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These questions have bothered me for a while, and I've done searches here, checked FAQs, and still can't find a clear answer. Forgive me if I've overlooked any.

A Mystic OCC can make only a small number of psionic power selections, so it's imperative they choose wisely. The Sensitive category has 3 powers that feel redundant at a glance. Mind Block, Mask ISP, and Mask PPE. Though Mind Block doesn't explicitly state it, See Aura does state that Mind Block will result in nothing showing up to the reader: PPE, ISP, or the like.

Question 1: does Mind Block definitively conceal a user's ISP and PPE, as effectively as the separate abilities of Mask ISP and Mask PPE?

Following from that: Mask ISP states that no other psionic abilities can be used while it's active. Meaning that Mask PPE can't be used concurrently with Mask ISP. Which means that a Mystic couldn't use both to hide both aspects of their abilities. Thus, even if either Mask is superior to Mind Block, if they can't be used concurrently, they can't prevent a Mystic from being tracked.

Moving on. Mystics get their 'open to the supernatural' trance, which renders them a 'cosmic mind blank'.

This is where it gets complicated. If a Psi-Stalker/Dog Boy can tell when someone's using psionics/magic, and a Mystic is using Mind Block, that would show up. I'm not asking if this is the case, I'm saying it must based on descriptions. ISP has been expended to activate it, which alone should leave some 'residue' that can be detected.

However, in the case of the Mystic OCC's special trance, it requires no activation cost. If nothing is being spent, then nothing can be detected.

Question 2: is the Mystic's class ability effectively an enhanced, untraceable form of Mind Block?

1: Mind block does not. Yes, Mind Block stops see aura from detecting PPE/ISP, but that's a limitation of See Aura, not a function of Mind Block, and non-Aura related ways of detecting PPE/ISP are unhindered by Mind Block.

2: Goodness no, The Mystic Ability is the polar opposite of a Mind Block, it makes you easier to detect. The entire, explicit point is to be open and receptive to telepathic and magical communication, not cut off from them.

At this point you might be asking how are you supposed to effectively hide a mystic from Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys then. and the answer is: You're not supposed to be able to do that. I mean think about it, if mystics could just hide from dog boys whenever they wanted the Coalition States as they're written wouldn't really work at all, would they?

I could be wrong but

When trying to hide from a Psi-Stalker or Dog Boy. it takes planning.

I think of it as a short term way of sneaking past a check point of the CS or such.

Burn ISP using psionics
Maybe alter aura to look mundain.

Burn PPE off. It would take hours of sleep and/or medation to get it up again.

there you go.

For a few hours you look like a normal human.

IF you are bing tracked.
Then it is about staying out of sight in your escape and evasion.
As long as you don't sleep or meditate you don't regain ISP or PPE.

You are undetectable when unseen, by sense magic or psionics.

You still give off a smell but if they don't know your scent?
You could be anyone?

Or camouflage it up with deer pee.
I hear hard core hunters do.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 10:37 am
2: Goodness no, The Mystic Ability is the polar opposite of a Mind Block, it makes you easier to detect. The entire, explicit point is to be open and receptive to telepathic and magical communication, not cut off from them.

Well, it's a bit of a mixed bag.

Opening Oneself to the Supernatural (RUE 118) turns the Mystic into an open vessel that Entities and such can speak, and makes them "receptive to all forms of telepathic and empathic communication."
But that doesn't necessarily make them EASIER to detect.
It's like if you leave the door to your house open and unlocked, that doesn't make your house more visible, even if it's a kind of invitation to anybody wandering by who can see the door.

Because being Open also makes the character "completely invisible to all psionic probes (sort of a cosmic mind blank) and even becomes physically invisible to those around him as he seems to melt into the environment. One might think of this as a psychic Prowl or magic Chameleon, only the Mystic does not move."

It makes it easier for any Supernatural Evil the Mystic is trhing to sense, to also sense the Mystic, but that wouldn't cover Dog Boys.

So I'd say that being Open would in fact make it harder for Dog Boys to sense the Mystic, under the banner of being "invisible to all psionic probes," because I'd consider the Sense Magic & Psychic Energy ability to be a kind of psionic probe, where I wouldn't exactly consider being Open to the Supernatural as a psionic ability.

So I think that a Mystic sitting immobile and mentally not-at-home while they're Open wouldn't be able to be detected by a Dog Boy, but they might well be able to be detected by other things, if there's Supernatural Evil nearby that the Mystic senses, or if there are any Entities or whatever passing by which happen to notice the mage.

If I was GMing for a party who wanted to smuggle a Mystic through CS territory, having the Mystic sitting in the back of a car while Open would probably work pretty well. Depending on Random encounters and such.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 10:37 am 1: Mind block does not. Yes, Mind Block stops see aura from detecting PPE/ISP, but that's a limitation of See Aura, not a function of Mind Block, and non-Aura related ways of detecting PPE/ISP are unhindered by Mind Block.

Okay, this makes sense to me. Mind Block can defeat another mage using See Aura, for example, or an 'average' psionic character using See Aura, but not a specialized hunter/tracker like a Psi-Stalker or Dog Boy.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 10:37 am 2: Goodness no, The Mystic Ability is the polar opposite of a Mind Block, it makes you easier to detect. The entire, explicit point is to be open and receptive to telepathic and magical communication, not cut off from them.

Read Killer Cyborg's response, it's pretty much in line with my interpretation of the Mystic OCC in RUE.

I know Palladium editing is notoriously not-helpful sometimes, but the way the paragraphs are broken down in the 'Opening Oneself to the Supernatural' passage, implies to me that there are separate facets to its usage. Allow me to explain in detail:

Paragraph 1 covers the ability to become a medium through which entities can speak.

Paragraph 2 says Mystics in the open state are more receptive to telepathic and empathic communications, including Ley Line Transmission.

Paragraph 3 says the Mystic cannot speak or move while in the 'open state trance'. They become invisible (50% +5 per level for remaining undetected while being actively searched for, which means at level 10 they have no chance of being detected?) and get a +8 to psionic defense and a +4 to magic defense. Considering that Mind Block only gives a +1 versus psionic attacks, the implication to me is that the 'open state trance' is far, far more powerful. It is a selective ability in which the Mystic can pick up signals and sense nearby entities/magic, but at the same time is extremely resistant to unwanted contact.

Finally, paragraph 4 covers the 'open state' without necessarily being in a trance. It is in 'sensing mode' that the Mystic can, evidently, move again. I infer this because only in this paragraph is it stated that the Mystic loses any chance at initiative and 1 melee action. This debuff would be pointless if the Mystic was in a 'trance state' because we already know they can't move at all in a trance. Presumably all they can do in a trance, is defend themselves from psionic/magic attacks. Nothing physical. To lose a melee action implies either physical or offensive mental action can be taken.

Further, 'sensing mode' implies that the Mystic can only be back-traced while actively searching for supernatural evil. The description then re-iterates the bonus to magic and defense from being in the trance; which again implies to me that 'sensing mode' and 'trance mode' are two different things.

It makes a little more sense, maybe, if you think of it in terms of electronic warfare. I immediately think of submarines, and sonar sending out a 'ping'; this is 'active scanning' which an enemy can pick up on. While passive sensors, like hydrophones, simply listen for activity, and cannot be detected. Thus a Mystic in 'trance state' can be considered in 'passive scanning mode' while 'sensing mode' is an active scan.

Nekira Sudacne wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 10:37 am At this point you might be asking how are you supposed to effectively hide a mystic from Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys then. and the answer is: You're not supposed to be able to do that. I mean think about it, if mystics could just hide from dog boys whenever they wanted the Coalition States as they're written wouldn't really work at all, would they?

If the only way the Mystic can hide is by remaining totally stationary in a trance, then I don't consider it a huge imbalancing factor. The second they leave the trance and start to use their abilities like normal, they become just as visible as anybody else.

There's no indication a Mystic can launch psionic or magical attacks while in a trance. Thus it is purely defensive in nature.

darthauthor wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 12:13 pm When trying to hide from a Psi-Stalker or Dog Boy. it takes planning.

I think of it as a short term way of sneaking past a check point of the CS or such.

Burn ISP using psionics
Maybe alter aura to look mundain.

Burn PPE off. It would take hours of sleep and/or medation to get it up again.

there you go.

For a few hours you look like a normal human.

Unfortunately Mystic OCC doesn't get access to Alter Aura. Furthermore, any use of 'active' magic or psionic abilities is pretty much a giant 'look at me' signal to Psi-Stalkers or Dog Boys.

I honestly don't understand why 'Mask PPE' specifically mentions Mystics being able to hide their magical ability from Psi/Dogs, when using psionics actually increases the range at which you can be detected. If you just don't use any powers at all, you're harder to detect in terms of range proximity. In either case, you still couldn't make it through a checkpoint, because masking PPE while actively using psionics to do so, wouldn't mask your ISP. In other words, Mask PPE is good for hiding from PPE vampires especially, but it's not useful for appearing totally mundane.

It looks to me like psionic characters who have access to either Alter Aura or Mind Block can conceal themselves from anyone (magic or psionic) using See Aura. Similarly, a mage using Transferal (level 9 invocation, BoM) can also dupe See Aura. A Mystic can also defeat See Aura with Mind Block.

Why, then do Mask ISP and Mask PPE exist, if not to specifically counter Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys? Both descriptions in RUE mention Psi/Dogs. Taken literally, Mask ISP utterly defeats Psi/Dogs, because it says it counters both those who can read auras and those who can sense psionics. Shouldn't we just go with that description?

Yet under the Mind Melter description in RUE, it says they are easily detected by Psi/Dogs. Even though they get access to sensitive psionics at level 1 and thus could easily take Mask ISP. I can see why Alter Aura isn't enough to defeat Psi/Dogs, but going strictly by the description, Mask ISP should be far more effective.

MyDumpStatIsMA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:42 pm Why, then do Mask ISP and Mask PPE exist, if not to specifically counter Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys? Both descriptions in RUE mention Psi/Dogs. Taken literally, Mask ISP utterly defeats Psi/Dogs, because it says it counters both those who can read auras and those who can sense psionics. Shouldn't we just go with that description?

I would interpret it this way - with Mask I.S.P. in place, the psychic can't "use" any of their psionic abilities, but it doesn't say that it halts any already activated powers. So, the Mystic can activate Mask P.P.E. first, which lasts for 10 minutes per level, and then activates Mask I.S.P., which masks "all aspects of their psionic energy and powers" - including the currently active psionic powers. Voila - one hidden Mystic.

Soldier of Od wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:14 am

MyDumpStatIsMA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 5:42 pm Why, then do Mask ISP and Mask PPE exist, if not to specifically counter Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys? Both descriptions in RUE mention Psi/Dogs. Taken literally, Mask ISP utterly defeats Psi/Dogs, because it says it counters both those who can read auras and those who can sense psionics. Shouldn't we just go with that description?

I would interpret it this way - with Mask I.S.P. in place, the psychic can't "use" any of their psionic abilities, but it doesn't say that it halts any already activated powers. So, the Mystic can activate Mask P.P.E. first, which lasts for 10 minutes per level, and then activates Mask I.S.P., which masks "all aspects of their psionic energy and powers" - including the currently active psionic powers. Voila - one hidden Mystic.

I guess that could work, yeah.

Ultimately though, I'd like to avoid being forced to take Mind Block and Mask PPE/ISP, simply because the Mystic OCC's psionic selection is so limited.

In an ideal world, it'd be nice to take none of them, allowing the Mystic to take 3 sensitive powers that weren't purely about shielding/hiding. And this would be possible because of the class ability (the trance specifically) essentially performing the same functions, albeit with the drawback of being immobilized.

In a less ideal world (i.e, where the GM doesn't agree with my interpretation of the Mystic trance), it'd be nice to just take Mask PPE/ISP and leave one free spot to take something besides Mind Block.

As far as I'm concerned, the Mystic is so inherently hobbled by its slow spell learning progression and its very limited psionic choices, its special class ability is pretty much the only thing acting as a counterbalance to those drawbacks. Admittedly when I first read the description of 'Opening Oneself to the Supernatural', my gut reaction was that it's pretty niche and not valuable in many situations. But upon reading it lately, it occurred to me that no time is given for how long it takes to enter the trance; so a Mystic should theoretically be able to activate it as reflexively as a Mind Block in order to get the +8 vs psionics and +4 vs magic attacks. Likewise, you should be able to run away from somebody, duck around a corner, and immediately turn invisible by entering the trance.

All of a sudden, the Mystic doesn't look so weak.

I don't think you need mind block as well if hiding your powers is your goal. The other two powers will do fine.

And this is only really if you are building a character you know will be trying to sneak into well patrolled areas of Coalition territory. If you are adventuring in Dinosaur Swamp or Arzno, hiding from dog boys is not such a priority.

Soldier of Od wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 6:10 am I don't think you need mind block as well if hiding your powers is your goal. The other two powers will do fine.

And this is only really if you are building a character you know will be trying to sneak into well patrolled areas of Coalition territory. If you are adventuring in Dinosaur Swamp or Arzno, hiding from dog boys is not such a priority.

Yes, without the immediate threat of CS forces, it's far less of an issue. But there are still plenty of potential enemies capable of seeing auras. It might make more sense to forego choosing regular Mind Block until the Mystic reaches level 4, whereupon they can get the super, Group Mind Block. At that point you can fall back on your Mystic trance for personal protection, or use the Group Block to protect your party.

I like to cover all the angles, so to speak. So Mystic trance theoretically counters everything, including CS detection, while Group Block defeats the average aura reader. And I'm still left with 3 sensitive psionic choices.