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I'm doing a short (2-6 sessions) HU2 story arc where the characters do some dimensional hopping. I was wondering when going to a MDC dimension if it worked out better to convert the HU2 character to match the MDC world, or to convert the MDC world to SDC to match the characters. I have no problem with doing either (actually most of the work for converting MDC to SDC I have done, and the conversion books/skrypers covers the other), my only concern is keeping true to the "feel" of HU2 game. I'm worried that by converting it into Rifts (and inadvertently MDC) it might loss the comic book feel that is important to HU2, and superhero games in general.

Whats the general consensus here on the boards?

I avoid the use of MDC altogether, and strongly, strenuously advocate doing the same.
MDC is completely without value to me. If I need to increase the lethality of the campaign, I can do without laser pistols that obiterate tanks.

agreed. mdc is probably the farthest thing from heroic roleplaying there is.

If you want to keep the HU feel, stick with SDC. If the adventure is a gritty adventure into a dimension not soon forgotten, use MDC.

Thats my take.

I've also never been a fan of MDC in the decade plus that I've played Palladium games. But some of my players enjoy it, so I'm always up for using it.

Also, thanks eveyone for the advice. Its what I was leaning towards.

How bad MDC can get also depends on what the players' powers are.
If they have extra PE and invulnerability and super strength and the like, then they'll be MDC themselves and it could work fairly well. If on the other hand they're CEF and Plant Control and Extra PP types... not so good. And if half the group is one and half is the other... ugh. I'd advise just using SDC all around.

What is this M.D.C. crap you speak of?

There is no such thing in my games, and never will be.

True, Robotech was the last time M.D.C. made sense and was used well.


Not to mention, there were no pistols that could do 40 points of M.D.C. in robotech.

Ranger wrote:Unless they were Giant MDC Pistols.

Or that tiny one that turned into a rifle?



Daniel Stoker

Daniel Stoker wrote:

Ranger wrote:Unless they were Giant MDC Pistols.

Or that tiny one that turned into a rifle?



Daniel Stoker

that one couldn't do 40 Points of M.D.C. in sustained fire could it?

I thought it had a full burst that dumped the clip that could do a wallop, but it can't do that every trigger pull like a Naruni pistol, or even some P-Beam pistols get close.

Ranger wrote:When Rifts put it every where and the BUNNY RABBITS had MDC, they went to far.

"THAT'S NO ORDINARY RABBIT!!!!!!!!"

I can't believe nobody beat me to this...

Ranger wrote:When it came out in Robotech, it made sense (50ft robots and 50 ft zentradi should not be harmed by my .45, no matter how good a shot I am.

How do you reconcile giant superheroes in HUII? A .45 hurts them, although not much admittedly.
I'm not advocating MDC, I'm just pointing where a few flaws lie in the equating giant size to imperviousness.

A Titan may be extremely strong, for example, but a mutant with Supernatural PS can out-power a titan.

When Rifts put it every where and the BUNNY RABBITS had MDC, they went to far.

They had gone too far before that point.
After that point, they went to Hell in a Wheelbarrow.

JTwig wrote:I'm doing a short (2-6 sessions) HU2 story arc where the characters do some dimensional hopping. I was wondering when going to a MDC dimension if it worked out better to convert the HU2 character to match the MDC world, or to convert the MDC world to SDC to match the characters. I have no problem with doing either (actually most of the work for converting MDC to SDC I have done, and the conversion books/skrypers covers the other), my only concern is keeping true to the "feel" of HU2 game. I'm worried that by converting it into Rifts (and inadvertently MDC) it might loss the comic book feel that is important to HU2, and superhero games in general.

Whats the general consensus here on the boards?

As long as you give the PCs time to get new gear and let them see what Mega-damage is like before they experience it firsthand, I don't see a need to convert things either way.

The only difference MDC makes in this type of adventure is extra book keeping. If you want to do the math, use it. If not, then don't.
CES

gadrin wrote:yeah I agree.

BTW Baron, your link to Dan's HU Page is dead.

All of them are. It's still down from his move is my guess. I'm still checking and it hasn't come back up since. See the posts at the end of the HU websites sticky.

I not worried about the lethality or game balance, since most of the characters have powers that will convert into or allow them to inflict MDC. I was just worried about the "feel" of the super-hero game being changed in a MDC, which is more lethal, than most HU2 games. Well, maybe not for the characters since an MDC environment would make them the equivalent to small gods. Even though I run an X-men like game, it still has a distinct, more comic book, feel than your typical Rifts setting.

I'm going to keep everything SDC for the campaing. If anyone has conversions they could send me I would appreciate it. I've already have everything converted, but would love to see what others were thinking and maybe tweak my versions a little.

Thanks

JTwig wrote:I not worried about the lethality or game balance, since most of the characters have powers that will convert into or allow them to inflict MDC. I was just worried about the "feel" of the super-hero game being changed in a MDC, which is more lethal, than most HU2 games. Well, maybe not for the characters since an MDC environment would make them the equivalent to small gods. Even though I run an X-men like game, it still has a distinct, more comic book, feel than your typical Rifts setting.

I'm going to keep everything SDC for the campaing. If anyone has conversions they could send me I would appreciate it. I've already have everything converted, but would love to see what others were thinking and maybe tweak my versions a little.

Thanks

On the other hand, there are plenty of comic book worlds that are extremely lethal.
The Authority, for example...

JTwig wrote:I not worried about the lethality or game balance, since most of the characters have powers that will convert into or allow them to inflict MDC. I was just worried about the "feel" of the super-hero game being changed in a MDC, which is more lethal, than most HU2 games. Well, maybe not for the characters since an MDC environment would make them the equivalent to small gods. Even though I run an X-men like game, it still has a distinct, more comic book, feel than your typical Rifts setting.

Remember too that gods like Thor and Hercules are matched in comics by non-gods like Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Hulk, Juggernaut, The Eternals, and others.
Iron Man has successfully battled Thor, as has the Hulk and Silver Surfer, and Hercules has had humility beaten into him more than once in life.
So, being the equivalent of small gods need not be a bad thing, so long as there are suitable challenges for those characters.

I'm going to keep everything SDC for the campaing. If anyone has conversions they could send me I would appreciate it. I've already have everything converted, but would love to see what others were thinking and maybe tweak my versions a little.

Thanks

For the most part, I converted MDC to SDC point-for-point; I added constant damage modifiers to large scale weapons and energy weapons (so things like light lasers do XD6 +5, while a medium laser does XD6 +8 and so on.); I extensively use AR and PV; for creatures of magic and supernatural beings I modify to incluse the appropriate super powers as natural abilities; in any case where there is a disparity between an SDC version and it's MDC equivlaent, I use the higher of the two values (for example, look at the SDC version of Armour of Ithan vs. the version in the Rifts Main Book).

Sentinel wrote:

JTwig wrote:I not worried about the lethality or game balance, since most of the characters have powers that will convert into or allow them to inflict MDC. I was just worried about the "feel" of the super-hero game being changed in a MDC, which is more lethal, than most HU2 games. Well, maybe not for the characters since an MDC environment would make them the equivalent to small gods. Even though I run an X-men like game, it still has a distinct, more comic book, feel than your typical Rifts setting.

Remember too that gods like Thor and Hercules are matched in comics by non-gods like Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Hulk, Juggernaut, The Eternals, and others.
Iron Man has successfully battled Thor, as has the Hulk and Silver Surfer, and Hercules has had humility beaten into him more than once in life.
So, being the equivalent of small gods need not be a bad thing, so long as there are suitable challenges for those characters.

I'm going to keep everything SDC for the campaing. If anyone has conversions they could send me I would appreciate it. I've already have everything converted, but would love to see what others were thinking and maybe tweak my versions a little.

Thanks

For the most part, I converted MDC to SDC point-for-point; I added constant damage modifiers to large scale weapons and energy weapons (so things like light lasers do XD6 +5, while a medium laser does XD6 +8 and so on.); I extensively use AR and PV; for creatures of magic and supernatural beings I modify to incluse the appropriate super powers as natural abilities; in any case where there is a disparity between an SDC version and it's MDC equivlaent, I use the higher of the two values (for example, look at the SDC version of Armour of Ithan vs. the version in the Rifts Main Book).

My own personal formula is that 1 point of MDC = 2 points of SDC (throwing in AR where appropriate)

That still IMO conveys the sense of power that MD weapons would have over lesser ones -- the SAMAS railgun would do 2D4x10 and even the little Wilk's pistol does 2D6, while the classic 'dead boy' armor would now have 100 SDC and the standard AR for full armor -- but wouldn't be overwhelming.

I've been using the 1 MDC=1 SDC, and have been adding up all the MDC/SDC by location and making that the robot/power armor/vehicle's total SDC (along with a generous AR). As for weapons I've been leaving them as is, mostly because of the range for most weapons in Rifts is much greater than most conventional weapon. I think the standard range for lasers is something like 2000-4000ft, while an AK-47 or M-16 only have ranges of 1200-1600ft. The damage ratings I also leave the same, since they do comparable amounts of damage, but with greater range.

The only thing I've been debating about is if I should give body armor from Rifts books a robotic AR, or use the standard AR for body armors. I think using the robotic (natural) AR rule would stress that the tech level is much greater, but I'm leaning towards using the normal AR rules for body armor to keep everything a little more standardized. Even with the using the normal AR body armor rules, the armor from the various Rifts books are rather advanced.

Uncle Servo wrote:

Sentinel wrote:

JTwig wrote:I not worried about the lethality or game balance, since most of the characters have powers that will convert into or allow them to inflict MDC. I was just worried about the "feel" of the super-hero game being changed in a MDC, which is more lethal, than most HU2 games. Well, maybe not for the characters since an MDC environment would make them the equivalent to small gods. Even though I run an X-men like game, it still has a distinct, more comic book, feel than your typical Rifts setting.

Remember too that gods like Thor and Hercules are matched in comics by non-gods like Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Hulk, Juggernaut, The Eternals, and others.
Iron Man has successfully battled Thor, as has the Hulk and Silver Surfer, and Hercules has had humility beaten into him more than once in life.
So, being the equivalent of small gods need not be a bad thing, so long as there are suitable challenges for those characters.

I'm going to keep everything SDC for the campaing. If anyone has conversions they could send me I would appreciate it. I've already have everything converted, but would love to see what others were thinking and maybe tweak my versions a little.

Thanks

For the most part, I converted MDC to SDC point-for-point; I added constant damage modifiers to large scale weapons and energy weapons (so things like light lasers do XD6 +5, while a medium laser does XD6 +8 and so on.); I extensively use AR and PV; for creatures of magic and supernatural beings I modify to incluse the appropriate super powers as natural abilities; in any case where there is a disparity between an SDC version and it's MDC equivlaent, I use the higher of the two values (for example, look at the SDC version of Armour of Ithan vs. the version in the Rifts Main Book).

My own personal formula is that 1 point of MDC = 2 points of SDC (throwing in AR where appropriate)

That still IMO conveys the sense of power that MD weapons would have over lesser ones -- the SAMAS railgun would do 2D4x10 and even the little Wilk's pistol does 2D6, while the classic 'dead boy' armor would now have 100 SDC and the standard AR for full armor -- but wouldn't be overwhelming.

I try to make comparissons to existing advanced alien technology: these beings have advancements beyond Rifts, so their weapons' damage levels are fine for me. The constant modifiers to E-weapons gives them the extra "oomph" to make them seem particularly dangerous, while still keeping the numbers manageable.
And then, I compare the converted MDC weapon to the SDC AU or AU:GG weapons and take the better of the two values.