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I have two Questions about Cosmo Knights :

- Can Cosmo Knights possess psionics ? In Phase World, It's not said they can but it's not said they can't

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

1. I would rule that they cannot have psionics. they have enough going for them as is!

2. yeah sure. Why not?

Braden, GMPhD wrote:

Great Cthulhu wrote:I have two Questions about Cosmo Knights :

- Can Cosmo Knights possess psionics ? In Phase World, It's not said they can but it's not said they can't

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

1. I would rule that they cannot have psionics. they have enough going for them as is!

2. yeah sure. Why not?

Disagreed with Braden....sort of.

1. Absolutely NOTHING prohibiting them from getting Psionics.
Braden's "NO" Response is a Game Balance Issue, not a Possibility/Impossibility Issue, as far I can see.

In fact, now that I think more on it, Cosmo-Knights are said to lose SKILLS, not ABILITIES.

2. Definitely disagree with Braden here...although I do recognize that Braden is making a somewhat flippant reamark in his answer to the second Question.

In Rifts, precedent has been rather firmly established that Spells/Weapons/Damage/Effects have to SPECIFICALLY say in their Description that they can damage Vampires.

No such descriptor in the description of Cosmo-Knight Energy Blasts; therefore, Vampires are immune to them.

cornholioprime wrote:Braden's "NO" Response is a Game Balance Issue, not a Possibility/Impossibility Issue, as far as I can see.

Yeah. there I go again, always with the game ballance...

and when I say, "sure why not", I mean that it makes sense to me that the defenders of right and justice in the 3 Galaxies, the Guardians of the forge, would be equiped to deal with all kinds of supernatural evil, vampires included.

If you need to justify it, simply say that "cosmic energy" is the same as sunlight.

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?[/quote]


i would say "no", because magic is supposed to be the cosmoknights weakness, and fighting a creature that a cosmoknight can't hurt, will at least make a cosmoknight think when it comes up against a dozen or so vampire intelligences.


but as Braden said, cosmoknights stand for all that is good and just, whereas vampires are evil,so why the cosmoknights unique powers, abilities and weapons can't hurt a vampire is a mystery.

DBX wrote:- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

i would say "no", because magic is supposed to be the cosmoknights weakness, and fighting a creature that a cosmoknight can't hurt, will at least make a cosmoknight think when it comes up against a dozen or so vampire intelligences.


but as Braden said, cosmoknights stand for all that is good and just, whereas vampires are evil,so why the cosmoknights unique powers, abilities and weapons can't hurt a vampire is a mystery.

So then could a cosmo knight be turned into a vampire? Whats everyone's thoughts on that?

Carl

So then could a cosmo knight be turned into a vampire? Whats everyone's thoughts on that?

Carl[/quote]

good question.

if a cosmoknight is turned into a vampire, i would say it loses all the cosmoknight goodies.

IMO: the vampire intelligences have to figure out a way to overcome the cosmic forge influence to be able to keep a cosmoknights powers if they turn it into a vampire.

but because magic is a cosmoknight's weakness, i would say it is open season on cosmoknights for any vampire intelligence, but it would have to be a vampire intelligence not an ordinary vampire. A master vampire like count dracula may also have a chance
someone with something extra to be able to turn a cosomoknight into a vampire.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:Braden's "NO" Response is a Game Balance Issue, not a Possibility/Impossibility Issue, as far as I can see.

Yeah. there I go again, always with the game ballance...

and when I say, "sure why not", I mean that it makes sense to me that the defenders of right and justice in the 3 Galaxies, the Guardians of the forge, would be equiped to deal with all kinds of supernatural evil, vampires included.

If you need to justify it, simply say that "cosmic energy" is the same as sunlight.

Still a House Rule.

Again, throughout Rifts, precedent has been FIRMLY established that any Attack that can hurt/kill a Vampire, has to be SPECIFICALLY stated to do so.

Cosmo Knight Blasts have been give NO special Descriptors of ANY kind; while even the Powers of such Creatures as Gods of Light, Sea Inquisitors and Apok have specific Supernatural creature Damage capability right there in their O.C.C. Description.

Without further evidence or even "clues," Cosmo-Knight Blasts can only be treated as Energy Blasts. And while they can be insanely 0powerful, I'll go out on a limb and make a guess that Creatures that don't even get scratched by Nukes at Ground Zero would probably be able to shrug off a CK Blast, too.

Let's ask the company...

cornholioprime wrote:

Braden, GMPhD wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:Braden's "NO" Response is a Game Balance Issue, not a Possibility/Impossibility Issue, as far as I can see.

Yeah. there I go again, always with the game ballance...

and when I say, "sure why not", I mean that it makes sense to me that the defenders of right and justice in the 3 Galaxies, the Guardians of the forge, would be equiped to deal with all kinds of supernatural evil, vampires included.

If you need to justify it, simply say that "cosmic energy" is the same as sunlight.

Still a House Rule.

Again, throughout Rifts, precedent has been FIRMLY established that any Attack that can hurt/kill a Vampire, has to be SPECIFICALLY stated to do so.

Cosmo Knight Blasts have been give NO special Descriptors of ANY kind; while even the Powers of such Creatures as Gods of Light, Sea Inquisitors and Apok have specific Supernatural creature Damage capability right there in their O.C.C. Description.

Without further evidence or even "clues," Cosmo-Knight Blasts can only be treated as Energy Blasts. And while they can be insanely 0powerful, I'll go out on a limb and make a guess that Creatures that don't even get scratched by Nukes at Ground Zero would probably be able to shrug off a CK Blast, too.

I can't speak for CJ, but not all writers take vampires into consideration when creating such characters classes. In this case I would say its in the hands of the G.M. In most cases a CK will probably crush a vampire if their attacks could hurt it specifically. I would discuss this with my players and take their opinions into consideration.

This is my take: What is a cosmic blast? Well it has to be cosmic energy. What is sunlight, well its sure some type of energy. Is a cosmic blast from a CK pure sunlight? Probably not, but as a GM I might rule their attacks do 1/2 damage to a vampire. Of course I probably wouldn't match up a vampire vs a ck. It would be a lot of vampires vs a ck!!

Just my opinion on the matter, although good points all around.

Carl

Carl Gleba wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Braden, GMPhD wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:Braden's "NO" Response is a Game Balance Issue, not a Possibility/Impossibility Issue, as far as I can see.

Yeah. there I go again, always with the game ballance...

and when I say, "sure why not", I mean that it makes sense to me that the defenders of right and justice in the 3 Galaxies, the Guardians of the forge, would be equiped to deal with all kinds of supernatural evil, vampires included.

If you need to justify it, simply say that "cosmic energy" is the same as sunlight.

Still a House Rule.

Again, throughout Rifts, precedent has been FIRMLY established that any Attack that can hurt/kill a Vampire, has to be SPECIFICALLY stated to do so.

Cosmo Knight Blasts have been give NO special Descriptors of ANY kind; while even the Powers of such Creatures as Gods of Light, Sea Inquisitors and Apok have specific Supernatural creature Damage capability right there in their O.C.C. Description.

Without further evidence or even "clues," Cosmo-Knight Blasts can only be treated as Energy Blasts. And while they can be insanely 0powerful, I'll go out on a limb and make a guess that Creatures that don't even get scratched by Nukes at Ground Zero would probably be able to shrug off a CK Blast, too.

I can't speak for CJ, but not all writers take vampires into consideration when creating such characters classes. In this case I would say its in the hands of the G.M. In most cases a CK will probably crush a vampire if their attacks could hurt it specifically. I would discuss this with my players and take their opinions into consideration.

This is my take: What is a cosmic blast? Well it has to be cosmic energy. What is sunlight, well its sure some type of energy. Is a cosmic blast from a CK pure sunlight? Probably not, but as a GM I might rule their attacks do 1/2 damage to a vampire. Of course I probably wouldn't match up a vampire vs a ck. It would be a lot of vampires vs a ck!!

Just my opinion on the matter, although good points all around.

Carl

Two points about what you said (with me answering the Points that I boldfaced):

1. CJ, of course, was quite aware of Supernatural Creatures, even those with special Immunities, because one of his other Weps in the same Book, the Phase Beamer, SPECIFICALLY states that it does Damage even to Vampires. Likewise his Colombian Anti-Monsters, and his Phantom R.C.Cs. On the other hand, Cosmo-Knight Beams aren't even described as doing any special Damage to even "normal" Supernatural Creatures, let alone such beings as Weres and Vamps.

Personally, if the Beams had been described to have such an effect, then I would say that Vamps could take damage as if they were hit by an Apok or a Sea Inquisitor,

Therefore, we know that we can discount the possibility that Carella was working in some sort of Supernatural Creature "Blind spot" when he Created the Cosmo-Knights. I was completely prepared to consider that possibility until I remembered some of his other Creations.

2. As to the second point that you raised, Kevin makes it quite clear that Energy that doesn't come in the form of Sunlight, does NO damage to the Vampire, as he demonstrated with the Laser/Light/Sunlight Example in Rifts: Vampire Kingdoms.

Cosmo-knights keep racial abilities like smell, sight, and hearing {so, a wolfen would still be able to track be scent}. I don't know about psionics... so far, I haven't had a player try that one. Look it up in the new FAQ.

As for the other, I asked this question and got an answer from the Palladium staff saying the Cosmo-knights are able to harm supernatural/ magical beings because they are themselves supernatural beings.

A lot of interesting comments.

For the psionics, I can suppose Cosmo Knights retain their ability (even if they lose their skills). So, I think I will allow my players to throw the dices to check if they can have minors or majors psionics.

For the vampires, it's true it must be specified if an attack can damage them but the concept of cosmic blast considered made of cosmic energy seem very relevant (after all the sun is a star). For the cosmic weapon, I'm not sure it may be considered as a magic weapon.

1) No, of course not...as stated previously. (subject to GM approval however)

2) Yes, cosmic energy is a universal medium. Nearly all manner of matter can be deatomized by harnessed cosmic power. The Cosmic forge (said to have created the galaxies and such) wields that very same energy...and IT cannot harm a meer vampire? I think not. As GMs, it is up to us to "fill in the blanks", as they may come to be known.

Where is Doom when you need him....prolly beating up some poor innocent kids...

Syndicate wrote:1) No, of course not...as stated previously. (subject to GM approval however)

2) Yes, cosmic energy is a universal medium. Nearly all manner of matter can be deatomized by harnessed cosmic power. The Cosmic forge (said to have created the galaxies and such) wields that very same energy...and IT cannot harm a meer vampire? I think not. As GMs, it is up to us to "fill in the blanks", as they may come to be known.

Where is Doom when you need him....prolly beating up some poor innocent kids...

I'd consider a cosmic weapon on par with a magical or rune weapon... it is, after all mdae up from the living essence of the knight which created it.

Syndicate wrote:1) No, of course not...as stated previously. (subject to GM approval however)

Nearly all manner of matter can be deatomized by harnessed cosmic power. The Cosmic forge (said to have created the galaxies and such) wields that very same energy...and IT cannot harm a meer vampire? I think not. As GMs, it is up to us to "fill in the blanks", as they may come to be known.

Where is Doom when you need him....prolly beating up some poor innocent kids...

1). It doesn't matter how much POWER that you have at your disposal when you fight a Supernatural Creature.

It matters if the Power in Question is "allowed" by the Rules of Magic for that Supernatural Creature to HARM it.

By that token, it doesn't matter if you have a Rail Gun, the Blast of a Cosmo-Knight, the Forge itself, or even the combined firepower of the Artifact AND the Robotech Marduk Fleet at your disposal.

If the Energy Source in question has NO descriptor stating that it can harm otherwise invulnerable Supernatural Creatures like Vampires and Weres, then Damage simply can't be done to the Creature.

2) Yes, Cosmic Energy IS a Universal Constant. But that's not what Magic is made of.

Discussions about Electrons and Atoms simply don't apply when dealing with Vampires...unless, of course, those Subatomic Particles are in the form of Blood, Silver, Wood, Soil of the Homeland, Garlic, Water, or Sunlight.

3) NOWHERE is the Cosmic Forge described as an actual Supernatural Force, not even by Carella, who REALLY likes to muddy the waters in this area -he has in the past used the word "Supernatural" to decribe everything from Psionics to Heroes Unlimited type Super Powers, whereas virtually all other Authors have made the distinction between the Three Forces.

The Cosmic Forge manipulates Mattter, Energy, and Spacetime. It has NEVER been shown to manipulate, or even control, Arcane Forces; it has been RUMORED to do so, but no "hard" evidence exists that it has ever done so.

(For the record, my personal conjecture is that this is the reason that it doesn't select True Supernatural Beings to become Cosmo-Knights; because in Canon True Supernatural Creatures usually cannot be modified except by other Magic, and powerful Magics at that.)

Awesome Powers to be sure........but Magic it ain't, and an Old One it ain't -and I suspect that even it has nowhere near the Power of those dudes......

Here are some questions to ponder when thinking about this issue:

1. Could a vampire survive being at ground zero for a nuclear explosion?

2. How much heat needs to be generated before a vampire takes fire damage from a non-fire energy attack?

3. How much heat does a Cosmo-blast generate?

4. Is the Cosmic Forge a Supernatural entity/whatever? If so, then the Cosmo-knight should be considered a creature of magic, and its attacks magical in nature. If not, then look to questions 1-3. I would personally categorize the Forge as an Entity, even to the point of allowing it to contact and sponsor Shifters if it so chose.

kdyal wrote:1. Could a vampire survive being at ground zero for a nuclear explosion?

Yes they could. Kevin states so in the introduction of Vampire Kingdoms.

2. How much heat needs to be generated before a vampire takes fire damage from a non-fire energy attack??

Normal, non-magic fire does no damage unless they are staked through the heart. Therefore, it could be a billion Kelvin, and they would be fine.

3. How much heat does a Cosmo-blast generate?

Apparently, none. Or more specifically, no more than can be generated by a technological, MDC weapon. So, in the case of plasma, enough to dissolve atomic bonds.

Or, if you want to be kind of kinky... Cosmic Blasts are room temperature.

4. Is the Cosmic Forge a Supernatural entity/whatever?

This is probably the big deciding factor. What is the natrure of the Cosmic Forge? If it is just a big computer, and the powers it bestows are no different form building a cyborg...then vampires can tear CosmoKnights to bits. But if it's God...then Cosmic Blasts are divine, and will turn vamps into powder in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, no one knows. This issue is left up to GM's. My personal feeling it that is the God of the Three Galaxies...existing on faith alone, which is why no one will ever find it. Your mileage may differ.

cornholioprime wrote:Again, throughout Rifts, precedent has been FIRMLY established that any Attack that can hurt/kill a Vampire, has to be SPECIFICALLY stated to do so.

Where's that? Book and page if you don't mind.

Joey Jo Jo Jr wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:Again, throughout Rifts, precedent has been FIRMLY established that any Attack that can hurt/kill a Vampire, has to be SPECIFICALLY stated to do so.

Where's that? Book and page if you don't mind.

Geez Louise, man.

1. The Phrase "firmly established throughout Rifts" pretty much means that you'll have to read through perhaps many of the Rifts Books.

2. Even many Gods and and Forces of Light have SPECIFIC wording that allows some of their Special Attacks to harm Vampires, such as the Persian God Ahura Mazda, the Apok RCC, the Phantom RCC, the Sea Inquisitor OCC, and the Wormwood Monk OCC, just to name a few. The Ability is explicitly mentioned so many times thorughout the Rifts Texts that it is easily inferred that one may logically assume that any Attacks that do not have such a description, can't cause damage to a Vampire.

cornholioprime wrote:

Joey Jo Jo Jr wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:Again, throughout Rifts, precedent has been FIRMLY established that any Attack that can hurt/kill a Vampire, has to be SPECIFICALLY stated to do so.

Where's that? Book and page if you don't mind.

Geez Louise, man.

1. The Phrase "firmly established throughout Rifts" pretty much means that you'll have to read through perhaps many of the Rifts Books.

2. Even many Gods and and Forces of Light have SPECIFIC wording that allows some of their Special Attacks to harm Vampires, such as the Persian God Ahura Mazda, the Apok RCC, the Phantom RCC, the Sea Inquisitor OCC, and the Wormwood Monk OCC, just to name a few. The Ability is explicitly mentioned so many times thorughout the Rifts Texts that it is easily inferred that one may logically assume that any Attacks that do not have such a description, can't cause damage to a Vampire.

I know I'm being pedantic (and quite deliberatly too) but...logic ain't got snot to do with it or Rifts for that matter.


In any case I tend to agree, they probably wouldn't be hurt by it.

Great Cthulhu wrote:I have two Questions about Cosmo Knights :

- Can Cosmo Knights possess psionics ? In Phase World, It's not said they can but it's not said they can't

As creatures who have been built atom-by-atom to serve the Cosmic Forge, Cosmo Knights only have the powers and skills mentioned in their description, which means no psionics, no magic, and no racial powers, with the possible exception of purely anatomical abilities (e.g. bonuses from having four arms, a tail, wings, etc.).

Somehow Fallen Knights (and only Fallen Knights) are able to acquire magic or psionic powers, but how or why this is possible is unexplained.

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

They seem like supernatural/magical effects to me, so yes. Bare hands should work too.

This splitting of hairs is fun


So if sunlight is one way to kill a vamp, does it have to be the sunlight from a yellow star? Like our sun. What about a blue dwarf, red super giant, or white dwarf? Is that sunlight doable, or would vamps in those system be pretty much invulnerable...to a degree.

Carl

Carl Gleba wrote:This splitting of hairs is fun


So if sunlight is one way to kill a vamp, does it have to be the sunlight from a yellow star? Like our sun. What about a blue dwarf, red super giant, or white dwarf? Is that sunlight doable, or would vamps in those system be pretty much invulnerable...to a degree.

Carl

but it can't be a STAR, it has to be a SUN

Carl Gleba wrote:This splitting of hairs is fun


So if sunlight is one way to kill a vamp, does it have to be the sunlight from a yellow star? Like our sun. What about a blue dwarf, red super giant, or white dwarf? Is that sunlight doable, or would vamps in those system be pretty much invulnerable...to a degree.

Carl

They are MAGICALLY vulnerable to the natural light of a Star.

There is absolutely no mention in Rifts Canon as to whether or not Vamps would be vulnerable to the light of Stars other than Medium Yellow Stars (such as our own), but they ARE vulnerable to the Sun in different Dimensions and other parts of the Rifts Universe.

There is an HLS Adventure in the Rifts: Three Galaxies Sourcebook, page 31; and as to Stars in other Dimensions (read: Game Settings), they have Vampires -and Sunlight -in Palladium, do they not???

By the way: there ARE other things to consider here, such as the fact that Stars of types other than Yellow Dwarfs are not genarally believed to be able to support Life as we know it, ergo no food supply for a Vamp in the first place........

Tinker Dragoon wrote:

Great Cthulhu wrote:I have two Questions about Cosmo Knights :

- Can Cosmo Knights possess psionics ? In Phase World, It's not said they can but it's not said they can't

As creatures who have been built atom-by-atom to serve the Cosmic Forge, Cosmo Knights only have the powers and skills mentioned in their description, which means no psionics, no magic, and no racial powers, with the possible exception of purely anatomical abilities (e.g. bonuses from having four arms, a tail, wings, etc.).

Somehow Fallen Knights (and only Fallen Knights) are able to acquire magic or psionic powers, but how or why this is possible is unexplained.

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

They seem like supernatural/magical effects to me, so yes. Bare hands should work too.

Based on what Tinker Dragoon has dug up, I will now amend one of my Answers -but STILL disagree with him on another point.

Tinker Dragoon has found the info that Fallen Cosmos can learn Magic (or Psionics; one or the other).

Logically, then, we must assume that if Fallen Knights can, then "Regular" Knights cannot. It's probably a Game Balance Issue that likely has no "In-Game" explanation that would make much sense.

However, I am forced to disagree with Tinker Dragoon on his belief that Cosmos can cause damage to Vamps; again, the reason is that throughout the Rifts Books, the Authors have felt it necessary to specifically state when a Creature or Weapon can do so.....which logically indicates that any such Creature, Weapon, etc., who does not have such a provision stated in its description (and who is not stated to be either a Creature of Magic or a True Supernatural Creature), cannot do so.

cornholioprime wrote:

Carl Gleba wrote:This splitting of hairs is fun


So if sunlight is one way to kill a vamp, does it have to be the sunlight from a yellow star? Like our sun. What about a blue dwarf, red super giant, or white dwarf? Is that sunlight doable, or would vamps in those system be pretty much invulnerable...to a degree.

Carl

They are MAGICALLY vulnerable to the natural light of a Star.

There is absolutely no mention in Rifts Canon as to whether or not Vamps would be vulnerable to the light of Stars other than Medium Yellow Stars (such as our own), but they ARE vulnerable to the Sun in different Dimensions and other parts of the Rifts Universe.

There is an HLS Adventure in the Rifts: Three Galaxies Sourcebook, page 31; and as to Stars in other Dimensions (read: Game Settings), they have Vampires -and Sunlight -in Palladium, do they not???

By the way: there ARE other things to consider here, such as the fact that Stars of types other than Yellow Dwarfs are not genarally believed to be able to support Life as we know it, ergo no food supply for a Vamp in the first place........

Yeah I'm somewhat familiar with that HLS

So my point is with the variety of stars and all the "Cosmic Energy" they radiate why then wouldn't a CK blast do damage to a vampire? Unless your subscribing to the "blade movie's" theory where its only ultra violet light that does damage to the vampires?

I can see the blast doing some sort of damage to a vampire. Game wise it might get unbalancing, but hey, its cosmic energy which I believe would have some of the properties of sunlight. As a game master I might apply half damage or even quarter damage. To dismiss it because it wasn't written, and therefore "not cannon" is something that I can't agree with.

Carl

Zerebus wrote:Perhaps the cosmic blast question should be a two parter:

1. Can it damage vampires?

and

2. Can it obliterate vampires?

If it's effectively concentrated sunlight, then shouldn't it obliterate them?

No.

To paraphrase Kevin from Rifts: Vampire Kingdoms, Energy that approximates Sunlight just isn't the same for purpses of damaging Vampires; likewise, no matter how similar Cosmo Energy may or may not be to Sunlight, it simply isn't, and therefore can't harm the Vamp.

When you try to mix Physics with Magic, you're bound to get yourself in all sorts of "trouble..."

Carl Gleba wrote:

cornholioprime wrote:

Carl Gleba wrote:This splitting of hairs is fun


So if sunlight is one way to kill a vamp, does it have to be the sunlight from a yellow star? Like our sun. What about a blue dwarf, red super giant, or white dwarf? Is that sunlight doable, or would vamps in those system be pretty much invulnerable...to a degree.

Carl

They are MAGICALLY vulnerable to the natural light of a Star.

There is absolutely no mention in Rifts Canon as to whether or not Vamps would be vulnerable to the light of Stars other than Medium Yellow Stars (such as our own), but they ARE vulnerable to the Sun in different Dimensions and other parts of the Rifts Universe.

There is an HLS Adventure in the Rifts: Three Galaxies Sourcebook, page 31; and as to Stars in other Dimensions (read: Game Settings), they have Vampires -and Sunlight -in Palladium, do they not???

By the way: there ARE other things to consider here, such as the fact that Stars of types other than Yellow Dwarfs are not genarally believed to be able to support Life as we know it, ergo no food supply for a Vamp in the first place........

Yeah I'm somewhat familiar with that HLS

So my point is with the variety of stars and all the "Cosmic Energy" they radiate why then wouldn't a CK blast do damage to a vampire? Unless your subscribing to the "blade movie's" theory where its only ultra violet light that does damage to the vampires?

I can see the blast doing some sort of damage to a vampire. Game wise it might get unbalancing, but hey, its cosmic energy which I believe would have some of the properties of sunlight. As a game master I might apply half damage or even quarter damage. To dismiss it because it wasn't written, and therefore "not cannon" is something that I can't agree with.

Carl

C'mon, Carl, you're starting to frighten me a little.

In Hollywood, they have all sorts of Pseudo-Science (Crapola in my opinion) as to why Magical Creatures respond to the substances that they do in Folklore.

In Rifts, Creatures and Objects of Magic respond to (my informal name for it) the Rules of Magic. Which doesn't necessarily have to make ANY sense on the Physical Level at all -and often doesn't.

Not to open up an Argument with jesterzzn again, but a Nuclear Detonation produces many times the light output of our own Sun, in virtually ALL of the same frequencies. Nukes are also said to put out virtually all of the energetic particles of the Sun as well.

There's NO possible way to explain how a Vamp can be wholly unaffected by the 5-15,000,000 Candela output of a Nuke but be wholly destroyed by "mere" 1,000,000 Candela Sunlight...EXCEPT by Magic.

For that matter, just about ALL of the (Rifts) Vampire's Powers can only be explained by Magic as well......

In Rifts, Creatures and Objects of Magic respond to (my informal name for it) the Rules of Magic. Which doesn't necessarily have to make ANY sense on the Physical Level at all -and often doesn't.

That I can agree with. But I still think the Cosmis Blast would still do some damage to a vampire

I'll just make it cannon in the next book I write

Carl

Carl Gleba wrote:

In Rifts, Creatures and Objects of Magic respond to (my informal name for it) the Rules of Magic. Which doesn't necessarily have to make ANY sense on the Physical Level at all -and often doesn't.

That I can agree with. But I still think the Cosmis Blast would still do some damage to a vampire

I'll just make it cannon in the next book I write

Carl

Yes..so we can end this thread..PLease!!!!!
For the Love of the Forge's flames please end this interminable fan-boy rant fest!!!!
Once it's in official print, then people can just let this debate die!

My own two-creds worth; I wouldn't have the blast atomize the vamps, but it would definately hurt them....If nothing else, it would knock them into instant torpor, and the vamps regeneration would take 100X's longer (yes, days and even weeks to recover)!
But hey what do I know? I'm just a grunt that's been playing the game since it was FIRST published!

So have I, buddy!

Carl Gleba wrote:

In Rifts, Creatures and Objects of Magic respond to (my informal name for it) the Rules of Magic. Which doesn't necessarily have to make ANY sense on the Physical Level at all -and often doesn't.

That I can agree with. But I still think the Cosmis Blast would still do some damage to a vampire

I'll just make it cannon in the next book I write

Carl

Hey, when it becomes Canon, that's what I'll quote when asked for a Canon Answer. I'm for the "truth" wherever it leads.

Of course, I'd personally appreciate it if you confirm the Damage Type for Cosmo-Knights with KevSim BEFORE you put it into print.

Don't you go all Carella on me, too........

Carl Gleba wrote:

In Rifts, Creatures and Objects of Magic respond to (my informal name for it) the Rules of Magic. Which doesn't necessarily have to make ANY sense on the Physical Level at all -and often doesn't.

That I can agree with. But I still think the Cosmis Blast would still do some damage to a vampire

I'll just make it cannon in the next book I write

Carl

Go for it Carl. How goes the new book(s) by the by

Joey Jo Jo Jr wrote:

Carl Gleba wrote:

In Rifts, Creatures and Objects of Magic respond to (my informal name for it) the Rules of Magic. Which doesn't necessarily have to make ANY sense on the Physical Level at all -and often doesn't.

That I can agree with. But I still think the Cosmis Blast would still do some damage to a vampire

I'll just make it cannon in the next book I write

Carl

Go for it Carl. How goes the new book(s) by the by

Starting a new book always seems to take a while, but the first chapter on how Cosmo-Knights thump on Vampires is already done (Sorry cornholioprime, I couldn't resist )

I can't give out any details, but it is starting off pretty good so far. I have several pages of notes that I took while reading the appropiate material. So I should have enough to keep me busy for a while.

Carl

That might be the best bet, HR a clarification. I'm going to go with the Cosmic Forge being an Entity, which makes the Cosmo-Knight a kind of witch...
But anyway, because the Forge is magic, the Knight is magic, and its blasts can damage vampires.

And I would also rule that psionics are not lost, as there is no way that a Knight could travel incognito among its kindred if they are all psionic...

However, I would include an EXP penalty of 10%, as they would not be as focused in order to maintain their native powers (and to somewhat balance this choice...)

Or is it, "Viva la HR?" I don't do French very often or well...

AdeptPaladin wrote:Here's a thing that will through you for a loop...

If sunlight kills vamps, and the sun is effectively a star. If on other planets, that selfsame vamp is affected by that planet's sun.. why don't vamps get toasty from starlight?

Or from the moon, which is essentially reflected sunlight.

Moonlight = starlight = sunlight.

Vamps should never be out in the open, by that token.

For the EXACT same reason that you can't kill a Vampire with a Sunlamp, or the most ultra-realistic Motion Picture capture of the Sun coming up.

The Rules of Magic for (Rifts) Vampires.

If Rifts Earth was set up like the ending of the Book "2010" (where at the end, the Lords of the Galaxy's Monolith caused Jupiter to ignite into a second Sun in the Solar System), and Jupiter -a second Sun -was too far away from Earth to be considered anything more than "just" another Star in the sky, then Rifts Vamps would be unaffected by even that.

Carl Gleba wrote:

Joey Jo Jo Jr wrote:

Carl Gleba wrote:

In Rifts, Creatures and Objects of Magic respond to (my informal name for it) the Rules of Magic. Which doesn't necessarily have to make ANY sense on the Physical Level at all -and often doesn't.

That I can agree with. But I still think the Cosmis Blast would still do some damage to a vampire

I'll just make it cannon in the next book I write

Carl

Go for it Carl. How goes the new book(s) by the by

Starting a new book always seems to take a while, but the first chapter on how Cosmo-Knights thump on Vampires is already done (Sorry cornholioprime, I couldn't resist )

I can't give out any details, but it is starting off pretty good so far. I have several pages of notes that I took while reading the appropiate material. So I should have enough to keep me busy for a while.

Carl

Sweet, well I hope it just flows out your fingertips at some ridiculous rate, I really like you others, and can't wait for more!

AdeptPaladin wrote:Here's a thing that will through you for a loop...

If sunlight kills vamps, and the sun is effectively a star. If on other planets, that selfsame vamp is affected by that planet's sun.. why don't vamps get toasty from starlight?

Or from the moon, which is essentially reflected sunlight.

Moonlight = starlight = sunlight.

Vamps should never be out in the open, by that token.

Moonlight is reflected sunlight. The reflection causes the loss of the "positive energy" that destroy the motivating power and structure of a vamp.

As for starlight...any vamp within a certain number of AU of any star will be destroyed - assuming (s)he allowed him or herslef to be exposed to it's direct light.

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Borast wrote:

AdeptPaladin wrote:Here's a thing that will through you for a loop...

If sunlight kills vamps, and the sun is effectively a star. If on other planets, that selfsame vamp is affected by that planet's sun.. why don't vamps get toasty from starlight?

Or from the moon, which is essentially reflected sunlight.

Moonlight = starlight = sunlight.

Vamps should never be out in the open, by that token.

Moonlight is reflected sunlight. The reflection causes the loss of the "positive energy" that destroy the motivating power and structure of a vamp.

As for starlight...any vamp within a certain number of AU of any star will be destroyed - assuming (s)he allowed him or herslef to be exposed to it's direct light.

How many AU? Does it matter what kind of star it is (O, B, A, F, G, K, M; for the record our sun is considered a class G) for that matter?

A class G2V.

In any case, I'd say at the point that the star ceases to dominate the sky when up would be when a vampire could walk about without worrying when the "sun" is up.

AdeptPaladin wrote:Fair 'nuff answer.

Just some other questions...

1) If the ability "Galactic Awareness" provides the skill "Navigation: Space" at 82%.. why do they have it listed as an O.C.C. Skill?

2) Is the 35+ PS attribute classified as supernatural?

1) perhaps so they can show other, non-CosmoKnights, how to get to Sesame World; where as their inate skill is simply something that they know and cannot acuratly describe. Kind of like how the smart math kids at school could always cut corners and whiz through problems to get to the right answer, then never be able to tell me just how they did it.

2) Yes. Oh yes....

Great Cthulhu wrote:I have two Questions about Cosmo Knights :

- Can Cosmo Knights possess psionics ? In Phase World, It's not said they can but it's not said they can't

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

If they are a naturally psychic race, yes. (Like the Noro) Then they get to keep thier psychic powers. But if they were a human before the forge assimilated them. They lose it.

Sure, they can harm the vamps... but its just going to heal it nearly immediatly. Just like a MD laser rifle. Or a magic spell. It will harm them but not for long.

AdeptPaladin wrote:

Great Cthulhu wrote:I have two Questions about Cosmo Knights :

- Can Cosmo Knights possess psionics ? In Phase World, It's not said they can but it's not said they can't

- Can Cosmo Knights damage vampires with their cosmic blasts and cosmic weapons ?

While trolling the Old FAQ, I found this nugget:

103. In Rifts-rpg can a Cosmo Knights cosmic blast be used against vampires and undead as a holy weapon?
Answer: It cannot.

KS has spoken ^_^

You mean Rodney "watch me pull an answer out of my ass" Stott has spoken.

In the interest of keeping the thread alive...

I disagree.

Cosmic blast should be able to hurt vampires.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:Cosmic blast should be able to hurt vampires.

Because its 1/10th true sunlight

Brades wrote

and when I say, "sure why not", I mean that it makes sense to me that the defenders of right and justice in the 3 Galaxies, the Guardians of the forge, would be equiped to deal with all kinds of supernatural evil, vampires included.

Well i have to disagree with the part about Cosmo Knights being able to damage vampires with their cosmic blasts. Cosmic blasts are fine for most opponents, including spaceships!, but i see nothing in their description that even suggests they can damage vampires. "cosmic" energy is not the same as sunlight, it could be, but it could also be the same as moonlight, harmonic disruptions, black holes etc. In my opinion a cosmic energy blast is just another form of ordinary energy blast along the same lines as a laser or ion blast - energy
The guardians of the Forge as u put it are equipped to handle vampires. They start out with the lore Demons & monsters skill which should give them insight on how to battle vampires and they have incredible supernatural strength which inflicts HP dam to vampires. So all in all they kick ass.
As for psionic abilities i agree with Braden, game balance is ultimately important. If you allow players to keep their psionic powers (minor, major or master) when they become cosmo knights during play or when they roll up a character it will create problems. By what i have been reading so far in this forum chances are that very soon u will be running a game where cosmo knight "started out as" bursters, zappers, mindmelters etc and thats ridiculous, they are way too powerful already.
In my opinion a character can have minor, maybe major psionic abilities at max with all the usual penalties (skills). And with the usual percentage applicable to the original race. Like 25% for a human and for example 0% for the Catyr race.

c ya

Hi there!

Cosmic blasts can be turboed by spending PPE.

Therefore it is magic.

Magic damage hurts vampires.

QED.

Adios
KLM

hi again
wrong, i disagree (yeah i know again)
In my opinion its not a magic ability just because they can be boosted by spending PPE, its simply a known game term, thats why they use PPE, might have been "cosmic" points, Chi or just about anything but why complicate the system?

c ya