Non-Palladium vampires in Rifts

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

This is a concept I'd like to share/get opinions on.

I like the idea of a vampire player character, but have never been keen on the Deluded or Heroic vampire PCCs. I don't like the whole vampire intelligence background in Rifts for player characters; I think it's fine for enemy NPCs, so I'm not aiming to reinvent the Rifts vampire in general. What I want to do is play a vampire with slightly different rules and vastly different origins.

The best (for me, anyway) inspiration for such a vampire alternative is from World of Darkness. Specifically I wanted to use material from the Kuei-jin. I wanted to homebrew as little as possible and instead do it by the rules.

I started with a Heroes Unlimited 2 Psionic origin. After drawing up a WoD vampire by its rules and then seeing what disciplines I'd have with a moderately experienced character, I concluded that psionics by themselves could simulate the majority of vampiric disciplines from WoD. Whatever psionics can't manage, various Arts of Invisibility and Zenjoriki can; the latter two in particular are perfect at simulating very specific WoD powers.

So I take my HU2 psionic hero and make them a master psionic. The only bit of homebrew I indulged in is replacing one of the 10 psionic selections I get with Shadow Bolt, since that perfectly recreates a Yin energy attack from WoD. I want to make these conversions as close to 1:1 as possible. To use the Shadow Bolt as an ISP ability I could simply double its PPE cost.

Afterwards, I made the character into a Mega-Hero per the HU2 rules. There's an undead option which fit well, with little modification. I ignored the 1d10 penalty to beauty, since WoD vampires are not (typically) corpse-like. I compensated by adding a weakness to fire, above and beyond all the usual undead weaknesses. Further, I would adhere to the HU2 rules rather than the Rifts ones, regarding what kinds of weapons can damage vampires; since this is a character created under HU2 rules and transferred to Rifts.

Finally, per the rules in Ninjas and Superspies for conversion into HU, I sacrificed 6 secondary skills in exchange for Snake Style Kung Fu. Since this is a HU2 character, I calculated my starting number of melee attacks to be 2 (base amount for HU2) + 1 (from Snake Style) + 1 (from boxing); rather than using the base attack amount from N&S.

(note: taking the Snake Style directly from Rifts China 2 would be far more powerful than converting from N&S, but raw power isn't my goal as much as accuracy; and the N&S one is more suitable)

The final step would be adding the various Conversion Book 1 bonuses for a HU character going into Rifts, but honestly, those feel like overkill.

I also would like to forego levelling up my psionic abilities as a master psionic normally does; because there are many powers that don't fit with my vampire concept at all. I'd be fine with taking maybe a few new powers (Empathic Transmission, etc) and then stopping, permanently. The only normal progression I'd keep is the +10 to ISP per level (though even it is unnecessary) and the Snake Style levelling up.

Did I do it all right, in terms of conversion rules?

[Grazzik]

No idea if you did it right or not - very complicated. Would have been way simpler to just take a blank character sheet and fill in all the abilities, skills and fighting moves you wanted. Sprinkle a little buffs and weaknesses as you home brewed and finish with some cosmetic choices. Done. Forget all the "conversion". You are starting with a concept from outside the PB gamelines, so this just all reads as if you made more work for yourself than necessary to have the appearance of a canon-adjacent character. I'd say the Rule of Cool to get what you want would beat out the tomfoolery of rules lawyering in this case. And since it is Rifts, anything would be reasonable since anything can step through a Rift... as long as your GM feels it wouldn't disrupt their machinations too much.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

No idea if you did it right or not - very complicated. Would have been way simpler to just take a blank character sheet and fill in all the abilities, skills and fighting moves you wanted. Sprinkle a little buffs and weaknesses as you home brewed and finish with some cosmetic choices. Done. Forget all the "conversion". You are starting with a concept from outside the PB gamelines, so this just all reads as if you made more work for yourself than necessary to have the appearance of a canon-adjacent character.

But it really wasn't that hard. I just needed to figure out the best way to approach it, and that was going from a HU foundation. HU is a great system because it allows you to make pretty much any kind of character.

Now I've got an undead vampire that works under established Palladium rules, without all the Rifts stuff of being a secondary vampire and all that entails. There are very clear rules already written about how much blood or Bio-E or PPE the HU vampire needs to survive, etc. None of it has to be estimated. The weaknesses are all clearly written, as are the strengths, regen per melee, all of it.

It's actually quite convenient, more than I anticipated.

Also, it's not really canon-adjacent. If I take the 1d10 loss to PB and don't bother with Shadow Bolt, it's 100% by the book. I'm actually nerfing myself on purpose by not taking the Rifts Conversion Book bonuses, which would grant a HU psionic character all physical psionics plus 3 more supers, above and beyond what they get during HU creation. I don't want all that because it dilutes the character concept. But just taking the level 1 power selection of a master psionic from HU gives me everything I'd need/have as a roughly 200 year old vampire in WoD.

The martial art taken from N&S is something I wanted to do because A) I love N&S, and B) it feels more authentic for a character with an east Asian origin (WoD has its own martial art system for the Kuei-jin, but it's inferior to N&S, far less detailed).

So I'm not doing all of this explicitly to be a rules lawyer. I actually like the stuff I'm putting in this character build. It just so happens to be 98% legal, too, which I consider an added bonus.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

I do have a few questions, though.

One: when you double chi in N&S, wouldn't that also apply to ISP in Rifts? Since the two are considered interchangeable? So, if I have Qi Gong (skill from N&S) which doubles chi, plus the automatic doubling of chi I get from Snake Style Kung Fu at level 1, plus the Rifts conversion that also doubles ISP, and I rolled up 118 for my ISP before doubling, wouldn't it be 944 when all is said and done?

Note that I'm not saying I'll do this. I just find it funny.

Second question (this is more serious): the HU undead's regen rate is listed as 2d6 HP and 2d6 SDC per melee. When you become a Mega-Hero and convert to Rifts, you add your HP to your SDC and that's your MDC on Rifts Earth. So my question is, does the MDC recovery rate go up to 4d6 per melee then? I feel like it should since the total MDC is derived from both HP/SDC.

[Curbludgeon]

I might incorporate the "Martial Arts Powers as Specialized Psionic Abilities" guidelines from Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised pg 52. A starting Master Psychic can exchange powers for a number of Maneuvers.

[slade the sniper]

Hmmm, I would have just made the character in WoD, 5 points in a stat per dot, 20% of a skil per dot, and whatever doesn't convert directly, just roll random from the Palladium books.

There is a lot of Palladium stuff to min max if you want it, but really, if you already have a character concept, it feels better to just fill in the blanks that try to roll or justify everything with a book. Plus, it's Palladium, so handwavium goes a long way.

-STS

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

Hmmm, I would have just made the character in WoD, 5 points in a stat per dot, 20% of a skil per dot, and whatever doesn't convert directly, just roll random from the Palladium books.

There are some disciplines from WoD that are better reflected by Palladium magic, rather than psionics. But a surprisingly large number can be covered by just psionics alone. Auspex, for example, is extremely easy to convert into Palladium; just take the similar sensitive psionic powers, boom, done. Potence isn't even necessary to convert into a specific Palladium power, since having supernatural PS does the same thing. Celerity could be recreated with any number of HU powers or magic spells. Fortitude is basically covered by becoming an MDC creature and the undead rules from HU. Etc.

There is a lot of Palladium stuff to min max if you want it, but really, if you already have a character concept, it feels better to just fill in the blanks that try to roll or justify everything with a book. Plus, it's Palladium, so handwavium goes a long way.
-STS

Honestly, I found the idea of making up crap to be far more daunting than sticking to the rules. Maybe that says something about my lack of imagination, but I don't really care. I like the structure of working within known concepts of what's balanced and what's not.

Ultimately this will be a character that has some physical ability, but is foremost a mental powerhouse. In broad conceptual terms, it's exactly the same kind of character in WoD. But now it fits in Palladium rules, not really breaking anything along the way.

[Fenris2020]

The Wampyr from Nightspawn is pretty good for this sort of thing. However, I'd give them some magic abilities.

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

I might incorporate the "Martial Arts Powers as Specialized Psionic Abilities" guidelines from Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised pg 52. A starting Master Psychic can exchange powers for a number of Maneuvers.

Yeah, that could work too. But I like taking Snake Style because it's a Yin-based form, and the character is Yin-focused. As I advance I'll get a few more choices from the Arts of Invisibility, which will be enough to round out the character with less important abilities that I didn't take at first level. For instance, the first dot of Blood Shintai from WoD allows you to squeeze into tight areas and compress your body to an unnatural degree; incidentally, Inton Jutsu from N&S does almost the same (not quite as powerful, but close enough).

If I were making a conventional WoD vampire (not a Kuei-jin), then I wouldn't bother with the martial art form at all. I'd just convert any pertinent abilities directly from any source (HU, N&S, etc), as needed.

The Wampyr from Nightspawn is pretty good for this sort of thing. However, I'd give them some magic abilities.

You mean the RCC from the Nightbane core book? Not a bad idea to use it as a base stat block. But the progression and starting abilities won't work as-is. It also takes far less blood to sustain the Wampyr (1 pint blood every 3 days versus 8 per day for a 'real' vampire, including the HU undead mega hero), which I would find a little too lenient.

My goal is to recreate the Keui-jin transition from needing blood to survive (maybe from levels 1-5 or something), to just requiring bio-energy (5-10), to finally needing only chi at levels 11+.

[Warshield73]

I like the Wampyr but truthfully I prefer the vampires as monsters instead of the sexy vampire thing. If you want a vampire like character in Heroes unlimited book Villains Unlimited pg.173 is Nightwalker and the minions of the dark which might be an interesting starting point for vampire characters.

Another way I have gone is with characters who suffered 1 or 2 of the 3 bites required for a slow kill and then the vamp performing the slow kill was killed or forced to flee. I gave them a few sensing abilities, enhanced there minor or major psionics, and then gave them some penalties in sunlight and minor allergy to garlic and such. On top of this you get some interesting psychological issues to add to the character.

Still interesting concepts

[MyDumpStatIsMA]

If you want a vampire like character in Heroes unlimited book Villains Unlimited pg.173 is Nightwalker and the minions of the dark which might be an interesting starting point for vampire characters.

Unfortunately I don't own that book, but it sounds good for a different kind of WoD concept.

I like the Wampyr but truthfully I prefer the vampires as monsters instead of the sexy vampire thing.

What I like about the Kuei-jin specifically is that it follows a dharmic path, which could definitely (quite easily) be broken down into an alternate moral code like regular Palladium alignments. The dharmic path is quite rigid and demands a certain kind of roleplay; and what it boils down to mechanically, is that if you don't roleplay, you don't gain levels along the path (and the associated benefits).

So the Kuei-jin, because of its 'code', is neither a mindless monster nor a sexy Twilight vamp. It has a purpose to fulfill in a cosmic pseudo-religious sense. The particular path I'm drawn to is the Song of the Shadow, which focuses on learning and interacting with the spirit world. There are plenty of opportunities for both in Rifts Earth.

I would want to play such a character as essentially a D-Bee who has an unfortunate need to drink blood, but otherwise isn't hellbent on world domination or enslaving humans. Note that this doesn't mean the character would belong to any of the good, or even unprincipled, alignments either. It's just not explicitly evil. Unlike the Wampyr, Heroic Vampire or Deluded Vampires, this one wouldn't care one way or the other about vampires; it wouldn't be ashamed of what it was.

In strictly Palladium terms, you could think of this character concept as a mix of the Rogue Scholar and the Mystic.

[Zer0 Kay]

Find an old copy of Palladium Fantasy. It had a adventure that had a vampire family called the Gerseidi. They were not the vampire intelligence vampires but the cursed vampires. The original PB vampires weren't vampire intelligence vampires that didn't happen u til Rifts came out.

[Incriptus]

The Rifter 49 also has some alternate views on vampires that might inspire.