Convince Me

[Chuck Lang]

Let me first clarify that this post is in no way an attack on Palladium Fantasy or the GMs and players who choose to use this system.

Now that that is said, on to the actual subject of this thread.

O.k. I have made many modifications to the Palladium system. I mainly GM [/i]Rifts[/i] and have a few Nightbane books, but have yet to GM Nightbane.

I am one of those gamers who loves to play several systems just to "toss things up a bit."

But one thing I am not convinced with is having a reason to purchase Palladium Fantasy books when I have many of the D&D and enjoy that system as equally as I do Palladium's.

Therefore, is there any reason I should play Palladium Fantasy over D&D? What benefits are there as a player? What benefits are there as a GM? Is Palladium Fantasy easily adapted to any campaign setting? What are your reasons for playing/GMing Palladium Fantasy? How pertinent are the supplements? Will I have to buy all of the books to run a well-versed game?

Anyway, as the title says, convince me; I sincerely want to know and look forward to your reasoning and advice.

Oh yeah, please keep it light, I don't want this to turn into a D20 vs. Palladium rant and rave thread; I can't stand and detest those arguments. An objective presentation of the Palladium Fantasy side is what I desire.

[churchoftin]

palladium books are less expensive (sinse they are not hard bound) and It is obvious that there is a lot of hard work and love that goes into the game. I, personally, find it to be the best and most maluable fantasy game.

[Chuck Lang]

palladium books are less expensive (sinse they are not hard bound) and It is obvious that there is a lot of hard work and love that goes into the game. I, personally, find it to be the best and most maluable fantasy game.

O.k., except for the price. I already have nearly all of the D&D books so the problem of them being more expensive is not an issue.

Thanks though.

[Veknironth]

Well, I suppose it has been about 3 months since this topic came up.

-Vek
"You guys knew I would make a snide comment."

[MADMANMIKE]

..I didn't catch it the first time so I'll put mine in..

..The setting in my opinion is well worth it. The world is richly detailed.

..Likewise, instead of being weak at first level and becoming much more powerful at later levels, the characters are pretty decent at first level. Granted, the acquisition of treasure and equipment is always a factor, but skill wise you do pretty good at the start, whereas in DnD you have to pick and choose your abilities at the begining and many of them (feats) require either other feats or simply level progression to acquire. Cool, but different.

..Of course, the revised first edition was my first game, so I'm biased. But, thus far I haven't been exposed to a published setting for DnD. Palladium's is in the main book and every book after. The way they do their system is much more user friendly as I see it.

..I'm also a completionist, so having all the books whether I like them or not is one of my things.

-Mike <8]

[Chuck Lang]

..I'm also a completionist, so having all the books whether I like them or not is one of my things.

-Mike <8]

Yeah I have this problem too; soon I shall have the complete set of Rifts books. Mmmm... complete.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

Well, if you already play Nightbane and Rifts you are familiar with how the systems differ. So I will not go over that.

I find that what has been detailed of PF is as rich as any D&D info.

For me it comes down to the removal of Ranged combat as the cornerstone. I find PB's ranged combat is not to crash hot, the Bow and its skills (archery, Targeting) are neater than Rifts (and others).

Frankly if you already play PB games you should already be halfway to PF.

I am with Madmanmike, I like 1st ed more than 2nd.

[Chuck Lang]

Well, if you already play Nightbane and Rifts you are familiar with how the systems differ. So I will not go over that.

I was curious about that (if Palladium Fantasy uses pretty much the same system as everything else); I merely assumed this before, so hearing it from someone who plays it helps.

I find that what has been detailed of PF is as rich as any D&D info.

How well does PF translate to other campaign settings? I suppose if there isn't an O.C.C. that fits into the setting I could just make up one that does, eh?

For me it comes down to the removal of Ranged combat as the cornerstone. I find PB's ranged combat is not to crash hot, the Bow and its skills (archery, Targeting) are neater than Rifts (and others).

Not quite sure what you mean here. Care to clarify?

Thanks!

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

I find that what has been detailed of PF is as rich as any D&D info.

How well does PF translate to other campaign settings? I suppose if there isn't an O.C.C. that fits into the setting I could just make up one that does, eh?

PF is in some ways like D&D in that the core classes are general in nature, the main Men at arms are Merc, Soldier, Knight, Palladin (A knight who moves around and is not in service to one place so no Priestly stuff), Theif, Assassin (evil guys), Ranger. with some secondary classes like, scolar, noble, merchant, squire (not to far off a proper MaA class). Magic classes are Wizard (slightly more general LLW), warlock (Elemental), witch, Diabolist, Summoner and Priest. The Priest, Warlock and witch get most of their power from Elemental forces, gods or evil beings (respectively) while Diabolists and summonsers are not your usual spell casters and require more thought and playing.
and then comes the Psion classes...
As you can see, with some background and skill tweeking you can set up any style of fantasy you want.

And this is just the main book, the later books have, Pirate, tumbler, acrobat, bard, illutionist, Monk, gladiator and the list goes on.

For me it comes down to the removal of Ranged combat as the cornerstone. I find PB's ranged combat is not to crash hot, the Bow and its skills (archery, Targeting) are neater than Rifts (and others).

Not quite sure what you mean here. Care to clarify?

OK, I was comparing Rifts to PF because you play Rifts so I have a base to work from. The MDC system, was started in Robotech (that I know of) and worked well as it was an SDC world with MDC giant robots and only Giant robots had MDC weapons. Over time MDC became hand held and showed that the ranged combat system was not scalable for Human and robot sized objects. Solutions (bandaids) to the problem can be found in the -10 rule. For me I would Make WP: Modern go up by 1 every 2 levels so that modrn and anchient WPs where on some par.
This problem does not come up in PF. Bows do not use the same WP rules as modern weapons.(the -10 rule does make a showing under the Ranger OCC and it is incomplete, my advice is to ignore that it is for dodging and apply it to parrying of arrows and spears only.)
So combat wise it is just straight up HtH, nice and simple.

and add the WP: Unarmed and use the WP: short sword table. (is short sword in 2nd ed?)

Further to what Freefall said, I too like the race descriptions, it list common allies and enemies of each race and in each description supports this. Like Orcs have a low ME (2d6) and so often have an Ogre as a leader, but yo can clearly have an exceptional ME MA combo and have an Orc leading Orcs. It's not human centric, while elves, dwarves and humans (the Monster races) may be friends Dwarvs and elves have the usual animosity. If playing in the Oldkingdom you be an orc or Ogre or troll against the monster elves, or play a wolfen if you where in the norther wilderness. go to other places and be prepared for prejudice and outright hostility as you encounter local politics (the Wolfen and eastern teritory are on the brink of war where their lands abut)

It all lends it self to role playing, which is supported in the way the OCCs are structured (compared to D&D 3.x).

The original PF (1st ed) was good and playtested and thought out, the flavour text made a good transition to 2nd ed (except ogres lost psionics and gained 2ft in height ) and in cases was polished even more.

Hope I did not over do that.

[Vidynn]

Therefore, is there any reason I should play Palladium Fantasy over D&D? What benefits are there as a player? What benefits are there as a GM? Is Palladium Fantasy easily adapted to any campaign setting? What are your reasons for playing/GMing Palladium Fantasy? How pertinent are the supplements? Will I have to buy all of the books to run a well-versed game?

uhm, I dont want to convince you (you seem to have set your mind already more or less anyway). I just want to add that Palladium has one of the best and most interesting backgrounds. it is not a generic background and it is not supposed to be. if you want to play PF it works best with the PF-background. dont adapt.

I personally GM PF because I like the setting a lot - its not very consistent, it has some mad ideas, but 90% of the ideas in it are just great. I wouldnt play PF (or any Palladium-game) for the system as such, cause it has loads of holes in it (and isnt well written in my humble opinion).

I do believe that you would need all the books to make a really good campaign. if you give it for less, the rulesbook, D&G, M&A and a few more would do (depending on where you want to play...basically the choice is between the west, east, south or north)...Library of Bletherad and High Seas are good choices for nearly every setting and make a nice addendum.

cheers, V

[Omote]

Well as Mindwyr already plays both systems, the only thing I could add is that the Palladium Rules system is perfect IMO for fantasy gaming. With D&D 3.X there are "fairly" complex rules that cover nearly all situations. With Palladium, while you don't get rules to cover everysituation, you don't need such rules. The System is playtested turoughly and there really are no gaps to cover. The spells work in the situation you cast them (generally), and the system is more "realistic," byt that I mean a combination of things you can do in 15 seconds, rhater then certain "actions."

The combat system is where PF shines IMO. You can really feel the flow of actions with parries, and dodges and then power strikes. Cinematic and more exciting then the alternative. I used to complane that PF combat took too long when compared to D&D, now PF is shorter and more straight forward. The attacking and defending for Palladium is not some ambiguous thing with a bunch of numbers that signify certain things. With PF you get action that doesn't stop!

.................................Omote

[MADMANMIKE]

..I should clarify that I'm not more fond of 1st ed than 2nd ed, but it was the first RPG I ever played. I like them both equally, although I have pretty much played 2E exclusively over 1E since it came out.

..Still, the adventures I ran in 1E are very memorable, despite my lack of talent as a GM back then....

-Mike >8]

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

..I should clarify that I'm not more fond of 1st ed than 2nd ed, but it was the first RPG I ever played. I like them both equally, although I have pretty much played 2E exclusively over 1E since it came out.

-Mike >8]

Sorry, looking back I am in error when I said "like you I prefer 1st ed" or words to that effect.

to clarify, 1st ed had class combat tables, with HtH non men of arms for magic users as an option. they also had spell combat tables. it made each of the classes less generic than the class and HtH set up they have in rifts (2nd ed) and made each class that little bit different in more than just OCC skills. Some people here still use that style of combat tables over the 2nd ed HtH, basic expert and MA. it is a very good reference for the evolution of the system.

[Chuck Lang]

Being familiar with the difference between Palladium and D&D in general in this case, I think, might not give you a good idea of the differences between PF and D&D (maybe it does; if so, I apologize for wasting your time with the following paragraph).

No way man, your post was very informative and has definitely opened my eyes to several of the difference and benefits of PF. Thanks!

I liked what they did with orcs especially. Orcs in the main book are basically a minority treated in a way comparable to what a lot of minorities went through in the early history of the U.S.A. They tend to be slaves in the larger human cities, and have no recognized rights. They are dull-witted and brutish, but not outright evil. It also mentions that they are very affectionate towards their families, and that an orc would be willing to face even a dragon to protect their child.

I must say, this is freekin' awesome. Talk about an original idea. I like the political and moral contradictions that might arise from this.

One last thing. I kind of like a lot of the adventures better than a lot of the D&D adventures I've read. In PF they don't seem to go on the assumption that all the PC characters are basically good or mostly human (or elf or dwarf of the like) in composition. I personally like that. They still drop hints in places like "good characters should probably try to rescue the princess", but to me it seemed like some of the D&D modules contained phrases more like "they should try to rescue the princess, they're supposed to be heroes after all."

To tell you the truth, the last time I ran a pre made adventure was 14 years ago; the adventures during those 14 years were all homemade. But it is nevertheless good information to know that I can rely on adequate adventures when my imagination fails me.

If you have any other questions or want me to clarify something, feel free to ask. That was all I could think of (and the best I could express it) off the top of my head.

Thanks man, most enlightening.

[Chuck Lang]

It all lends it self to role playing, which is supported in the way the OCCs are structured (compared to D&D 3.x).

Most excellent, yet it is still reliant on the players. But good writing and flavor text are definitely a bonus and help with the inception of new ideas.

The original PF (1st ed) was good and playtested and thought out, the flavour text made a good transition to 2nd ed (except ogres lost psionics and gained 2ft in height ) and in cases was polished even more.

As I said above. I worry a bit about the organization of the book; I feel that the Rifts book is lacking in that area, which is why I completely rewrote the book (for my own uses of course).

Hope I did not over do that.

Not at all man; I welcome the comment and keep getting closer and closer to purchasing the core book.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

the layout is normal, Stats, skills, combat, OCCs (armed, other, magic, psionic), spells and then the world info.

Another thing is that the main book is huge, they shifted some stuff out when going to 2nd ed but shipped more stuff in.

to help with what kind of game you want.
Book 2 is the Timiro Kingdom in some detail. there are still huge holes in each town or city so filling them in with your own work is easy, you get the genral map, rules for travel, maps all of the cities and most of the towns and forts on the map. there is plenty of flavour text to get the feel of the different places and some interesting highlights. you get some cool adventures, including "The Place of Magic" in the Old Kingdom mountains. a magnet for adventurers, magic users, the curious and foolhardy alike. A good value book for stock old fationed middleages stuff.

Book 3: the high seas. if you want boat, sea monster, the legenday isle of the cyclops, the hidden island of Lumaria, the Pirate infested Flornry Ilsand and the norther trade and industy power of the Kingdom of Byzantium. also has an interesting adventure in the back

Book 4: Norther wilderness. One of my favourites. fair detail of wolfen tribes and culture and cool adventures. a merging of the 1st ed Book 4 and Further adventures in the Nothern wilderness.

Eastern teritories abut the wolfen empire and there is some serious problems comming, like a posible "wolfen war". Its a human dominated land (like Timiro) but it is made up of many smaller kingdoms and holdings.

Western empire, have never done more than a quick flick through this book.

Mount Nimro/ Nimrod. the book that deals with giants. as mentioned earlier, the just about any race can be played, and giants are no exception. they can make cool allies, enemies or even special campains for giants only.

Baarlgore wastelands. "This is an epic adventure sourcebook detailing the notorious Baalgor Wastelands -- Eandroth tribes, Gromek war-bands, monstrous raiders, forgotten catacombs, pirates, Minotaurs and much more."

Library of bletherad (sp) nore worl and magic flavour. up the top of many PB magic fans list of books to get.

Land of the damned. only flicked through this but it is an ugly dangerous place of all the filth trapped after great and cataclismic wars of eons past. nice place for some sight seeing.

Northern hinterland. between The wolfen and the LotD, magic and weidness, at a guess.

Yin-Sloth jungles, as far as I know, still 1st ed but from what I here has the usual amout of flavour. some good bits about the origins of some races.

Island at the edge of the world.
An adventure book, or rather a campaign book because this thing can end up being huge if you realy want to. still only 1st ed but it details the hidden/lost magic of psionic chrystals. the psion version of Rune magic. the stuff is realy cool. this may also the origin of the cyber knights psi-sword concept. aimed at the moster races(human, elf and dwarf) it's layed out as a bit of an indiana jones type aventure, but as I said, there is alot of scope of adding your own sub plots and side plots and unreatyed stuff to make this a massive campaign. and the fate of the world is in our hands.what more could you want? OK, for it to be 2nd ed.

[MADMANMIKE]

..I'm also a completionist, so having all the books whether I like them or not is one of my things.

-Mike <8]

Yeah I have this problem too; soon I shall have the complete set of Rifts books. Mmmm... complete.

..Yeah? How'd you like the GM screens?

-Mike >8]

[Chuck Lang]

..I'm also a completionist, so having all the books whether I like them or not is one of my things.

-Mike <8]

Yeah I have this problem too; soon I shall have the complete set of Rifts books. Mmmm... complete.

..Yeah? How'd you like the GM screens?

-Mike >8]

*cough* o.k... so I lied (unintentionally, I might add). I don't have the GM screen; I intentionally left that item off of my "Palladium-to-purchase list".

I have my own screen in the works anyway (since I reconstructed the entire RMB and added my own tables).

Which reminds me (thanks Mike), the local copy store is running a 79 cent color copy special; time to get that project printed off.

Edited: Didn't italicize Palladium in the original post (sorry I'm anal, retentive, that is).

[MADMANMIKE]

..That's alright. From the fact it took nearly five years to sell out the initial print run, I don't think very many people were impressed with my work.

-Mike >8]

[Chuck Lang]

..That's alright. From the fact it took nearly five years to sell out the initial print run, I don't think very many people were impressed with my work.

-Mike >8]

I did order it, but that was about half a year ago which was before I started rewriting the book. When I ordered it, none of the distributors that the local hobby store went through had any copies in stock.

Is there an electronic copy of it now? I actually have never seen one bit of it, including the artwork (if there was any).

[MADMANMIKE]

..No, they said they wanted to reprint it, but I think they are waiting for me to submit a revised edition. Which I started, but haven't really worked on much.

-Mike <8]

[Chuck Lang]

Sorry about resurrecting an old thread, but, after long deliberation, I think I have pretty much decided to pick up Palladium Fantasy. If anything, I can use it to for various characters to use in my Rifts campaign.

Thanks for all the posts guys; they definitely helped with making up my mind.

[highpriestrsw2]

I don't mean to complain but I really am sick of seeing these types of posts on every board that I've ever been on (and as a mod on a buddy's site I always erase them) I don't think it is our duty as the gaming community to convince anyone of anything...be it playing a certain system or having to constantly defend our hobby from others who see it either as "evil" or "stupid" or "childish". I think people should be a little more open minded and try things instead of needing constant coaxing from other people. I would never have played palladium rpgs if a friend of mine hadn't asked me to participate in a session of rifts one weekend and I was openminded enough to give it a try. Go out and look up some reviews on the net...email the game company and see where there are demos going on near you...look for a used copyin a game store if you're afraid of paying full price and being disapointed....look over a copy in your FLGS and ask him/her questions about the game/system...look for groups near you that will run you a one-off game and see if you like it....but please...please...I beg of you...stop making posts like this...go out and experience things for your self...take a chance....you might be suprised...you just might learn something new....and you just might...ENJOY YOURSELF!

[Chuck Lang]

Go out and look up some reviews on the net...email the game company and see where there are demos going on near you...look for a used copyin a game store if you're afraid of paying full price and being disapointed....look over a copy in your FLGS and ask him/her questions about the game/system...look for groups near you that will run you a one-off game and see if you like it....but please...please...I beg of you...stop making posts like this...go out and experience things for your self...take a chance....you might be suprised...you just might learn something new....and you just might...ENJOY YOURSELF!

I have done the research and played the game. I have perused a copy of the game already (I work at the LGS). I have an open mind which is why I play so many games and I have learned something new (see the above posts). From the posts here I have decided to "take a chance" and purchase the game.

My next step after doing my own research and playing Palladium games for 10 years was to come here.

I felt that these boards were the perfect place to find out what all of you think (people who play the game, who are well-versed in the rules, and talk about the game nearly every day--a far better resource than reviews written by people who might not even play the game).

I asked people to “convince me”--perhaps a poor choice of a title in your opinion apparently, but nonetheless it is what I asked for. Message boards such as this one are excellent resources for questions such as the one I presented in this thread.

And up until your post this thread has been civil, informative, and understanding.

So I’d like to thank all of you who have honestly contributed to this thread with helpful information and aided me in making my decision.

[Colonel Wolfe]

Wizards of the Coast screwed Gary Gygax.

Gary Writes 3.5 modules now, most of his old Crew is in to 3.x (Gary and Rob Kunts are doin a 3.5 version of the origonal Grey hawk universe renamed "Castle Zagagy" Grey hawk is tied up a the base D&D world until they update it to make Ebberon the base world.

Don't play D&D 'cause they screwed Gary Gygax.

Gary was screwed over by TSR actually. When is partner died, his wife sued and won the company and tried to run it in to the ground, All of garys work on Grey Hawk was considred TSR property and She and her goons tried to Destroy Grey Hawk in favor of Un-Forgotten Realms... the most explored game setting ever.

I wish Gary Gygax could come for Palladium.

He's doing his own stuff now, mostly D20, some Troll Lord games Products. ect.

Without Gary Gygax there'd be nothing! NOTHING!

Gary did alot, but most of D&D is owned to Dave Arneson.... Gary was the old GM, but Dave did alot of the system work.

Really once they screwed Gary I picked up Palladium--I first picked up that Eygiptian game by Gary--but he was hurting so bad from the rat-bastard's betrayal that he didn't make a good game. I've found Palladium to be better at everything from mechanics to packaging to supplementaion.

I picked up Palladium in 92, before WOTC existed as a mainline RPG co. TSR had Run the D&D producust in the Ground. D&D Crochet comes to mind as one of the "Better" products TSR made in the 80's"...

TSR Screwed over Gygax, Weis and Hickman with Dragonlance and the majority of its Writers at one time or another. Blame TSR, not WOTC... WoTC saved D&D when it was nearly dead.(Which Saved Dragonlance and returned it to Margret Weis to make new novels and game books)

I Play Palladium mostly for the Settings, Which have gotten better over Time, even thou the System has grown weak and in need of revision.

Beyond the Origonals LOTR & Greyhawk (IMO), Palladium produces Top Quality Setting Information... thou some need a bit more work in places(Rifts) The Fantasy is a Strong Setting where Evil is not alwasy Black and White, and Villans are not always Vile.... sometimes Just greedy. And The True Evil in the Wolrd is kept asleep by the Comboned might of "good" and "Evil"... for if they awaken the wolrd no longer exisits.
I have felt some of Palladiums work feels Rushed... or not well Tested... (Robotech & soem Rifts stuff in particular, but over All PFRPG is a solid Setting where you can be just about anything from a Kind hearted-Begger to a Deamon Slayer, who is just as Vile as the Deamons he hunts.

[Colonel Wolfe]

I stand corrected. No harm-no-foul WoC. Screw you TSR.

we all said "Screw TSR" right before they Filed Chapter 11

All props out to Dave Anderson--unsung hero of a gaming revolution.

Still the episode of Chainmail where they fought it out in a abandoned castle sewer system that lead to the idea for Dungeons & Dragons the first--that was Gary right?

A little bit of all of it... Dave was the big Minitures guy... but he found Garys Chain mail Rules to be to Cluncky for a Fast paced RPG.

BtW, do you have any inside poop on Santa Claus--I think he's pretty cool, too

the word on the street... but post 9/11 he got Shut down buy the Homeland Security people... Possible Drug Trafficing Charges too... ya know them toys cost Quite a bit... and the elves got a union with the teamsters... now he has to pay them.

[Marcethus]

BtW, do you have any inside poop on Santa Claus--I think he's pretty cool, too Big Grin

the word on the street... but post 9/11 he got Shut down buy the Homeland Security people... Possible Drug Trafficing Charges too... ya know them toys cost Quite a bit... and the elves got a union with the teamsters... now he has to pay them

ROFLMAO

[Ridley]

For me, D&D is not a fun game to GM. I GMed one session and said never agian. For two reasons....

1.All the players( I wasn't playing with my usuall group) just wanted to kill stuff, spend their money, and do chicks. They were disapointed of the fact that the adventure i made had no dungeon crawling. They ignored the plot twists and the interesting NPC's, like the bronze dragon that liked rock music( Don't Ask)

2. Magic and the system in general buged me. You can't throw anything fun or chalengeing at a group of 1st levels without them dying.

The players also ignored the adventure and just did what they wanted, thats when the flaming metor cow of death came out...

[Library Ogre]

For me, D&D is not a fun game to GM. I GMed one session and said never agian. For two reasons....

1.All the players( I wasn't playing with my usuall group) just wanted to kill stuff, spend their money, and do chicks. They were disapointed of the fact that the adventure i made had no dungeon crawling. They ignored the plot twists and the interesting NPC's, like the bronze dragon that liked rock music( Don't Ask)

2. Magic and the system in general buged me. You can't throw anything fun or chalengeing at a group of 1st levels without them dying.

The players also ignored the adventure and just did what they wanted, thats when the flaming metor cow of death came out...

To be fair, that sounds like a personel, not materiel, issue... and I say that as a not-fan of D&D. Those guys would've been nimrods no matter what game you played... or, alternatively, they were looking for a beer and pretzels game, and you happened to have a brie and chardonay game (or at least, you know, a good beer and fresh pretzels game)

[Marrowlight]

You can't throw anything fun or chalengeing at a group of 1st levels without them dying.

The players also ignored the adventure and just did what they wanted, thats when the flaming metor cow of death came out...

in the right situation a half blind naked goblin with a limp can be fun and challenging - just have to find the way to do so.

[The Beast]

Three reasons why I prefer Palladium to D&D:

1 = No level limits to species other than human, and restrictions to character class are done only if there is a legitimate reason (ie: dragons can't be CS grunts, because the CS kills dragons, & dwarves from the Palladium world refuse to learn magic because of what their ancestors did during the war). D&D (from when I last played) had such restrictions.

2 = I get to attempt to block, avoid, or reduce damage in Palladium, whereas in D&D I can only rely on my THAC0. I've lost many characters because of THAC0, and only lost one in all of the Palladium ames I've played.

3 = I prefer Palladium's magic system much more than D&D's, especially with the PPE Channeling rules. I never liked the fact that mages would forget their spells when they use them. It's stupid.

[Library Ogre]

Three reasons why I prefer Palladium to D&D:

1 = No level limits to species other than human, and restrictions to character class are done only if there is a legitimate reason (ie: dragons can't be CS grunts, because the CS kills dragons, & dwarves from the Palladium world refuse to learn magic because of what their ancestors did during the war). D&D (from when I last played) had such restrictions.

2 = I get to attempt to block, avoid, or reduce damage in Palladium, whereas in D&D I can only rely on my THAC0. I've lost many characters because of THAC0, and only lost one in all of the Palladium ames I've played.

3 = I prefer Palladium's magic system much more than D&D's, especially with the PPE Channeling rules. I never liked the fact that mages would forget their spells when they use them. It's stupid.

Number 1 has been addressed in the new edition of D&D; I don't like the solution, particularly (anyone can be any class, and you can switch between classes like you were an indecisive freshman), and can advance to any level.

Number 2 is still around; there are alternate rules to address this, but they're not that great. The simplest is to no longer consider your AC to be base 10, but rather base d20... roll well, and you've protected yourself better. Roll poorly, and you've left yourself open. I don't think Palladium's rules are that fantastic in regards to armor, either, incidentally... at least D&D armor makes you overall harder to hit, thereby reducing the damage you suffer over the long term... but the rules are there.

Number 3 still hasn't really been resolved. There are alternate classes which do not forget their spells (the new bards and the sorcerer), but they have an extremely limited spell selection... instead of memorizing your spells for a day, you're picking them for the next 4 levels or so.

[Sentinel]

I myself like the diversity of characters, the diversity of monsters, and the fact that they are already constructed to be suitable for the Palladium system, which removes the time needed for lengthy conversion work.
I prefer the Palladium Sytem over D&D by far. The easy tie-ins to other games, which also means elements from other settings (like Mystic China, or Heroes Unlimited, or Nightbane) can easily be added to PFRPG.

[sinestus]

you guys are forgetting the most important reasons

1. ninja
2. ninja
3. ninja


only Palladium Fantasy and Rifts can combine well with Ninjas and Superspies to provide incridible kung-fu wielding ninja to heedlessly butcher every race JRR Tolkeen ever held dear...

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

Three reasons why I prefer Palladium to D&D:

1 = No level limits to species other than human, and restrictions to character class are done only if there is a legitimate reason (ie: dragons can't be CS grunts, because the CS kills dragons, & dwarves from the Palladium world refuse to learn magic because of what their ancestors did during the war). D&D (from when I last played) had such restrictions.

2 = I get to attempt to block, avoid, or reduce damage in Palladium, whereas in D&D I can only rely on my THAC0. I've lost many characters because of THAC0, and only lost one in all of the Palladium ames I've played.

3 = I prefer Palladium's magic system much more than D&D's, especially with the PPE Channeling rules. I never liked the fact that mages would forget their spells when they use them. It's stupid.

Number 1 has been addressed in the new edition of D&D; I don't like the solution, particularly (anyone can be any class, and you can switch between classes like you were an indecisive freshman), and can advance to any level.

Number 2 is still around; there are alternate rules to address this, but they're not that great. The simplest is to no longer consider your AC to be base 10, but rather base d20... roll well, and you've protected yourself better. Roll poorly, and you've left yourself open. I don't think Palladium's rules are that fantastic in regards to armor, either, incidentally... at least D&D armor makes you overall harder to hit, thereby reducing the damage you suffer over the long term... but the rules are there.

Number 3 still hasn't really been resolved. There are alternate classes which do not forget their spells (the new bards and the sorcerer), but they have an extremely limited spell selection... instead of memorizing your spells for a day, you're picking them for the next 4 levels or so.

2: I am not a big fan of how D&D handles Armour, it's overly cinematic/vague. but a Nexx says, instead of taking 10 roll a d20. Conan does give you parry and dodge defencive abilities as a variation and Spycraft uses Damage reduction meaning you may get hit more often but the fits to less. this is an over simplification to ilistrate that not all d20 is the same. these games handle other apects of damage to suit the genre they are aiming for.

3: not having a strong familiarity with D&D magic, i had always considdered that it was not a matter of memorising a spell to cast but rather part casting the spell and using triggering the final incantation when needed. thus the mage must rest and "reload" the spell into him "magazine". and some classes have the ability to redirect this "part spell" into another lesser level spell.

[Library Ogre]

3: not having a strong familiarity with D&D magic, i had always considdered that it was not a matter of memorising a spell to cast but rather part casting the spell and using triggering the final incantation when needed. thus the mage must rest and "reload" the spell into him "magazine". and some classes have the ability to redirect this "part spell" into another lesser level spell.

That's the 3rd edition explanation for what's essentially the same phenomenon from 2nd and earlier editions. In previous editions, it was explicitly stated (and if you read the game company fiction, part of the world design... read the Dragonlance Chronicles, for example) that wizards had to memorize their spells, magically imprinting them on their minds. When they cast the spell, it was gone, and they had to memorize two copies to cast it twice.

3rd edition changes this to preparation... you begin casting the spell, getting most of the work of it done, and leaving the last bit uncast. Mechanically, they're identical, except that preparation takes less time... 1 hour per day, no matter what level you are, whereas memorization could take days at higher levels.

[Library Ogre]

2. yeah, the system of magic in ded sux (memorize spells is the end), but you can manage converting the daily spells to mana points and forgetins the memo thing. In pb, the magic allready in ppe (mana), but you ll find higher lvl spells wich are, in combat situation, weaker than lower ones.

Actually, a conversation I had with Bruce Cordell explained some of this, and why it would be BETTER if Palladium, with the PPE system, used fixed damages for all spells, instead of damages scaling with level.

In a points-based system, it comes down to cost-benefit, and it is very easy to min-max costs. Compare Fire Bolt and Fire Ball. Range is approximately equivalent (100ft +5 per level vs. 90ft), and they're both about as likely to hit each. Fire Bolt does a flat 5D6, while Fire Ball does 1D6 per level. Bolt is 7 PPE, Ball is 10 PPE. Up until level 6, why would you EVER cast Fire Ball, if you know both of them? After level 6, why ever cast Fire Bolt, except in the few cases where its extra range is handy, or you're incredibly short on PPE?

In the D&D system, with spells per day, you can only use a 1st level slot for a 1st level or lower spell.. you can't use it for a more powerful spell, so spells that scale with level don't matter. In a points-based system, the value of scaling spells varies so widely that they can be useless... or too useful for their cost.

3. as some users of the forum said to me, classes in palladium arent all ballanced, a thing wich occurs in ded, but in a lower grade.

D&D, for all its talk of balance, isn't really. It's idea of balance has always been dynamic unbalance... certain classes start out weak, but gain in power until they dominate (or, as the song "Always the First to Die" put it, "You might suck at level one
But you'll rip at level nine")