Three Galaxies/Phase World: Exo suits?

[keir451]

Aside from Naruni Wave 2 are there any examples of exo suits akin to the Norther Gun Gladius or CA-6EX anywhere in the Three Galaxies or Phase world? I could have sworn there was a CAF exo suit somewhere or was that just a Mandela affect?

[Grazzik]

Aside from Naruni Wave 2 are there any examples of exo suits akin to the Norther Gun Gladius or CA-6EX anywhere in the Three Galaxies or Phase world? I could have sworn there was a CAF exo suit somewhere or was that just a Mandela affect?

There are CAF armors in DB2, but they aren't exo-suits.

DB3 pg 13 - In'Valian exo-suits, members of CCW so this may be what you remember

DB5 pg 61 - Lurgess exo-suit, Golgan Republik

DB6 pg 115 - Heavy Draygon Hide has servos given its weight, but no bonuses

[taalismn]

Pretty much use an existing Earth or Naruni suit and rebrand it as a Galactic product, or come up with your own design.

[keir451]

Thankee, sor! Yeah that's what we're doing in the end. I just wasn't sure if I was missing something or not.

[ShadowLogan]

Aside from Naruni Wave 2 are there any examples of exo suits akin to the Norther Gun Gladius or CA-6EX anywhere in the Three Galaxies or Phase world? I could have sworn there was a CAF exo suit somewhere or was that just a Mandela affect?

There are CAF armors in DB2, but they aren't exo-suits.

DB3 pg 13 - In'Valian exo-suits, members of CCW so this may be what you remember

DB5 pg 61 - Lurgess exo-suit, Golgan Republik

DB6 pg 115 - Heavy Draygon Hide has servos given its weight, but no bonuses

Looks right, Exo-suits are pretty rare even factoring in Rifts Earth books:
-Japan has x2
-Triax has x1 (IINM, Underseas)
-Naruni has x1 (mentioned)
-the Coalition has x1 (mentioned)
-Ugakwas from Mindwerks (pg50-2) come with an exo-skeleton, theoretically they could be encountered in PW in a variety of ways (they are dimensional travelers), though its a lower body 1/2 suit similar in function to the Servo-Harness. There might be additional D-Bees out there who have similar tech use (none come to mind)
-x2 Servo Harness to augment the upper body (x1 Russia, x1 Naruni) if you include them (IIRC Juicer Uprising might have additional gear that might fit into the "partial suit" aspect of the Servo Harness
-the battery powered Chipwell Suits (in Mercenaries) might also qualify, then there are nuclear powered "light" power armor that might also blur the line to

And for comparison there are >128 EBA suits, >137 Power Armor suits, >58 non-EBA suits in the megaverse (licensed properties included) by my count of my incomplete library (so the numbers can really only go up, the numbers are also via a Database)

[Warshield73]

With just 7 books describing dozens of galactic level powers, and a few inter-galactic, there just isn't that much equipment in the 3G period. The easiest way to get what you need is to just find it in another setting, modify it for the faction in question and then use it. The other problem is that PW has not received any kind of update in the last 30 years so while its equipment is still pretty good compared to Rifts Earth powers like the CS and Triax have caught up significantly.

[Marcethus]

With just 7 books describing dozens of galactic level powers, and a few inter-galactic, there just isn't that much equipment in the 3G period. The easiest way to get what you need is to just find it in another setting, modify it for the faction in question and then use it. The other problem is that PW has not received any kind of update in the last 30 years so while its equipment is still pretty good compared to Rifts Earth powers like the CS and Triax have caught up significantly.

The books do specifically state that 3g tech has stagnated and it is very much a possibility that the CS and Triax could catch up to them. Though I wholeheartedly think that we need more PW books it is my second favorite setting.

[Warshield73]

With just 7 books describing dozens of galactic level powers, and a few inter-galactic, there just isn't that much equipment in the 3G period. The easiest way to get what you need is to just find it in another setting, modify it for the faction in question and then use it. The other problem is that PW has not received any kind of update in the last 30 years so while its equipment is still pretty good compared to Rifts Earth powers like the CS and Triax have caught up significantly.

The books do specifically state that 3g tech has stagnated and it is very much a possibility that the CS and Triax could catch up to them. Though I wholeheartedly think that we need more PW books it is my second favorite setting.

It does, however is says this is due to them not having to fight for their very survival the way powers on Rfits earth are and that those powers could catch up in some categories of technology. That isn't really what I am referencing though. I was pointing out that we see a general power creep in Rifts over the decades, beginning really with Source Book 1 and continuing to today, but with so few PW books and so little equipment they can't keep up. If you look at starships, the only equipment we get regularly, they are doing a major power creep, but since we don't have new energy rifles and armor they haven't had a chance to move up in power as well.

[Marcethus]

With just 7 books describing dozens of galactic level powers, and a few inter-galactic, there just isn't that much equipment in the 3G period. The easiest way to get what you need is to just find it in another setting, modify it for the faction in question and then use it. The other problem is that PW has not received any kind of update in the last 30 years so while its equipment is still pretty good compared to Rifts Earth powers like the CS and Triax have caught up significantly.

The books do specifically state that 3g tech has stagnated and it is very much a possibility that the CS and Triax could catch up to them. Though I wholeheartedly think that we need more PW books it is my second favorite setting.

It does, however is says this is due to them not having to fight for their very survival the way powers on Rfits earth are and that those powers could catch up in some categories of technology. That isn't really what I am referencing though. I was pointing out that we see a general power creep in Rifts over the decades, beginning really with Source Book 1 and continuing to today, but with so few PW books and so little equipment they can't keep up. If you look at starships, the only equipment we get regularly, they are doing a major power creep, but since we don't have new energy rifles and armor they haven't had a chance to move up in power as well.

This is very true. And a minor annoyance as well.

[ShadowLogan]

With just 7 books describing dozens of galactic level powers, and a few inter-galactic, there just isn't that much equipment in the 3G period. The easiest way to get what you need is to just find it in another setting, modify it for the faction in question and then use it. The other problem is that PW has not received any kind of update in the last 30 years so while its equipment is still pretty good compared to Rifts Earth powers like the CS and Triax have caught up significantly.

It's similar though in the Rifts WB/SB series though. And what I mean is that how many factions (political, economic, racial) get revisits even there?

Now don't get me wrong there are factions that get plenty of representation (Coaltion, Northern Gun, Splugorth/Kittani, Triax, maybe Archie-3), but for the most part numerous other factions exist* that really haven't been expanded upon since creation and could also use it (given the "creep" in NA major players the secondary players likely have also been forced to "upgrade"). Plus factor in that some D-Bees in the series could also use some expansion in terms of their limited equipment that's already been presented (and these could also double for PW "planet of" books, you've got the Vernulians, Faerie Bots, Amaki, Archons, Naut'yll, etc)

I'd even say there are some unique races I can think of in PW that likely also require equipment optimized for them (Zebuloids, Monro (sp?), and a giant spider race in a later book I forget the name of ((Edit: Nixie))). Then there are factions like the Necrol or Invaders (maybe even the Star Hive) that could also use an expansion given the "role" they appear to be cast in, plus factor in races like these two that use unique tech that could also be expanded upon (T'Zee for example) and that is another avenue that could be explored.

Off hand I'm not sure I'd say PW is stunted in terms of what was in those 7 Books (and I don't have them all). Rifts proper has what over 50 supporting WB/SBs, but if we limit it to the first 7 WBs (WB1-7) or randomly pick 7 WBs (and/or SB) it might be on par with each other. I think PW just seems so small in no part because of the scope of the setting and the lack of material as compared to Rifts Earth proper.

*Factions that come to mind in spoiler, and by no means a complete list

Spoiler:

In North America there is:
Colorado Baronies
Lazlo(s)
Federation of Magic
Psycape
Tundra Rangers
Xitic (sp?, assuming they can innovate they belong here)
Vampire Kingdoms (okay they got a revised WB and expansion SB, so maybe not so much)

World at large:
Horune Pirates
Pheonix Empire
MIndwerks
Russian Warlords
China
Megaversal Legion
the Lizardman Nation in SA(1)
the Silver Republics (New Babyon is home/allied to dimensional travelers)
Naut'yll
Arhkons in SA(2)
Columbia in SA(1)
Japan's power blocks

D-Bees:
Vernulians might be the most represented (minor) D-Bee race in terms of equipment in the books (and its mostly cliff note version), limited to NA but initially presented (IMHO) as a potential invader

EDIT: Here are some counts of "items" (equipment, creatures, skills, powers, etc) I have in a Database, and I'm pretty sure some stuff wasn't counted in some books or is counted in another book (like the BoM).

Spoiler:

Rifts MB/UE 555/808 (remember this is a core book with lots of skills and spell/powers, hence why it looks inflated)
SB1o/r 68/79
SB2: 38
SB3: 95
SB4: 79
Mercenaries SB: 105
MercOps SB: 343
Shemarrian Nation SB: 41
Bionics SB: 497 (this is basically a compilation book)
Mutants in Orbit SB: 136
WB1o: 38 (I don't have revised)
WB2: 148
WB3: 143
WB4: 84
WB5: 167
WB6: 101
WB7: 246
WB8: 308
WB9: 135
WB10: 65
WB11: 118
WB12: 121
WB13: 47
WB14: 191
WB16o: 193
WB17: 147
WB20: 106
WB21: 155
WB22: 52
WB23: 27
WB26: 204
WB30: 106

DB2: 169
DB3: 94
DB5: 24
DB6: 121
DB8: 107
DB13: 116

Rifts BoM: 1,601
Rifts CB1r: 106

EDIT2: I cross checked results with another sub-table that handles reprints to avoid duplicate entries and edited the results with this in mind. But again, it is possible that some items in a given book might be missed for one reason or another. There might also be entries for tiny "nuggets" that are presented in "non-item" ways but could have been done as "item".

[taalismn]

The 'Giant Spiders' I believe are the StarKIllers. Aside from the mention and stats in the Minion War, the only other thing they've gotten so far is mention in the Rifter about Kaiju/giant monsters, where they're shown to be seeding giant flesh-eating spiders throughout space.

[ShadowLogan]

EDIT: back on topic a bit, but would the DB5's Sinestrian "waldos" count toward exo-suit? (pg42-3)

The 'Giant Spiders' I believe are the StarKIllers. Aside from the mention and stats in the Minion War, the only other thing they've gotten so far is mention in the Rifter about Kaiju/giant monsters, where they're shown to be seeding giant flesh-eating spiders throughout space.

Nixie pg90 DB6: Three Galaxies. They are spiders that stand 3-7ft tall and 4-9ft long, giant compared to real-world spiders all things considered (not compared to humans).

[taalismn]

I stand(or rather sit) corrected! Thank you!
Now to do something with them.

[ShadowLogan]

I stand(or rather sit) corrected! Thank you!
Now to do something with them.

Not a problem. I think they are one of those races that don't have actual art associated with their entry so it's easy to miss. They also have an interesting approach to star ship construction (which makes me think they might do something similar with other vehicles) that is rather "unique" to the setting AFAIK.

[Warshield73]

I stand(or rather sit) corrected! Thank you!
Now to do something with them.

Not a problem. I think they are one of those races that don't have actual art associated with their entry so it's easy to miss. They also have an interesting approach to star ship construction (which makes me think they might do something similar with other vehicles) that is rather "unique" to the setting AFAIK.

This is one of the really good opportunities in the books to create things that are truly unique but still use all the existing technology. They use the shells of giant insects to build ships, how does that work? How do you repair it. Is it a regular core of a ship wrapped around with giant insect plates for armor or is it truly a giant shell with everything built inside? Does this work for fighters? How about tanks? does it really save money since it is harder to mass produce?

Seriously I want to know some someone should start working on it

With just 7 books describing dozens of galactic level powers, and a few inter-galactic, there just isn't that much equipment in the 3G period. The easiest way to get what you need is to just find it in another setting, modify it for the faction in question and then use it. The other problem is that PW has not received any kind of update in the last 30 years so while its equipment is still pretty good compared to Rifts Earth powers like the CS and Triax have caught up significantly.

It's similar though in the Rifts WB/SB series though. And what I mean is that how many factions (political, economic, racial) get revisits even there?

Now don't get me wrong there are factions that get plenty of representation (Coaltion, Northern Gun, Splugorth/Kittani, Triax, maybe Archie-3), but for the most part numerous other factions exist* that really haven't been expanded upon since creation and could also use it (given the "creep" in NA major players the secondary players likely have also been forced to "upgrade").

This is absolutely true, however those players are all small time. Columbia was already behind the CS in military tech and with such a small industrial base it is easy to imagine them falling behind even further. There is also a plethora of just standard tech in the various books that these places might be able to make themselves as well as import from North America or Europe. It also makes total sense that these places might open limited trade with Triax or some group might start shipping Northern Gun equipment to them. It makes less sense for the Consortium armed forces to be buying the laster Triax power armor.

Plus factor in that some D-Bees in the series could also use some expansion in terms of their limited equipment that's already been presented (and these could also double for PW "planet of" books, you've got the Vernulians, Faerie Bots, Amaki, Archons, Naut'yll, etc)

Vernulians and Amaki are two groups that I honestly thought some freelancer would have done something with by now. Even just a Rifter article on their equipment and home worlds but yes these groups need it as much as the Three Galaxies do, its just not as important to the setting. The three galaxies is a major part of Rifts and those two are footnotes in two world books.

I'd even say there are some unique races I can think of in PW that likely also require equipment optimized for them (Zebuloids, Monro (sp?), and a giant spider race in a later book I forget the name of ((Edit: Nixie))). Then there are factions like the Necrol or Invaders (maybe even the Star Hive) that could also use an expansion given the "role" they appear to be cast in, plus factor in races like these two that use unique tech that could also be expanded upon (T'Zee for example) and that is another avenue that could be explored.

Yes. To all of this but this just adds to the lack of PW equipment not mitigating it in any way.

Just as an aside, can you imagine how nasty a single seat Zebuloid fighter would be? I mean all the stuff you can tack on and it can just move through it while focusing on flying with just half its brain.

Off hand I'm not sure I'd say PW is stunted in terms of what was in those 7 Books (and I don't have them all). Rifts proper has what over 50 supporting WB/SBs, but if we limit it to the first 7 WBs (WB1-7) or randomly pick 7 WBs (and/or SB) it might be on par with each other. I think PW just seems so small in no part because of the scope of the setting and the lack of material as compared to Rifts Earth proper.

I would argue that when you play Phase World it feels massive. All these places and peoples it's huge but it is shallow. There is no depth. Descriptions of star systems and planets are minimal and species are even worse. While I focus on equipment here, what we really need are true world or "star system" books that really flesh out some places for adventure to give GMs something to start from.

Now to be clear, lesser powers in the 3G can be given almost any earth gear (OCCs as well) to flesh them out. I had a planet near the border of TGE and FWC space that hadn't been conquered yet and there gear was a mix of NG and Iron Heart Armaments. For the Central Alliance in the anvil galaxy book I gave them anything for borgs from North AMerica to Russia. The lesser powers can mostly be filled in with stuff from Rifts without too much problem, it's really the CCW, TGE and UWW that need the work but some high-tech adeventure gear/vehicles would be nice too.

[ShadowLogan]

would argue that when you play Phase World it feels massive. All these places and peoples it's huge but it is shallow. There is no depth. Descriptions of star systems and planets are minimal and species are even worse. While I focus on equipment here, what we really need are true world or "star system" books that really flesh out some places for adventure to give GMs something to start from.

If you looked at the 2nd Spoiler that I added as an edit to this post, I did go through and count items (creatures, classes, various equipment, powers, etc) with game mechanical values (no NPCs, though unique gear would have made it in), and on the whole the PW books that I have access to are not to different from WB/SBs I have for Rifts Earth (granted 1x exception it was one of the lowest on the combined list) at least with the typical WB/SB (which do include a few large count outliers). So while I certainly would agree the setting is "shallow", the books to date are not atypical, IMHO, in terms of game mechanical "items".

And yes Phase World could benefit from a series of books that flesh out star systems or individual planets.

[Warshield73]

would argue that when you play Phase World it feels massive. All these places and peoples it's huge but it is shallow. There is no depth. Descriptions of star systems and planets are minimal and species are even worse. While I focus on equipment here, what we really need are true world or "star system" books that really flesh out some places for adventure to give GMs something to start from.

If you looked at the 2nd Spoiler that I added as an edit to this post, I did go through and count items (creatures, classes, various equipment, powers, etc) with game mechanical values (no NPCs, though unique gear would have made it in), and on the whole the PW books that I have access to are not to different from WB/SBs I have for Rifts Earth (granted 1x exception it was one of the lowest on the combined list) at least with the typical WB/SB (which do include a few large count outliers). So while I certainly would agree the setting is "shallow", the books to date are not atypical, IMHO, in terms of game mechanical "items".

To be clear I read those and your stats seemed good, I only snipped them because the lists were so long it was hard to enter my post. The thing is that the amount of gear is kind of misleading. Look at minor powers like Columbia. A nation of just 2 million but we have 7 hand weapons (including a type completely unique to them), 2 power armors (1 is actually listed as an exo suite reference the OP), 2 robot vehicles 1 armored vehicle and a helicopter plus the monster borg. this minor power, mentioned in only one book, is more developed in terms of tech than most powers in the 3G and comes close to the CCW itself. It has details on size of military, economics and several cities. This is true all over rifts Earth, just look at Tarnow in the Mindwerks SB. Again it has national statistcis, a few cities described, several weapons and vehicles and if you called them a minor power in Europe you would be over stating it.

A constant complaint you hear on these boards pretty much since they first were created was how some of the great cities of North America are not described. We have no Chitown, Lazlo or New Lazlo books and we didn't get Tolkien until it was being destroyed. The 3G is worse than that. Often large nations are created without a single planet described (beyond a simple blurb) no cities named, no OCCs (whoich might be a good thing???) and definitely no equipment.

I understand there are powers on Rifts earth that could use some minor updates to account for the advancing timeline, but 3G groups never even got the basics. Really what we need from future PW books is to develop the setting. Yes more ships, especially small ships for PCs and pirate NPCs, but we need planets, cities, corporations, political/military NPCs, secret societies, legends of lost worlds, and especially updates to the OCCs and species to align with RUE. At this point some of the smallest, most irrelevant powers on Rifts Earth are better developed than even the great powers of the 3G.

And yes Phase World could benefit from a series of books that flesh out star systems or individual planets.

[Shorty Lickens]

As so much adventuring occurs in space or inhospitable environments, power armor is more useful than exoskeletons or exosuits, which is why theres more of one and less of the other. Power armor with propulsion is more useful still.
Basically the same reason EBA is more popular than plate mail.
Though species who've naturally or artificially adapted to the vacuum of space would likely prefer plate mail. Ditto individuals with super powers.

[Warshield73]

As so much adventuring occurs in space or inhospitable environments, power armor is more useful than exoskeletons or exosuits, which is why theres more of one and less of the other. Power armor with propulsion is more useful still.
Basically the same reason EBA is more popular than plate mail.
Though species who've naturally or artificially adapted to the vacuum of space would likely prefer plate mail. Ditto individuals with super powers.

No. EBA has environmental systems, that's the "E", and plate doesn't. Both PA and Exo would have that as well as many other systems so the comparison isn't so much apples to oranges more apples to orange peels.

Exo skeletons are smaller allowing explorers to use them inside other craft like fighters, shuttles and hover/CG ground vehicles. Also if you are in a hostile environment in your power armor you are stuck in that PA and that is not great if you want to explore ancient ruins or go into contained environments like an outpost or research station.

My original Phase World group started the day after DB3 was delivered to my door and one of the first things those players did was upgrade CAF armor with triax style exo frames. It just makes sense for a setting like this.