Why

[Jimmy Crat]

They can...

shutters at the memories of a campaign long past

[Marrowlight]

Perhaps because it is so easy to accidentally kill a villain with a lot of the powers, and so the alignment and the popular opinion, they start a slipping.

[Uncle Servo]

Read what the HU Game Masters Guide has to say about what happens to good-aligned characters who commit actions outside their alignments.

It'll also depend on how ironclad your individual GM is when it comes to 'enforcing' them. I myself allow a little bit of leeway depending on the situation and how the character reacts afterwards (say maybe 10% chance of leniency). Some GMs claim "alignments don't matter" (in which case you're essentially just playing yourself so might as well go play CoH instead), some GMs enforce automatic alignment shifts regardless of any kind of mitigating circumstances (in which case it's pretty pointless to choose a good character because it's impossible to stay that way), but most fall somewhere between the two extremes.

[Sentinel]

Remember that killing your opponent is not necessarily a reason to drop in alignment.
Murdering your opponent would be, however, but that's a different story.
If killing your opponent were automatically a "bad thing", you wouldn't earn EXP for "killing or subduing" your menaces, minor, major and great.
Sometimes, a villain will force a death duel leaving the hero no way out.
Of course too, it may appear the villain was killed but in fact faked his own death, or simply suvived in order to return later.

[Overlord Rikonius]

Remember that killing your opponent is not necessarily a reason to drop in alignment.
Murdering your opponent would be, however, but that's a different story.
If killing your opponent were automatically a "bad thing", you wouldn't earn EXP for "killing or subduing" your menaces, minor, major and great.
Sometimes, a villain will force a death duel leaving the hero no way out.
Of course too, it may appear the villain was killed but in fact faked his own death, or simply suvived in order to return later.

yeah if inadvertently killing a foe made your alignment slip, then shouldn't the villain not really being dead make you go back up?

[Sentinel]

Remember that killing your opponent is not necessarily a reason to drop in alignment.
Murdering your opponent would be, however, but that's a different story.
If killing your opponent were automatically a "bad thing", you wouldn't earn EXP for "killing or subduing" your menaces, minor, major and great.
Sometimes, a villain will force a death duel leaving the hero no way out.
Of course too, it may appear the villain was killed but in fact faked his own death, or simply suvived in order to return later.

yeah if inadvertently killing a foe made your alignment slip, then shouldn't the villain not really being dead make you go back up?

Depends on how mad you were when you found out he was alive and well, and how much bodily harm you inflicted on him upon his return appearance.

[Jimmy Crat]

Remember that killing your opponent is not necessarily a reason to drop in alignment.
Murdering your opponent would be, however, but that's a different story.
If killing your opponent were automatically a "bad thing", you wouldn't earn EXP for "killing or subduing" your menaces, minor, major and great.
Sometimes, a villain will force a death duel leaving the hero no way out.
Of course too, it may appear the villain was killed but in fact faked his own death, or simply suvived in order to return later.

yeah if inadvertently killing a foe made your alignment slip, then shouldn't the villain not really being dead make you go back up?

Depends on how mad you were when you found out he was alive and well, and how much bodily harm you inflicted on him upon his return appearance.

And if you decided that next time you'd make sure he didn't come back.

[Sentinel]

Remember that killing your opponent is not necessarily a reason to drop in alignment.
Murdering your opponent would be, however, but that's a different story.
If killing your opponent were automatically a "bad thing", you wouldn't earn EXP for "killing or subduing" your menaces, minor, major and great.
Sometimes, a villain will force a death duel leaving the hero no way out.
Of course too, it may appear the villain was killed but in fact faked his own death, or simply suvived in order to return later.

yeah if inadvertently killing a foe made your alignment slip, then shouldn't the villain not really being dead make you go back up?

Depends on how mad you were when you found out he was alive and well, and how much bodily harm you inflicted on him upon his return appearance.

And if you decided that next time you'd make sure he didn't come back.

See my posts on the GMs Forum, about "Playing Evil Characters".

[Overlord Rikonius]

Do Heroes Unlimited Heros Go evil !?

because it's so easy when you're evil

[Sentinel]

Because heroes of absolute principle are a little unrealistic... Superman doesn't kill his opponents, so technically every death that happens after a criminal breaks out of the poorly guarded, ineptly designed prison is on his head. Rather than kill one, he allows many to die...

People playing the games are simply more pragmatic

Heroes of absolute principles are no more guilty for the harm caused ny their opponents than gun makers are responsible for drive by shootings.
People who use that justification are just looking for an excuse for killing Lex Luthor.

[Overlord Rikonius]

Because heroes of absolute principle are a little unrealistic... Superman doesn't kill his opponents, so technically every death that happens after a criminal breaks out of the poorly guarded, ineptly designed prison is on his head. Rather than kill one, he allows many to die...

People playing the games are simply more pragmatic

Heroes of absolute principles are no more guilty for the harm caused ny their opponents than gun makers are responsible for drive by shootings.
People who use that justification are just looking for an excuse for killing Lex Luthor.

I think it really depends on how much said hero can expect the villain to escape and kill.
If you put Lex Luthor in prison and expect him to stay there, then no, you're not guilty. But after so many times, a hero's gotta realize that, "hey, he escaped or wseaseled out of his sentence the last 50 times I sent him there, what makes me think he'll stick around this time?" At that point, it becomes an exercise of denial.

I'm surprised that we haven't seen a supervillain origin of someone who went nuts after a loved one was killed by some supervillain who had escaped from the prison a hero put him in instead of eye lasering his brain. It'd have to be a low popularity villain of course, because the new villain would take his vengeance out on the direct actor before the facilitator.

Also, if I make a gun, I don't know that it will be used in a driveby. It may be used in a driveby or it may save a woman from getting raped. Lex Luthor, however, doesn't have a very high legitimate usefullness to criminal activity ratio. Villains like Joker and Carnage are even worse.

[Sentinel]

Yes, but unlike a gun, they choose to do their foul deeds.
I don't make them do it, and I shouldn't be expected to mete out justice.
When you have great power like Superman, you walk that fine line to not come off with a God Complex. There is a legal system: let it work. And help it along when it needs help.
But, don't use your powers to become the law unto yourself.

[Sentinel]

And, those moral dilemnas are some of the opportunities for three dimensional character development when playing good aligned characters.
Want a role-play challenge? Try not taking the expedient way out.

[Sentinel]

how do i get my rank thing up

Keep making posts. The more you make, the higher your rank.

[Iczer]

Witness the saga of T-Bird (the 'T' Is for Techno). an American Indian mutant, with mechano link, augmented intelligence and will.

After an extended period of 'ghostbusting' across the american Midwest (and trying to score plutonium to make his own nuclear rector), the group comes across a series of malevolent posessions.

The climax of the adventure involves a fight atop a water tower. below lie the bodies of this posessed guy's victims, including the posessed guys wife.

Beaten and bloodied, the posessing entity skips town, and for a moment the posessed farmer loses the manic gleam in his eye. T-Bird, radio's the team psychic who gives him the 'all-clear'.

So Techno breaks his neck. In full view of the team. the scrupulous/unprincipled team. and thier headpiece cams, as well as thier boss.

To this day, the player still belives the murder justifiable and even humane, and cannot see why he got drummed out of the team and thrown into jail.

Batts

[csyphrett]

That looks like a player foul there, Batts.
CES

[Sentinel]

Yeah, sounds a little excessive on the part of the player.
The Possessing Entity was gone: why kill the former possessed?

[Gomen_Nagai]

killing a serial killer is not going to get you in jail.

Possession is not a legal defense in the USA or in most superhero worlds.
the GM is wrong.
unless the Team Prosecuted and testified against the Player, the Super should walk.

the player has full right to Sue the players and the boss. Sounds like you want to punish the player for behaving correctly.

[Sentinel]

In that example, If I were the GM, I would want the players to stay focused on the actual threat: The Possessing entity, not the victim.

If the team said "the guys clear, the entity is gone", and the player kills the guy anyway, then he is not "acting correctly". He's being unnecessarily bloodthirsty.

[Gomen_Nagai]

25, 100, 1000, 5000,

[Iczer]

Yeah, sounds a little excessive on the part of the player.
The Possessing Entity was gone: why kill the former possessed?

oh this is good. his reasoning was 'Well, I've hit him twice, so he should be suffering a lot of pain, and his wife and kids have just died, at his own hand so really, he wouldn't want to live anymore.'

The room was mouth opened, eyes widened and breath stolen stunned.

let me be clear here. he heard the posessing entity say 'bye now', he saw his features change, he called over the radio for a posession check, the confirmation of 'no posession' also went over the radio, he replied (over the radio) Ok he's not posessed, then he breaks his neck.

This was group frequency, with head cams which were patched in to the boss in his remote office. This was in front of local TV choppers. This was in full view of all active team mates (scrupulous with a dash of unprincipled).

The 'It was a Mercy killing' Defence didn't cut it.

Batts

Batts

[Sentinel]

Good thax for the info guys

I believe it is actually 50, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200, 6400, and so on.

[The Artist Formerly]

Do Heroes Unlimited Heros Go evil !?

One of the tough parts about playing a Heroes game is that most of the time Players are coming from other game styles. D&D, Rifts, and Werewolf games killing your enemy isn't just allowable for even the most saintly of characters, it's expected as a form of business. Get up, wack some orcs, CS troopers or Pentex goons, then get your shower and corn flakes.

That's the first hurdle.

Then their is the villian treadmill. In the comics, the heroes beat the bad guys up, then turn them over the proper authorites only to have them bust out, and start the nonsense all over again. Players don't want to suffer through that kind of crap when the simple solution seems easier. Wack the baddie, then get your shower and corn flakes.

The last major grouping of the good hero gone bad is "I've had all Is can stand and I can'ts no-more!" When the hero is pushed beyond his tolerance level by a villian and feels that death, right here and now, is the only option. That's generally legitamate role playing so level that player alone.

So when starting a new game, remind the players about the shift from what you were playing to what your are playing. Stress that point during character creation. That way if the group wants to play a group of gun toting trench coat wearing angst ridden Frank Miller anti-heroes, they can all get in on that vibe and the GM can taylor his or her game to the group. Everyone takes one of the lower alignments and a good time is had by all.

The most efficent way to keep players from crossing that line is to remind them before they cross it, and if they do decide to cross it, have consequences for those actions. This is a game of both the normal, paranormal, natural, supernatural, human and superhuman.

Killing a villian could leak and ruin a character's reputation. Video Cameras are very small these days, and a villian having a hidden camera or fourty concealed in his secert liar isn't that outragous at all. He might be dead, but when the cops take apart his base, he'll still have a way to strike at his hated enemy from the grave. There was a episode of TV program "Homicide, Life on the Streets" in which just such an event happened.

A villian could come back from the dead. Apon entering hell, a dread demonic creature might take the black hearted villian and add to the villian's power, then send him back to earth to achive some goal such as releasing the demonic creature, killing some hated enemy of the fell force, or destroying some important artifact. This season's Teen Titians has circled around this idea almost entirely.

A smart criminalist working for the PD could note that the hero's story of how the villian died and the physical evidence doesn't match up. With some detective work the PD figures out how the villian was killed. Few thing will stick with a player like having his character figured out by a good cop who just did his job. See TV shows like "CSI, CSI Miami, CSI New York and CSI Century Station for details.

Now there are hundreds of ways this could come out, those are just three cases, all assuming the PC doesn't want to admit to the general public what he did to Dr. Badguy. The PC might do it in the open, or admit to it or just get caught. Now the exact circumstances of the slaying or possibly murder will change public reaction a bit, but there are several key elements that you might want to mix in, no matter how it's done.

Dislike from groups such as the ACLU, local police, State Police and the attention of a group like SCRET or Projects LockDown or TYCHE or SECTOR or some such. Anything from a growing resistance from these group to the actions of the hero AND his/her assoicates to legal action in court, or even issuing an arrest warrent for the character. Hell other superheros might come calling looking to take the rouge in.

Fear from the general public. The public might feel that they can't trust the hero anymore. Even in a justifiable killing, people's memories fade. The level of threat the badguy represented get's downplayed or forgotten, while the fact that he's dead is what everyone remembers. Think about it, when the US used it's atomic weapons on the Japanese during the second world war, it was the only salient, sane choice to make, the Truman admin would have been dragged out of office and hung from the nearest lamp post had they decided not to use the weapon and gone with a land invassion of the Japanese home islands. Literally. Now, with the pressures of that conflict forgotten, people are going back and with modern sensibilities and all the hindsight they care to exercise, and not only question the use of those weapons, but demonize those who decided to deploy them. This tendency works against a killer.

Love in all the wrong places. Now this one is the best. Have the heroes' name and likeness embraced, his or her actions praised. But by people the character doesn't want to have calling him a hero. Like Doc Feral, S.H.O.C.K., the KLAN or whatever. Nothing like having your hero become the poster child for ideals he hates is an efficent deterant against breaking the codes of the heroic character.

Now, a character who had a good alignment, then commits a bad act could have to deal with his own mind as his flaw. Bad dreams and disturbing images running through his head. To such an extent that he can't sleep well, which causes a varity of penilties. Starting with a small dink, say -02% to skills, then escaliate from there. When PCs start seeing a loss of their precious attacks per melee, they'll take it seriously.

This last one is golden because it works great, even against aberrant characters. Now personally, I hate the aberrant alignment. Most often because it lets PCs abuse the rules to always have an out when things get tough. That is, they play scrouplous, unprincipaled, or even principaled, most of the time, but when things get tough, or the player just feels like it, they can do "something bad because they have an aberrant alignment".

Weak.

But bad dreams, stat damaging bad dreams, will stick to most any character, and teach the player the value of a code of ethics.

[Sentinel]

I really like several of The Artists' points...

One of the tough parts about playing a Heroes game is that most of the time Players are coming from other game styles.

It is so very important to establish the tone of the campaign.
In an epic fantasy campaign, I establish to the players that the tone id either very Conan-like, or very LoTR like (or whatever feel it is I am trying to capture at the time). Even in a fantasy campaign where death tolls run high, it is still possible to be of high moral principles like Aragorn, Eomer, Arwen, Gandalf, Samwise, and so on.

This last one is golden because it works great, even against aberrant characters. Now personally, I hate the aberrant alignment. Most often because it lets PCs abuse the rules to always have an out when things get tough. That is, they play scrouplous, unprincipaled, or even principaled, most of the time, but when things get tough, or the player just feels like it, they can do "something bad because they have an aberrant alignment".

Weak.

I heartily agree.

But bad dreams, stat damaging bad dreams, will stick to most any character, and teach the player the value of a code of ethics.

I may have to try this.

A smart criminalist working for the PD could note that the hero's story of how the villian died and the physical evidence doesn't match up. With some detective work the PD figures out how the villian was killed. Few thing will stick with a player like having his character figured out by a good cop who just did his job. See TV shows like "CSI, CSI Miami, CSI New York and CSI Century Station for details.

CSI: Century Station isn't aired in my area yet, but I hope it'll be carried on my cable provider soon.

[Gomen_Nagai]

killing a serial killer is not going to get you in jail.

Possession is not a legal defense in the USA or in most superhero worlds.
the GM is wrong.
unless the Team Prosecuted and testified against the Player, the Super should walk.

the player has full right to Sue the players and the boss. Sounds like you want to punish the player for behaving correctly.

what i said is not being addressed.


He had all the legal right to kill the guy because Police will NOT accept alien possession as a legal Defense. The only way he could end up in jail is if the Team took him to court and somehow managed to hood wink the jury.


and in the real world, Mass Murderers who get killed do NOT get their killers punished and .. .really what kind of rose colored glasses are you painting your games in..


I think you need to investigate the idea of superbeing criminal justice.
There are a few books on this subject but as to the titles, You'd have to research on your own.

The Killing was perfectly justified, The Result in that game was not. Only Altruists would forgive the mass murderings of a possessed victim.

[Natalya]

killing a serial killer is not going to get you in jail.

Possession is not a legal defense in the USA or in most superhero worlds.
the GM is wrong.
unless the Team Prosecuted and testified against the Player, the Super should walk.

the player has full right to Sue the players and the boss. Sounds like you want to punish the player for behaving correctly.

what i said is not being addressed.


He had all the legal right to kill the guy because Police will NOT accept alien possession as a legal Defense. The only way he could end up in jail is if the Team took him to court and somehow managed to hood wink the jury.


and in the real world, Mass Murderers who get killed do NOT get their killers punished and .. .really what kind of rose colored glasses are you painting your games in..


I think you need to investigate the idea of superbeing criminal justice.
There are a few books on this subject but as to the titles, You'd have to research on your own.

The Killing was perfectly justified, The Result in that game was not. Only Altruists would forgive the mass murderings of a possessed victim.

It might be a world where psionics are known about and are admissable evidence in a court of law. Or if the general public doesn't know about psionics, the character might have been secretly hauled before a "special" shadow court that does know of such things.

It really depends on how the game world was set up and how high the public level of knowledge is.

[Sentinel]

In any of our campaigns, we'd have left the victim on the spot once the entity left, and gone after the entity. That's the real enemy.

[Glistam]

In any of our campaigns, we'd have left the victim on the spot once the entity left, and gone after the entity. That's the real enemy.

And leaving that man alone there to find out what he has done and deal with it could easily create a new menace for the team to have to deal with. An ordinary person could have a very difficult time coming to terms with having done something like that. Insanity seems like the next inevetable step.

[The Artist Formerly]

killing a serial killer is not going to get you in jail.

Possession is not a legal defense in the USA or in most superhero worlds.
the GM is wrong.
unless the Team Prosecuted and testified against the Player, the Super should walk.

the player has full right to Sue the players and the boss. Sounds like you want to punish the player for behaving correctly.

what i said is not being addressed.


He had all the legal right to kill the guy because Police will NOT accept alien possession as a legal Defense. The only way he could end up in jail is if the Team took him to court and somehow managed to hood wink the jury.


and in the real world, Mass Murderers who get killed do NOT get their killers punished and .. .really what kind of rose colored glasses are you painting your games in..


I think you need to investigate the idea of superbeing criminal justice.
There are a few books on this subject but as to the titles, You'd have to research on your own.

The Killing was perfectly justified, The Result in that game was not. Only Altruists would forgive the mass murderings of a possessed victim.

Possession would fall under the same kind of laws that govern the insane. Wacking some guy who's insanity is in control won't get you any medals. And as time flows forward, every second of the last few minutes, days and weeks of the criminal's life as well as the hero's is going to be gone over with a fine tooth comb. The criminal and his former hero killer are going to be judged in the stop time brilliance of hindsight, where ever second of their lives will have minutes, perhaps hours of research poured into them looking for clues.

The basic idea of this, that golden bit of truth is that the masses will not accept some guy in mask and spandex deciding who should die for their crimes and who should be turned over to the police. Like that guy in the UK, the chance of a mistake shatters people's trust of authority.

[Sentinel]

In any of our campaigns, we'd have left the victim on the spot once the entity left, and gone after the entity. That's the real enemy.

And leaving that man alone there to find out what he has done and deal with it could easily create a new menace for the team to have to deal with. An ordinary person could have a very difficult time coming to terms with having done something like that. Insanity seems like the next inevetable step.

One man, possibly looking at insanity.
One Possessing Entity, on the loose, barefoot and malevolent.
Prioritise: Which is the greater threat?

[The Artist Formerly]

Does anyone still really eat corn flakes?

Blech!

That goes against my principles!

I appeciate that.

[The Artist Formerly]

Remember that killing your opponent is not necessarily a reason to drop in alignment.
Murdering your opponent would be, however, but that's a different story.
If killing your opponent were automatically a "bad thing", you wouldn't earn EXP for "killing or subduing" your menaces, minor, major and great.
Sometimes, a villain will force a death duel leaving the hero no way out.
Of course too, it may appear the villain was killed but in fact faked his own death, or simply suvived in order to return later.

This is important to note.

In combat, especially super combat, it's easy for a lucky shot kill someone. That's not nessicarrily intentional, just bad luck for the dead guy.

[Guest]

Another thing to point out.

I bring in Alignment Changes...

If you don't act Unprincpled, you're not staying that way...if you strive to be better, you will be, you just do what you want, kill who you want, you're going to slide down the scale.

The Key is, Intent....did you Intend to kill the guy, if so, did you Intend to do it so he wouldn't kill others, or did just do it because you wanted the Exp Bonus?

[Sentinel]

Remember that killing your opponent is not necessarily a reason to drop in alignment.
Murdering your opponent would be, however, but that's a different story.
If killing your opponent were automatically a "bad thing", you wouldn't earn EXP for "killing or subduing" your menaces, minor, major and great.
Sometimes, a villain will force a death duel leaving the hero no way out.
Of course too, it may appear the villain was killed but in fact faked his own death, or simply suvived in order to return later.

This is important to note.

In combat, especially super combat, it's easy for a lucky shot kill someone. That's not nessicarrily intentional, just bad luck for the dead guy.

By intentional, or murder, I am referring to the PC shooting after fighting was over.
In other words, no more combat, this is an execution.

[Gomen_Nagai]

killing a serial killer is not going to get you in jail.

Possession is not a legal defense in the USA or in most superhero worlds.
the GM is wrong.
unless the Team Prosecuted and testified against the Player, the Super should walk.

the player has full right to Sue the players and the boss. Sounds like you want to punish the player for behaving correctly.

what i said is not being addressed.


He had all the legal right to kill the guy because Police will NOT accept alien possession as a legal Defense. The only way he could end up in jail is if the Team took him to court and somehow managed to hood wink the jury.


and in the real world, Mass Murderers who get killed do NOT get their killers punished and .. .really what kind of rose colored glasses are you painting your games in..


I think you need to investigate the idea of superbeing criminal justice.
There are a few books on this subject but as to the titles, You'd have to research on your own.

The Killing was perfectly justified, The Result in that game was not. Only Altruists would forgive the mass murderings of a possessed victim.

Possession would fall under the same kind of laws that govern the insane. Wacking some guy who's insanity is in control won't get you any medals. And as time flows forward, every second of the last few minutes, days and weeks of the criminal's life as well as the hero's is going to be gone over with a fine tooth comb. The criminal and his former hero killer are going to be judged in the stop time brilliance of hindsight, where ever second of their lives will have minutes, perhaps hours of research poured into them looking for clues.

The basic idea of this, that golden bit of truth is that the masses will not accept some guy in mask and spandex deciding who should die for their crimes and who should be turned over to the police. Like that guy in the UK, the chance of a mistake shatters people's trust of authority.

this is a good point, but apparently Iczer gave no thought to this.

in Gov't sanctioned Super teams, Killing the bad guy is going to be acceptable ... I'd blame this on the Gm really for not wanting to go on the Criminal prosecution tangent.

[Daniel Stoker]

this is a good point, but apparently Iczer gave no thought to this.

in Gov't sanctioned Super teams, Killing the bad guy is going to be acceptable ... I'd blame this on the Gm really for not wanting to go on the Criminal prosecution tangent.

And the police can't just go around killing people who are subdued now can they?



Daniel Stoker

[csyphrett]

Even in wartime, soldiers are not supposed to kill an enemy that has given up and laid down their arms.

Same with law enforcement. Guy on the ground with his hands over his head means that it is illegal to be shot by a cop.

The way the situation is explained the guy had no reason to kill the possessed victim. He just did it because he wanted to.

Psionics (at least a psionic pc) have been mentioned. A third hand expert could verify no possession and recommend treatment in a hospital.

The player lost his own mind and did something stupid. It happens all the time.
CES

[Gomen_Nagai]

Public Opinion is always a BEAST Lest Savory then those of Principled Characters. my point stands, Iczer did not want to go through the tangent, ... Even a Half Ass Attorney could get him out of it.


If it was Legal for them to kill the guy while he was possessed, then it was legal for him to kill the guy afterwards.


Unless psychic phenomena was something already mitigated in courts and acceptable as proof, ... Then the whole thing would go as iczer would want.


However, if not, Normal courts would not be equipped to do the work.
a "Shadow Court" would be needed.

[Daniel Stoker]

Public Opinion is always a BEAST Lest Savory then those of Principled Characters. my point stands, Iczer did not want to go through the tangent, ... Even a Half Ass Attorney could get him out of it.

How does a he get out of killing an unarmed man exactly?

If it was Legal for them to kill the guy while he was possessed, then it was legal for him to kill the guy afterwards.

Where did you get it was ever legal?




Daniel Stoker

[Overlord Rikonius]

Public Opinion is always a BEAST Lest Savory then those of Principled Characters. my point stands, Iczer did not want to go through the tangent, ... Even a Half Ass Attorney could get him out of it.


If it was Legal for them to kill the guy while he was possessed, then it was legal for him to kill the guy afterwards.


Unless psychic phenomena was something already mitigated in courts and acceptable as proof, ... Then the whole thing would go as iczer would want.


However, if not, Normal courts would not be equipped to do the work.
a "Shadow Court" would be needed.

It's a world with superheroes and the like. Odds are that the courts take such notions into consideration, at least somewhat.

[Gomen_Nagai]

Public Opinion is always a BEAST Lest Savory then those of Principled Characters. my point stands, Iczer did not want to go through the tangent, ... Even a Half Ass Attorney could get him out of it.

How does a he get out of killing an unarmed man exactly?

If it was Legal for them to kill the guy while he was possessed, then it was legal for him to kill the guy afterwards.

Where did you get it was ever legal?


daniel Stoker

it currently is legal to shoot a homicidal maniac. This is why No one gets arrested when Things like Ruby Ridge or WACO happens. At best the civs get to sue for wrongful death.

[Daniel Stoker]

it currently is legal to shoot a homicidal maniac. This is why No one gets arrested when Things like Ruby Ridge or WACO happens. At best the civs get to sue for wrongful death.

Not when they're obviously incapacitated, which wasn't the case in any of your examples but the case in Izers.



Daniel Stoker

[Sentinel]

Public Opinion is always a BEAST Lest Savory then those of Principled Characters. my point stands, Iczer did not want to go through the tangent, ... Even a Half Ass Attorney could get him out of it.


If it was Legal for them to kill the guy while he was possessed, then it was legal for him to kill the guy afterwards.


Unless psychic phenomena was something already mitigated in courts and acceptable as proof, ... Then the whole thing would go as iczer would want.


However, if not, Normal courts would not be equipped to do the work.
a "Shadow Court" would be needed.

It's a world with superheroes and the like. Odds are that the courts take such notions into consideration, at least somewhat.

Exactly.
A world like Marvel Earth, for example, makes it acceptable to perform in public as a masked vigilante, provided the activities of that vigilante do not include felonies. Daredevil is a good example of this (Spider-Man wouldn't have as many problems as he does, except for the Daily Bugle smear campaign, and even then, it's not like anyone tries hard to arrest him).
Once superheroes are accepted at any level, their impact on the law will be significant. I doubt Reed Richards would be able to set up half of his equipment in the limits of any city jurisdiction in the real world, certainly not New York. And, while Iron Man may be "Tony Starks' bodyguard", I doubt that would carry much weight in the eyes of the law.
So, a large degree of latitude needs to be given especially in a world of high powered heroes. In a low-power or no-powered campaign world, it is easier to mimic the laws and statutes of the real world, if the GM and players want that sort of ultra-realism.

[Overlord Rikonius]

Public Opinion is always a BEAST Lest Savory then those of Principled Characters. my point stands, Iczer did not want to go through the tangent, ... Even a Half Ass Attorney could get him out of it.


If it was Legal for them to kill the guy while he was possessed, then it was legal for him to kill the guy afterwards.


Unless psychic phenomena was something already mitigated in courts and acceptable as proof, ... Then the whole thing would go as iczer would want.


However, if not, Normal courts would not be equipped to do the work.
a "Shadow Court" would be needed.

It's a world with superheroes and the like. Odds are that the courts take such notions into consideration, at least somewhat.

Exactly.
A world like Marvel Earth, for example, makes it acceptable to perform in public as a masked vigilante, provided the activities of that vigilante do not include felonies. Daredevil is a good example of this (Spider-Man wouldn't have as many problems as he does, except for the Daily Bugle smear campaign, and even then, it's not like anyone tries hard to arrest him).
Once superheroes are accepted at any level, their impact on the law will be significant. I doubt Reed Richards would be able to set up half of his equipment in the limits of any city jurisdiction in the real world, certainly not New York. And, while Iron Man may be "Tony Starks' bodyguard", I doubt that would carry much weight in the eyes of the law.
So, a large degree of latitude needs to be given especially in a world of high powered heroes. In a low-power or no-powered campaign world, it is easier to mimic the laws and statutes of the real world, if the GM and players want that sort of ultra-realism.

Also in a newly empowered game world. Look at the Internet, and how for a while there was basically little or no law applicable to it, and now they're trying to set up laws for it. Same thing with powers.
If a few random sorts got superpowers today, there'd be a "wild west" period where certain things were de facto legal. Shooting a laser out of My eyes to kill someone would still be illegal. But using telepathy to make him sign his fortune over to Me? That wouldn't exactly be illegal, but you can bet that after a couple cases of things like that happening, laws against mind control would be passed.
The hardest part is proving or disproving it. BUt courts would probably have psychics on call to scan people to look for residual psi traces or whatever.

[The Artist Formerly]

Even in wartime, soldiers are not supposed to kill an enemy that has given up and laid down their arms.

Same with law enforcement. Guy on the ground with his hands over his head means that it is illegal to be shot by a cop.

The way the situation is explained the guy had no reason to kill the possessed victim. He just did it because he wanted to.

Psionics (at least a psionic pc) have been mentioned. A third hand expert could verify no possession and recommend treatment in a hospital.

The player lost his own mind and did something stupid. It happens all the time.
CES

Here's a question, I raise my hands in surrender, but I've got EE powers and glowing eyes. Am I giving up or just suckering the authorities to lower their guard enough to blast them to atoms?

[Sentinel]

Even in wartime, soldiers are not supposed to kill an enemy that has given up and laid down their arms.

Same with law enforcement. Guy on the ground with his hands over his head means that it is illegal to be shot by a cop.

The way the situation is explained the guy had no reason to kill the possessed victim. He just did it because he wanted to.

Psionics (at least a psionic pc) have been mentioned. A third hand expert could verify no possession and recommend treatment in a hospital.

The player lost his own mind and did something stupid. It happens all the time.
CES

Here's a question, I raise my hands in surrender, but I've got EE powers and glowing eyes. Am I giving up or just suckering the authorities to lower their guard enough to blast them to atoms?

More likely they told you to lie face down, hands on your head.
Failing to comply will likely get you shot.

[The Artist Formerly]

Even in wartime, soldiers are not supposed to kill an enemy that has given up and laid down their arms.

Same with law enforcement. Guy on the ground with his hands over his head means that it is illegal to be shot by a cop.

The way the situation is explained the guy had no reason to kill the possessed victim. He just did it because he wanted to.

Psionics (at least a psionic pc) have been mentioned. A third hand expert could verify no possession and recommend treatment in a hospital.

The player lost his own mind and did something stupid. It happens all the time.
CES

Here's a question, I raise my hands in surrender, but I've got EE powers and glowing eyes. Am I giving up or just suckering the authorities to lower their guard enough to blast them to atoms?

More likely they told you to lie face down, hands on your head.
Failing to comply will likely get you shot.

That works too, can still blast the hell out of the authorities that way.

[Guest]

Even in wartime, soldiers are not supposed to kill an enemy that has given up and laid down their arms.

Same with law enforcement. Guy on the ground with his hands over his head means that it is illegal to be shot by a cop.

The way the situation is explained the guy had no reason to kill the possessed victim. He just did it because he wanted to.

Psionics (at least a psionic pc) have been mentioned. A third hand expert could verify no possession and recommend treatment in a hospital.

The player lost his own mind and did something stupid. It happens all the time.
CES

Here's a question, I raise my hands in surrender, but I've got EE powers and glowing eyes. Am I giving up or just suckering the authorities to lower their guard enough to blast them to atoms?

More likely they told you to lie face down, hands on your head.
Failing to comply will likely get you shot.

That works too, can still blast the hell out of the authorities that way.

Ah, thats why I always select flight powers...

Lets see ya get me now coppa! *pchew!* *pchew!*

[Sentinel]

Some GMs also like to use a characters disposition when they look at your alignment.

Like me for example.
I love the addition of Disposition to Alignment in determining a characters' personality.

[csyphrett]

Even in wartime, soldiers are not supposed to kill an enemy that has given up and laid down their arms.

Same with law enforcement. Guy on the ground with his hands over his head means that it is illegal to be shot by a cop.

The way the situation is explained the guy had no reason to kill the possessed victim. He just did it because he wanted to.

Psionics (at least a psionic pc) have been mentioned. A third hand expert could verify no possession and recommend treatment in a hospital.

The player lost his own mind and did something stupid. It happens all the time.
CES

Here's a question, I raise my hands in surrender, but I've got EE powers and glowing eyes. Am I giving up or just suckering the authorities to lower their guard enough to blast them to atoms?

I don't know. I do know when a player did this, he was trying option two and he ended up with a bunch of holes in him.

He lost his mind, and did something stupid.
CES