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Honestly? I rather dislike the Mystic and Techno-Wizard.

I just dislike bazillions of different classes, some barely different from each other, some so narrowly specialized playing one would by like playing a proctologist, and are useful only in limited situations. Some are too weak and some are too strong. Very few are just right.

The Stone Master OCC has always just made my skin crawl. Of all the magic using classes available, I'd rather be a freaking magic candle maker than a Stone Master.

Lord_Coake wrote:Theres already a favorite OCC poll, so I thought to ask which OCC was the most hated, detested, loathed and maligned OCC you've ever had to deal with. The most useless and/or overpowered, uber-munchkin, BS OCC that you just can't stand and wish was never written?

For me, it's the Gunslinger, and his wired counterpart. The loathing I feel for these OCC's is palpable whenever I'm forced to play with one. That hatred is magnified a thousandfold when I see/find out that this criminal-killer OCC is somehow able to learn a form of Hand to Hand that is supposed to be reserved for the Military Elite.

So post! And let the hatred flow!

Blaspher I say! Gunslinger is the second best OCC in Exsistance! Only the Mind Melter is superior!

as for my least favorite?

honest...as written...

cyberknights.

and it's a crying shame too...so much potential...their own book...WASTED

where is the "all the above" button????

As odd as it is, I'm with Nekira The Cyber Knight is the OCC I hate the most. Originally the most munchkin class in Rifts; highest number of main book skills (something I'm pretty sure hasn't changed), psionics, cybernetics AND special bonuses on top of that...with nothing to really limit them, despite people's claims that the code of honor did so (that went out the window with Vampire Kingdoms), then they get boosted even more (sure, they essentially lose the majority of the cybernetics that they had, but the "Zen Combat" (in paranthesis because there's nothing Zen about it) more than makes up for it.

On the bright side, with the advent of Rifts China 2, they're no longer in the top 5 for OCCs with most initial skills.

Lord_Coake wrote:How so? Honestly, I'm curious. CK's are one of my fav's, next to Merc Soldiers and Triax Field Mechanics.

more skills than a scholor or scientist, more bonuses than any other non-agumentented Men of Arms class (discounting cyber armor).

while we're at it, CYBER ARMOR...I just can't stand the damn things. if I ever do make a cyber knight, i'm gonna have his cyber armor ripped off by someone and never replaced just so I don't have to deal with it

then there's the weak-ass psi-sword they can make for free. granted, this isn't really a detriment anymore sinse they can make it paired.

in other words, a good concept poorly executed

As for the gunslinger...maybe I've just had some nasty experiences. MASSIVELY munchinked stats, HtH Commando, and distaining every weapon doing under 6d6MD. Not to mention using a Judgement Day in each hand, Anarchist alignment, and being a murdering, theiving asassin only out for his own monetary enrichment, completely ignoring the party and acting like a total *******.

I won't deny the tendancy twords muchkinisem, as it was calculated my gunslinger could kill spyncryth in under a melee (assuming he sat there and let me kill him and did NOTHING)

with that said however, yea, you just had some bad experiances.

my gunslinger does not have HtH Commando, however. and also if your players are playing annoying pricks then of course they're not going to be likeable.

My gunslinger for one is definatly not that. in fact, I havn't decided yet what the right term for her IS, but she tends to be nice to most people.

There, I fixed the poll so it's an actual poll instead of a "how much a I hate gunslingers poll".

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:There, I fixed the poll so it's an actual poll instead of a "how much a I hate gunslingers poll".

Is there a way to reset the votes cast then?

Marrowlight wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:There, I fixed the poll so it's an actual poll instead of a "how much a I hate gunslingers poll".

Is there a way to reset the votes cast then?

Might be, let me check.

Misfit KotLD wrote:Are we asking Xammi or Trisha for an opinion on Kyri? Xammi would sing her praises while Trisha would call her every dirty name in the book and quite a few that aren't.

well, you can't please every woman all the time. Mig learned that the hard way.

Well, whadya know, it worked, cast them votes again folks.

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:Well, whadya know, it worked, cast them votes again folks.

Cool, thanks man.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Marrowlight wrote:

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:Well, whadya know, it worked, cast them votes again folks.

Cool, thanks man.

So which magic OCC did you vote for?

As above...

Marrowlight wrote:Honestly? I rather dislike the Mystic and Techno-Wizard.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:Are we asking Xammi or Trisha for an opinion on Kyri? Xammi would sing her praises while Trisha would call her every dirty name in the book and quite a few that aren't.

well, you can't please every woman all the time. Mig learned that the hard way.

Physics get in the way. His bed only has room for so many women at once.

I rest my case

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:Are we asking Xammi or Trisha for an opinion on Kyri? Xammi would sing her praises while Trisha would call her every dirty name in the book and quite a few that aren't.

well, you can't please every woman all the time. Mig learned that the hard way.

Physics get in the way. His bed only has room for so many women at once.

I rest my case

He did his part, so what if there's a line.

just saying. Kyri has the same limitation

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:just saying. Kyri has the same limitation

Kyri isn't the one making lovers so jealous they're willing to draw blood.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:just saying. Kyri has the same limitation

Kyri isn't the one making lovers so jealous they're willing to draw blood.

Though we have gone a bit astray of the origional post. Guess we do admit not all Gunslingers fit his stereotype?

Agreed.

and for the audiance witnessing, we're both playing gunslingers in the same game

I had to go with the Cyber Knight. I never did like the class in the RMB, and they're even worse now. There is nothing "cyber" about cyber knights.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:and for the audiance witnessing, we're both playing gunslingers in the same game

Neky is playing Kyri, a short Japanese woman gunslinger who likes girls and gunslingers named Mig. I am playing Mig, a Mexican gunslinger who has too many wives and children of very odd lineage.

Ah, that answers a few questions I was just about to ask...

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:and for the audiance witnessing, we're both playing gunslingers in the same game

Neky is playing Kyri, a short Japanese woman gunslinger who likes girls and gunslingers named Mig. I am playing Mig, a Mexican gunslinger who has too many wives and children of very odd lineage.

Ah, that answers a few questions I was just about to ask...

detailed questions may be adressed

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Mindcrime wrote:I had to go with the Cyber Knight. I never did like the class in the RMB, and they're even worse now. There is nothing "cyber" about cyber knights.

But they have Cyber Armor!

...which is alive.

I've never paid much attention to the CK and few people I've played with have expressed much interest either, but it's always seemed to me that the Psi-Warrior from Psyscape would fit in the CK's roll better than the CK, and without the problems of the CK that people already pointed out.

I'm gonna have to go with Cyberknights, though Ninjas are right up there.

The only reason I dislike Cyberknights more than Ninjas is that Cyber knights were simply a waisted opportunity. Ninja's were lame to begin with. But cyber knights, had the potential that got waisted.

I loved them in the main book, though as Power creep happend their psi-sword got weaker and weaker. Then the Cyber knight book came out, to increase their power, and they go from being defenders of good to anti-CS. No longer do they fight dragons, nope...now they fight CS/tech enemies, and are still just as lame vs. Supernatural enemies.

Nekira Sudacne wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Nekira Sudacne wrote:and for the audiance witnessing, we're both playing gunslingers in the same game

Neky is playing Kyri, a short Japanese woman gunslinger who likes girls and gunslingers named Mig. I am playing Mig, a Mexican gunslinger who has too many wives and children of very odd lineage.

Ah, that answers a few questions I was just about to ask...

detailed questions may be adressed

Well, since the main question has been answered, I wouldn't mind knowing about the "odd lineage" of Mig's children. Did he get hot and heavy with a metamorphed dragon or something?

Misfit KotLD wrote:Mig has a son and a daughter that were fathered by magic involving a certain piece of Osiris. Kyri carries twins that he fathered. One of his wives, a living magic, carries his latest child, though she required magic to become fertile.

well, it should be noted the jealousy is from his obessive first and third wives wouldup having children by Osirus, who isn't even alive, while kyri had migs

Misfit KotLD wrote:Mig has a son and a daughter that were fathered by magic involving a certain piece of Osiris. Kyri carries twins that he fathered. One of his wives, a living magic, carries his latest child, though she required magic to become fertile.

That really is odd.

I hate Cosmo-Knights and Psi-Ghosts. Actually, I hate anything from Phase World and Psi-Ghosts. And anything from South America 2 or Rifts Underseas. and.....no, i guess that just about covers it.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:I hate Cosmo-Knights and Psi-Ghosts. Actually, I hate anything from Phase World and Psi-Ghosts. And anything from South America 2 or Rifts Underseas. and.....no, i guess that just about covers it.

Are you sure that covers it? And did you narrow it down to a single least favorite?

If I absolutly had to pick one.....no, I can't. Phase World was just an awful awful book. God, so was underseas....I can't pick just one.

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:I hate Cosmo-Knights and Psi-Ghosts. Actually, I hate anything from Phase World and Psi-Ghosts. And anything from South America 2 or Rifts Underseas. and.....no, i guess that just about covers it.

Are you sure that covers it? And did you narrow it down to a single least favorite?

If I absolutly had to pick one.....no, I can't. Phase World was just an awful awful book. God, so was underseas....I can't pick just one.

Underseas could easially have been better, but why the hating on phase world?

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:

Misfit KotLD wrote:

RoadWarriorFWaNK wrote:I hate Cosmo-Knights and Psi-Ghosts. Actually, I hate anything from Phase World and Psi-Ghosts. And anything from South America 2 or Rifts Underseas. and.....no, i guess that just about covers it.

Are you sure that covers it? And did you narrow it down to a single least favorite?

If I absolutly had to pick one.....no, I can't. Phase World was just an awful awful book. God, so was underseas....I can't pick just one.

Phase World is one of my favorites.

Lord_Coake wrote:The poll was actually meant as a joke...ah well.

I will stand by my hatred of the 'Slingers. Actually allof the OCC's in the New West pretty much make me want to start screaming "WHY GOD WHY?" and beat my head against the floor.

why?

Lord_Coake wrote:The poll was actually meant as a joke...ah well.

You gotta be specific if you're gonna do it that way though, otherwise you get the inevitable topic derailment (not that you wouldn't get that anyway, but there's less problems if you're more specific).

I will stand by my hatred of the 'Slingers. Actually allof the OCC's in the New West pretty much make me want to start screaming "WHY GOD WHY?" and beat my head against the floor.

Allowing them to select HTH Commando without allowing the Special Forces OCC from Mercs to select it was bad enough for me.

Yeah, the new Cyber-Knights threw me off a bit too, though I came up with a neat little counter.

I scale back the bonuses for Zen Combat some, and slow down the progression. The I tinker with the wording some and apply it to the minds of their opponents and their surroundings rather than machines. THis allows Zen Combat to be applied to any intelligent liging creature.

Oh, I tinker with the wording, primarily deleting the misuse of the word "zen" anywhere in it's existance.

It actually works fairly well, it DOES increase the power curve more than a little, but thats easily beaten back by a smart GM. Using the rules as I do the, the CK's are a bit too jedi-ish, but still fun.

And seeing a Principled-aligned Courtier Knight fighting to the death with a Diabolic Despoiler is a thing to be feared and ran away from.

Edit: Spelling. Thanks Misfit.

Edit: More spelling.

I never, ever, liked the Magus OCCs from FoM.

Sentinel wrote:I never, ever, liked the Magus OCCs from FoM.

Sentinel wrote:I never, ever, liked the Magus OCCs from FoM.

I like all of them, especially the Lord Magus and the Controller.

Sentinel wrote:I never, ever, liked the Magus OCCs from FoM.

I wasn't a fan of any magic OCC except the mystic knight in FoM

Mindcrime wrote:

Sentinel wrote:I never, ever, liked the Magus OCCs from FoM.

I like all of them, especially the Lord Magus and the Controller.

Lord Magus all the way.

I'm all for sacrificing my humanity in the pursuit of mystic power.

I can't decide.

To me, it is not the O.C.C. that is bad rather the player playing it (or GM GMing it). Any O.C.C. can be good or bad depending on who is playing it...so as I stated above, I really can't decide.

~ Josh

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:

Mindcrime wrote:

Sentinel wrote:I never, ever, liked the Magus OCCs from FoM.

I like all of them, especially the Lord Magus and the Controller.

Lord Magus all the way.

I'm all for sacrificing my humanity in the pursuit of mystic power.

So why not a Witch?

I don't want to be any supernatural badass' *****.

Misfit KotLD wrote:

Ectoplasmic Bidet wrote:

Mindcrime wrote:

Sentinel wrote:I never, ever, liked the Magus OCCs from FoM.

I like all of them, especially the Lord Magus and the Controller.

Lord Magus all the way.

I'm all for sacrificing my humanity in the pursuit of mystic power.

So why not a Witch?

I love the concept of the Witch, but the class needs an updating imo.

Spyder wrote:Cowboy OCC is teh lame

Cowboy OCC has teh character!

The Psi-Slinger is pretty lame (I can't stand the "just give 'em a Mega-Damage forcefield! thinking).

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:I can't decide.

To me, it is not the O.C.C. that is bad rather the player playing it (or GM GMing it). Any O.C.C. can be good or bad depending on who is playing it...so as I stated above, I really can't decide.

~ Josh

Bingo, it's the player not the OCC.

A good enough player can make a Saloon bum a useful member of a party, play a Cosmo-knight without making the rest of the party feel useless, and might even get me to accept a Flooper as a PC.

I've gamed with a guy who did a wonderful Flooper.

Of course he also ran a wonderful floating giant-sized eyeball in an Amber game.

Man was just an all around expert at the weird and bizarre.


BTW - Since someone was asking (Misfit iirc), I decided. I hate techno-wizards more than Mystics.

Jason Richards wrote:

Spyder wrote:Cowboy OCC is teh lame

Cowboy OCC has teh character!

The Psi-Slinger is pretty lame (I can't stand the "just give 'em a Mega-Damage forcefield! thinking).

it's not. it's a copy of the Energy Resistance superpower from Heros Unlimited.

the Psi-ghost's intangilibity is the same as the one in HU as well.

hell, the cyber-knights "zen technological awanress", is actually the Mechanical awaressness superpower from HU too, only they get the bonuses as level progression instead of all at once.

(well, also ignore the parts related to psi-sword and cyber armor, those arn't in mechanical awarness. but the anti-tech bonuses are identical)

spatial mage from rifter. hate em. they use special rules from nightbane that i find... disturbing

teulisch wrote:spatial mage from rifter. hate em. they use special rules from nightbane that i find... disturbing

Oh I didn't know we could bring Rifter classes into this party.....

Misfit KotLD wrote:

teulisch wrote:spatial mage from rifter. hate em. they use special rules from nightbane that i find... disturbing

What disturbing special rules?

The only thing I can think of that he must be talking about is the creation of a dimensional realm, which closely mimics the NB Astral Lord's astral domain power. Nothing else seems to mesh very closely.

BTW, Astral Lords rock!

Battle magnus, was the biggest wast of paper i think i have ever read. It got vetoed right after i got done reading it in my game. Then there is the new and ****** up Cyber knight who the heck did that rewrite. They took a great champion and made him an anti- coalition gimmick. What a wast of a great concept!

Nekira Sudacne wrote:Underseas could easially have been better, but why the hating on phase world?

I believe the book was originally titled "Super Happy Munchkin Dimension" but they decided that was too long.
On a side note, I find it amusing that alot of the same people I've seen touting the merits of Phase World also whine about "power creep" and rifts not being gritty and "post-apocalyptic" enough.
Its like, what do you want? Do you want to destroy planets, or do you want to scavenge for food and gasoline?