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SHARKEY0818 wrote:Are these considered a kinectic attack or an energy attack?......also how does impervious to energy effect them as well as being who are inpervious to fire ?

it says quite plainly that when the fireing pin is depressed the matter turns into plasma energy, thus it is an energy attack and both impervious to energy as well as impervious to fire prevent damage

plasma isn't fire.

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:plasma isn't fire.

no, but all damage comes from heat, and sinse impervious to fire says it also protects aginst heat as well as fire. . .

but that is why super fuel flame won't increase the damage

now, any random fires it may set off from the intense heat on the other hand. . .

The problem I have with the Plasma cartridges is taht they have all of the disadvanatages (weight, bulk, need to load magazines, resupply additional rounds, cost, and according to some people regarding plasma weapons, recoil or noise) of kinetic ammo with none of the advantages (fewer things resistant to kinetic attacks than energy attacks).

Even worse, to put it another way, they have none of the advantages that e-clip fed weapons have (rechargability, able to connect to PA power supply, weight, etc.)

Now, on the other hand I think that TK weapons are AWESOME. They have all of the advantages of kinetic rounds and energy weapons. OTOH their obivous disadvantage is the need for psionics or magic (and the inability to link to a PA power supply), and I have noted their relatively poor damage.

tsh77769

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:plasma isn't fire.

no, but all damage comes from heat, and sinse impervious to fire says it also protects aginst heat as well as fire. . .

That's not entirely true. Plasma has the unique feature in that all the molecules in its makeup travel in a single uniform direction. This is unlike mater in any of its other three states where the molecules are going every-which-way even if there is a uniform direction for the overall mass it's in. Consequently, a high velocity stream of plasma should not only bathe its target in a gas that's few million degrees in temperature, but it should also hit with the force of a rampaging Mack truck! In essence, plasma as a weapon should be a double whammy.

Because of that, when it comes to the "Impervious to Energy" spell, the only fair thing to do is have directed plasma attacks do half damage.

Dead Boy wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:plasma isn't fire.

no, but all damage comes from heat, and sinse impervious to fire says it also protects aginst heat as well as fire. . .

That's not entirely true. Plasma has the unique feature in that all the molecules in its makeup travel in a single uniform direction. This is unlike mater in any of its other three states where the molecules are going every-which-way even if there is a uniform direction for the overall mass it's in. Consequently, a high velocity stream of plasma should not only bathe its target in a gas that's few million degrees in temperature, but it should also hit with the force of a rampaging Mack truck! In essence, plasma as a weapon should be a double whammy.

Because of that, when it comes to the "Impervious to Energy" spell, the only fair thing to do is have directed plasma attacks do half damage.

then why in palladium does any monster that says in that just about anything that has half to immune to no damage from fire also say "this includes mega damage heat and plasma, and magic fires (most of the time here)"

Is the plasma from Palladium actually supposed to be the 4th state of matter? It never technically states that, it may be firing that stuff that's in blood .
I never try to get to hooked up on the physics of it all, half because I'm not a physicist and half because none of the rules really follow physics.

The biggest advantage to Naruni Plasma Cartidged, IIRC, is that they have the highest MD:credit ratio in the game.

The biggest advantage is that they look awesome, and they are intimidating as all get out. Try looking down the barrel of something that's big enough to be launching mini missles. Try not to wet your pants while you do it.

Technically, an actual plasma weapon would cause kinetic AND energy damage. Some of the damage would be kinetic due to a measurable mass of particles impacting the target, and energy due to the highly energetic nature of the "soup" impacting the target.

So, half damage from Naruni plasma weapons for persons immune to energy. Normal Rifts Earth plasma weapons...I'd say they are not true plasma weapons, since turning energy into actual plasma would be hideously expensive, and rediculously overhot...

SHARKEY0818 wrote:Are these considered a kinectic attack or an energy attack?......also how does impervious to energy effect them as well as being who are inpervious to fire ?

Plasma is technically matter, but it is considered energy for the purposes of spells and powers that resist it.

Borast wrote:Technically, an actual plasma weapon would cause kinetic AND energy damage. Some of the damage would be kinetic due to a measurable mass of particles impacting the target, and energy due to the highly energetic nature of the "soup" impacting the target.

So, half damage from Naruni plasma weapons for persons immune to energy. Normal Rifts Earth plasma weapons...I'd say they are not true plasma weapons, since turning energy into actual plasma would be hideously expensive, and rediculously overhot...

the problem with that theroy is, while it may be matter, it's not going at the speeds needed to do MD or too much SDC for that matter, so it's quite irrelavnet.

z0b wrote:Is the plasma from Palladium actually supposed to be the 4th state of matter? It never technically states that, it may be firing that stuff that's in blood .

Depends on what kind of plasma weapon you're talking about. If we're talking about Plasma Warheads on all the various missiles and grenades, then the answer is NO. That would be some kind of highly compressed (maybe liquid) super-napalm that ruptures, sprays, and ignites all in the same motion.
If we're talking about the directed small arms like the NG-E12 or C-27, then the answer has to be YES. With those weapons the the weapon has no 'gas tank' of any kind, and the plama is produced with nothing more than an e-clip, which means that the weapon must be drawing in the surrounding air (or water), convet it into plasma and expell it with an EM pulse of some kind. The same would be true of those used by PA or bots, them being listed with a virtually unlimited payload, like the Super Sam and Mark VII Slayer.

and the plama is produced with nothing more than an e-clip, which means that the weapon must be drawing in the surrounding air (or water),

Which is probably why you almost never seen any plasma guns on spacecraft

..My people! Get your geek on! I love this psuedo-science techno-babble!

-Mike >8]

Esckey wrote:

and the plama is produced with nothing more than an e-clip, which means that the weapon must be drawing in the surrounding air (or water),

Which is probably why you almost never seen any plasma guns on spacecraft

Actually, that's one of the reasons why I balked at the CAF Silver Eagle power armor in Phase World. It's a space-based power armor that uses, among other things, plasma projectors as its primary weapon. With an unlimited payload at that!

MADMANMIKE wrote:..My people! Get your geek on! I love this psuedo-science techno-babble!

-Mike >8]

You do know I hold three PhD's in psuedo-science, rubber science, and sci-fi crap-science.

SHARKEY0818 wrote:Are these considered a kinectic attack or an energy attack?......also how does impervious to energy effect them as well as being who are inpervious to fire ?

Heat/fire which is covered under Impervious to Energy.

Hey Wolfie, could you explain your view further ? page reference etc. And as far as i can remember from physics class, heat is just the rapid movement of molecules, the hotter things are the faster the molecules are moving, so should'nt plasma weapons have a kinetic damage component ? and should this apply to particle weapons ?

Rimmer wrote:Hey Wolfie, could you explain your view further ? page reference etc. And as far as i can remember from physics class, heat is just the rapid movement of molecules, the hotter things are the faster the molecules are moving, so should'nt plasma weapons have a kinetic damage component ? and should this apply to particle weapons ?

It would have the kinetic damage of your average water balloon. It's basically just a superheated glob of goo.

Just remembered that APS Plasma describes itself as superheated gas, so maybe no kinetic impact.

Please no fart jokes everybody

Hey Doom and Malignor, whats your take on Particle weapons then ?

Rimmer wrote:Hey Doom and Malignor, whats your take on Particle weapons then ?

Never really considered them any different the laser or ion beam weapons. Just bigger and firing single blasts. I blame Gargoyles.

But Ghostbusters works too.

WolfieDaMutant wrote:Well the plasma cartridge for any NE series weapon fires a chemical charge of super heated plasma about 10,000 degrees at speed of sound so yes impact and fire. Enough for you guys there? the NE series weapons are my specialty and using a TW D-Clip on a NE-4 it holds 4050 rounds. Adds a selector switch for single shot, tri-burst and full auto you got a weapon that could tear up just about anything in the Rifts universe. But don't try firing off the whole clip since the barrel will overheat and all 4050 rounds explode in your hand, doing a great deal of damage 1d4 x10 x4050. Ouchy in a 3 ft area. So please be careful and dont hurt yourselfs.

If your using a TW D-clip, and the rounds somehow started to explode from heat transfer....wouldn't like 99% of the damage be contained inside the other dimension that was the clip?? Just curious.

NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol fires a 9 mm casless

Thought it was specifically stated that it had a 2inch bore?

Rimmer wrote:Hey Doom and Malignor, whats your take on Particle weapons then ?

Not that you asked me but my opinion on PBW comes from Gundam the translated novel not the anime. The Particles are accelerated in a chamber. A laser fires nanoseconds before the particle beam to create an ionized corridor for the particles and also clear the path of as much random particulate matter as possible. The beam is release from the accelerator at near light speeds. The beam is not completely cohesive though from deflecting of said particulate matter or simply drifting from the charged corridor. This creates a slower traveling periphery. Game terms even a near miss will cause damage w/i 5 of required roll causing 1/4 damage. However if something is capable of deflecting the laser before the particle beam reaches it target (unlikely) the remaining particle beam will loose cohesiveness rapidly causing a drastic drop in damage and range. In Gundam the PBWs messed up shields with near misses ripping micro holes in them and causing them to be structurally unsound.

For all their bulk and expense and suchlike, plasma cartridges have one _humungous_ advantage. The weapons that fire them are the simplest, easy to repair MDC firearms in all of Rifts. Seriously. Mechanically they're no more complicated than a 20th century firearm, it's just they happen to be built with materials capable of withstanding the spontaneous conversion of a plasma cartridge from matter to superheated gas.

And this means they've got another advantage: cheap weaponry. Ignore the absolutely bloody LUDICROUS prices for Naruni Cartridge Weapons listed in the book, they're clearly messed up. A weapon that simple, with no particularly complex components (all the hard work is done inside the cartridges), and manufacturing requirements that any Rifts Earth nation capable of making it's own plasma qeapons can match, means that it's gonna be _ridiculously_ easy to knock of naruni cartridge weapons. So if you want to apply some common sense, one would assume that Naruni sells cartridge weapons as cheaply as possible to kill off any potential profit margin for imitations and knock-offs, and makes the majority of it's profits from the sale of ammunition instead.



Rallan

MattLing wrote:Lasers are red, long bolts like in Star Wars. Sometimes they are green.

Ion blasters shoot teardrop-shaped blue bolts.

Plasma weapons shoot orangey red balls

Particle beams fire a long straight shot of blue with yellow balls inside.

And don't forget they always make noise even in space.

Esckey wrote:

NE-4 Plasma Cartridge Pistol fires a 9 mm casless

Thought it was specifically stated that it had a 2inch bore?

In his defence he did just make all that up.

Phalanx wrote:Because Palladium science has always been fuzzy at best?

*ding ding ding* We have a winner.

Beatleguise wrote:Impervious to Energy is only partial protection vs Plasma. Sais it right in the description.

Huh? Where? Page number and book title please.

z0b wrote:

Beatleguise wrote:Impervious to Energy is only partial protection vs Plasma. Sais it right in the description.

Huh? Where? Page number and book title please.

Rifts Lemuria Page 95198491561

Dr. Doom III wrote:

z0b wrote:

Beatleguise wrote:Impervious to Energy is only partial protection vs Plasma. Sais it right in the description.

Huh? Where? Page number and book title please.

Rifts Lemuria Page 95198491561

I thought it was in Australia 2

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SHARKEY0818 wrote:Are these considered a kinectic attack or an energy attack?......also how does impervious to energy effect them as well as being who are inpervious to fire ?

it says quite plainly that when the fireing pin is depressed the matter turns into plasma energy, thus it is an energy attack and both impervious to energy as well as impervious to fire prevent damage

Actually, while Impervious to Energy would work, Impervious to Fire shouldn't, since plasma is not simply heat and light. Being the fourth state of matter, it is a "soup" of ionised particles and free electrons at extreme temperatures, and a high energy state that also produces some broad spectrum radiation. It also has a kinetic component since it is actually impacting you.

Borast wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SHARKEY0818 wrote:Are these considered a kinectic attack or an energy attack?......also how does impervious to energy effect them as well as being who are inpervious to fire ?

it says quite plainly that when the fireing pin is depressed the matter turns into plasma energy, thus it is an energy attack and both impervious to energy as well as impervious to fire prevent damage

Actually, while Impervious to Energy would work, Impervious to Fire shouldn't, since plasma is not simply heat and light. Being the fourth state of matter, it is a "soup" of ionised particles and free electrons at extreme temperatures, and a high energy state that also produces some broad spectrum radiation. It also has a kinetic component since it is actually impacting you.

it's more often refered to as impervious to fire and HEAT.

ALL fire is is heat.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Borast wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

SHARKEY0818 wrote:Are these considered a kinectic attack or an energy attack?......also how does impervious to energy effect them as well as being who are inpervious to fire ?

it says quite plainly that when the fireing pin is depressed the matter turns into plasma energy, thus it is an energy attack and both impervious to energy as well as impervious to fire prevent damage

Actually, while Impervious to Energy would work, Impervious to Fire shouldn't, since plasma is not simply heat and light. Being the fourth state of matter, it is a "soup" of ionised particles and free electrons at extreme temperatures, and a high energy state that also produces some broad spectrum radiation. It also has a kinetic component since it is actually impacting you.

it's more often refered to as impervious to fire and HEAT.

ALL fire is is heat.

No it's not. If it was just heat then all you'd see is heat waves. There are other elements to it. Now if you said all the damage caused by fire is heat I couldn't argue. Oh did you mean High Explosive Anti Tank or heat?

Zer0 Kay wrote:Oh did you mean High Explosive Anti Tank or heat?

I was immune to Heat once...but the bastard started firing HESH at me!