Combat bonuses and -10 dodge for Robotech
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 8:54 pm
I KNOW this issue has been discussed several times, in several ways, by several of you, and everyone has an opinion or an interpretation. I believe this is the exact reason why I am confused.
I want to have my own opinion/interpretation on this to apply it to my games, so I think the best way is asking to players/GMs of the game. (since it is difficult to ask Mr. K directly, and may be he is tired of the same old questions anyway). That is way I am posting this here, and I really appreciate any comments any of you has about this issue (and thank you for your patience while reading this).
I want to GM a Robotech campaign, and I have all the books (including the five Macross II, Sentinels, etc). I also have the main Rifts book, GM Guide and a few world books (just to use them for reference and additional info). So my main source for Palladium system and rules is Robotech.
The issue is Combat Bonuses for Mecha/Robot/PA fights, specially when weapon systems (ranged weapons) are used (cannons, turrets, lasers, etc).
A. The rules (in all main sourcebooks) clearly state that ALL bonuses from pilot's HTH training and Mecha combat training are added. If pilot has +1 to parry from HTH basic and +1 to parry from Mecha combat, that pilot fighting in his mecha has +2 to parry.
B. Several Palladium books show character's stats calculated this way. They have a "Combat Bonuses" section, and a "Robot/Mecha/PA Combat Bonuses". Sometimes the Robot section states "in addition to normal combat bonuses" and such, and sometimes it is clearly evident that all bonuses have been added.
One question is:
- Does this apply for ALL types of combat while the pilot is on his mecha (actual physical combat, say a mecha punch AND ranged combat, such a firing a laser or turret)
- or just for physical HTH mecha combat (punches, kicks, etc).
My options are:
1. All bonuses are added for ALL types of combat.
2. All bonuses are added ONLY for physical HTH mecha combat.
For ranged attacks using the mecha's weapon system (or defending from them, such as dodging an autocannon from another mecha), only the mecha HTH training bonuses and some skill (like Weapon System skill) or special bonuses (special weapon or targeting system) are used.
3. All bonuses are added for ALL types of combat EXCEPT for "to strike" bonuses.
- For physical HTH mecha combat: pilot HTH "to strike" bonus + mecha combat HTH "to strike" bonus (+ PP "to strike" bonus at GM discretion)
- For weapon systems: mecha combat HTH "to strike" bonus + Weapon System skill "to strike" bonus + special system "to strike" bonus.
This last option is the one I prefer, for several reasons:
- If the mecha has to dodge (or parry, or roll), it is the pilot's agility and combat knowledge PLUS his mecha combat knowledge that will be used to evade an attack (physical or from a gun, in fighter mode or battloid mode).
- When the mecha is going to strike, it is not the same to use a physical attack or a weapon system. For a punch, the pilot uses his personal combat skill bonuses AND his mecha combat knowledge bonuses to strike with the mecha's fist. For a laser turret, he uses his mecha combat knowledge bonuses and special skill or system bonuses only.
I am following the same idea used in personal (NON MECHA) combat. The pilot uses his personal combat skill bonuses for a punch (with his own fist), but uses his WP skill bonuses for a machine gun.
- In Robotech: RPG Book Eight STRIKE FORCE (written by Wayne Breaux Jr), almost all the NPC presented with a particular line in the "Bonuses in Mecha" section:
"+X to strike, +Y to strike WITH WEAPONS SYSTEMS". This is clearly showing the difference between the 2 types of attacks. (For those with the book, check p.70 to 72).
I have to admit this is the ONLY book I have that has this clearly mentioned. This also means that ALL characters in ALL other books should be adjusted with this difference, work that can become HELL for a GM...
Comments about this?????
Another question is:
What about the *new* rule from Rifts GM Guide (p.41) "Definitive Dodging Rules vs Ranged Attacks", where the dodger of modern weapons has a penalty of -10 to dodge?
I personally dont like the rule, but Mr K. explanation in the book seems logical.
- Does this apply to "Robotech" personal combat (NON MECHA)? (this is not mentioned on any Robotech book, but since Rifts and Robotech use the same system, I wonder..)
- For Robotech, Rifts or any other Palladium game, this ALSO applies to Mecha combat? (I mean, a veritech is ALWAYS dodging enemy gunfire. Big robots also dodge enemy gunfire. This penalty will eliminate all the fun?).
After finding posts related to this, I think a more appropiate question is: Does this -10 to dodge rule even apply to Robotech at all, since it is not mentioned on any of those books?
Comments about this one????
Again, this is not just to start a new flame war or anything. I just would like some input and thoughts from Palladium system users.
Thank you!!!
PS: Should I post this to Palladium Books® Games Q. & A. forum, or leave it here?
I want to have my own opinion/interpretation on this to apply it to my games, so I think the best way is asking to players/GMs of the game. (since it is difficult to ask Mr. K directly, and may be he is tired of the same old questions anyway). That is way I am posting this here, and I really appreciate any comments any of you has about this issue (and thank you for your patience while reading this).
I want to GM a Robotech campaign, and I have all the books (including the five Macross II, Sentinels, etc). I also have the main Rifts book, GM Guide and a few world books (just to use them for reference and additional info). So my main source for Palladium system and rules is Robotech.
The issue is Combat Bonuses for Mecha/Robot/PA fights, specially when weapon systems (ranged weapons) are used (cannons, turrets, lasers, etc).
A. The rules (in all main sourcebooks) clearly state that ALL bonuses from pilot's HTH training and Mecha combat training are added. If pilot has +1 to parry from HTH basic and +1 to parry from Mecha combat, that pilot fighting in his mecha has +2 to parry.
B. Several Palladium books show character's stats calculated this way. They have a "Combat Bonuses" section, and a "Robot/Mecha/PA Combat Bonuses". Sometimes the Robot section states "in addition to normal combat bonuses" and such, and sometimes it is clearly evident that all bonuses have been added.
One question is:
- Does this apply for ALL types of combat while the pilot is on his mecha (actual physical combat, say a mecha punch AND ranged combat, such a firing a laser or turret)
- or just for physical HTH mecha combat (punches, kicks, etc).
My options are:
1. All bonuses are added for ALL types of combat.
2. All bonuses are added ONLY for physical HTH mecha combat.
For ranged attacks using the mecha's weapon system (or defending from them, such as dodging an autocannon from another mecha), only the mecha HTH training bonuses and some skill (like Weapon System skill) or special bonuses (special weapon or targeting system) are used.
3. All bonuses are added for ALL types of combat EXCEPT for "to strike" bonuses.
- For physical HTH mecha combat: pilot HTH "to strike" bonus + mecha combat HTH "to strike" bonus (+ PP "to strike" bonus at GM discretion)
- For weapon systems: mecha combat HTH "to strike" bonus + Weapon System skill "to strike" bonus + special system "to strike" bonus.
This last option is the one I prefer, for several reasons:
- If the mecha has to dodge (or parry, or roll), it is the pilot's agility and combat knowledge PLUS his mecha combat knowledge that will be used to evade an attack (physical or from a gun, in fighter mode or battloid mode).
- When the mecha is going to strike, it is not the same to use a physical attack or a weapon system. For a punch, the pilot uses his personal combat skill bonuses AND his mecha combat knowledge bonuses to strike with the mecha's fist. For a laser turret, he uses his mecha combat knowledge bonuses and special skill or system bonuses only.
I am following the same idea used in personal (NON MECHA) combat. The pilot uses his personal combat skill bonuses for a punch (with his own fist), but uses his WP skill bonuses for a machine gun.
- In Robotech: RPG Book Eight STRIKE FORCE (written by Wayne Breaux Jr), almost all the NPC presented with a particular line in the "Bonuses in Mecha" section:
"+X to strike, +Y to strike WITH WEAPONS SYSTEMS". This is clearly showing the difference between the 2 types of attacks. (For those with the book, check p.70 to 72).
I have to admit this is the ONLY book I have that has this clearly mentioned. This also means that ALL characters in ALL other books should be adjusted with this difference, work that can become HELL for a GM...
Comments about this?????
Another question is:
What about the *new* rule from Rifts GM Guide (p.41) "Definitive Dodging Rules vs Ranged Attacks", where the dodger of modern weapons has a penalty of -10 to dodge?
I personally dont like the rule, but Mr K. explanation in the book seems logical.
- Does this apply to "Robotech" personal combat (NON MECHA)? (this is not mentioned on any Robotech book, but since Rifts and Robotech use the same system, I wonder..)
- For Robotech, Rifts or any other Palladium game, this ALSO applies to Mecha combat? (I mean, a veritech is ALWAYS dodging enemy gunfire. Big robots also dodge enemy gunfire. This penalty will eliminate all the fun?).
After finding posts related to this, I think a more appropiate question is: Does this -10 to dodge rule even apply to Robotech at all, since it is not mentioned on any of those books?
Comments about this one????
Again, this is not just to start a new flame war or anything. I just would like some input and thoughts from Palladium system users.
Thank you!!!
PS: Should I post this to Palladium Books® Games Q. & A. forum, or leave it here?