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They still need to consume PPE and they keep the sensing powers.
All Skills and other powers are per the new OCC.

If they take a PCC then their psionics are replaced by the PCC's. As for their tracking abilities, I don't know what I would do with them, but I know many people would say that the psi-stalker would lose them.

He would have them, but they would stay locked. I do this with any racial character class. They recieve the initial bonuses from race, but they are locked when they choose an O.C.C.

eric.cline wrote:

THW wrote:So do you guys think that the Sense and track powers would go up with the level of the other/new OCC? Or would they stay locked at the level of the Psi-Stalker when he switched?

Yes it would increase per level.
Its like any RCC that is able to pick an OCC.
They have this innate or natural ability despite their educational/training background.

Agreed.

THW wrote:So do you guys think that the Sense and track powers would go up with the level of the other/new OCC? Or would they stay locked at the level of the Psi-Stalker when he switched?

Go up.

BUT.
Here's a REAL question: Can Psi-stalkers take a magic-using OCC? Doesn't say anywhere that they can't...

Vrykolas2k wrote:BUT.
Here's a REAL question: Can Psi-stalkers take a magic-using OCC? Doesn't say anywhere that they can't...

It dosen't say anywhere they can, but it does say they can be nega-psychics and cyberknights. By that logic I could say that a psi-stalker could also be a mindmelter dragon, because it never specifically says that they can't.

I suppose they could learn a spell but they use all their PPE to stay alive so I don't see where they could get the PPE to cast spells as well.

See, I think it's an interesting idea... especially given the fact that psi-Stalker tribes have SHAMAN. Most likely, mystics {as i doubt they'd be Ley Line walkers or Shifters, et al... Warlocks might be a very good possibility, however}.
They are still human, after all. And since they feed off of PPE, which is doubled at the moment of death...

Since we are on the subject of Psi-Stalkers selecting an OCC, did we find a solution to what powers they keep and what is lost? I have a concept for a Psi-Stalker/Crazy and want to make an informed decision before I broach the subject with my group. (I want to save time and a lengthy night of arguments) As a baseline, in Juicer Uprising, the Psycho-Stalker retains ALL of his abilities, including the 6 psi-sensitive powers, with range reduced by half. Even the ISP is unchanged. Maybe this can be used as a template for other classes: with minor augmentation (like juicer, crazy or light cybernetics), range is reduced by half; no augmentation, no change. Major reconstruction like partial reconstruction would incur more penalties (but what?). Other than that, I think reducing OCC related skills and bonuses by half is appropriate. The characters spend most of their time developing their psychic powers taking away from their learning time, thus balancing characters so you don't end up with mind melter/rougue scholars. But sometimes you have to play by ear and work with the player to make a character that works. Compromise.

I think I've rambled on enough, let me know if you think this is a viable alternative.

Tyciol wrote:Not really guys. Psi-stalkers have a PPE pool too, 2D6 if I remember right, and it regenerates just as fast as everyone else. If you had two psi-stalkers willing to deal with the hourly cutting and always having next to no ISP, they could feed off of each other indefinately. They're predators though, and they also prefer to be at full strength and to get their juice elsewhere.

As for magic, if dog boys can learn magic I'd probably let a psi-stalker too... *sigh*

psi-stalkers cannot feed off each other. and they cannot eat ISP energy. I believe this was covered in Sourcebook 1.

And I do not let Psi-Stalkers take OCCs since they are RCCs. I dont let any RCCs do that. Allow a Psi-Stalker cyber-knight and you're just asking for dragon power armor pilots, anti-monster ley line walkers, or hundred-handed cosmo knights.

Didn't Psi-stalker get changed to PCC(OCC) in Ultimate?

Kittenstomp wrote:Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys have been PCC and RCC's for a while now. However, there are OCC's in the Coalition War Campaign that Dog Boys and Psi-Stalkers can take, the NTST Soldier and Psi-NET soldier can both be taken in place of the standard RCC skill program. Personally, I'd treat Psi-Stalkers the same rules as Psi-Hounds described in Lone Star. I don't have the book in front of me, but Psi-Hounds can take any class available to normal humans that doesn't require heavy conversion or magic with some skill penalties.

I agree with one caveat, I'm not comfortable with either a dog boy or a Psi stalker taking another master pisonic OCC on top of their own. I think that rather then having a dog boy/mind melter or a Psi stalker/burster, the master psi OCC would cancel out the Psi abilities and sensitive powers of the dog boy/psi stalker.

I also would hesitate to allow a dog boy or psi stalker to take a magic using class because the books state that dog boys are very uncomfortable around magic and avoid using even techno-wizard devices. I assume that psi stalkers would be similar in their discomfort, although more likely to use techno-wizard guns and such.

I think for the sake of game balance they should just stick to the class printed in UR.

Master psionics are supposed to have less skills as a trade off for the time they spend learning about their powers. Even if a stalker is a mutant they still need to learn how to use the powers the have like any other psionic.

You people want a gunfighter/psi-stalker tribe running around or somthing?

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:And I do not let Psi-Stalkers take OCCs since they are RCCs. I dont let any RCCs do that. Allow a Psi-Stalker cyber-knight and you're just asking for dragon power armor pilots, anti-monster ley line walkers, or hundred-handed cosmo knights.

Being human is an RCC.. they can take OCCs...

what? not hardly. Show me in the book a "Human R.C.C."

Kittenstomp wrote:

Kalinda wrote:

Kittenstomp wrote:Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys have been PCC and RCC's for a while now. However, there are OCC's in the Coalition War Campaign that Dog Boys and Psi-Stalkers can take, the NTST Soldier and Psi-NET soldier can both be taken in place of the standard RCC skill program. Personally, I'd treat Psi-Stalkers the same rules as Psi-Hounds described in Lone Star. I don't have the book in front of me, but Psi-Hounds can take any class available to normal humans that doesn't require heavy conversion or magic with some skill penalties.

I agree with one caveat, I'm not comfortable with either a dog boy or a Psi stalker taking another master pisonic OCC on top of their own. I think that rather then having a dog boy/mind melter or a Psi stalker/burster, the master psi OCC would cancel out the Psi abilities and sensitive powers of the dog boy/psi stalker.

I also would hesitate to allow a dog boy or psi stalker to take a magic using class because the books state that dog boys are very uncomfortable around magic and avoid using even techno-wizard devices. I assume that psi stalkers would be similar in their discomfort, although more likely to use techno-wizard guns and such.

Well... as the book also says they can't take magic or other psychic classes, then the caveat really isn't necessary.

I haven't seen anything that clearly stated one way or the other. Book and page number where that info is located?

Thanks, but I was refereing to kittenstomp's comment about dog boys being able to take magic using OCCs. as far as I know none of the books say one way or the other, the only mention of the subject is on page 39 of Lone star, where it states that they 'have an innate distaste for magic and avoid the mystic OCCs'

Avoiding isn't the same as not being able to take them. So I'm just wondering if I missed something somewhere.

Kittenstomp wrote:

Kalinda wrote:

Kittenstomp wrote:

Kalinda wrote:

Kittenstomp wrote:Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys have been PCC and RCC's for a while now. However, there are OCC's in the Coalition War Campaign that Dog Boys and Psi-Stalkers can take, the NTST Soldier and Psi-NET soldier can both be taken in place of the standard RCC skill program. Personally, I'd treat Psi-Stalkers the same rules as Psi-Hounds described in Lone Star. I don't have the book in front of me, but Psi-Hounds can take any class available to normal humans that doesn't require heavy conversion or magic with some skill penalties.

I agree with one caveat, I'm not comfortable with either a dog boy or a Psi stalker taking another master pisonic OCC on top of their own. I think that rather then having a dog boy/mind melter or a Psi stalker/burster, the master psi OCC would cancel out the Psi abilities and sensitive powers of the dog boy/psi stalker.

I also would hesitate to allow a dog boy or psi stalker to take a magic using class because the books state that dog boys are very uncomfortable around magic and avoid using even techno-wizard devices. I assume that psi stalkers would be similar in their discomfort, although more likely to use techno-wizard guns and such.

Well... as the book also says they can't take magic or other psychic classes, then the caveat really isn't necessary.

I haven't seen anything that clearly stated one way or the other. Book and page number where that info is located?

"Most mutant canines, male and females, have an innate distaste for magic and avoid the mystic OCC's." page 39, Lone Star

It says nothing about psychic classes, but as a dog boy already essentially is a PCC, I'd say they can't develop much more unless it's in conjunciton iwith an OCC rather than a PCC such as Operator or Cyber-Knight.

OK, we are on the same page. I agree that dog boys wouldn't be able to take another PCC without losing their sensitive powers. (and at that point you might as well just make an AtB style mutant and give them a PCC.)

Whether they could take a magic OCC is still somewhat up in the air, but I wouldn't allow it without a heck of a backstory. (and maybe not even then.) If you want a furry mage make a wolfen.

Player: "But then I'd be ten feet tall and have extra SDC and able to do MD with power punches and..." "i'm sorry, why was I objecting again?"

Kittenstomp wrote::lol: Looks like you know what I'm talking about. I read the script on page 39 as meaning "Aside from the rare NPC or PC, no dog boy would ever practice magic, and if they did they better have a good story".

We're essentially in agreement.

Yup.

PSI-stalker/lay line rifter. a very good distance tracker. but please give me ur opinion.

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:And I do not let Psi-Stalkers take OCCs since they are RCCs. I dont let any RCCs do that. Allow a Psi-Stalker cyber-knight and you're just asking for dragon power armor pilots, anti-monster ley line walkers, or hundred-handed cosmo knights.

Being human is an RCC.. they can take OCCs...

what? not hardly. Show me in the book a "Human R.C.C."

It's the default R.C.C. It offers no benefits, no drawbacks.

no

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Mindcrime wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:And I do not let Psi-Stalkers take OCCs since they are RCCs. I dont let any RCCs do that. Allow a Psi-Stalker cyber-knight and you're just asking for dragon power armor pilots, anti-monster ley line walkers, or hundred-handed cosmo knights.

Being human is an RCC.. they can take OCCs...

what? not hardly. Show me in the book a "Human R.C.C."

It's the default R.C.C. It offers no benefits, no drawbacks.

no

How is it not? A R.C.C. is defined as what you are, correct? Thusly, being 'human' qualifies as an R.C.C.

RMB page 97

It specifically states that RCCs are non humans with unique natural abilities.

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Mindcrime wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:And I do not let Psi-Stalkers take OCCs since they are RCCs. I dont let any RCCs do that. Allow a Psi-Stalker cyber-knight and you're just asking for dragon power armor pilots, anti-monster ley line walkers, or hundred-handed cosmo knights.

Being human is an RCC.. they can take OCCs...

what? not hardly. Show me in the book a "Human R.C.C."

It's the default R.C.C. It offers no benefits, no drawbacks.

no

How is it not? A R.C.C. is defined as what you are, correct? Thusly, being 'human' qualifies as an R.C.C.

An RCC has a fixed set of skills and abilities that all members of that race share, kind of like instincts. they cannot take an OCC, but are instead limited to the skill set listed for their race. An example of an RCC would be dragons, they cannot take an OCC because their 'occupation' is being a dragon.

eric.cline wrote:

THW wrote:So do you guys think that the Sense and track powers would go up with the level of the other/new OCC? Or would they stay locked at the level of the Psi-Stalker when he switched?

Yes it would increase per level.
Its like any RCC that is able to pick an OCC.
They have this innate or natural ability despite their educational/training background.

This is how I play it too. They would still increase.

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Kalinda wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Mindcrime wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:And I do not let Psi-Stalkers take OCCs since they are RCCs. I dont let any RCCs do that. Allow a Psi-Stalker cyber-knight and you're just asking for dragon power armor pilots, anti-monster ley line walkers, or hundred-handed cosmo knights.

Being human is an RCC.. they can take OCCs...

what? not hardly. Show me in the book a "Human R.C.C."

It's the default R.C.C. It offers no benefits, no drawbacks.

no

How is it not? A R.C.C. is defined as what you are, correct? Thusly, being 'human' qualifies as an R.C.C.

An RCC has a fixed set of skills and abilities that all members of that race share, kind of like instincts. they cannot take an OCC, but are instead limited to the skill set listed for their race. An example of an RCC would be dragons, they cannot take an OCC because their 'occupation' is being a dragon.

Elf and Demigod are RCCs. They can both take OCCs. That example is not accurate.

Is too.

From RUE, page 148:

We were a bit sloppy in the early days being consistent as to which characters were OCCs and which were RCCs. The dog boy was originally classified as an RCC (so were psychics), but sticking with the definition of an RCC (a character who is so defined by it's genetic makeup that it cannot select other occupations, it is what it is.), a dog boy would be an OCC.

(bolding mine)

Elves and demigods both came out back in the day when they were being 'a bit sloppy' in classing races. A good rule of thumb is that if it can take an OCC, then it's by definition not an RCC.

AdeptPaladin wrote:So.. due to PB's sloppiness. I was temporarily right.

You were always wrong concerning human being an RCC.

AdeptPaladin wrote:Elf and Demigod are RCCs. They can both take OCCs. That example is not accurate.

In the original conversion book Elves were not an RCC but a selectable race, and unless the Revised conversion books has changed that, never were.

AdeptPaladin wrote:So.. due to PB's sloppiness. I was temporarily right.

That's usually the way it goes. the way PB changes its rules, everyone will eventually be right for fifteen minutes...

THW wrote:...
We all love Palladium but you would think with the # of times they have reprinted the Psi-Stalker this would have been explained!

Don't you mean copied and pasted?

Too many times I've seen a Palladium product where the pasted text hadn't even been re-edited, and contradicted information added in the "new" version.

The company really should hire some more editors.