Why do you think Rifts Africa is the Worst worldbook?

[gaby]

Here are my Reasons.

1)Africa is too big a contionent to cover in only one Book.

2)They did not say any thing about African Gods.

Tell me your Reasons...

[RainOfSteel]

Here we go again . . .

Africa certainly does look like the poor put-upon worldbook.

The Apocalypse Demon and the Gods seem underpowered in comparison to what comes later.

The Phoenix Empire information is quite thin.

The other sections are equally thin.

The whole book is quite short in comparison to the size of its topic.

I suppose we can call it, "Africa: Worldbook, Interrupted."

[Killer Cyborg]

Here are my Reasons.

1)Africa is too big a contionent to cover in only one Book.

2)They did not say any thing about African Gods.

Tell me your Reasons...

I don't think it's the worst worldbook.
-I like the plot about the Four Horsemen
-I like that they didn't fill the book with MDC Bushmen and MDC Safari Hunters and other stupid cliches.
-I don't particularly care about the African Gods.
-I agree that they could have made more than one worldbook on Africa... but I don't really care since we still haven't found our way over there.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Here are my Reasons.

1)Africa is too big a contionent to cover in only one Book.

2)They did not say any thing about African Gods.

Tell me your Reasons...

I don't think it's the worst worldbook.
-I like the plot about the Four Horsemen
-I like that they didn't fill the book with MDC Bushmen and MDC Safari Hunters and other stupid cliches.
-I don't particularly care about the African Gods.
-I agree that they could have made more than one worldbook on Africa... but I don't really care since we still haven't found our way over there.

Very happy to say, agreed on all accounts.

I'm suddenly reminded of the "More World Information" topic...Africa is principally nothing but World Information...and look how it was/is recieved.

And BTW, Kevin states several times in Rifts: Africa that the continent is too large to cover in one book.

~ Josh

[Mech-Viper Prime]

i think its a good book, to start with now, i'm just waiting for it to be finished

[Sentinel]

It would have been nice to have more information about the idigenous peoples, animals, and better maps.
The Egyptian Pantheons could have been put in Conversion Book II and so could the Four Horsemen.

[Jefffar]

It would have been nice to have more information about the idigenous peoples, animals, and better maps.
The Egyptian Pantheons could have been put in Conversion Book II and so could the Four Horsemen.

Conversion book II was made 8 or 10 years later.

[Kalinda]

It's not the best, but it's not the worst either. I would have liked less metaplot and more world info myself.

[KLM]

Yeah, the same I fear for Europe...

Adios
KLM

[Prince Cherico]

The book was not palladiums best stuff
that said it was still better then rifts england

[Sentinel]

It's not the best, but it's not the worst either. I would have liked less metaplot and more world info myself.

You could say that about a lot of the books.

[Zer0 Kay]

So has anyone said anything about not covering any of the mystic places in Africa... or at least very few of them. Was the Congo even mentioned? I mean geez come-on it is supposed to be the cradle of man.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

So has anyone said anything about not covering any of the mystic places in Africa... or at least very few of them. Was the Congo even mentioned? I mean geez come-on it is supposed to be the cradle of man.

yeah a whole 4-5 paragraphs not much

[Zer0 Kay]

So has anyone said anything about not covering any of the mystic places in Africa... or at least very few of them. Was the Congo even mentioned? I mean geez come-on it is supposed to be the cradle of man.

yeah a whole 4-5 paragraphs not much

On which part or was that all of it together? The mystic places, the congo and cradle of man?

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm suddenly reminded of the "More World Information" topic...Africa is principally nothing but World Information...and look how it was/is recieved.

And BTW, Kevin states several times in Rifts: Africa that the continent is too large to cover in one book.

~ Josh

yeah just a little more then the world view in the RUE or RMB, south america and china got better coverage

[Mech-Viper Prime]

So has anyone said anything about not covering any of the mystic places in Africa... or at least very few of them. Was the Congo even mentioned? I mean geez come-on it is supposed to be the cradle of man.

yeah a whole 4-5 paragraphs not much

On which part or was that all of it together? The mystic places, the congo and cradle of man?

the congo, its just sad

[Zer0 Kay]

So has anyone said anything about not covering any of the mystic places in Africa... or at least very few of them. Was the Congo even mentioned? I mean geez come-on it is supposed to be the cradle of man.

yeah a whole 4-5 paragraphs not much

On which part or was that all of it together? The mystic places, the congo and cradle of man?

the congo, its just sad

:shock: four or five paragraphs... isn't that like a record for Africa? It must be one of the best covered areas outside of Phoenix Empire

[Shades of Eternity]

I ain't going there, I've posted my africa rant enough times.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

So has anyone said anything about not covering any of the mystic places in Africa... or at least very few of them. Was the Congo even mentioned? I mean geez come-on it is supposed to be the cradle of man.

yeah a whole 4-5 paragraphs not much

On which part or was that all of it together? The mystic places, the congo and cradle of man?

the congo, its just sad

:shock: four or five paragraphs... isn't that like a record for Africa? It must be one of the best covered areas outside of Phoenix Empire

that is saying alot 13 pages total and since 3 1/2 pages is just about it text for it,rest is vechiles and the big bad dragon

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I ain't going there, I've posted my africa rant enough times.

hehe, its just our way of saying finish africa please

[Sureshot]

Myself it's not so much the content which I found to be weak in many areas it was the RCCs. Most of them are not allowed or not will armor or use any modern weapons. They also had no real abilities to compensate for that. They are interesting rccs but toast in an mdc setting. No one i knew wanted to take any of the rccs from that book not unless he was the rare individual who wore armor. For myself it ranks a close second as the worst Rifts book. England is in first place.

[glitterboy2098]

I ain't going there, I've posted my africa rant enough times.

hehe, its just our way of saying finish africa please

just START Africa!

[Kalinda]

It's not the best, but it's not the worst either. I would have liked less metaplot and more world info myself.

You could say that about a lot of the books.

Some of the other books have that problem, but Africa is one of the worst. (Not counting SoT of course.)

Psyscape would be the other major offender, with fewer pages devoted to describing the city of Psyscape then were devoted to describing Psi-cola.

[Kagashi]

2)They did not say any thing about African Gods.

...

Good. Its bad enough that the Egyptian gods came back. I dont like steriotypes.

That being said, the NPE was a cool country (although I find it wierd that its borders are exactly over 4 countires from today's world). A country of demons rocks! I still think they are one of the most underestimated threats on the Earth.

Africa intruduced the coolest magic ever, necromancy! How does that suck?

Africa is indeed big though. They could have done much better with using most of that space.

[Kagashi]

Africa intruduced the coolest magic ever, necromancy! How does that suck?

Buy the book of magic, mystic russia, and adventures on the high seas on the same day, then ask that question again.

The book of magic only covers spells and I dont play Palladium Fantasy. So what that you have a list of spells? Necromancy's coolest feature is the union with the dead and that is not in the BoM. Anyway, Mystic Russia did not exist at the time Africa came out, thus the silly litte word INTRODUCED (although the Russian Necromancer is a better OCC and the picture is MUCH cooler in MR).

So, my question remains, how does that suck?

[Kagashi]

It's not the best, but it's not the worst either. I would have liked less metaplot and more world info myself.

You could say that about a lot of the books.

Some of the other books have that problem, but Africa is one of the worst. (Not counting SoT of course.)

Psyscape would be the other major offender, with fewer pages devoted to describing the city of Psyscape then were devoted to describing Psi-cola.

I like "metaplots". How cool would Star Wars be if you only knew that there was an Empire, what a Jedi was, and had stats on a giant "laser"? Storyline is much needed.

Now, these stories prolly have no place in a setting book, but Palladium did not have Adventure books back then, so how can you fault that?

[Sentinel]

It's not the best, but it's not the worst either. I would have liked less metaplot and more world info myself.

You could say that about a lot of the books.

Some of the other books have that problem, but Africa is one of the worst. (Not counting SoT of course.)

Psyscape would be the other major offender, with fewer pages devoted to describing the city of Psyscape then were devoted to describing Psi-cola.

I like "metaplots". How cool would Star Wars be if you only knew that there was an Empire, what a Jedi was, and had stats on a giant "laser"? Storyline is much needed.

The only storyline needed is my own. The gamebooks should only provide the tools of play and the elements of the setting: I'll make stories and NPCs and other characters.
I don't want to play George Lucas' Star Wars: I want to run and play my own world using Star Wars as a game system (for example: I actually prefer Palladium to Star Wars, West End or D20).

If I want meta-plots, I'll read a book.

Now, these stories prolly have no place in a setting book, but Palladium did not have Adventure books back then, so how can you fault that?

[Kalinda]

It's not the best, but it's not the worst either. I would have liked less metaplot and more world info myself.

You could say that about a lot of the books.

Some of the other books have that problem, but Africa is one of the worst. (Not counting SoT of course.)

Psyscape would be the other major offender, with fewer pages devoted to describing the city of Psyscape then were devoted to describing Psi-cola.

I like "metaplots". How cool would Star Wars be if you only knew that there was an Empire, what a Jedi was, and had stats on a giant "laser"? Storyline is much needed.

Now, these stories prolly have no place in a setting book, but Palladium did not have Adventure books back then, so how can you fault that?

I prefer to get the world info, then come up with my own plots. If I want the plot all laid out for me I'll read a book or watch a movie.

[Blue Eyes]

greetings all

well i also have to say that i really like the africa world book. our game group has played this continent intensively both the build-up/coming of the horsemen, the gathering of heroes and the guerilla war against 2 of the 4 demons (War & Pestilence) and the aftermath fighting the insane Rama-Set. All of these 3 phases had countless smaller adventures and subplots attached to them invilving local skimishes, witches, drought and other climate problems, necromancers, agents from the phoenix empire, temples and cults, the congo, splugorth minions from the ivory coast, the horune pirates and on and on it goes.

the player characters chose to use characters specific to the continent, but also included a dragon, an atlantean undead slayer and later in the game during the gathering of heroes also characters from europe (germany, england, poland etc). The campaign was one of the best and most fun i have run and even had several cool twists coming from the players themselves, as for example when a player (had a human Priest of Anhur) switched sides during the war and became one of the other player characters most hated enemies.

All in all i like what Rifts Africa has to offer, much world information (even more would have been nice - but the book actually recommends reading other books about the continent in the end of the book - a good idea) and almost endless possibilities as a gm to create whatever campaign u like. the continent is large and not as "cramped" with supernatural intelligences and a whole bunch of other stuff like the North Americas.

instead of africa being the worst book in rifts i would like to suggest any book that has CJ printed on it. honestly i think the worst book is the Phase World book, but that probably belongs in another forum

c ya

[Danger]

I think it's in the running, along with England.

I'm not a fan of the western books either.

You don't like the New West?!?

Blasphemer!

[cornholioprime]

WHo wants to play a Spear Chuckin Tar babie?

Hate to sound like a Mod, but:

Careful, Recon.

[Sentinel]

WHo wants to play a Spear Chuckin Tar babie?

Hate to sound like a Mod, but:

Careful, Recon.

I'm black, and I thought it was funny.

[Levi]

I don’t think WB 4: Africa was a bad book really, although it’s not a good book either. I think it does have somewhat limited use for players and GMs. For players the necromancer might be a playable (and fun) character GM permitting, and the Mind Bleeder is awesome. I have used the setting as a back drop for a few adventures over years and it works great for that.

Myself, I don’t like a ton of detail about everything. Just some basic flavor is cool with me. For the most part I prefer it that way. Also, I expected Africa to be a desolate continent with almost no real human presence. I feel that way too much of the world is way over built/populate for the supposedly apocalyptic feel.

Although I have never used it, I really like the story and adventure ideas for the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse. The Egyptian Gods are cool, but in general not really useful. I have used the Phoenix Empire as an antagonist for my adventures and they worked out great. And of course the Splugorth presence is just one more dangerous enemy to worry about if you find yourself in the region.

One of the things I like best about Africa is that it is a completely desolate region where PCs have almost no chance of finding aid, supplies, allies, or anything else useful; just dangerous enemies.

However, this setting doesn’t really provide a good long term adventure or campaign arena.

Overall I would rank Africa average in quality and ideas, but below average in general usefulness and playability.

[Lagos]

I am happy to say i have never read the book, i own it, it's never been opened and it sits neatly in my stack of books that'll never be touched which include austrailia.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

I am happy to say i have never read the book, i own it, it's never been opened and it sits neatly in my stack of books that'll never be touched which include austrailia.

You shouldn't judge a book before you read it.

~ Josh

[Sentinel]

2)They did not say any thing about African Gods.

...

Good. Its bad enough that the Egyptian gods came back. I dont like steriotypes.

Showcasing the gods of an indigenous people isn't stereotyping. Where else would African Gods appear? And, why exclude them but have gods from almost every other pantheon?
I hear what you're saying about the stereotype OCCs that seem to get introduced in every world book, but I don't feel African gods would have been part of that.

That being said, the NPE was a cool country (although I find it wierd that its borders are exactly over 4 countires from today's world). A country of demons rocks! I still think they are one of the most underestimated threats on the Earth.

How do you feel about Rifts China?

Africa intruduced the coolest magic ever, necromancy! How does that suck?

Necromancy doesn't suck, per se: I just would prefer that all magic appear in a sourcebook like Book of Magic. I hate having to buy one book to get something like Necromancy, but not have a need for all the other crap that goes into the worldbook. Necromancy is not unique to Africa, and as such should have been featured in a sourcebook, not a worldbook.
Same with the Mind Bleeder: this would have rounded out Psyscape nicely (and would have been better than many of the PCCs found therein as it was).

Africa is indeed big though. They could have done much better with using most of that space.

Very True.

[DBX]

it is hard to use in scenarios. too far away, well distant from ideas and integrating into scenarios from North America. this could be said for all world books, but agfter you have done the Horseman scenario, there is nothing else. other than Thoth and Necomancy in that book. everything else is way low powered when compared to CWC book to even be considered.


more ideas and ways/ideas to connect to rest of the world, would make it a useful book

[Sentinel]

Africa doesn't so much need a way to be connected to the rest of the world, it just needs to have more information outside of KevSims' meta-plot in order to be useful to anyone who doesn't want to play his story.
The only info on countries and stuff (beyond the Mind Bleeder and Necromancer) is tied to the meta-plots.
I would have liked a basic map on Madagascar, with some flora and fauna.
I would have liked to seen a devastated Capetown South Africa, or info on the Congo. There was more to this dark continent than the Four Hoursmen and the Empire of the Sun. Remove that and there would have been room for good information.

[Slag]

I didn't mean to offend anyone so sorry if I did, but the Africa book in my opinion was ridiculous.
I wanted to see a Zulu mystic tribesman, or some totem/spirit warrior. I know its been done over and over but come on Pigmies? ha talk about a joke a 2 foot spear man screamin HAAMII NAMMI LOOMAI!

In the mean time you could prolly adapt the Native American OCCs to African cultures. A Zulu or Ashanti Spirit Warrior would rock mightily.

[gaby]

I think ther People who want to play Africa without the Four H orsemen of Apocalypse.

Here is What I would do.

One of the big Problems come from the Phoenix Empire.
It is just too big.

I would Decrease it,s size and Population,the Phoenix Empire claim Egypt, East Libya and North Sudan.

The Population needs to go down to say 20 million.

The Phoenix Empire must have Rivals.
Who they are is up to you?

You can make Kingdom of Free Humans and D-Bees under the Protection and leadership of African Gods.

Will can have a City of Aliens that was Rifted in.

What do you think of My ideas.

[Blue Eyes]

howdy

u can easily play africa without having the players deal with the horsemen. in my campaign (i described that in an earlier entry in this post) the horsemen have been defeated (well death is still hanging around hehe). u can have ur players start their campaign after they have been stopped or leave it out entirely.

still i think there is plenty of possibilities in africa, and i think ur ideas are good gaby. i do not think the phoenix empire is too big though, actually the PE is expanding its borders in my campaign because the mad pharao wants revenge because the horsemen were stopped. and of course the PE has enemies; they just arent that powerful since they are scattered over a large continent and have to rally together to stop the monster empire. if i remember correctly both the congo, and most of the center countries of the continent have an ok population, and the east coast of the continent is in pretty good shape and is a tech center in its own right. u see the thing about africa is that its not all is spelled out for u, u have to create the human, d-bee and monster kingdoms u want - its not like north america where every square inch has been described...

also i really like that this place is one of the few places where the people of paladium actually decided to create an original badguy instead of the "standard" supernatural intelligence

any place u decide to create can be anything u like. it could be a high tech city with old golden-age tech from this part of the world instead of the usual "made in america", fine examples for creating ur own stuff and getting ideas are the israeli war machines described in the book. or it could be a nation build around magic, shamans and tribe community, or a unique blend of the two. it could be a community run by strict religious leaders and priests of the returned nile gods - use ur imagination. as a comment to the many who think that the nile gods are cliches, too weak etc i can only say that they dont have that many followers thats why they arent that powerful, but if u dont like them dont use them.

personally i would like the idea of an entire city of rifted in aliens - i think thats a cool idea and i just might use it myself

other things i have used in africa:
1. blood druids, witches and necromancers scheming to create their own cults.
2. the horune pirates, both as maniacal pirates and attackers, but also as necessary allies to travel the seas
3. any sploog minion, i personally love the kittani and the mysterious sunaj
4. pre-rifts ruins with golden age technology, strange research facilities that could only be build in africa because they did dangerous research (psychic abilities, monsters, possession, astral projection, ley-lines etc) and could not get the necessary clearances to build their facilities anywhere in the US or europe. excavations of ruins, interesting findings
5. millenium trees and druids and all the problems they can create and solve
were-beasts both good and evil
6. the Nautýll
7. temples. shrines, tombs and other holy places. Taboos and grave robbers
8. corrupt and evil rain makers who blackmail the local population
9. guerilla war against the PE, rescuing slaves.
10. u can introduce some of the other necomancy OCCs that are introduced in one of the rifter books.
hmm i might return with more but i dont have my books here.

and i dont think the books OCCs and RCCs are underpowered, its just the following books that are overpowered thats a fact

c ya

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Not bad Blue Eyes

[cornholioprime]

WHo wants to play a Spear Chuckin Tar babie?

Hate to sound like a Mod, but:

Careful, Recon.

I'm black, and I thought it was funny.

That's a surprise.

And here I thought that only I was (and maybe el magico; Freddie Williams doesn't really count as a longtime Rifts Contributor).

I didn't mind it, either, but he IS in this Forum, and it ain't exactly like Sound-Off in here.

I got banned not too long ago for making what I thought was a harmless "Battlestar Galactica" reference to the Thirteen Tribes...so I'm gonna guess that Comments like that one are put him on the Tightrope if not flip him (or her) into the fire..........

[Nekira Sudacne]

One of the things I like best about Africa is that it is a completely desolate region where PCs have almost no chance of finding aid, supplies, allies, or anything else useful; just dangerous enemies.

the sad part is, that's what ALL of rifts was supposed to be like origionally

[Sentinel]

Sentinel wrote:
cornholioprime wrote:
U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:
WHo wants to play a Spear Chuckin Tar babie?
Hate to sound like a Mod, but:

Careful, Recon.


I'm black, and I thought it was funny.


That's a surprise.

What, that I'm black, or that I have a warped sense of humour?

[cornholioprime]

Sentinel wrote:
cornholioprime wrote:
U.S.Advanced Recon wrote:
WHo wants to play a Spear Chuckin Tar babie?
Hate to sound like a Mod, but:

Careful, Recon.


I'm black, and I thought it was funny.


That's a surprise.

What, that I'm black, or that I have a warped sense of humour?

That ye be Black, as I be.

A Warped Sense of Humor merely adds icing to the Cake, and is a Minimum Attribute Requirement to be in the My Circle of Friends O.C.C.




.....and by the way, 50 Respect Points for being "Black" instead of the Politically Correct "African-American...."

[Kalinda]

Africa doesn't so much need a way to be connected to the rest of the world, it just needs to have more information outside of KevSims' meta-plot in order to be useful to anyone who doesn't want to play his story.
The only info on countries and stuff (beyond the Mind Bleeder and Necromancer) is tied to the meta-plots.
I would have liked a basic map on Madagascar, with some flora and fauna.
I would have liked to seen a devastated Capetown South Africa, or info on the Congo. There was more to this dark continent than the Four Hoursmen and the Empire of the Sun. Remove that and there would have been room for good information.

Nail. Hit. head.

[Sentinel]

.....and by the way, 50 Respect Points for being "Black" instead of the Politically Correct "African-American...."

I'm too old for that new-age touchy-feely Politically Correct clap-trap.

[Gomen_Nagai]

well his being black certainly explains his dissonance!

[Sentinel]

One of the things I like best about Africa is that it is a completely desolate region where PCs have almost no chance of finding aid, supplies, allies, or anything else useful; just dangerous enemies.

the sad part is, that's what ALL of rifts was supposed to be like origionally

It was better that way wasn't it?

When the world was truly a broken wilderness, and the characters were struggling to survive.

I would have liked not to have had MDC, but used the SDC weapons found in Heroes Unlimited (which had lasers, ion blasters, P-Beam weapons, etc), and the monsters, magic, psychics and stuff of PFRPG, HU, BtS, would have been fine as they were.

Aside from that, the post-apocalyptic world was a neat idea that first attracted me to Rifts.