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I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

Of if he falls from a high place. I was thinking of a 20 to 1 ratio...you take 20 MD in one hit and you character take 1 SDC to represent bruising and small bands...maybe 10 to 1...
any thoughts?

I play with the standard fall/impact rules plus
- any kinetic attack causes 1 SDC per MD
- any energy attack causes 1 SDC per 10 MD

Half or less in PA (half for terrain hopper, maybe one fifth in GB),
almost none in vehicles.

Adios
KLM

I usually just trying make the damage from ancillary sources fit the situation. In the situation you described with the plasma shot, I think it likely the character would lose the arm (unless I misunderstand), and so I would probably give him a d20 and tell him to "roll high." Depending on how he rolled, I would go from there. I always try to give my players a "chance" to survive even certain death and dismemberment.

There are rules for falling damage, and I don't think that MDC armor would make much of a difference, I would just use those. It would take much more than a normal fall to damage MDC armor, but the player would be damaged the same as if he had no armor at all. Maybe a slight reduction if the armor is padded well.

you might want to differentiate based on damage type.

like, Peircing, impact, heat.

peircing damage would be things like armor peircing explosives, shrapnel, bullets, ect. things that would leave a nice crater in the armor. these are likely to do more damage to the wearer, even if it doesn't get through.

impact damage would be things like explosions, falling, clubs, other 'blunt' truama inducing damage.

heat would be most energy weapons.


then assign a seperate ratio for each.

for example:
Peircing- 1/10
impact-1/20
heat- 1/5

most armor is pretty bad at shrugging of the heat that would cause MD, so more passes through.
impacts would be muffled, so less gets through. most armor is designed to stop peirce damage, so it's the base.

forcedevolution wrote:I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

I don't much care for that idea. really, if any damage does go though it's such a small % compared to the total MD done to the armor it's really silly to think of all the 60 MDC only1d6 SDC go though

Of if he falls from a high place. I was thinking of a 20 to 1 ratio...you take 20 MD in one hit and you character take 1 SDC to represent bruising and small bands...maybe 10 to 1...
any thoughts?

you know there is OFFICAL rules for taking damage in MDC armor from falling and impact. this isn't a houserule.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:you know there is OFFICAL rules for taking damage in MDC armor from falling and impact. this isn't a houserule.

I was thinking aboot that meself.

~ Josh

glitterboy2098 wrote:you might want to differentiate based on damage type.

like, Peircing, impact, heat.

peircing damage would be things like armor peircing explosives, shrapnel, bullets, ect. things that would leave a nice crater in the armor. these are likely to do more damage to the wearer, even if it doesn't get through.

impact damage would be things like explosions, falling, clubs, other 'blunt' truama inducing damage.

heat would be most energy weapons.


then assign a seperate ratio for each.

for example:
Peircing- 1/10
impact-1/20
heat- 1/5

most armor is pretty bad at shrugging of the heat that would cause MD, so more passes through.
impacts would be muffled, so less gets through. most armor is designed to stop peirce damage, so it's the base.

Just for simplicity's sake, I'd go just one to one for most damage. Obviously things like acid damage wouldn't harm the character in armor, but I agree that piercing, impact, and heat damage would realisitically pass through a small percentage to the victim in cuts, bruses and burns.

forcedevolution wrote:I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

How about:
For every 1 MDC the armor loses, the person inside takes 1 SDC damage.

Of if he falls from a high place. I was thinking of a 20 to 1 ratio...you take 20 MD in one hit and you character take 1 SDC to represent bruising and small bands...maybe 10 to 1...
any thoughts?

This is covered in Rifts, the GM's Guide, and (IIRC) RUE.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

forcedevolution wrote:I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

How about:
For every 1 MDC the armor loses, the person inside takes 1 SDC damage.

that's a bit silly.

two or three shots would cripple the man inside before the armor is even in serious trouble.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

forcedevolution wrote:I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

How about:
For every 1 MDC the armor loses, the person inside takes 1 SDC damage.

that's a bit silly.

two or three shots would cripple the man inside before the armor is even in serious trouble.

Yup.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

forcedevolution wrote:I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

How about:
For every 1 MDC the armor loses, the person inside takes 1 SDC damage.

that's a bit silly.

two or three shots would cripple the man inside before the armor is even in serious trouble.

Yup.

is my sarcasem meter broken? it's not picking up any here...

Wolff wrote:

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:you know there is OFFICAL rules for taking damage in MDC armor from falling and impact. this isn't a houserule.

I was thinking aboot that meself.

~ Josh

Book and Page? I've been wondering myself where to find rules for it.

it's in the RMB, I can't find my copy right now so I don't know page

Wolff wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Wolff wrote:

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:you know there is OFFICAL rules for taking damage in MDC armor from falling and impact. this isn't a houserule.

I was thinking aboot that meself.

~ Josh

Book and Page? I've been wondering myself where to find rules for it.

it's in the RMB, I can't find my copy right now so I don't know page

Did it survive the transfer to RUE? Still can't get my hands on a copy of the RMB, which is less necessary at the moment, as I need a few more SBs and WBs, the BoM, etc...

I know it was copy/pasted to URE, but I don't have that on hand either

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

forcedevolution wrote:I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

How about:
For every 1 MDC the armor loses, the person inside takes 1 SDC damage.

that's a bit silly.

two or three shots would cripple the man inside before the armor is even in serious trouble.

Yup.

is my sarcasem meter broken? it's not picking up any here...

No sarcasm.
I just don't see the problem with it.

When you have some free time, get a couple of friends together and have one of you (the unpopular one) put on a bullet-proof vest.
Now shoot the vest with a pistol repeatedly.
See which gives out first, the person or the armor.

forcedevolution wrote:I was wondering about some simple rules (house rules) about measuring damage to people inside of MDC body armor. By this I mean like...someone get shot with a plasma rifle, pieces of armor slags off the victim...

Of if he falls from a high place. I was thinking of a 20 to 1 ratio...you take 20 MD in one hit and you character take 1 SDC to represent bruising and small bands...maybe 10 to 1...
any thoughts?

I haven't read the newest RIFTS book cover to cover, but I do remember that one of the original books (MB I think) had this information.

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Killer Cyborg wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
that's a bit silly.

two or three shots would cripple the man inside before the armor is even in serious trouble.

Yup.

is my sarcasem meter broken? it's not picking up any here...

No sarcasm.
I just don't see the problem with it.

When you have some free time, get a couple of friends together and have one of you (the unpopular one) put on a bullet-proof vest.
Now shoot the vest with a pistol repeatedly.
See which gives out first, the person or the armor.

While I strongly suggest not to try this test on a person
(unless he wants to win a Darwin award for voluntary
standing before a gun), the concept is sigged by me.

This way, SDC characters do get hurt without vaporised,
which promotes such things as first aid, healing magic,
and generally the desire not to be hit.

On the winning side, with a couple of well placed head shots
will result in a healty loot.

Adios
KLM

The canon rules are on pg. 355-356 of RUE. They are also in the main book, but I do not know what page.

Also, Rifter #30 has a good artical on this. Page 45 MDC Armor Pass-Though Damage.

Yup...

Broken ribs, massive bruising, muscle and joint pain are all common injuries reported by cops whom have been shot while wearing a vest. The impact of the bullet is not blocked...it is dispersed through the surface of the vest, and the energy penetrates it.

Three slugs from a .357 at close range and you're probably also talking about significant sub-surface damage, and possibly, ruptures.

Why wear it if you're still going to suffer significant injury?

Simple...a few days/weeks of hospital time or bed rest versus a permanent dirt-nap. Which would you choose?

Borast wrote:Yup...

Broken ribs, massive bruising, muscle and joint pain are all common injuries reported by cops whom have been shot while wearing a vest. The impact of the bullet is not blocked...it is dispersed through the surface of the vest, and the energy penetrates it.

Three slugs from a .357 at close range and you're probably also talking about significant sub-surface damage, and possibly, ruptures.

Why wear it if you're still going to suffer significant injury?

Simple...a few days/weeks of hospital time or bed rest versus a permanent dirt-nap. Which would you choose?

that's the difference between "soft" and "hard" armor though.

soft armor dispers the shot

hard armor simply deflects it.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Borast wrote:Yup...

Broken ribs, massive bruising, muscle and joint pain are all common injuries reported by cops whom have been shot while wearing a vest. The impact of the bullet is not blocked...it is dispersed through the surface of the vest, and the energy penetrates it.

Three slugs from a .357 at close range and you're probably also talking about significant sub-surface damage, and possibly, ruptures.

Why wear it if you're still going to suffer significant injury?

Simple...a few days/weeks of hospital time or bed rest versus a permanent dirt-nap. Which would you choose?

that's the difference between "soft" and "hard" armor though.

soft armor dispers the shot

hard armor simply deflects it.

Just remember, if hit by a healthy splash from a plasma
warhead, hard armor is just as hot as soft armor.
Besides, helmets are almost invariably hard armor, but
take on a protective helmet, and get your head banged
by a hammer (I will take no responsibility for the results!)
to realise that even hard armor cannot take everything.

Adios
KLM
armor

KLM wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Borast wrote:Yup...

Broken ribs, massive bruising, muscle and joint pain are all common injuries reported by cops whom have been shot while wearing a vest. The impact of the bullet is not blocked...it is dispersed through the surface of the vest, and the energy penetrates it.

Three slugs from a .357 at close range and you're probably also talking about significant sub-surface damage, and possibly, ruptures.

Why wear it if you're still going to suffer significant injury?

Simple...a few days/weeks of hospital time or bed rest versus a permanent dirt-nap. Which would you choose?

that's the difference between "soft" and "hard" armor though.

soft armor dispers the shot

hard armor simply deflects it.

Just remember, if hit by a healthy splash from a plasma
warhead, hard armor is just as hot as soft armor.
Besides, helmets are almost invariably hard armor, but
take on a protective helmet, and get your head banged
by a hammer (I will take no responsibility for the results!)
to realise that even hard armor cannot take everything.

Adios
KLM
armor

He's exactly right. Even if its hard body armor, the energy (no matter what type) doesn't just vanish. Knights wearing hard armor still felt the hit when they were jousting. Even in cases of deflection, some of the energy still needs to disperse to the wearer.

Thats why I like the knockdown rules in the Conversion Book. Whether you want the damage to be inflicted on the wearer or not is up to the GM, but I personally play the 1 SD to 1 MD ratio.

the sdc damage inside mdc armor rule is on page 355-356 of R:UE

it only happens from attacks that ignore armor (psi/magic), and impact damage (per 20' of falling, 50mph+ of high speed crash, or per 20 md of explosion). theres also a % chance of being stuned. aditionaly, missle/railgun attacks of 50+ knock you off your feet.

energy dosent do anything, unless you houserule.

teulisch wrote:the sdc damage inside mdc armor rule is on page 355-356 of R:UE

it only happens from attacks that ignore armor (psi/magic), and impact damage (per 20' of falling, 50mph+ of high speed crash, or per 20 md of explosion). theres also a % chance of being stuned. aditionaly, missle/railgun attacks of 50+ knock you off your feet.

energy dosent do anything, unless you houserule.

I was referring to kinetic energy as well as heat and other types of electromagnetic spectral energy.

plata_knight wrote:

teulisch wrote:the sdc damage inside mdc armor rule is on page 355-356 of R:UE

it only happens from attacks that ignore armor (psi/magic), and impact damage (per 20' of falling, 50mph+ of high speed crash, or per 20 md of explosion). theres also a % chance of being stuned. aditionaly, missle/railgun attacks of 50+ knock you off your feet.

energy dosent do anything, unless you houserule.

I was referring to kinetic energy as well as heat and other types of electromagnetic spectral energy.

while i can see your reasoning i disagree with the implementation. I imagine MDC armor as having excellent thermal dispersion/disipation properties as well as radiation shielding. kenetic energy may, if severe enough, cause th person inside to be rattled around so vilolently that they take some damage but this will not usually be fatal unless they are in a massive explosion, get rammed by a fast moving vehicle, or fall from great hight.

All in all MDC armor is gonna intercept most effects of thermal, light, plasma, ion, particle, and kenetic energy before the wearer feels anything. Even magic and psi powers that create a physical manifestation are blocked by the armor.

There are official rules, but perhaps this is another good area to use adapted "Damage Soak" rules. Something like it is 1 SDC for each MDC damage , but the armor absorbs the amount equal to 10% of its remain MDC.

So if someone in 80 MDC armor is hit by a blast doing 10 MDC. The armor would aborb the first 8 SDC, and the user would take 2 SDC. But now that the armore only has 70 MDC left, the next 10 MDC blast will inflict 3 SDC to the user.

This could also be applied to vehicles too. The users take damage for being "shaken up" after a large blast. Of course a modifier could be made to reduce the damage further if they are strapped in.

It makes characters more vulnerable to very powerful weapons, but personally, that is what I like Of course, I have never tried to play this, so it may be too complicated to play effectively.