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The CS could have stomped these guys
Just cause you are invunerable does not mean that your can over power PA
You still have to breath so I trip by 4 super sams into the bottom of a river would kill him.
He only has supernatual strength when carring things as the book says therefore he is not able to even damage a CS trooper in in armour without a weapon.

Plus the fact that the CS has hundreds if not thousands of psychics.

Rolling Bear wrote:I was reading through HU and found a super power that would allow a character to single handedly dominate the CS.

Invunerability makes a character invunerable to all attacks except psionic spell amgic and other magic. Even supernatural PS only does half damage. Now if you got a couple of these guys they could wipe out an entire CS battalion with no sweat. It says ground zero at a nuclear explosion or Super NOva, and fiery ereentry into an atmosphere from space, might HURT the character.

Seriously though if Tolkeen could have found like 10 of these guys or made them somehow there would be no need to destroy uit.

Ahem...

"Call captain Zane over, Sergeant."

Zane runs over and salutes. "Sir!"

"Zane..you're..what do they call those again..a Zapper?"

"SIR YES SIR!"

"Good. Assemble the rest of your psi-team, make sure you have a Burster or two. That d-bee over there is your target. Lay down supressive fire and continue with an immediate execution in par with your powers."

"SIR!" *salutes, and gets to the dirty business*

Buzz. Burn. ect ect..

You have a Super Hero with the HU power of Invulnerability? I have over a million Dog Boys all armed with Nerual Maces and Net Guns... and all I need is just a small few neutralize Mr. Super Hero before zapping him into a coma. After that I'm thinking of dropping him in a pit of drying MDC concrete. Let's see how his invulnerability deals with a lung full of that crud.

Rolling Bear wrote:It says ground zero at a nuclear explosion or Super NOva, and fiery ereentry into an atmosphere from space, might HURT the character.

If a Super Nova explosion will only hurt the character, then mentioning "firey reentry" or "nuclear explosions" is completely pointless, as neither would even give the character pause.

Or, in Sesame Street terms, "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong."

<grumbles about inappropriately written rules-examples />

RainOfSteel wrote:

Rolling Bear wrote:It says ground zero at a nuclear explosion or Super NOva, and fiery ereentry into an atmosphere from space, might HURT the character.

If a Super Nova explosion will only hurt the character, then mentioning "firey reentry" or "nuclear explosions" is completely pointless, as neither would even give the character pause.

Or, in Sesame Street terms, "One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong."

<grumbles about inappropriate rules-examples />

Lol...its a game

Rolling Bear wrote:I was reading through HU and found a super power that would allow a character to single handedly dominate the CS.

Invunerability makes a character invunerable to all attacks except psionic spell amgic and other magic. Even supernatural PS only does half damage. Now if you got a couple of these guys they could wipe out an entire CS battalion with no sweat. It says ground zero at a nuclear explosion or Super NOva, and fiery ereentry into an atmosphere from space, might HURT the character.

Seriously though if Tolkeen could have found like 10 of these guys or made them somehow there would be no need to destroy uit.

1. As has been pointed out, there are zillions of ways to stop an invulnerable character without damaging him. Nets, lassos, neural maces, radiation, drowning, strangulation, imprisonment, Psychic powers, etc. etc. etc.
2. Particle Beams can damage a person with Invulnerability. Dumb but true.

Well, If the US Army and USMC were to recruit, train and equip an entire army of Super humans, they could probably kick the CS states colective asses. Assumeing that they also get access to "Rifts modern" Weapons and body armor.

Killer Cyborg wrote:2. Particle Beams can damage a person with Invulnerability. Dumb but true.

Huh where did you get this?

Ishtirru wrote:

Janissary wrote:Not even the so-called "Mega Hero" could take down the entire Coalition by brute force. Not even Odin or Spylnncyrth could do that.

WRONG. The it is said that the Splugorth could wipe out the Xinticix in two weeks, something that the CS cannot. Aslo don't underestimate a head god of a pantheon. They could summon legions upon legions of minions.

splincreth runs the most powerfull country on the planit he has
3 planits worth of reserves. He could take down the colition with out
a problem.

Ishtirru wrote:

Janissary wrote:Not even the so-called "Mega Hero" could take down the entire Coalition by brute force. Not even Odin or Spylnncyrth could do that.

WRONG. The it is said that the Splugorth could wipe out the Xinticix in two weeks, something that the CS cannot. Aslo don't underestimate a head god of a pantheon. They could summon legions upon legions of minions.

I don't believe you understood what I wrote. Let me try again...

Lord Splynncryth HIMSELF, not his vast army of minions, could not take out the Coalition. Lord Splynncryth all by his lonesome, with out any aid.

It goes without saying that he could take over the entire planet if he wanted too. That was put out in the Atlantis book.

Before calling someone wrong, please try to at least read what they have written.

Lord Cherico wrote:
splincreth runs the most powerfull country on the planit he has
3 planits worth of reserves. He could take down the colition with out
a problem.

If by "splincreth" you mean Splynncryth, then yes. As I said to Ishtirru, it was put out in the Atlantis book that with his resources he could have conquered the whole planet by now if that was his wish.

I will suggest to you exactly what I suggested to Ishtirru, that being read and hopefully understand what someone has written before making wild(and false) accusations.

The CS could wipe out the bugs were they willing to commit their entire combat force to the undertaking, something they obviously cannot do. As for Splyn being able to do it in two weeks, maybe exaggerated a bit but he does have 3+ planets and Atlantis at his disposal leaving him able to field a much larger and more magically formidable army than the CS could ever hope to field.

I understood perfectly what you meant Toc rat.

You are absolutly correct, Splynncryth alone would get his butt handed to him by the CS, just like a superhuman with Invunerability would.

Kalinda wrote:I understood perfectly what you meant Toc rat.

You are absolutly correct, Splynncryth alone would get his butt handed to him by the CS, just like a superhuman with Invunerability would.

Oh good, I was begining to think I had lost my ability to communicate

demos606 wrote:The CS could wipe out the bugs were they willing to commit their entire combat force to the undertaking, something they obviously cannot do. As for Splyn being able to do it in two weeks, maybe exaggerated a bit but he does have 3+ planets and Atlantis at his disposal leaving him able to field a much larger and more magically formidable army than the CS could ever hope to field.

The Coalition could destroy the Xiticix in a long protracted war if they act immediately and if they were to fully commit their resources. However it seems far more likely they will continue to ignore the threat posed by the Xiticix in favor of attacking easyer opponents that have little or no chance of harming them.

CS just has too much collective firepower for any singular being to have a realistic chance of taking them out, no matter how much we might like to dream it could happen. The Lord of the Deep isn't capable of it without its hordes upon hordes of minions and it quite possible could eliminate the bugs all by its lonesome.

I remember reading somewhere in Atlantis a statement which consisted along the lines of Splynncryth having no current interest in Rifts Earth domination. Mind you, Earth is a powerful playground. Splynn may be with a group of his own, but if you get united forces together, they could indeed give the entire Spylnny army one hell of a run. Earth is the place for badasses. A mixing pot of various things. I don't think that the entire planet could be controlled by our dear friend the splugorth, at least certainly not within just a few months. This isn't the movie Red Dawn after all. Earth was unprepared last time. Now..we're locked and loaded.

Being invulnerable and taking on the entire Coalition? *Shakes head* Any GM that even remotely suggests such an idea obviously has no actual understanding of the military strength of the Coalition. Hell, Kevin and his boys actually got it wrong compared to today's armed forces. The Special Forces O.C.C. reflects nothing but a person with an attitude and h2h commando. And they'd still be a deadly threat.

Ishtirru wrote:You are all wrong! There is one Super Hereo who could destroy the CS! His name is Kevin Siembeda!

Lol. I don't think Kevin is holding the reigns as much as the players are.

Kevin is *not* a Super Hero. Kevin is YHVH as far as Rifts is concerned.

With the resources of three entire planets at his disposal, Lord Splynncryth could conquer Rifts Earth but he knows that holding on to it afterwards would be a never ending battle. Consequently, he contents himself with complete domination of one continent and stirring up trouble here and there acorss the rest of the world.

Ishtirru wrote:
Untill an OLD ONE wakes up and demands Splynny to bow down to it.

10 chinese masters could take down an old one, by the rules.

Ishtirru wrote:

Res Sin Kai wrote:

Ishtirru wrote:
Untill an OLD ONE wakes up and demands Splynny to bow down to it.

10 chinese masters could take down an old one, by the rules.

Chinese Masters? I don't have the China books.

It would require quite a few masters of Tien-Hsueh, a mystic martial art that deals with pressure points. To get to the point, they would get into range of the old one, and use the ability "Tien-Hsueh Demon Strike" which automatically knocks any supernatural M.D.C. being (An Old One would be a Supernatural Being) or lesser creature of magic to 1D4x10% of its original MDC. So, if you rolled a 1, the Old One would be knocked down to 10% of his M.D.C. Someone else attacks, perhaps rolls a 1, and the Old one is knocked down to 1% of his M.D.C. That's assuming the best possible situation. Of course, you'd need a lot of masters because some are definitely going to be killed. The big thing is that despite being "Touch Mastery" higher level masters can do it at a distance of 400 feet per level, looking at them from a television screen or even if you had the opponent on the phone. I'm not saying that I'd ever do this. Obviously Erick Wujcik wasn't paying attention to what he wrote, because this gives power over every supernatural creature that pose a threat (including Splugorth). I'd never try to do this situation in a game, 1. it's just lame, 2. its a technical error 3. people that try to take advantage of technical errors are lame.

Edit: The power will also pass any armor or MDC barrier.

is this Mystic China or the RIFTS China books?

Ishtirru wrote:

Wildfire wrote:The CS could have stomped these guys
Just cause you are invunerable does not mean that your can over power PA
You still have to breath so I trip by 4 super sams into the bottom of a river would kill him.
He only has supernatual strength when carring things as the book says therefore he is not able to even damage a CS trooper in in armour without a weapon.

WRONG. SN Strength does MDC damage. He could also have torn off the arms of those PA's.

Invunerability only gives you SN lifting and not for damage so 4 or 5 PSa could esily hold him

Lord Cherico wrote:

Ishtirru wrote:

Janissary wrote:Not even the so-called "Mega Hero" could take down the entire Coalition by brute force. Not even Odin or Spylnncyrth could do that.

WRONG. The it is said that the Splugorth could wipe out the Xinticix in two weeks, something that the CS cannot. Aslo don't underestimate a head god of a pantheon. They could summon legions upon legions of minions.

splincreth runs the most powerfull country on the planit he has
3 planits worth of reserves. He could take down the colition with out
a problem.

The cs would do a final strike on Atlantis a no win situation as Atlanitis would no longer be the valuble island as it is due to the massive radiation contamination

No does Atlantis have the barrier/shield that Tolkeen had?
If so it has never been mentioned in any book.
Tolkeen had some very unique magic and magic items that the Fed of magic and Atlantis are looking foor and that Barrier system would seem like one of the items there are looking for.
Besides subs are right of the coast for most final strike threats.

Bu I do agree that if Atlantis did want to take over the world they could but it would be costly and would most likely be uninhabitale for a while.
Most groups would join together even if it it is just a loose alliance against a greater evil. Look at WW@ the allies included Stalin and the USSR.

Wow, now you just keep adding stuff and FYI the CS can and will feild PSI-BAT at full strength to combat something like that.

As for Toc Rat being inconsistent... HUH he named 2 very specific beings how does that imply more.

Rolling Bear wrote:Sorry just re-read the thing they can get hurt by gases and poisons but take half damage and suffer half the penalties.

And anyway i'm sure they would have some type of armor on.

So the deadboys blast a hole in the armor and then gas them...does the mustard (or whatever nasty nerve gas they have access to) only make the Invulnerable characters half dead...I doubt it

The scinerio is too simplistic... maybe if you had several hundred or a thousand of such characters and they were able to get into the fortress city undetected and were able to exicute a well organized plan this could cripple the CS.... but destroy it completely...not likely even if this was successfull.

The Galactus Kid wrote:is this Mystic China or the RIFTS China books?

RIFTS China books

Rolling Bear wrote:What china who's china?

*Suggests Rolling Bear scrolls up to the top of the page and reads my posts about Touch Mastery.*

Rolling Bear wrote:alright found it

what about an Invunerable super hereo with the touch mastery thing?

Well, he's considered supernatural isn't he?

If so, his ass is grass in a lawnmower.

Rolling Bear wrote:Alright fair enough.

I don't have War Campaign handy how large is the Psi-Battalion?

It's actually Psi-DIVISION now. Heck its more likely its Psi-Corps now.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:

Rolling Bear wrote:Alright fair enough.

I don't have War Campaign handy how large is the Psi-Battalion?

It's actually Psi-DIVISION now. Heck its more likely its Psi-Corps now.

It is Psi-Division. Psyscape mentions the increase is going to happen.

UH-OH wheres Bestor?

Okay Rolling bear how do you kill the invunerable char well once the gas takes effect put him in a self contained vacuum and suck the air away as he needs to breath, heack throw all ten in that vacuum

Rolling Bear wrote::lol:

I didn't know self contained vacuums were standard gear for coalition soldiers.

How would they know what they were dealing with anyway? Its not like once they hit him or her with everything they had and he wasn't scracthed they would think....hey I bet he's invunerable to everything but psionics poison, he needs to breathe and he needs to eat, I know that wouldn't go through my head. Its not like they deal with those guys all the time, personally I would imagine the coalition would assume its some type of new magic and freak out not that they are super hereos with super powers.

Correct. Their line of thinking would be along with 'More bullets' theory. They'd just keep hitting with heavier and heavier weapons until they finally realized that it isn't working. They would however no doubt eventually try the use of psionics.

And besides, as Erin Tarn wrote, even though the Coalition is evil, without them demons and monsters would rise to the level much like the cataclysm was. They're an evil, but they're a necessary one.

Rolling Bear wrote:No one has given me a good reason why the CS would win.

The CS usually will strike with every heavy weapon they have, its not like they would figure out all of a sudden that if you put the guy in a vacuum he'd die I doubt thats a normal option. Ok then there are they psychics, yes the CS would use them but how long would it take for them to realize their robots and tech doesn't work? Plus the guy is fighting back. I'm certain he would understand his limits and take the Psychics out as fast as he could, give him a couple heavy weapons or some other superpowers if you wanted to but still he wouldn't really worry about the 20ft tall mech because it wouldn't do anything.

Ok thousands of psychics...

One bio-manipulation that makes it

One dead Invulnerable guy.

In acordance to melee attacks, he'd be a dead man. Hundreds of melee attacks, his 5-8? Humans are extremely resourceful. If they even had a harder time, they might even lose some of their anti-magic feelings and hire out some diabolic magic users. Who knows?

Zapper - Neurostrike


That's all that's actually needed.

Rolling Bear wrote:Ok but how long would it take for them to realise they need said Zapper and thats saying he doesn't save

It's not a question of how long it takes. The CS wouldn't hesistate to use the ability on a regular D-Bee or enemy human. It may even be that the Psi-battalion may be first called, because the coalition doesn't want to waste the ammo on him.

Rolling Bear wrote::x

I'll be back and my next superhero will dominate the coalition.

That's all

Ishtirru wrote:

Dead Boy wrote:You have a Super Hero with the HU power of Invulnerability? I have over a million Dog Boys all armed with Nerual Maces and Net Guns... and all I need is just a small few neutralize Mr. Super Hero before zapping him into a coma. After that I'm thinking of dropping him in a pit of drying MDC concrete. Let's see how his invulnerability deals with a lung full of that crud.

Neural Maces are too weak to effect someone with Invulnerability. Lightning wouldn't do damage so why would a stun gun stun him.

HU's Invulnerability only eliminates the possability of taking damage (HP/SDC). It only mitigates debilitating attacks, which is the general category the CS Neural Mace falls under. So worst case scenario it's only half as effective as normal. After being wacked up-side the head a few dozen times, Mr. Super Hero won't know the difference.

Too weak my ***... The things were made to take on supernatural monsters and lay them out like the over-rated sissy-girls they are.

The Sovereign wrote:

Rolling Bear wrote:Thats not what I meant.

I don't care anymore it seems as though no one else shares my dream of making a character that would destroy the coalition.

Nope, because it's kinda silly.

And impossible...like the saying goes...

"If it hasn't been done in Rifts, then it shouldn't or cant."

Rolling Bear wrote:Yeah no one is disputing that the CS has psychics that fight, what I'm saying is when the battle first starts no one is going to think that hey maybe only a zapper or only a burster or a mind melter can hurt this guy. They are going to say well damn shoot him with your gun..wait that didn't work, shoot him with your laser rifle, that didn't work, throw a grenade at him, that didn't work. Maybe once they hit the guy with a long range missle and it does nothing then they will most likely call the Psy Battalions. THe cops don't call the S.W.A.T team for regular traffic stops so why would the coalition send their ringers it from the get go I don't think they would.

Well invulnerability doesn't negate the knock-down rules. So the super powered character won't be taking damage, but he will be knocked on his butt by the multiple volleyes of rail-guns, grenades, & missiles being slung at him. I would think that would give the CS enough time to find something that damaged him.

No, Want to know why it would fail? Invulnerable PCs take 1/2 Damage from Particle Beams ( addended in HU Gm's guide and early prints of Villains Unlimited and AU Revised)


there's also poison, Nanoweapons, and psionics still affect invulnerable pcs.


I had an APS Light character with Energy Absorption Pc- she was Totally undefeatable until the CS Psi net Guys sent some mind melters to dominate my PC : )

All in all you would think that they would get a clue long before they borrow a GB Battalion to Volly fire boom gun rounds on him that they might want to call up a psi team or hope that the non exitant Vanguard turns up and hits him with a couple of anti mater spells.

granted, Free Quibeck might just be screwed since they dont even like Psionics.

I can't remember where but I'm sure it says that even Thor could not take out the CS single handed.

As to the question of how long it would take for the CS to realise that normal weapons are not hurting the character, well considering that character would have to take out almost the entire army I'm sure they would work it out before the characters had got through 10% of the army. I mean by the time the characters had taken out hundreds of soldiers (which represent a small fraction of the CS army) surely one psychic would have tried a psychic attack?
Or at least tried to pin one down with some giant robots.

I would love for ten characters to be able to take out the CS but it's not really possible in that way. To take down any government takes the combined effort of thousands and it must be a combination of military, intelligence and politics.

Ishtirru wrote:Wildfire

SN PS would tear off those pa arms one at a time and no way the pa pilots would be able togethor fast enough to get 5 of them togethor to pin him all at once. At least the first few trys. Id say it would take around 15 or so untill a succesfull pin. Thats of course if 5 PA's don't get in each others way while doing so which I don't think would work.

You can't be remotely serious



You are!

A SN PS action of "tearing" off arms counts as a regular punch damage. You'd get 5-8 attacks per melee action. You can't "defensively tear off a PA's arms". You'd be out of actions before you could even take down half of them. Another thing, they take damage from those neuro-maces, at least half normal. I..just can't believe you think that it would stand up...hahaha