into a CS camp?
Would the spell "Restore Corpse" be needed to fool those who demanded the CS grunt remove his helment?
Could the Necromancer still cast spells if they drew the P.P.E. from a ley line or cast it as a ritual or was donated it by an ally?
Would the necromancer spell "Death Bolt" regenerate a corpse enough to look less dead enough to fool a casual look at their face? Cleanse spell and deoderant to mask their smell.
Could they use the spell "Wear the Face of Another" over the corpse/zombie to look like the person face it is?
If they used the spell "Consume Power and Knowledge" to eat the brain, eyes, and tongue would they then have a chance of passing themselves off as that person?

The big goal is a Master infiltraitor mission in which the necromancer or someone who can cast enough of their spells assumes the body of one of the enemy. Then through a combination of the above spells goes undercover into the enemy camp.

Could it work?

How could and should it be detected by the enemies in the camp?

3. If a Vampire Hunting Necromancer in Mexico uses "Summon Vampire" (15) spell to bring vampires to them would it work IF the caster wants to destroy them? They are being summoned into a TRAP to kill the vampires.

4. Does the spell "Death Strike" allow the Necromancer to do MD damage to an MD being (vampire, CS grunts MD armor, etc) using melee combat even though the kicks, knives, and swords are SDC weapons?

IF they use magic swords that do MD instead of SDC damage does the damage still double (example, 2d6 MD becomes 4d6 MD while the "Death Strike" spells is in effect).

[ShadowLogan]

To be clear, Mystic types can not learn Necromancy (Mystic, Mystic Knight, Magus, etc).

Yes, and maybe.

Yes Mystics-types can not learn Necromancy in the traditional fashion.

Maybe comes from a few angles:
1. technically they can have knowledge of some necromancy spells (Animate & Control Dead) or "dressed up" existing spells to appear that way.
2. depending on how a GM handles things, Necromancy (and a few other branches) could be viewed as part of the Wizard Invocation list, since technically Necromancy (and a few other branches) allow the selection of Wizard Invocation as if on the Spell list. Subject to how GMs want to handle things, they could consider Necromancy part of the Wizard Invocation List, with learned-magic users organized things putting it off in an close-off section no one is supposed to visit
3. off-hand I don't know of any Mystic classes like this, but a GM could allow (for a PC or NPC concept) a Mystic to exchange taking spells from the default Wizard Invocation List for another Learned category like Necromancy.

Questions on about specific Necromancy spells:

1. There is no requirement about how recent dead the creature has to be or what happens to it after the casting.

2. Nothing indicates their own body disappears while they are off in the new body. They still retain their skills while transferred, so HTH/WPs still apply.
2a. wear any EBA yes, pass for adequate most likely provided no one gets to close
2b. Psi-Stalkers and Dogboys might spot them
2c/d. they can not cast spells or psionic powers per the description due to no PPE/ISP, external PPE manipulation isn't addressed per say (I would say it is ruled out)
2e. No. While the spell would restore the mechanical integrity of the corpse, nothing indicates it makes it look "younger".
2f. No. they cannot cast spells while under TLF, and it is specifically limited to range of self
2g. No. While they will have knowledge/memories of said person, they don't necessarily have those "ticks" that would allow them to impersonate a specific person (things like speech patterns, right/left-handed-ness, body language, voice pattern, etc). Now if you combined that with the proper skills (some of which requires observational research), I would agree they have a better chance in the early stage of the ruse

3. Nothing says this wouldn't work, but keep in mind the Vampires could defend themselves

4. yes damage is still doubled even if it is MD to start

[darthauthor]

Your answers seem fair to be, Shadow Logan,

The one question I am left to ponder,

"How would a Dog Boy or CS sargeant account for a CS grunt returning to base?"

The CS, over the years, has had everything pulled on them and being human must have made mistakes. IF I were CS camp security I'd have a resident Dog Boy as a gate-guard.

Question is, "Does a Zombie or Animated corpse set off a Dog Boys radar?"

Step 1: humaniod in Dead Boy armor approaches.
Challenge: Demand pass-word in one on one.
IF a group of Dead Boys approach. Demand pass-word of the day from the ranking member of the group.

Step 2: Dog Boy "Sniffs" everyone before entry. Detect Supernatural. Zombies are not supernatural. Sense psionics. No psionics. Sense Magic. Well, the necromancer transferred their life force into a zombie or corpse. No PPE. They are not casting a spell or should I say they cannot cast a spell. So no magic?
The armor masks their aura? (while it is worn) The armor can spell like things on the outside, like the dead of those they have killed (D-Bees, supernatural, and human dead). So that is not a give away.
Step 3 of CS security entry.
Order them to take off their helmet. Humaniod shape and the ability to wear Dead Boy armor is no proof of they are human or CS.
Right away, if they don't look human, they are arrested.
If they do, well here is where they could get lazy or be critical. If lazy they let them threw. If not, depending on the tech and people, I'd want someone to recognize the face. Perhaps, i'd have an illiterate I-pad with some facial recognition software or I'd ask their name. I want the face to match the name. I believe the CS would keep a database of the dead or missing in action or AWAL.
I suppose it depends: the number of people/base size, state of security risk/alert, location (theater of war), etc.
To be safe, ideally, I'd want a human psychic or Dog Boy to use Sense Evil and See Aura on the face of the people entering. The thing to look for: HIGH PPE, presence of Magic, and presence of a Possessing Entity. Depending on how "Transfer of Life Force" works it could be argued that a corpse or zombie is Possessed. I supposed it depends.
IF a person is possessed they are still "there" sort of speak waiting for the possessor to leave. Any animated corpse is more of a robot that a person. They are NOT all "there" so mental or emotional attacks don't work on them.
It is only my feeling that "Transfer Life Force" is NOT possession in the traditional sense. Traditional possession is for living beings. Since it is the Necromancers LIFE FORCE that is inside the corpse with their mental attibutes and skills they are not over-riding anyone else's.
I don't know if the AURA of the corpse would be the AURA of the corpse or the Necromancer.
The body is the corpse.
The life force is the Necromancers.
However, the one clear thing is the necromancer who transferred their life force (spell) would not have any PPE.

This started with the idea of a necromancer trying to go undercover into a CS camp.
They would not know the password of the day to gain entry. They would need the help of a psychic or sneak in with a squad of CS troopers.
Then their face would have to look NOT dead. Possibly need somone in the squard and/or at the camp to recognize them. Also, not be on the confirmed dead list or AWAL.
Next, their PPE and AURA. IF they register as possessed, they are found out. Depending on their standing orders they are either killed on the spot or subdued and given a psionic exorcism. IF they don't see the AURA of a magic user or possessing entity then they "should" be able to walk in. From their I don't know if the necromancer would be "escorted" to medical for an exam or if that were only an option if they are not feeling well. Depending on the circumstances they would follow along with everyone else and do what they do. Which could be turning over their Energy Rifles or carry them with them at all times. They would probably be expected to attend a breif/de-brief. Given time to clean themselves and their gear up. Eat. Sleep. Do soical / domestic things. Sensitive areas like the place where they keep the explosives, SAMAS, leadership/people of importance, electronic communications/computers, etc. would be under 24 hour guard. So the Necromancer could not just hop in a SAMAS that was just "there" and start blasting or toss a hand-grenade into a room full of explosives.
Intelligence wise, the undercover fellow could count people and things.
CS grunts and such would NOT be allow unlimited access just to visit, talk with or tease prisoners under guard. They could however see where they are being kept in the camp and depending on the form of captivity how many are being held and what they look like. Someone has to guard them and take them food.
The undercover necro could plant surviellance devices to electronically spy on people in the camp. Attempt to assassinate some people. Although ALL CS camps should have some psychic with Sixth Sense who would sense if the camp was going to be attacked within 1 minute. Individuals in the camp being attacked would not set off alarm psychic alarm bells. Clarivoyance at best.
They could also attempt to sabotage "things."

So far it looks like, a Necromaner using "Transfer Life Force" could sneak into a squad out in the field easily.
A CS camp?
Depends on the security and how the AURA of a corpse looks like while the Necromancers Life Force is in it

[ShadowLogan]

Question is, "Does a Zombie or Animated corpse set off a Dog Boys radar?"

I would have to say yes. They are animated by active magical energies after all. Their auras would also be different than normal representatives. That is arguably why the See Aura power/spell exists, and its counter Alter Aura power.

So far it looks like, a Necromaner using "Transfer Life Force" could sneak into a squad out in the field easily.
A CS camp?
Depends on the security and how the AURA of a corpse looks like while the Necromancers Life Force is in it

Pretty much, though the closer you get the more likely the deception will falter since:
-movement might not be natural or as fast as expected (at least going by Animate & Control Dead, or Create Zombie/Mummy where movement related attributes are penalized from human norm)
-they could have "kinks" in the way they move that could look unnatural or could even develop over time as the body continues to decay (TLF does not stop decaying process)
-when you have to interact with someone (various types of knowledge, speak could give you away)
-the CS could have protocols for soldiers returning alone, even OCCs that might be expected to be able to work alone that could make such deception fail early. If normal protocol in camp is to remove your helmet (unless situations demand it), you might give yourself away just by popping off the helmet (you'll still look like a dead decaying body after all).

[darthauthor]

ShadowLogan,

If you were a CS commander, "How would you run the security in your camp?"

Starting with how they enter the camp (Forward Operating Base; newly constructed but finished if not fully teched up).

Next, what does security do when...

A. The fools (30+) charge the camp in a direct attack in daylight.

B. A solo stealth attack at night (shadow Beast, Vampire, etc.)? Attack is strategic not chaotic. Assassinate leader or destroy a robot/power armor/vehicle.

C. Twelve mages approach while invisible. Looking to sabotage, "curse," start fires, destroy equimpent/vehicles, perhaps as a prelude to an attack.

D. Adult Dragon flies overhead and attacks like the Black Adam character.

E. Astral projector flies in to spy on camp (draw map of camp, its defenses, etc.).

[ShadowLogan]

Starting with how they enter the camp (Forward Operating Base; newly constructed but finished if not fully teched up).

Entry to the camp should be done at designated points, with a check in procedure. How those points are manned are going to come down to the composition of the troops, which could vary by mission, so it is possible they won't have Dog-Boys or Psi-Stalkers (to catch magical/psionic dangers), and possibly even disposition of the commander (prejudices against using Dogboys or Psi-Stalkers, or other psychics).

There should also be sentries posted on the perimeter, possibly even in elevated positions.

Though I do have to admit a lot of this is harder to define since it depends on how easy/hard I (as a GM) want to make it for the PCs (if they are attackers), and specifics about the position that can be highly variable due to size of the forces involved (a platoon vs brigade for eg) and their mission (a CS MASH camp vs Forward Operating Base vs a POW camp, etc).

A. The fools (30+) charge the camp in a direct attack in daylight.

B. A solo stealth attack at night (shadow Beast, Vampire, etc.)? Attack is strategic not chaotic. Assassinate leader or destroy a robot/power armor/vehicle.

C. Twelve mages approach while invisible. Looking to sabotage, "curse," start fires, destroy equimpent/vehicles, perhaps as a prelude to an attack.

D. Adult Dragon flies overhead and attacks like the Black Adam character.

E. Astral projector flies in to spy on camp (draw map of camp, its defenses, etc.).

A. move to repel the attack, you've got sentries who can engage them, you have other assets that can be mobilized. There could also be land mines deployed (off hand I don't recall the CS position on their use), so depending on their approach vector... You can also have barb-wire fencing (and other defensive structures) to slow down any advancement. Now depending on the size (and disposition) of the camp, you might have to abandon the position and retreat.

B. A solo operative like this is going to be hard to defend against, though non-living assets are likely easier to secure against sabotage than protecting living assets against assassination.

C. While a mage can approach while invisible, it is possible to be detected by sentries if they are Dog Boy or Psi-Stalker, or have the proper tech that can defeat the specific type of invisibility power (some are vulnerable to tech)

D. Not familiar with Black Adam. But if an adult Dragon is flying overhead it is going to be treated the same as any other airborne attacker (deploy AA assets, prepare ground assets for it to land).

E. There is actually so little you can do against this at this point. Off hand I'm not sure if Astral Travelers on the material plane are vulnerable to certain powers/spells I can think of that work on other non-corporal entities. You could deal with them with another Astral Traveler(s), but that requires you to have psychics with said power (which seems unlikely, though is possible).

[darthauthor]

"Entry to the camp should be done at designated points, with a check in procedure. How those points are manned are going to come down to the composition of the troops, which could vary by mission, so it is possible they won't have Dog-Boys or Psi-Stalkers (to catch magical/psionic dangers), and possibly even disposition of the commander (prejudices against using Dogboys or Psi-Stalkers, or other psychics).

There should also be sentries posted on the perimeter, possibly even in elevated positions."

I imagine a wall of local rock and dirt surrounding "the Base"
The total number of personal would be at least 1,000 whatever the name for that would be (Battalion, Regiment, etc). A headquarters. Landing strip. Bunkers. Barracks. Garages for vehicles and aircraft. Dog Boy unit. 640 Dead Boys. CS Wilderness Scouts. Medical facilities. 100 psychics for various purposes (including security inside and out of the camp). Skycycles. Armored Personal Carriers. SAMAS. Skel-bots.

This is just something I imagined. A GM could make it easier if the goal is to destory the entire base.

So, the "Camp" is surrounded by a wall.

1. They would have ramparts or watchtowers. Lookout have binoculars/nightvision.

2. Entry points. They would have records of who is "outside" the base (names, faces, and passwords, maybe tatto barcodes).

3. The wilderness have been cut down and carved out up to 300 feet away (good distance from common spell ranges) from the "Camp" Guards in watchtower, they need to be able to see the enemy coming while denying them cover to hide behind for protection and camofluage.

4. Plant mines or explosives (your idea) and sensors (motion detectors, etc) in the space between the walls tree line or such.

5. People returning by foot or ground vehicle are stopped. Inspected for ID verification (possession, shapeshifter, etc.)

A. Fools who charge head long across the field of battle set off the Sixth Senses of the CS on watch a WHOLE minute before they attack. IF CS guards die or are injured or a significant number of CS people on base the clairvoyants "should" have warned something "could" happen today. They sound the silent alarm. Within that minute Snipers quickly ready themselves and SAMAS pilots on stanby are in their power armor and are ready to lift off. When the enemy forces begin their run, they are quickly shot by the snipers and Heavy Energy weapons, while a few step on mines and fall in disguised pit-fall traps. Then the base wide alarm goes off. A dozen SAMAS fly over the battle field to finish off anything fighting or running away. Those who surrender might be taken prisoner.

B. A solo operative who succeeds is still going to set off Sixth Sense IF not clairvoyance. Assuming these beings are supernatural (or at least using MAGICAL powers) they are going to set off the Dog Boys (and Psi-Stalkers). They in turn will sound the electronic alarm alerting the rest of the base to the general location if not nature of the intruder. The camps security system will include video. This is were sensor operators will be on the look out for anyone NOT CS (supernatural things are going to stand out).

C. As you pointed out, Dog Boys/ Psi-Stalkers are going to sense they are around while using magical invisibility. The Dog Boys / Human Psychics will use "see the invisible" or "Sense Evil / Magic / Presense" to fire area of effect weaspon.

D. So an Adult Dragon or such flies by feeling like they can do anything. They still set off Sixth Senses (and Clairvoyance). The snipers and Heavy Energy weapon troops will get to fire. The SAMAS will be attacking from the ground or air. One round later, the rest of the base will fire their Energy Rifles at the dragon.
IF the Dragon is smart and has the spell, they will be "Impervious to Energy" attacks. When the CS sees they are not doing any damage they would use rail guns, rockets, hand grenades, and psychic attacks. For one or two rounds the Dragon is going to have the advantage and a good chance of doing some serious damage to the camp or at least a couple of SAMAS before they teleport out. Hit and run tactics like this would be devastating. I think Dragons could win the war like this and I don't know a CS defense or counter to it. As a commander I'd assume all adult dragons use energy resistance and arm half the camp with non-energy MD weapons (basically rail guns and rockets)

E. I agree that there is little one could do to defend against an astral projector who spies on the camp at a random time. As long as they do no harm to anyone they won't set off Sixth Senses. Dog Boys might be able to sense "something" and begin to "see the invisible" but even if they did they could NOT touch them. IT would take something like 10 minutes before the CS could get one of their psychics to astrally project. By then I'd assume the astral intruder was gone or would Pop back into their body as the sight of CS astral security. I don't see any defense against this except to keep an army of projectors rotating into the astral/physical realm.