Coalition Civil War …. Go!

[Blackwater Sniper]

How would you plan a civil war within the Coalition?

Military Coup?

Just fed up with Prosek?

Or maybe a shape changer has infiltrated the upper echelon and is causing chaos from the inside.

I have my plans already on paper. I’m interested in how you would begin, whether outside forces would take advantage of the weakness, how the CS Allies would react, and would the PCs get involved.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Wouldn't there need to be a substantial and organized segment of the population (besides D-bees, etc) that was dissatisfied to begin with?

I'm not really aware of any. I'm sure there's plenty of CS citizens who aren't 100% behind it, and some of those might give aid to enemies of the state, but that's a far cry from civil war.

[Aermas]

The Republicans stir up FQ.
Bradford starts to go rogue.
Joseph starts eyeing the throne as Karl starts to show flaws.
Republicans then move in allowing Joseph to make a move, but then subverting him & "avenging" Karl.
Golden Eagle flies triumphant over a new united CS

[darthauthor]

A civil war could be like the CS war of unification.

I can imagine a power struggle.
One of the City-States once its independence.
Disagrees with the leadership on:
Xiticix
Vampire Kingdoms

CS faction that wants Psyhics to be 1st class citizens or at least equals to non-psychics/mutants. Recruits and attracts all the psychics and mutants it can making an army of master psychics. They use their pre-cognitive abilities and ley line amplification to foresee Chi-Towns superior number of military's movements and attempts espionage. Counters them with an army of bursters and Psi-Tech piloted SAMAS.

Use of technology - Arm the city-state with a Skellbot factory and Ai operated war machines. This would make up for the lack of numbers of CS grunts and solves the problem of discipline, fear, food shortages, loyality, morale, etc. A technocrat regime that puts their trust and confidence in automation and robots.

An alternate dimension where the CS has conquored North America and is invading alternate Earths through a technological Rift generating machine.

Dr. Bradford Grows a clone army of Janus soldiers. Believes only someone of his intelligence, scientific knowledge and vision is best qualified to lead.

Geniocracy a system that is designed to select for intelligence as the primary factors for governance.

[Grazzik]

It's been done... CS vs FQ. FQ won by getting what they wanted. La liberté!!!!

Now, if you want to go with another round of a state peeling off to go their own way... fine.

If you want a REAL north vs south / urban vs rural civil war as in 1861 USA or 1936 Spain, well it has be grounded in the only thing that matters... a fundamental economic means of production and distribution of wealth.

With a cemented regime as grounded in industry as the Proseks, the opposing side would have to be an internal polity of equal means with
- as strong a motivation as the current regime (all da money and da powah)
- independent access to critical resources (probably agrarian based so they control all the food)
- popular support of a sizable percentage of the population (probably all the schmucks who can't live in the super cities, so guessing 60-70%?)
- access to military skills and talent (there has to be a traitorous/uber-patriotic element in the military)
- access to a means of supply and replenishment (plenty of external factions willing to lend support for vendetta or just fun and giggles)
- has a known and legitimate political claim to power (farmers' collective, the state governors band together, a genetic clone of Karl's Dad, Joe Sr., come to put him right... whatever is your fancy)

None of that happens overnight. Otherwise, it would just be a rampant flash mob or popular uprising, easily purged.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

If you want a REAL north vs south / urban vs rural civil war as in 1861 USA or 1936 Spain, well it has be grounded in the only thing that matters... a fundamental economic means of production and distribution of wealth.

See, that's what I was thinking of. But you obviously explained it better.

Point being, I still don't see a large and strong enough faction within the CS to create the conditions for an actual civil war. Strife and small scale uprisings are entirely different.

[desrocfc]

How would you plan a civil war within the Coalition?

Military Coup?

Just fed up with Prosek?

Or maybe a shape changer has infiltrated the upper echelon and is causing chaos from the inside.

I have my plans already on paper. I’m interested in how you would begin, whether outside forces would take advantage of the weakness, how the CS Allies would react, and would the PCs get involved.

A military coup seems.... unlikely. What I *could* envision is something along the lines of the following:

- Lone Star. Bradford goes rogue and ends up doing a bit of a deal with the devil (Pecos) to gain autonomy from Chi-Town.
- Iron Heart. Gets smacked around by the Xiticix with no real and apparent support from Chi-Town, giving the *appearance* IH are largely alone. They figure once they have beaten back the bugs enough (with Psi-Stalker and non-aligned Wilderness Scout assistance) to not be an imminent threat, look to their FQ cousins' example and begin plotting their own exit.

[Jefffar]

There already was a CS civil war, but only one side wanted to fight it so Prosek declared it a mistake and moved on - see WB22 and the Coalition Wars series for details.


But, Prosek is unlikely to forgive or forget and is waiting for a chance to finish the secessionists off.

[Library Ogre]

With FQ gone, I think you're going to have a lot of trouble getting one, though you might see a popular uprising, which could get bloody depending on how the lines get drawn. If enough troopers side with the proletariat, then you've got a military on military conflict. If the working class can enlist Dog Boys and Psi-stalkers, then it gets really bloody.

[Library Ogre]

Ok, a little more thought on the popular uprising idea.

You're going to have two possibilities: grassroots or astroturfed. Both are going to have to start with the military, simply because a popular uprising in Rifts without magic or military tech is going to die pretty quick. Both run into information issues... how do you get people to know about the uprising in time to join it?

Perhaps my favorite scenario is Fort Pinnacle, which is next to Houstown... so close that it's a pretty easy ride over there if you have credits in your pocket and want something that the base doesn't offer, from booze to food to salacious encounters with D-Bees. Fort Pinnacle is also at the ass-end of the supply lines, and serviced by a train (which, in my Houstown write-up, frequently has its rails stolen). An uprising in Fort Pinnacle could start pretty contained, and access to Houstown would allow the message to spread quicker than the bosses on the other side of Texas could easily control. It would likely start with some punishment directed at soldiers, especially one that the NCOs didn't like... you get a cadre of sergeants pissed at you, with their men behind them, and you're going to have some serious issues, and difficulty putting it down.

Then, you throw in other aspects of Fort Pinnacle; you might go from malcontents to mutineers, as Pinnacle is the CS's Gulf Coast naval base. This can help them spread their message, get support, and more easily avoid capture by taking the ships and boats.

[Wise_Owl]

An obvious possibilkity would be something like this;

Bradfords experimentation on humans is revealed; The Coalition works to suppress the news but it cannot be suppressed among the upper echelons who are horrified as it becomes clear the Proseks are protecting this Monster. The military fractures on an ideological basis and some-one takes out Karl. The upper echelons of coalition society shatter as no clear 'winner' comes to the front.

The Death of Karl is really the most likely triggering event, I'm just adding an extra reason for the leadership to be even more divided than it already would be in that situation. The classic dictator problem is that a military state trains your successors.

[Grazzik]

I see zero chance of any other state leaving as ChiTown is their main market for goods and services. There is no other nation state they can trade with or even to trust to pay. NG/MI? Nope, too tied up with ChiTown. FoM? Too much bad blood. Lazlo? Maybe... but would Lazlo do business openly with reformed xenophobes? Pecos? Don't make me laugh.

Bradford knows who's paying the bills to let him play in his sandbox. LS City is a relative ghost town with many empty sectors. Without political and economic support from ChiTown, they'd be drained of resources fending off Pecos raiders... and the raiders know that. He could pull off a cultural coup with Clone Joe, but why? What's the end game?

The most likely scenario I see is a group of ambitious state governors who think they can overthrow the Proseks. Years of inculcating and promoting local resentment against ChiTown, strengthening the autonomy of the state armies and militias now that Tolkeen is over, and stoking the anger of Tolkeen vets that the war was mismanaged leading to unnecessary losses. That could be a real mess, as the Proseks could tip the cult of personality around them into a fervent crusade against heretics. Karl doesn't have to die for the putsch to happen, it could be a simple event like a small casual miscarriage of justice snowballing.

[ShadowLogan]

How would you plan a civil war within the Coalition?

Military Coup?

Just fed up with Prosek?

Or maybe a shape changer has infiltrated the upper echelon and is causing chaos from the inside.

I have my plans already on paper. I’m interested in how you would begin, whether outside forces would take advantage of the weakness, how the CS Allies would react, and would the PCs get involved.

A CS Civil War might breakout with regard to:
-Dogboys (unlikely, but if you are looking for a faction that has something to gain)
-the state of Ironheart. Per text Ironheart might seek its freedom due to CS "oppression" in how it conducts things (IIRC though I don't recall were at the moment it was established the CS-IH has been "tempered" in its actions since joining), and it was 3rd Fiddle and backstabbed its way into 2nd (so I could see it going for #1 or alone if need be).
-Emperor Prosek dies (by whatever means) and factions develop over his replacement (the CS does having tapping's of democracy, which if stoked at the right time might complicate Prosek's heir being able to take the reigns)
-the destruction/removal of Chi-Town itself by some means (several options here I can think of).

[Nekira Sudacne]

An obvious possibilkity would be something like this;

Bradfords experimentation on humans is revealed; The Coalition works to suppress the news but it cannot be suppressed among the upper echelons who are horrified as it becomes clear the Proseks are protecting this Monster. The military fractures on an ideological basis and some-one takes out Karl. The upper echelons of coalition society shatter as no clear 'winner' comes to the front.

The Death of Karl is really the most likely triggering event, I'm just adding an extra reason for the leadership to be even more divided than it already would be in that situation. The classic dictator problem is that a military state trains your successors.

My only concern with that is that it'd have to be Karl and Joseph taken out in one. The line of succession is too clear, and what's more, Joseph is himself explictly wildly popular in his own right. He's seen as the bright, rising star of the Coalition, and he's also personally the master Propagandist of the Coalition.

It'd be extremely easy for him to disavow his now-dead father (Dead men do not raise their own defence) and sway a signficant amount of the population that he had no idea what his father was doing but is firmly commited to rooting out the rot in Coalition Soceity.

He then takes out all his personal enemies in a series of postriciptions by saying they supported Brad (Some are probablly even True) and life goes on.

But while Joseph is the clear heir, Joseph himself doesn't have a clear heir: if he has any children of his own, they are not the public luminaries he is, and don't already have a powerful power base of their own in controling a major governmental agency.

So if they both go down in one strike, while disgraced, then there is no clear heir, and there will be a power vaccume that could spin out into a civil war.

______________

But an even more important question is: what's the timeline that this takes place in? Because if it's during the current Minion War Metaplot where the Coalition has rallied behind the Heroes of Humanity line, and actual demon armies invading, the Coalition Public and Elite alike would be much more willing to overlook Brad's experiments of "We must create monsters to fight monsters", because as bad as he is, being captured by demons and thrown into Soul-Engines is far worse.

So is it after? Then the question depends on what the political landscape looks like after the Minion War. What factions got destroyed, what minor players rose to prominence?

Is it before? then you don't need to make a Civil War, you can just use the Qubec Civil War.

Did the Minion War just not happen in your universe? Then you need to invent a few crisis's to shake the Coalition. I don't think a single scandal would severely weaken the prosek's, they've built up too much goodwill and disappeared too many problems to go down easily.

[Orin J.]

all you really need to do is have Jr. screw up badly enough he dies or has to be removed from succession. without an heir, the whole place will burn itself to the ground trying to establish a pecking order (karl, like all fascists, did not plan for a peaceful transition in case of blunder) maybe he tries to get cozy with the vanguard and actively blunders into a situation where karl has to punish him to keep his throne stable, or slips in the shower during one of his clandestine jaunts outside. maybe he learns he's allergic to shellfish for the first time in his life the bad way.

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph as a signing in new lazlo and the coalition has to brand him a fake to save face and he's casually shanked by some elf before spec ops can arrange to recover him for coverup. get stupid with it, i say. never has a fascist empire ended in a dignified manner.

[Nekira Sudacne]

all you really need to do is have Jr. screw up badly enough he dies or has to be removed from succession. without an heir, the whole place will burn itself to the ground trying to establish a pecking order (karl, like all fascists, did not plan for a peaceful transition in case of blunder) maybe he tries to get cozy with the vanguard and actively blunders into a situation where karl has to punish him to keep his throne stable, or slips in the shower during one of his clandestine jaunts outside. maybe he learns he's allergic to shellfish for the first time in his life the bad way.

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph as a signing in new lazlo and the coalition has to brand him a fake to save face and he's casually shanked by some elf before spec ops can arrange to recover him for coverup. get stupid with it, i say. never has a fascist empire ended in a dignified manner.

I mean, Joseph Prosek is both a master propagandist and also in control of an extremely tight censorship system tied to secret police that can just vanish people. If anybody could trivially bury a scandal like that, Joe could. The CS does not have a free press, or any press that isn't directly controlled by joe, and most of the people are illiterate. Joe could be having nightly orgies with elves and other Dbee's and still keep it secret pretty easially.

There is no internet: there's barely any communication. Scandals are actually very hard to make stick.

[Grazzik]

There is no internet: there's barely any communication. Scandals are actually very hard to make stick.

This is very curious. First, absolutely, all official media in the CS is controlled and censored. There is no truly independent media and whatever is let in from NG or MI or even NGR on mainstream communication channels is heavily monitored and moderated. Blackouts due to "atmospheric conditions", "DBee terrorism", or "magical interference in free human discourse" would be common excuses covering State intervention. Scandals wouldn't even arise in official media unless it serves a State purpose.

I would see the mainstream media ecosystem of the CS as still being highly vibrant and deeply propogandist. "Internet" would be everywhere - all audiovisual, all the time. Think Tic Toc on steroids... in the cities and towns. Major urban hubs would be connected by a combination of fiber, microwave and laser networks. A Rifter article spoke of aerial repeater drones to extend the reaches of CS communications - an idea akin to the use of hot air balloons during the 1800s.

In remote outposts/villages that don't have access to the broader network, I could see similar innovations as to what happens today in very remote parts of the world that don't yet have satellite connections... motorbikes with servers ride a route from the hub out to villages picking up requests, dropping off downloaded content, and updating reference data on the village servers like a pony express of sorts. Slow, but better than nothing.

The tech is definitely there to have a vibrant media ecosystem. There would have to be to have such a strong hold on the hearts and minds of the citizenry through education/indoctrination. The question is the content. State sanctioned and sanitized. Or is it?

Scandals would still be communicated via unofficial channels. Censors would claim "Fake news!", "Conspiracy nuts!", or "Treasonous lies!"

City rats passing recorded messages on data chips or through literal cyber-handshakes via implants. The BM would have their own version of a Dark Net. So, would other pirate broadcasters. Official couriers with content for the outposts could be intercepted and false content planted in their delivery package. Even NGR content might be picked up on radio by having it bounce off the atmosphere. Strange radio signals from Japan should even be picked up from time to time. Maybe not 100% clear but something. This is 1960's tech. Simple stuff if you have the Radio Basic skill.

The average CS citizen may be oblivious to all but the State sanctioned vids, but let's face it - modern humans are addicted to content, whether a story around a campfire or a livestream of other people telling stories around a campfire. This weakness is what would be exploited by those seeking to precondition people for a regime change.

[Nekira Sudacne]

There is no internet: there's barely any communication. Scandals are actually very hard to make stick.

This is very curious. First, absolutely, all official media in the CS is controlled and censored. There is no truly independent media and whatever is let in from NG or MI or even NGR on mainstream communication channels is heavily monitored and moderated. Blackouts due to "atmospheric conditions", "DBee terrorism", or "magical interference in free human discourse" would be common excuses covering State intervention. Scandals wouldn't even arise in official media unless it serves a State purpose.

I would see the mainstream media ecosystem of the CS as still being highly vibrant and deeply propogandist. "Internet" would be everywhere - all audiovisual, all the time. Think Tic Toc on steroids... in the cities and towns. Major urban hubs would be connected by a combination of fiber, microwave and laser networks. A Rifter article spoke of aerial repeater drones to extend the reaches of CS communications - an idea akin to the use of hot air balloons during the 1800s.

In remote outposts/villages that don't have access to the broader network, I could see similar innovations as to what happens today in very remote parts of the world that don't yet have satellite connections... motorbikes with servers ride a route from the hub out to villages picking up requests, dropping off downloaded content, and updating reference data on the village servers like a pony express of sorts. Slow, but better than nothing.

The tech is definitely there to have a vibrant media ecosystem. There would have to be to have such a strong hold on the hearts and minds of the citizenry through education/indoctrination. The question is the content. State sanctioned and sanitized. Or is it?

Scandals would still be communicated via unofficial channels. Censors would claim "Fake news!", "Conspiracy nuts!", or "Treasonous lies!"

City rats passing recorded messages on data chips or through literal cyber-handshakes via implants. The BM would have their own version of a Dark Net. So, would other pirate broadcasters. Official couriers with content for the outposts could be intercepted and false content planted in their delivery package. Even NGR content might be picked up on radio by having it bounce off the atmosphere. Strange radio signals from Japan should even be picked up from time to time. Maybe not 100% clear but something. This is 1960's tech. Simple stuff if you have the Radio Basic skill.

The average CS citizen may be oblivious to all but the State sanctioned vids, but let's face it - modern humans are addicted to content, whether a story around a campfire or a livestream of other people telling stories around a campfire. This weakness is what would be exploited by those seeking to precondition people for a regime change.

Modern humans are addicted to content: That addiction was shaken off during the 200+ years of Apocalypse when there was no mass media to consume, period.

Tight state controls (and the fact this setting was written in the eairly 90's) means the addiction was never re-introduced. Smart phones don't even exist, Cell phones are of the Brick variety.

You're free to houserule in a bunch of networked media and smart technology, but then you're talking about houserules, not the setting as presented, which is firmly 1980's media landscape.

Which is good for the CS. Older, less interactive, less user-generated content means that the message is far easier to control. Sure, city Rats and rogue scholars will be spreading around Erin Tarn's writings and other such. but that's it; Subversive material is books and clippings and short video feeds and pirate radio: nothing like youtube or tiktok exists. Attempts to create such platforms would be crushed.

[Aermas]

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph

Lady Prosek IS Erin Tarn dude

[Library Ogre]

An obvious possibilkity would be something like this;

Bradfords experimentation on humans is revealed; The Coalition works to suppress the news but it cannot be suppressed among the upper echelons who are horrified as it becomes clear the Proseks are protecting this Monster. The military fractures on an ideological basis and some-one takes out Karl. The upper echelons of coalition society shatter as no clear 'winner' comes to the front.

The Death of Karl is really the most likely triggering event, I'm just adding an extra reason for the leadership to be even more divided than it already would be in that situation. The classic dictator problem is that a military state trains your successors.

Oh, I like that. The eugenics angle would play poorly with some of the most vocal "pure human" supremacists, and that would be hard to contain.

Even better if the assassin is shown to be a double agent... a pure human agent with psychic powers, perhaps?

[Grazzik]

Modern humans are addicted to content: That addiction was shaken off during the 200+ years of Apocalypse when there was no mass media to consume, period.

Tight state controls (and the fact this setting was written in the eairly 90's) means the addiction was never re-introduced. Smart phones don't even exist, Cell phones are of the Brick variety.

You're free to houserule in a bunch of networked media and smart technology, but then you're talking about houserules, not the setting as presented, which is firmly 1980's media landscape.

Which is good for the CS. Older, less interactive, less user-generated content means that the message is far easier to control. Sure, city Rats and rogue scholars will be spreading around Erin Tarn's writings and other such. but that's it; Subversive material is books and clippings and short video feeds and pirate radio: nothing like youtube or tiktok exists. Attempts to create such platforms would be crushed.

Well, my friend, I survived both the 80s and 90s (as you may have too perhaps) and remember well the incredible amount of media available in a variety of technologies. We had TV (color even!) and movies galore, VHS, Betamax, and floppy discs of various shapes and sizes. In the 80s we had LaserDisc and in the early 90s we got CDs. Yup, a lot of digital media got exchanged back in the day by way of stacks of floppies. Add to that the neat Nokia 8110 with a LCD graphic display in '96 - basic but cool for its time. The internet was definitely around full of useful and useless content. I know, as I was already using email and Mosaic, then Netscape. And that was all real life. Then there was all the sci-fi that was already in popular culture, especially cybernetics, holograms, FTL space exploration, interstellar comms, etc.

Oh boy, you made me flashback for a moment.

Anyway, the point is that when Rifts was written all of the real tech AND pre-existing sci-fi was already floating around. The game was written as a world that had pulled itself out of a Dark Age with the help of technologies from a Golden Age set over 70 years from now.

To assume that some of the tech advancements between 1990 and 2098 other than AI, advanced cybernetics, hover vehicles, advanced robotics, encrypted comms, genetic manipulation, micronized nuclear power, and ray guns would not be rediscovered, especially if those advancements provide the foundation of those others I listed and are of interest to a State looking to control the masses... is a weak argument. RUE pg 262 specifically says to take what computers can do today and x100. Well, my computer in 1996 could connect to the Internet and play a short video after waiting an hour or so. So using a 1996 computer x100, that means I might only wait less than a minute to connect to a video on a network... YouTube on a bad day with a ton of ads. So, not a house rule, it's canon that computers are 100x what they were either in the 90s or today, your choice. I grant you that the only exception to the above is any satellite based technologies, but that can be worked around with a bit of effort and ingenuity on the part of CS engineers.

To say that just because people had hard times of the extreme kind for 300 years, doesn't mean that they don't eventually want mass media with news and entertainment (useful or otherwise). If you have three humans together, two will be talking about the third. Heck, if you have one human, they may be talking about themself to themself. Humans, myself included, love to hear a good story. We've been telling stories for thousands of years (ahem, the Epic of Gilgamesh - one of my favorite stories) and, yes, the mass media of the day has changed as technology evolves - from clay tablets to paper to digital. However, if you look at ancient writings, they came out of instances of civilization collapse and "dark ages" sharing news, gossip, libel/slander, and outright false histories. The point here is that folks have been out of the Rifts "Dark Age" for at least 110 years already in a tech-driven modern society. With their media ecosystem established in RUE with additional gadgets in Merc Ops (cellphones!) and other books, I'm sure they have mass media and something like Tik Tok or YouTube. They'd be a pretty ineffectual dictatorial state if they didn't have a means to identify deviants and subversives, who might foster civil unrest, through use of a monitored mass media.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Modern humans are addicted to content: That addiction was shaken off during the 200+ years of Apocalypse when there was no mass media to consume, period.

Tight state controls (and the fact this setting was written in the eairly 90's) means the addiction was never re-introduced. Smart phones don't even exist, Cell phones are of the Brick variety.

You're free to houserule in a bunch of networked media and smart technology, but then you're talking about houserules, not the setting as presented, which is firmly 1980's media landscape.

Which is good for the CS. Older, less interactive, less user-generated content means that the message is far easier to control. Sure, city Rats and rogue scholars will be spreading around Erin Tarn's writings and other such. but that's it; Subversive material is books and clippings and short video feeds and pirate radio: nothing like youtube or tiktok exists. Attempts to create such platforms would be crushed.

Well, my friend, I survived both the 80s and 90s (as you may have too perhaps) and remember well the incredible amount of media available in a variety of technologies. We had TV (color even!) and movies galore, VHS, Betamax, and floppy discs of various shapes and sizes. In the 80s we had LaserDisc and in the early 90s we got CDs. Yup, a lot of digital media got exchanged back in the day by way of stacks of floppies. Add to that the neat Nokia 8110 with a LCD graphic display in '96 - basic but cool for its time. The internet was definitely around full of useful and useless content. I know, as I was already using email and Mosaic, then Netscape. And that was all real life. Then there was all the sci-fi that was already in popular culture, especially cybernetics, holograms, FTL space exploration, interstellar comms, etc.

Oh boy, you made me flashback for a moment.

Anyway, the point is that when Rifts was written all of the real tech AND pre-existing sci-fi was already floating around. The game was written as a world that had pulled itself out of a Dark Age with the help of technologies from a Golden Age set over 70 years from now.

To assume that some of the tech advancements between 1990 and 2098 other than AI, advanced cybernetics, hover vehicles, advanced robotics, encrypted comms, genetic manipulation, micronized nuclear power, and ray guns would not be rediscovered, especially if those advancements provide the foundation of those others I listed and are of interest to a State looking to control the masses... is a weak argument. RUE pg 262 specifically says to take what computers can do today and x100. Well, my computer in 1996 could connect to the Internet and play a short video after waiting an hour or so. So using a 1996 computer x100, that means I might only wait less than a minute to connect to a video on a network... YouTube on a bad day with a ton of ads. So, not a house rule, it's canon that computers are 100x what they were either in the 90s or today, your choice. I grant you that the only exception to the above is any satellite based technologies, but that can be worked around with a bit of effort and ingenuity on the part of CS engineers.

To say that just because people had hard times of the extreme kind for 300 years, doesn't mean that they don't eventually want mass media with news and entertainment (useful or otherwise). If you have three humans together, two will be talking about the third. Heck, if you have one human, they may be talking about themself to themself. Humans, myself included, love to hear a good story. We've been telling stories for thousands of years (ahem, the Epic of Gilgamesh - one of my favorite stories) and, yes, the mass media of the day has changed as technology evolves - from clay tablets to paper to digital. However, if you look at ancient writings, they came out of instances of civilization collapse and "dark ages" sharing news, gossip, libel/slander, and outright false histories. The point here is that folks have been out of the Rifts "Dark Age" for at least 110 years already in a tech-driven modern society. With their media ecosystem established in RUE with additional gadgets in Merc Ops (cellphones!) and other books, I'm sure they have mass media and something like Tik Tok or YouTube. They'd be a pretty ineffectual dictatorial state if they didn't have a means to identify deviants and subversives, who might foster civil unrest, through use of a monitored mass media.

I don't think I ever said they were lacking computers, media, or entertainment? You said the network would be like Tik-Tok on Steroids, I was saying they don't have an internet or platforms like Tik-Tok. It'd be more like what you descibed the 80's being like, just with better graphics. Each Mega City would indeed have a citywide intranet, but even regional networks don't approach the scale of the modern global internet.

[Library Ogre]

So, my notes on the CS's Civil Society (see what I did there?) has this about the media:

CS Media

TV, Radio, Movies are all popular and locally produced.
CS Internet navigable by headjack, but all icons give audio cues when touched.

TV
- Chi-Town center for most TV production, plus the official channels
-Each State has 1-5 local stations; most areas will only have 1 one station, but the fortress cities might have access to 4 or more)
-DVR is common, popular, and legal, especially in the boonies

Common TV Programs
-Children's shows: Puppets, cartoons, live action, a lot similar to lessons in school. Dramatizations of history. Evils of Magic and aliens, and the coolness of Dead Boys; think GI Joe: The Movie: inhuman creatures trying to make humans into monsters. Human dupes are helping them to gain personal power. Brave human soldiers stop them with teamwork and explosions.

-Sports: Baseball, football, soccer, basketball, hockey are all big; Juicer sports are gaining in popularity in CS markets, but Minitru is engaged in censoring parts of non-CS broadcasts of them.

-Crime Dramas; think Law and Order, but half the uniformed cops are psi-stalkers or psi-hounds. Most criminals are magicians, unregistered psychics, D-bees in disguise, or rogue scientists. Dog Boys and psi-stalkers gone bad are occasionally featured.

-Army Dramas: long recruiting videos, essentially. Very popular, but many Drill Instructors will mock recruits for them "You think you're in a studio up on level three? You're real 'Dead Boy' now, and that stand and fire crap only happens on TV, Puke!"

-Soaps: rich people behaving badly. "Lofites" is a popular one, about several intertwined Lofty families and their business and personal dealings.

-Sitcoms: Poor and Middle Class behaving badly. Military sitcoms, like MASH, happen, but more often involve garrison soldiers who succeed despite their kookiness... think Hogan's Heroes.

-News: Local stations produce own under orders from Minitru, plus distribute CS News

-Gardening & Decorating: common in cities on alt channels; local stations use as filler during the day when most adults are working.

-Instructional: Demon and Monster ID, signs of traitors, farming techniques, CS History, recognizing psychic offspring (which has gotten less hysterical, more informative over the years), practical repair. These shows are common in the provinces.

-Game Shows: Quiz shows aren't popular. Tend more towards "normal people in physical challenges" for money and prizes, similar to "Most Extreme Elimination Challenge". There's some market for a semi-pro version of this, like "American Ninja Warrior", using CS troops or enhanced soldiers (crazies and juicers), sometimes with exhibitions by psi-hounds or psi-stalkers, or pitting normal CS troops against enhanced soldiers and mutants.

-Frontier shows: mix of contemporary drama and historical propaganda. Not as popular in the provinces; more of an indulgence for people who live in the cities.

Individual Stations decide what to run, again within Minitru limits (i.e. must run certain bulletins, only approved shows, etc.). When multiple stations are in a market, they don't compete, instead specializing; one will do children's shows, one news, one sports, even running the same shows, but at different times for different audiences.

CS Radio
Most areas have 3-5 radio stations; one is always news and weather. Other popular genres are folk/country, electronic/dance, classical, and pop music.
-Hard rock, metal, and rap get no airplay on official stations, but the music is not officially banned by genre; some indie stations will carry it, usually in "Headbanger's Ball"-style blocs of programming. Music still must meet Minitru guidelines.

CS Movies
CS produces ~50 feature movies a year; average about 1 per week.
-Produced by private companies, though the government is frequently a large investor
-All movies comply with Minitru propaganda guidelines, though some may be less overt.
-CS Movies have great special effects where needed
-Many movies are sold outside the CS or available in provincial movie houses; CS doesn't disapprove, since this reinforces their propaganda. Despite CS slant, the movies are popular across the continent

CS Internet
Only available in big cities, and usually city-specific; limited inter-city connectivity
Interface is icon-driven; all icons give auditory cues when highlighted, and can produce more information if selected.
Most content is news and information, combined with approved entertainment. Very tightly controlled.

CS Telecom
Land lines are paid service in big city; corporation run, using mostly ex-CS Techs
Cell phones are easy to get, but require a cheap and easy license; coverage can be spotty in the burbs
Some smaller towns have Land Lines, but most use cell phones; few require licenses for that. Some cities use radio only.

Mind you, this is all "Stuff I thought of", not official.

The way I see it, an empire the size of the CS needs to have some degree of communications network; while couriers on fast skybikes might be used for things that are very secret, you're going to have encrypted radio comms, and ways to make those stretch from the Lakes to the Gulf. My headcanon is that they use a mixture of towers and high-altitude relays. The towers are fairly small installations, or on larger bases. The high altitude relays might be semi-intelligent (think "skelebot"), with some self defense capability, but mostly serving as repeaters and weather instruments. Some places might have a physical relay component... if you need information to get from Chi-Town to Lone Star, you might transmit it via radio down to Arkansas, then stick someone on a fast bike to LSC.

[Orin J.]

all you really need to do is have Jr. screw up badly enough he dies or has to be removed from succession. without an heir, the whole place will burn itself to the ground trying to establish a pecking order (karl, like all fascists, did not plan for a peaceful transition in case of blunder) maybe he tries to get cozy with the vanguard and actively blunders into a situation where karl has to punish him to keep his throne stable, or slips in the shower during one of his clandestine jaunts outside. maybe he learns he's allergic to shellfish for the first time in his life the bad way.

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph as a signing in new lazlo and the coalition has to brand him a fake to save face and he's casually shanked by some elf before spec ops can arrange to recover him for coverup. get stupid with it, i say. never has a fascist empire ended in a dignified manner.

I mean, Joseph Prosek is both a master propagandist and also in control of an extremely tight censorship system tied to secret police that can just vanish people. If anybody could trivially bury a scandal like that, Joe could. The CS does not have a free press, or any press that isn't directly controlled by joe, and most of the people are illiterate. Joe could be having nightly orgies with elves and other Dbee's and still keep it secret pretty easially.

There is no internet: there's barely any communication. Scandals are actually very hard to make stick.

the problem is not keeping information from the common man: the CS loves keeping information from the common man (even when it's not actually good for them) and does it all the time. the problem is keeping information from the elites. the top echelons of the coalition's command structure are very insuler and if jr does something that compromises the goals of the coalition said elites will know it in short order and he'll suddenly have to prove his conviction to them all or take the gamble of vanishing a bunch of leadership and everyone else being cool with it. Even karl stepping in doesn't help him much since all it really does is push the matter back a few decades and give everyone that disagrees with the matter a smokescreen and time to prepare for deposing him "heroically".

all you need is the wedge to be driven between the perceived heir and "the good of the nation" and they'll all start working against him. and for their own ends. it's shorter than a trip to the fridge to get to civil war from there once Jr.'s out of the running. the people on the lower levels might not even know there's a civil war going on until it's well underway and the top brass has moved from trying to quietly secure power to their own ends to just using populist rhetoric to stir up a landslide of public opinion. the books like to paint things as Joseph Jr. is a master propagandist, but that kind of work is a group effort and that work gets a lot harder if they start thinking their boss is up to no good. Go looking for trouble long enough and you always find it after all.

[Grazzik]

@ Nekira - Let's agree to disagree then. I was responding that they have a) the demand for mass media, including monitored social media like Tik Tok since it is an "illiterate" society, and would likely rely on that sophisticated type of influence-driven content pushed by the authorities to control the masses and b) the advanced comms tech to have a broad nation-wide reach in some fashion based on the tech levels indicated in canon and practical application of that technology. These two things would also be key ingredients in any move to incite discord on the scale of a civil war. If that's not how you play, so be it.

@ Library Ogre - Good one. Some good ideas there that would be in line with the tech level in the books - I'll have to borrow a few.

@ Orin J. - That would be interesting... the proles with no clue what's going on. That would play out like most conspiracy or spy vs spy movies. The average Joe walking down the street finds two Dead Boy squads shooting at each other... he promptly turns and runs the other way. However, you don't need to withhold info from proles... just inundate them with mindless State drivel so they are distracted or lacking any curiosity.

[Nekira Sudacne]

@ Nekira - Let's agree to disagree then. I was responding that they have a) the demand for mass media, including monitored social media like Tik Tok since it is an "illiterate" society, and would likely rely on that sophisticated type of influence-driven content pushed by the authorities to control the masses and b) the advanced comms tech to have a broad nation-wide reach in some fashion based on the tech levels indicated in canon and practical application of that technology. These two things would also be key ingredients in any move to incite discord on the scale of a civil war. If that's not how you play, so be it.

@ Library Ogre - Good one. Some good ideas there that would be in line with the tech level in the books - I'll have to borrow a few.

@ Orin J. - That would be interesting... the proles with no clue what's going on. That would play out like most conspiracy or spy vs spy movies. The average Joe walking down the street finds two Dead Boy squads shooting at each other... he promptly turns and runs the other way. However, you don't need to withhold info from proles... just inundate them with mindless State drivel so they are distracted or lacking any curiosity.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree, but because I don't think I actually got across what I was trying to, I should state my reasoning I think.

The thing is, Social Media does the opposite of controling public opinion, it fractures public opinion. The more people can express themselves, the more contrary views are out there, the harder the job of censorship becomes.

If your goal is censorship, you want something more like a single monolithic news outlet that is the only source of information. Users have lots and lots of ways to receive information, but only offical, veted sources can ever post anything.

That's my point. If your goal is censorship, TikTok is actively bad. You want to silence the voice of the common man, not give it a platform.

I hope that makes more sense. And if you still disagree, that's fine, we're still cool

[Fenris2020]

A civil war could occur if you took out both father and son Prosek (I had a Nightbane do that very thing, one was shaving, the other was brushing his teeth... mirrors).

[Grazzik]

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree, but because I don't think I actually got across what I was trying to, I should state my reasoning I think.

The thing is, Social Media does the opposite of controling public opinion, it fractures public opinion. The more people can express themselves, the more contrary views are out there, the harder the job of censorship becomes.

If your goal is censorship, you want something more like a single monolithic news outlet that is the only source of information. Users have lots and lots of ways to receive information, but only offical, veted sources can ever post anything.

That's my point. If your goal is censorship, TikTok is actively bad. You want to silence the voice of the common man, not give it a platform.

I hope that makes more sense. And if you still disagree, that's fine, we're still cool

Ah, I get it now. Yeah, still respectfully disagree

My view is that Tik Tok and similar social platforms simply appear to give individuals a voice, but those voices can be easily subsumed when needed by the algo in favor of the pushed content designed to appear as free speech yet highly refined to influence micro and macro actions amongst the unaware majority. Social media platforms are rotten to the core. Even the cutesy trend to call them "Socials" is part of the conditioning they represent. Call me a luddite or a conspiracy nut, if you wish. For all anyone knows, *I* might be an AI (I'm not!... really!... honest!) that keeps mentioning Tik Tok in a way that influences others to react against me and present counter-messaging that incrementally reinforces the perception of that platform as a bastion of free speech... the intended outcome after all. That is only the top layer of how nasty social engineering can be with these social networks and it gets worse when you know how they work on our lizard brains.

The perfect insidious control system for people as nasty as Karl and Joe Jr. that can also be weaponized by political opponents.

Side thought - perhaps this is a chance to use the hacking ruleset to go into the virtual landscape to cleanse or plant subliminal messaging in social media... a virtual civil war online?

[Wise_Owl]

So the issue with the Coalition States is it's a unitary military state with a relatively tight top echelon... but that power structure is very unstable. It's unstable because, as even the 'cannon' elements of the CS attest to, you end up with various personalities that end up being corrupt, in opposition to those who aren't, in opposition to those with varied ideological ideals. Look over the 'heads' in the coalition, there are figures within the government in opposition to Jr. already, without contending with an extended military structure. If Karl dies, especially in circumstances that make the dynasty look week. all it takes is one general to think 'Jr. looks week... or at least weaker than me... Emperor Stevenson has a nice ring to it..." The fact there is all this twisted stuff under the surface makes it all the better.

Bradford is just the easier one to go for because it hits right at the heart of Coalition Propoganda.

@Nekira: I haven't purchased a rifts book since the China books came out and have since I really didn't like there last big meta-event I definately didn't follow the newer one, so fair dinkum. Though a period of stress in fighting demons is even more likely to provide a fracture point for a regime, and honestly, when you can legitimately come forward with 'Jr. Killed Karl, Jr was a shape-shifting Demon! And real Jr. was murdereed two years ago!' and have it be an entirely beleivable plot?

Resolvin the succession question is always a problem and the list of dictators whose sons then lost the empire is as long as is it's history(see the FIrst Emperor of China for example...) Now smooth dynastic successions of the modern sense are more rare... The DPRK is the most obvous example, but they were 'smooth' only in the sense the dynast won.

Also just from an 'RP interesting' point of view I think a civil conflict in which Officer is killing Officer and you don' tknow who to trust while the wolves circle(metaphorically) provides the most interesting venue.

[Library Ogre]

Resolvin the succession question is always a problem and the list of dictators whose sons then lost the empire is as long as is it's history(see the FIrst Emperor of China for example...) Now smooth dynastic successions of the modern sense are more rare... The DPRK is the most obvous example, but they were 'smooth' only in the sense the dynast won.

The one I keep thinking of is Alexander the Great.

[Aermas]

It would be pretty cool to see the CS fracture into competing power bases. Each claiming to be the "True" Empire.

Bradford in Lonestar, with no regulation, using his super-men & other horrors.

Joseph in Chi-Town running a similar CS as we've seen.

Another general who has made pacts with demons/vampires & other hostile forces & now runs a spooky evil magic CS with ACTUAL dead Deadboys as troopers

Free Quebec still being themselves but trying to expand into old CS territory

A general backed by Republicans trying to make a "Coalition States of America"

A wildcard general mostly doing raids & disappearing into the woods

[Nekira Sudacne]

So the issue with the Coalition States is it's a unitary military state with a relatively tight top echelon... but that power structure is very unstable. It's unstable because, as even the 'cannon' elements of the CS attest to, you end up with various personalities that end up being corrupt, in opposition to those who aren't, in opposition to those with varied ideological ideals. Look over the 'heads' in the coalition, there are figures within the government in opposition to Jr. already, without contending with an extended military structure. If Karl dies, especially in circumstances that make the dynasty look week. all it takes is one general to think 'Jr. looks week... or at least weaker than me... Emperor Stevenson has a nice ring to it..." The fact there is all this twisted stuff under the surface makes it all the better.

Bradford is just the easier one to go for because it hits right at the heart of Coalition Propoganda.

@Nekira: I haven't purchased a rifts book since the China books came out and have since I really didn't like there last big meta-event I definately didn't follow the newer one, so fair dinkum. Though a period of stress in fighting demons is even more likely to provide a fracture point for a regime, and honestly, when you can legitimately come forward with 'Jr. Killed Karl, Jr was a shape-shifting Demon! And real Jr. was murdereed two years ago!' and have it be an entirely beleivable plot?

Resolvin the succession question is always a problem and the list of dictators whose sons then lost the empire is as long as is it's history(see the FIrst Emperor of China for example...) Now smooth dynastic successions of the modern sense are more rare... The DPRK is the most obvous example, but they were 'smooth' only in the sense the dynast won.

Also just from an 'RP interesting' point of view I think a civil conflict in which Officer is killing Officer and you don' tknow who to trust while the wolves circle(metaphorically) provides the most interesting venue.

Eh. I have come to find I tend to disagree.

Not speaking of you in partciular, but I have noticed a broad trend in gaming that seems to go like.

"Player choice is good, player empowerment is good, therefore more choice and more empowerment means better game"

In my experiance, having a smaller set of better defined, more meaningful choices that have lots of interactions tends to make a much better game than a million options but no real concequences for them because they're all roughly as good.

To the extent that a CS Civil War plot is desireable, I'd rather have just two or three well defined factions with logical motives and goals than a free for all where every general is out for themselves

[Blue_Lion]

The CS already had a civil war when FQ left.

I could see Dr Bradford going rouge and Lone star breaking away next.

[Fenris2020]

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph

Lady Prosek IS Erin Tarn dude

Where do you get this idea?
I've heard two other people espouse it, I just haven't seen any evidence.

[eliakon]

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph

Lady Prosek IS Erin Tarn dude

Where do you get this idea?
I've heard two other people espouse it, I just haven't seen any evidence.

This is Sparta Fannon we don't need pesky "facts" or "evidence" here nor feeble logic...
We use what sounds like it fits and run with it until it falls apart, then we zombifiy the pieces and race them around the halls....

[Aermas]

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph

Lady Prosek IS Erin Tarn dude

Where do you get this idea?
I've heard two other people espouse it, I just haven't seen any evidence.

Erin Tarn has surprising insight into the Prosek family
Erin Tarn has two bio-system fingers on her left hand
Lady Prosek has two bio-system fingers on her left hand
Erin Tarn adventures under the protection of Lord Coake
Lady Prosek was rescued by Lord Coake from Dunscon
Erin Tarn had access to the ChiTown libraries when she was younger
Erin Tarn & Lady Prosek come from humble Midwestern beginings.

[Fenris2020]

maybe he's caught asking erin tarn for an autograph

Lady Prosek IS Erin Tarn dude

Where do you get this idea?
I've heard two other people espouse it, I just haven't seen any evidence.

Erin Tarn has surprising insight into the Prosek family
Erin Tarn has two bio-system fingers on her left hand
Lady Prosek has two bio-system fingers on her left hand
Erin Tarn adventures under the protection of Lord Coake
Lady Prosek was rescued by Lord Coake from Dunscon
Erin Tarn had access to the ChiTown libraries when she was younger
Erin Tarn & Lady Prosek come from humble Midwestern beginings.

Wasn't Erin Tarn in Africa, then Wormwood, when Lady Prosek was rescued?

[TanisdeTagu]

There is an easy way for a certain D-bee to cause a melt down of the CS, leading to civil war and a possible break up of the CS.

What if Lady Prosek was not not really rescued. They only think she was rescued. in reality a Changeling that has studied Lady Prosek was rescued. During a public appearance she assassinates Joseph Prosek II. The changeling then shape shifts into into another face and disappears. Panic erupts, dozens accuse each other of being a changeling, incent people are killed. in the days that follow you get a new version of the Salem witch trials and the the competence of the Emperor is openly questioned. How did he not know that his wife was not his wife? Chaos ensues. No one is in charge and factions form and break apart over accusations of Changling continue to occurs. The changeling keeps impersonations various officials and issuing opposing edicts, leading to more paranoia to run rampant and confusion about who is in charge.

The other CS states close their boarder to everyone, to prevent an infiltration. They effectually become independent Nations, but do not suffer as much internal conflict as Chi-Town.

[Aermas]

Wasn't Erin Tarn in Africa, then Wormwood, when Lady Prosek was rescued?

Well she could have been do all of that while "imprisoned". Erin Tarn has actually been pretty quiet since her "rescue".

[Blue_Lion]

Wasn't Erin Tarn in Africa, then Wormwood, when Lady Prosek was rescued?

Well she could have been do all of that while "imprisoned". Erin Tarn has actually been pretty quiet since her "rescue".

Photo of her younger self is on the back of her book.
I would think photos of Lady prosek are available to CS.
The CS wanted posters have pictures of her.
She was active at the start of the SoT story line.

So while a interesting conspiracy theory, if it was true it would be found out.

[Sohisohi]

It's been done... CS vs FQ. FQ won by getting what they wanted. La liberté!!!!

I wouldn't mind a CS vs Fa 2 War, both sides are just so much stronger now.