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I have always made any physical skill bonuses affect their MDC as it would an Earther's SDC. It is their innate physiology that makes them MDC not anything in paticular.

Of course, now this thread will be derailed by how would Wormworlders eat MDC animals and why they can beat the crap out of each other since they do SD damage when everyone is MDC structures and the such because that always happens when Wormwood is brought up...or something like that.

I know nothing about Wormworld . . .

But I do like Wormwood.

Incidently, I'm hopping this thread over to the Dimension Book forum because that's that Wormwood is, a Dimension Book.

yeah. I would strongly suggest making everything SDC.

Although, even when you do that, the demons are stupid-tough...one Rathos Rumbler can have up to 6000 SDC/HP!!! Plus armour!!!

GlitterBoy wrote:Just got WormWood, and been reading through it . I've got to say I'm loving the setting. Do have a question. Do humans of WormWood go up in MDC the same way they go up in SDC/HP?

Yes.

GlitterBoy wrote:Man humans from Wormwood that become Juicer must be some real killing machines.

No worries of that. They can't be Juicers.

I beleive in Juicer Uprising it points out that creatures naturally capable of more than 100 SDC can't become juicers.

Someone want to check up on that?

GlitterBoy wrote:

Dr. Doom v.3.0.1 wrote:

GlitterBoy wrote:Man humans from Wormwood that become Juicer must be some real killing machines.

No worries of that. They can't be Juicers.

Were does it say this?

Page 76 under "Other O.C.C.s Common to Wormwood", it states what is the most prevalent in WW.

It also goes on to say that Robots, Cyborgs, JUICERS, Crazies, Cyber-Knights and Mind Melters are NOT indignenous to the planet.

Juicer Uprising also states that most alien life forms cannot become Juicers (page 16, under supernatural beings...I know WWers are not supernatural but in relation to Earthlings, they are alien)

And as far as a Apok Dragon Juicer...I would not allow it due to the Apok's natural determination to stop evil, their imperviousness to symbiotes except for the demon mask, battle saint and orb, and possible interference with their natural magics...besides how would they find a cyber-doc or techno-wizard that knows how to do it.

Ogrr wrote:while we are on the subject of wormwood, it say's in the book that the native population is MDC because of generations of living in a magic rich environment, now how many generations does that take exactly? If a band of humans, ogres, or dogboy's from Rift's earth end up on Wormwood, how long before they would "tuff 'n up"?

It says in the Wormwood book that children born on wormwood with at least one parent being from Wormwood or from parents born off world but that have been on Wormwood for years will be MDC.

This only applies to humans.
No other race will ever become MDC.

GlitterBoy wrote:It says "All natives of Wormwood are mega-damage creatures." That means any race native would be MDC. The word native does not only apply to humans. You are reading it wrong Doom. The and/or is a separation of the rules. So ether the parents have both lived on Wormwood for years and/or one of the parents was all ready a native of Wormwood. You do not need both.

All Wormwood natives are humans.
All others come from somewhere else.

Read the whole book and you'll understand.

Dr. Doom v.3.0.1 wrote:

Ogrr wrote:while we are on the subject of wormwood, it say's in the book that the native population is MDC because of generations of living in a magic rich environment, now how many generations does that take exactly? If a band of humans, ogres, or dogboy's from Rift's earth end up on Wormwood, how long before they would "tuff 'n up"?

It says in the Wormwood book that children born on wormwood with at least one parent being from Wormwood or from parents born off world but that have been on Wormwood for years will be MDC.

Agree

This only applies to humans.
No other race will ever become MDC.

Not so sure about that.

GlitterBoy wrote:It is apparent to me that you do not know the meaning of native. Here is a link. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=natives
Something does not have to be a human to be a native.

It is apparent to me you don't know what the Wormwood book is refering to when it says Wormwood native.
Read the book.

Especially the stuff about the history of Wormwood.

Oh and did you read your definition?

Being a member of the original inhabitants of a particular place.

DaRkMaGe_720 wrote:Well if you wanted to be REALLY technical the only true native of worm wood is wormwood itself the living planet. Everything else came from somewhere else.

I'm not being technical.
I'm being correct.

Wormwood is all for humans.
Only humans can get symbiots.
Only humans can use battle saints and orbs.
Wormwood will die if all the humans there are killed.

The benefits of Wormwood are only available to humans.

DaRkMaGe_720 wrote:I didn't say you were wrong I'm just saying even humans aren't native on the planet. Because wormwoods alive it's like fleas fighting over a dog.

Only if a dog were created for the fleas.

GlitterBoy wrote:Humans are no more native to Wormwood then the Unholy, by the way you are saying it Doom. Humans were there first but that does not mean they were created there. could you point the page out that says Wormwood would die if no humans were there.

While looking for the passage about Wormwood dieing I saw the section on "All natives of wormwood are MD creatures" it also says, "Human visitors to Wormwood from other dimensions remain SDC beings, bla bla bla about children"
Notice where it says human. Not anyone or d-bees or anything else. Just human.

The native human population brought the Unholy to Wormwood. Please read the book.

Pg. 40 Bold added
"As far as anybody can tell, the very planet itself was created and designed to grow into a suitable habitat for Human beings."

Pg 41
"All of the non-human beings, monsters and animals found on the planet are visitors or invaders from other worlds."

Pg 43
"...Should the day arrive that the planet is completely conquered and/or all the humans destroyed, Wormwood will die.

Need I go on?

You would wreck the setting.

Seriously, if you just make everything SDC, life is so much easier. The weapons and such all do MDC when you take them to Rifts (if you must, it all works so much better when it stays in its own little dimension) because of their magical nature. People can now hit each other and do damage without being living phase weapons, and since armour has an AR, monsters can be killed with a well placed shot...otherwise, i have to whittel a Shade down by several THOUSAND points.

GlitterBoy wrote:

Dr. Doom v.3.1.1 wrote:While looking for the passage about Wormwood dieing I saw the section on "All natives of wormwood are MD creatures" it also says, "Human visitors to Wormwood from other dimensions remain SDC beings, bla bla bla about children"
Notice where it says human. Not anyone or d-bees or anything else. Just human.

Natives means natives! It does not matter if it only uses humans as examples. If it was intended to apply only to humans it should say only native humans.

Since Humans are the natives it could only be them used as an example.

Dr. Doom v.3.1.1 wrote:The native human population brought the Unholy to Wormwood. Please read the book.

I am not any less a native of America because no humans were originally from America. The Unholy may have been brought there from somewhere else but they have been there long enough to be native to the planet, even if it kills the planet. Humans were brought to Wormwood from somewhere else that does not make them any less native to the planet.

The original inhabitants. (Your definition.)
Unless you are a North American Indian how long you or your ancestors got here will never make you a Native American.

Dr. Doom v.3.1.1 wrote:Pg. 40 Bold added
"As far as anybody can tell, the very planet itself was created and designed to grow into a suitable habitat for Human beings."

Theory not fact.

Theory backed up by everything about the planet. Like how only humans get any benefits from living on the planet.

Dr. Doom v.3.1.1 wrote:Pg 41
"All of the non-human beings, monsters and animals found on the planet are visitors or invaders from other worlds."

To the humans maybe they are visitors or invaders.

Nope to the GM.
That's not Erin Tarn flavor text. It's GM info about the planet.

Dr. Doom v.3.1.1 wrote:Pg 43
"...Should the day arrive that the planet is completely conquered and/or all the humans destroyed, Wormwood will die.

It does not say should all humans on the planet die the planet will die. It says should all the humans die, and the Unholy conquer the planet it will die. It say this because the Unholy are like a vires to the planet.

You know what and/or means?

Dr. Doom v.3.1.1 wrote:Need I go on?

Yes you do need to go on. All unholy are MDC so you can't prove the planet does not make other natives MDC. You have no proof a native Dogboy would not be MDC.

They are Demons.
Of course I have proof. I gave it to you in my first paragraph.
Please read the book.

And people say Doom can't admit when he's wrong.

GlitterBoy wrote: You have not proven in any way what so ever that if a group of Dogboys came, and lived on Wormwood. That their offspring would not be MDC. In fact our last statements contradict each other on how to be a native of somewhere. By what you say no one on Wormwood can be a native to the planet. Show me somewhere in the book were it says only humans natives are the only ones that can become MDC. O what is that it is not in the book well guess you have no proof.

I have proven it. The book does say so.

All Natives are MDC.
All but humans are visitors or invaders. That only leaves humans as the natives of Wormwood.
Human visitors and only human visitors (not SDC anything else) will have their children become MD creatures.

Black & White

If you want to house rule something else you are free to but that's not how it goes by the book.

Oh and if you think I contradicted myself please show me because I don’t see it.

Could we move this along, please.

The humans of Wormwood are native to the Living Planet, even though they are not indigenous to it. Meaning that they came there from somewhere else, but did not naturally evolve there.

Secondly, supernatural beings, whether they be the Unholy or just random D-bees, become MDC constructs not because of the powers of Wormwood, but because it is a "magic rich environment" (like Rifts Earth) that naturally augments their supernatural nature.

This si the same for the native humans...if they toddle off to Palladium or heros Unlimited, where the magic levels are low, they are SDC goo, same as you or I.

As to the big question": does Wormwood give a damn about human beings versus dogboys and other mortal life forms...just make the setting SDC. Then it doesn't damn well mater.

GlitterBoy wrote:Doom you have nothing to back your clam.

Just what is written in the book.

I don't seem to be the only one that thinks others that coming to live on wormwood would have MDC offspring.

Being wrong is not your exclusive ability it would seem.
But then again I haven't seen anyone else argue for your house rules since I showed you to be wrong with book quotes.

Were as you seem to be the only one that think they would not.

I guess I'm the only one who read the book.

Nothing other then humans and unholy live on the planet right now so every thing that comes to the would be visiting unless they stayed and lived there.

Wrong again.
There are about a dozen or more races listed in the book alone. Besides the book says everything but humans. EVERYTHING

Which is what we are all talking about. Sense nothing on Wormwood can be native by being indigenous(thank for the word Braden, GMPhD could not think of the word) to the planet. That means you can only be native by being born there. It says all natives are MDC so if a pack of dogboys came to live on wormwood you can’t prove they would not have MDC offspring.

they still would not be native. They would be visitors or invaders. Only humans are native to Wormwood. Only humans get the benefits of living on Wormwood. The planet takes care of it's human population and if it's human population dies it dies.

Read the book.
Or stick with your house rules it's up to you.

Observing the argument over Dog Boys immigrating to Wormwood, and becoming M.D.C. with successive generations of their breed, an interesting thought popped into mind.

How human do you have to be to become a mega-damage creature on the artificially created human habitat planetoid?

IF you are referring to genetic structure - you must take into account that human genetic building blocks were used to create the Dog Boy mutant animal. Could it not be possible then that whatever 'sensory organs' within the living planet would then detect the presence of human genes in these creatures, and treat them likewise as humans?

On that same token, humans and ogres can breed, unlike any other alien/D-Bee races as described in the Palladium Megaverse. Could it not be said then that essentially, while primitive, ogres would again be interpreted as human due to their genetic coding?

It is an interesting thought that gives one pause to wonder...

I think WW humans could recieve Juicer augmentation. If the technology wereavailable to them. Meaning that the cyber-doc has tools to do extensive surgery on a MDC being. Also if that man were to stay on WW, he would be in a fix as to how he would get the replacement drugs for his harness. But ithat would probably be the least of his worries, I know few juicers who live anywhere near their life expectancy. If he traveled to Rifts I think he would be good, as long as he aquired the credits to pay for his specialized conversion in a reputable cyber doc's. Chop-Shops = Bad Mojo.

As to the big question": does Wormwood give a damn about human beings versus dogboys and other mortal life forms...just make the setting SDC. Then it doesn't damn well mater

I like the way the Doctor thinks.
I'll take two of that, and if pain persists, I'll call you.

ash_wednesday wrote:

Ogrr wrote:while we are on the subject of wormwood, it say's in the book that the native population is MDC because of generations of living in a magic rich environment, now how many generations does that take exactly? If a band of humans, ogres, or dogboy's from Rift's earth end up on Wormwood, how long before they would "tuff 'n up"?

First of all the SDC PC's won't beable to turn into MDC but their children will. 2nd The people of wormwood changed into MDC because of generations of living in a magic rich environment. WHich means that they are in a sence creatures of magic and therefor can not become juicers.

Just the humans.

I am a fan of Wormwood.More books for Wormwood or in the Rifters please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Princedarkstorm
Warborn

I will get back to work on Brave New Wormwood when we are moved to our new house...so after Nov. 7th.

Fleets of The Three Galaxies should be done by then, thereby freeing me up.

I hope...

GlitterBoy wrote:Just got WormWood, and been reading through it . I've got to say I'm loving the setting. Do have a question. Do humans of WormWood go up in MDC the same way they go up in SDC/HP?

Without reading through pages of posts...

Yes. Their MDC is based on their SDC and HPs. Specifically, HP+SDC=MDC.

Hello everyone First let me state that i also think the wormwood setting is very cool and we have played many fun campaigns on wormwood, although some did end in tragedy
I am new to this forum but i have been a gm in rifts for over 10 years. all the problems you mention here have given me and my players the exact same problems when we started playing wormwood.
The problem always seems to be that wormwood humans are MDC beings on wormwood, it states that the magic rich environment makes them MDC beings - their physiology are influenced somehow and it makes them super tough. The problem is that the information ends here, apparantly even though they are MDC beings they are not capable of inflicting MD with punches and kicks since they are not "supernatural" in nature. The whole discussion about who is supernatural, who is a creature of magic and who is classified to have superhuman or supernatural strength is a discussion i have had so many times that i dont feel like getting into it again, especially since it is something that not even the people from palladium seem to be able to agree on!
Instead we decided to go with the thought that if ur tough as MDC alloys and u swing punches and kicks one should be able to damage other MDC structures. The damage equals (in our game) what humans normally do for damage like 1d4 SDC punch becomes 1d4MD, kicks doing 1d6SDC do 1d6MD and so on, but could be considerably less (like only being able to inflict MD with a power punch or kick). It is obvious that it will be hard for a wormwood human to punch a Host to death before being killed first himself. But again here wormwood helps its humans - resin weapons
Then there is the question whether or not to add a characters damage bonus from a high PS attribute. Well a normal PS attribute (that is one that is not supernatural, superhuman, robotic etc) only adds SDC dam so how can they damage MDC beings? I leave it up to the gamemasters to rule this, but i decided that players where allowed to add their damage bonus when using resin weapons but not when punching, headbutting, kicking, jumpkicking etc. In our game that translated into that if u mean business and really want to kill somebody u will have ur weapons within arms reach, otherwise have fun in the looooong bar fights or use resin knuckle blades:)
In my game i allow characters to add bonuses from physical training to their MDC, so boxing adds 4d6 SDC to a normal character, a wormwood human gets 4d6MDC in my game (but so do NPCs).
A final thought, how many generations will it take before the humans in the magic rich world of rifts become MDC beings - ever think about that ??

i'm telling all of you - emphatically - run it in good ol' SDC. Everyone gets a damage bonus. Everyone gets an Armor Rating.

So many problems get cleared up by this solution, you will be stunned it wasn't released this way in the first place.

Blue Eyes wrote:A final thought, how many generations will it take before the humans in the magic rich world of rifts become MDC beings - ever think about that ??

10... that's about 300 years, ensuring that no PC's will ever claim they retired on Wormwood, settled down, had a young boy who grew up to be an MDC whatever-OCC, and that they are now going to play him.

However, given the Medieval setting, I might say "a thousand generations"...so about 30,000 years. See above answer.

Dr. Doom III wrote:

GlitterBoy wrote: You have not proven in any way what so ever that if a group of Dogboys came, and lived on Wormwood. That their offspring would not be MDC. In fact our last statements contradict each other on how to be a native of somewhere. By what you say no one on Wormwood can be a native to the planet. Show me somewhere in the book were it says only humans natives are the only ones that can become MDC. O what is that it is not in the book well guess you have no proof.

I have proven it. The book does say so.

All Natives are MDC.
All but humans are visitors or invaders. That only leaves humans as the natives of Wormwood.
Human visitors and only human visitors (not SDC anything else) will have their children become MD creatures.

Black & White

If you want to house rule something else you are free to but that's not how it goes by the book.

Oh and if you think I contradicted myself please show me because I don’t see it.

I don't want to look for page numbers, but I back up this claim, I did read that humans born on wormwood would be MDC like everybody else.

Ogrr wrote:In one of the book's, Rift's Atlantis I belive, it say's Ogre's are Ancestores to humans, and as far as I know, human's and Ogres are the only Palladium races that can cross breed sucessfuly.....althought that's none of my concern and I tend not to ask too many questions.

technically, ogres aren't our ancestors, they are a brother twig on the homo branch, like neanderthal and cro magnon... which explains why they are the only race that can actually interbreed with humans

ash_wednesday wrote:

Ogrr wrote:while we are on the subject of wormwood, it say's in the book that the native population is MDC because of generations of living in a magic rich environment, now how many generations does that take exactly? If a band of humans, ogres, or dogboy's from Rift's earth end up on Wormwood, how long before they would "tuff 'n up"?

First of all the SDC PC's won't beable to turn into MDC but their children will. 2nd The people of wormwood changed into MDC because of generations of living in a magic rich environment. WHich means that they are in a sence creatures of magic and therefor can not become juicers.

Actually, wormwood humans are not creatures of magic, they are just humans who, thanks to the living planet's special energies, are sturdy enough to get a laser or MD claw in the face without dying at once... IF they wentto earth, they might become juicers... but you'll notice that those born elsewhere come to wormwood, those born there tend to stay.
Also, due to the medieval level culture, and reliance on magical solutions, I don't think many wormwood natives would find the juicer process attractive. Life is hard, but it's not that cheap.

Braden ur empathy wont work on me , to me and to all my players wormwood is an MDC setting, a dimension book to rifts and therefore it should not be changed to SDC in my opinion. The wormwood book is flawed and leaves many questions open for interpretation, i dont think of this as a problem, only as a glitch that can be fixed. Find out what u want to do about it and do it, its really quite simple

What I want to do about it is write a new Wormwood book...which is in a long process of being done.