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And I thought that I had a BrainBender.


I'll read and get back to you on this one........

They are equivalent to a superpowered version of their race, though I do believe they lose all abilities they had prior to being a CK..

though the magic/psi option makes up for that...btw, I love Fallen Knights

gadrin wrote:yeah, they didn't bother with a detailed background of what happens (prolly woulda screwed the page count of the book up if they did all the details).

I'd just go with whatever you come up with.

for me:

if the Forge can change you into something more, it can do the reverse, only it seems some of the "upgrade" is retained.

it's also a good way for a non-magic/psionic RCC to suddenly become a LLW or MM, if you go by the "letter of the law".

Seljuk Fallen Knight Ley Line Walker anyone?

This would have to be about the only legal violation of PB's anti-cross-breeding bias ... You almost become a normal member of your original race. You can breed as well as breathe, so for the most part, the correct answer would seem to be "yes"...

Deus Edge Machina wrote:

gadrin wrote:yeah, they didn't bother with a detailed background of what happens (prolly woulda screwed the page count of the book up if they did all the details).

I'd just go with whatever you come up with.

for me:

if the Forge can change you into something more, it can do the reverse, only it seems some of the "upgrade" is retained.

it's also a good way for a non-magic/psionic RCC to suddenly become a LLW or MM, if you go by the "letter of the law".

Seljuk Fallen Knight Ley Line Walker anyone?

Ludicrous... This is one case where I'd impose one choice or the other on the character... a Seljuk, even as a fallen, is inherently non magical... so they'd get psionics and nothing else.

Borast wrote:This would have to be about the only legal violation of PB's anti-cross-breeding bias ... You almost become a normal member of your original race. You can breed as well as breathe, so for the most part, the correct answer would seem to be "yes"...

What do you mean? no way a Wolfen Fallen is having kittens with a human or Catyr one... they can breed, but only with members of their former race, or compatible ones...

Svartalf wrote:

Deus Edge Machina wrote:

gadrin wrote:yeah, they didn't bother with a detailed background of what happens (prolly woulda screwed the page count of the book up if they did all the details).

I'd just go with whatever you come up with.

for me:

if the Forge can change you into something more, it can do the reverse, only it seems some of the "upgrade" is retained.

it's also a good way for a non-magic/psionic RCC to suddenly become a LLW or MM, if you go by the "letter of the law".

Seljuk Fallen Knight Ley Line Walker anyone?

Ludicrous... This is one case where I'd impose one choice or the other on the character... a Seljuk, even as a fallen, is inherently non magical... so they'd get psionics and nothing else.

But they lost their magical potential in a situation involving the Forges influence...and they are no longer normal seljuk, they are big scaly fallen knights.

I'd allow it..

Yep... they are no longer "normal" Seljuk... but the effects of the Ritual run deeper than that... or they'd have found ways around that long ago...

To boot, even if that's theoretically possible, I'd rule that there is a mental block, and that no Seljuk would even seriously think of taking up magic... the decision would be taking itself at a subconscious level... so psionics it is...

The ONLY exception would be NPCs... like that Seljuk Necromancer from the Omegan Order...

I would have to say the Fallen CK is just a magically altered version of his origional species. Thanks to the influence of the Cosmic Forge, he or she has lost all natural abilities, but still hangs onto the essence of the Forge (hence still being a supernaturally strong, Mega-Damage critter, with an unholy amount of ISP and PPE). Still, I'd say their genetics are the same, allowing them to reproduce with their own species, but since the Forge's effects are magical/supernatural, they aren't passed down to the child.

This makes for an interesting background, being the son/daughter of a Cosmo Knight or a Fallen Knight, but prevents munchkins from squeezing in a little more power. "Cause my daddy was a Fallen Cosmo Knight, my True Atlantean Mystic Knight should get supernatural strength and be MDC!"

It doesn't say you become a new species.

Swift-13 wrote:It doesn't say you become a new species.

in fact, it does.

Svartalf wrote:

Borast wrote:This would have to be about the only legal violation of PB's anti-cross-breeding bias ... You almost become a normal member of your original race. You can breed as well as breathe, so for the most part, the correct answer would seem to be "yes"...

What do you mean? no way a Wolfen Fallen is having kittens with a human or Catyr one... they can breed, but only with members of their former race, or compatible ones...

That's what I said...

Zerebus wrote:Now here's the kicker: can a Fallen Cosmo-Knight mate with another Fallen Cosmo-Knight, and if so, can they be of different originating species?

Nope, Fallen Knight is not a distinct and unified species

Svartalf wrote:

Zerebus wrote:Now here's the kicker: can a Fallen Cosmo-Knight mate with another Fallen Cosmo-Knight, and if so, can they be of different originating species?

Nope, Fallen Knight is not a distinct and unified species

True, to an extent.

You keep your appearance, but you lose all your racial abilities, and generally your racial weaknesses.

Like a seljuks inability to cast magic.

Zerebus wrote:Now here's the kicker: can a Fallen Cosmo-Knight mate with another Fallen Cosmo-Knight, and if so, can they be of different originating species?

Mate, yes.

Have Children, no, unless they're, say, Ogre and Human CK's respectively......

Svartalf wrote:

Deus Edge Machina wrote:

gadrin wrote:yeah, they didn't bother with a detailed background of what happens (prolly woulda screwed the page count of the book up if they did all the details).

I'd just go with whatever you come up with.

for me:

if the Forge can change you into something more, it can do the reverse, only it seems some of the "upgrade" is retained.

it's also a good way for a non-magic/psionic RCC to suddenly become a LLW or MM, if you go by the "letter of the law".

Seljuk Fallen Knight Ley Line Walker anyone?

Ludicrous... This is one case where I'd impose one choice or the other on the character... a Seljuk, even as a fallen, is inherently non magical... so they'd get psionics and nothing else.

Not if you go by the letter of the OCC law...
I've had such a character, REALLY freaked out his own race...

gadrin wrote:Fallen knights are dangerous beings with supernatural strength and endurance, often endowed with magical or psionic powers, and who know a great deal about cosmo-knights and their weaknesses.

so if you started as an average human before you fell, you're not quite the same creature as before.

But you would still be considered human. And only able to breed with humans, ogres, Atlanteans, Amazons, deities, demi-gods, godlings...

Deus Edge Machina wrote:

Svartalf wrote:

Zerebus wrote:Now here's the kicker: can a Fallen Cosmo-Knight mate with another Fallen Cosmo-Knight, and if so, can they be of different originating species?

Nope, Fallen Knight is not a distinct and unified species

True, to an extent.

You keep your appearance, but you lose all your racial abilities, and generally your racial weaknesses.

Like a seljuks inability to cast magic.

In your dreams...

Loss of racial abilities is never mentioned specifically, and if it happens, then I wonder why the Forge just doesn't call only humans and beings with no abilities whatever... why make a zebuloid into a CK if it is not a better CK than a plain vanilla human?

Similarly, while loss of certain racial weaknesses can be assumed, destruction of basic racial traits, like the Seljuk magic handicap cannot, especially when Falling, and part of the Forge power up disappears, leaving the former Knight much closer to its former state.

Fallen Knights share looks, need to eat, drink...

Their stats and abilities are determined by subtracting from the Cosmo Knight...

It doesn't say that races with limitations against using magic cannot use it (like, say, Dwarves from palladium)

Seljuk cannot use magic because they have no P.P.E. and cannot build up any base.

Fallen Cosmo Knights get like, half of 1d6x100

Edges Ghost wrote:Fallen Knights share looks, need to eat, drink...

Their stats and abilities are determined by subtracting from the Cosmo Knight...

It doesn't say that races with limitations against using magic cannot use it (like, say, Dwarves from palladium)

Seljuk cannot use magic because they have no P.P.E. and cannot build up any base.

Fallen Cosmo Knights get like, half of 1d6x100

Agreed with Edges Ghost. Let's put two and two together, shall we???

SPEAKING OF THE SELJUK:

A]]Normal Seljuk, indeed, do NOT have a PPE Base.

B]] COSMO-KNIGHT Seljuk do, however.

C]] FALLEN Cosmo-Knights lose HALF of their P.P.E. The Text, furthermore, SPECIFICALLY states that they lose half of their Base P.P.E., THAT THEY GAINED WHEN BEING CONVERTED TO A COSMO-KNIGHT. Note that the Text states "reduce P.P.E. by half." (Phase World, page 103)

D]] THEREFORE, a Fallen Cosmo-Knight Seljuk has NOT half of what P.P.E. that they had as a Seljuk (e.g., HALF of 1D4 P.P.E.), but half of what they had as a Cosmo-Knight (e.g., HALF of 1D6 X 100, or up to 300 P.P.E.. plus whatever they gained by advancing Levels as a Cosmo-Knight)

E]] Seljuk Text states that they cannot cast Magic ONLY because of their depleted P.P.E. Base (Page 69). NO OTHER restrictions are placed on the Seljuk's Mystic Abilities.


SO WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL???? IT SEEMS EMINENTLY OBVIOUS THAT A FALLEN COSMO-KNIGHT SELJUK CAN CAST MAGIC AND/OR TAKE A MAGE OCC IF SO INCLINED.[/i]

What he said...

except with less color clashing.

Deep Edge wrote:What he said...

except with less color clashing.

But other guys tell me that it brings out my eyes......

What??

What did I say????

Why are you all moving to the other side of the Chat Room away from me...???

MattLing wrote:You're all thinking about this way too scientifically.

If its Sarcasm or a Joke, I guess that I don't get it.

But if you REALLY mean what you said above, please explain when you return. I don't understand.

MattLing wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

MattLing wrote:You're all thinking about this way too scientifically.

If its Sarcasm or a Joke, I guess that I don't get it.

But if you REALLY mean what you said above, please explain when you return. I don't understand.

No, I'm serious. Cosmo-Knights are a mystical force in a largely (though not entirely) scientific dimension.

Though a Cosmo-Knight is no longer human, you would probably not be able to tell that from a blood sample.

A Wolfen Fallen Cosmo-Knight isn't going to have his sense of smell restored (though I would argue that most Cosmo-Knights already have a sense of smell roughly equivalent to that of a Wolfen anyways).

A Seljuk Fallen Cosmo-Knight isn't going to learn magic, because Seljuks don't learn magic. They just plain don't. Why? Who knows. But a Seljuk has had imprinted on it from Day 1 that s/he can't perform magic. That right there creates the psychic barrier that prevents you from ever learning magic (Step 1: Belief).

And so on and so forth.

Of course a wolfen's sense of smell isn't restored.
He doesn't lose it in the first place.
Read the new FAQ.
Besides, it's a belief in magic, not a belief you can't perform it.
They know magic exists, and were at one time a magic-using race.
I'd rule a fallen seljuk could learn magic... besides, it's a game for fun... not just yours, but everyone's.

Frag you Mattling... I hate it when I have to agree with you

(though not about the smell thing, only Wolfen and beings who had it in the first place have that sense developed to such a point)

MattLing wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

MattLing wrote:You're all thinking about this way too scientifically.

If its Sarcasm or a Joke, I guess that I don't get it.

But if you REALLY mean what you said above, please explain when you return. I don't understand.

No, I'm serious. Cosmo-Knights are a mystical force in a largely (though not entirely) scientific dimension.

Though a Cosmo-Knight is no longer human, you would probably not be able to tell that from a blood sample.

A Wolfen Fallen Cosmo-Knight isn't going to have his sense of smell restored (though I would argue that most Cosmo-Knights already have a sense of smell roughly equivalent to that of a Wolfen anyways).

A Seljuk Fallen Cosmo-Knight isn't going to learn magic, because Seljuks don't learn magic. They just plain don't. Why? Who knows. But a Seljuk has had imprinted on it from Day 1 that s/he can't perform magic. That right there creates the psychic barrier that prevents you from ever learning magic (Step 1: Belief).

And so on and so forth.

I see where you're coming from, but that STILL doesn't create a 100% Barrier to them actually learning Magic. I figure that being turned overnight into a Galactic Powerhouse would change your views of the World (Galaxy) in the first place.

I'd go so far as to say that perhaps most Seljuks who become Cosmo-Knights and/or Fallen Ones will never practice Magic, but not a blanket, inescapable prohibition of them EVER casting Magic...........

Most wouldn't, exactly.

But they would be able too, as they wouldn't be seljuk anymore, and would have a HUGE amount of P.P.E.

Deep Edge wrote:Most wouldn't, exactly.

But they would be able too, as they wouldn't be seljuk anymore, and would have a HUGE amount of P.P.E.

That's what I'm saying.

It's pretty hard to imagine even Seljuk living the rest of their lives (and if I'm not mistaken, Fallen Knights STILL have unlimited Life Spans) with all that PPE and NOT trying to find new ways to use it......

Hell, now that I think of it, it's hard to imagine ANY Cosmo-Knight NOT studying Magic.

Why???

#1. They've got ALL the time in the world, now, and a HUGE P.P.E. Base to do so;

AND

#2. If it were ME as a Cosmo-Knight, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT I WOULD DO would be to study Defensive Magicks that I could use to help lessen or negate my Vulnerability to Magic IN THE FIRST PLACE.

cornholioprime wrote:

Deep Edge wrote:Most wouldn't, exactly.

But they would be able too, as they wouldn't be seljuk anymore, and would have a HUGE amount of P.P.E.

That's what I'm saying.

It's pretty hard to imagine even Seljuk living the rest of their lives (and if I'm not mistaken, Fallen Knights STILL have unlimited Life Spans) with all that PPE and NOT trying to find new ways to use it......

Hell, now that I think of it, it's hard to imagine ANY Cosmo-Knight NOT studying Magic.

Why???

#1. They've got ALL the time in the world, now, and a HUGE P.P.E. Base to do so;

AND

#2. If it were ME as a Cosmo-Knight, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT I WOULD DO would be to study Defensive Magicks that I could use to help lessen or negate my Vulnerability to Magic IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I think they have to keep busy doing things.

Indulging that much in grabbing power for yourself would seem to me to go against the code...but hey, as I've always said, Fallen Knights are 10 times cooler than Cosmo Knights.