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One thing I loved from the various titles in Palladium, and BTS 1 in particular, was the idea of Haunting Entities becoming Doppelgangers of living beings, as well as the more solidified Doppelganger Entity from Boxed Nightmares. Has anyone had any success or interesting accounts in using either the Haunting or solid Doppelganger types in a game? Also, since it IS an entity, does the Doppelganger have the other entities' ability to convert PPE into ISP for use of its psionic abilities?

Another question comes to mind. I'm currently running a MadHaven game and have wondered if anyone has made an modern conversions for the Doppelganger entity into BTS 2E or for Rifts? I was especially wondering how powerful their reality illusion powers would be as well as teleportation be? Would they be able to transport more? Should I look at the pocket reality of the Eight Trigrams power in Rifts China for ideas?

Good questions!

I haven't had much opportunity to run BtS games, so don't have that first-hand experience.

The Doppleganger Entity, however, is a favorite of mine. I've converted the Horned Lizard-Beast to second edition, but I haven't gotten to the Dopple-E yet.

A friend from Nexus Nine suggested a story arc for Boxed Nightmares 2 which involved a series of entities causing a string of suicides, re-enacting the Wall Street suicide jumps from the 1920s. A murderous summoner started with Syphon Entities which drove slowly drove victims insane and made them kill themselves. That was inefficient, so she tried summoning Possessing Entities next. She went too far when she summoned a Doppleganger Entity. The Doppleganger would have gotten out of control and become the final boss, creating a roaring twenties reality with tommy guns and speakeasies that the investigators would have to enter to defeat it. Unfortunately, the Boxed Nightmares 2 project also grew out of control, so I myself from writing new articles until I finish editing and placing what I've got. It might end up in Boxed Nightmares 3.

I've found that 1st edition monsters work well in a 2nd edition with no changes other than adding two new stat blocks: Weaknesses and Threat Level. In the case of the Dopple-E, the weakness is already there in the descriptive text.

Two things can send a doppleganger entity back to its own dimension: destorying its physical form, which can be extremely difficult, or by confronting it with the person it has impersoanted. The shock of seeing itself makes the entity wild. Its immediate reaction is to kill its other self, which it will always try to do. But the experience, while often fatal to the human, will usually cause the entity to revert back to energy form and disappear, back to its own dimension.

Spoiler alert: The particular dopple-e in the Boxed Nightmares story also has

That only leaves the matter of setting a Threat Level. It's a matter of opinion, but I feel that the Doppleganger Entities are the big bads of entity society, basically equivalent to a demon lord or dark god. The dopples are the gods of the entities. They aren't naturally as intelligent or manipulative (2D6 for both IQ and MA) as other badies, so they won't be playing the role of monarchs or tyrants. Their ability to copy even the mental attributes of other creatures easily compensates for this short coming. Their ability to create an artificial reality around themselves and trap victims inside is just b@d@$$. Yeah, I would give them the x10 threat level, same as an Ancient Evil.

I haven't gotten Madhaven yet, but I'm interested in it. DtMK, which of the new entities from Madhaven do you think would work in BtS-2?

See, this is what I like about the boards, when like minds come together it's beautiful! The Doppelganger Entity is incredible in its own right, and one can have a lot of fun with it. I definitely see it among the upper echelon of Entities, although if you want to talk about godlike beings, you should check out the Black Entity and Rift Entity from Rifts Index & Adventures Vol. 1. Those along with Psi-Nex from Psyscape are truly godlike creatures!

As far as Madhaven, there are conversions at the end of the Entities segment that show the threat levels for BTS-2. The Conglomerate Entities are horrific, and reminiscent of the multiple minded death cloud from The House on Haunted Hill remake. You have plenty of entities representing practically every vice and seven deadly sin and then some. The Madness Ghost is truly frightening for horror over several days, the Rotting and Contagion Entities are practically manifestations of Pestilence and Famine.

In my opinion, if you want to upgrade a Doppelganger Entity into BTS-2 or Rifts, its power needs to be represented properly, I can even relate their ability to warp reality being akin to Silent Hill. With that said, I can see them having reasonable power as a X6 threat in the standard world, but X10 in its own reality. I'd also dare say its damage capacity might increase in M.D.C. environments the same way the Magot does from S.D.C. to M.D.C.

The Doppelganger is a great creature to bring in if you've had a hellish NPC that was dispatched and the evil it radiated was so potent that one of these came to keep the evil going. Perhaps one showing up for the anniversary of a famous serial killer or mass murderer?

Dt, I like your suggestion of the D-Entity having two different threat levels. I was thinking that it was clearly more powerful than a Tectonic Entity which is at the x6 stage, but maybe the T-Entity is over-rated and should be downgraded to x4 like the other common entities.

I remember the Rifter Entity. I didn't like it, but I will take another look. I never read the Black Entity nor Psi-Nex descriptions, so I'll take your word for this. The Madness and Contagion Entities sound interesting -- I'll have to investigate those. Does Madhaven have a Gluttony Entity? I ask because it sort of relates (though not directly) to a new monster for Boxed Nightmares 2.

Back to the Dopple, yes, I would definitely give the Dopple the ability to gather and convert ISP/PPE. It has to eat sometime. I don't know how the 8 trigrams work in Rifts China (must be very different than the 8 trigrams in Mystic China), so I can't comment on that. Personally, I would just hand wave it and say that the Dopple can create any virtual world based upon its stolen memories, maybe with a maximum size of a few square kilometers. If you want a more detailed system than that, there are the point-based Astral Realm rules from Nightbane: Between the Shadows and the very similar Pocket Dimension rules from the Spatial Mage articles in early Rifters.

I don't understand this question: "Would they be able to teleport more?"

After reading my initial question, I know I should have been more clear. The D-Entity can teleport once every 48 hours, or directly after it feeds. But what if it were on a ley line, nexys or even in an environment more rich in magic? Would it be capable of teleporting more than the originally listed ability?

And yes, they have the Gluttonous Entity in Madhaven, horrifically ugly critters that pose a danger all their own. As well as the Beautiful, Madness and others. There's even one entity type that embodies pure rage, and has great Silent Hill-esque effects with electronics and communication equipment in its vicinity. Great stuff for horror!

And don't short the Tectonic Entities, anything that can get tens of thousands of S.D.C. depending on the material it animates would make it boss level danger for games if used correctly.

Thanks for the info on the Madhaven entities.

Yes, the Tectonic Entity can be very dangerous. But is it more of a threat than a Possessing Entity? the P-Entity has a comperable main power, much higher IQ, more hit points of its own, more ISP, and much better psychic powers. Yet, the P-Entity is only at the lowest threat level.

The potential danger of the monster really shouldn't determine the threat level anyway. Some dark gods, like Backsmack (from Rifter #9 1/2) aren't that dangerous but still get the highest threat level rating. To me, it seems that the threat level is based more upon the supernatural energy that the monster is radiating. The Tec-Ent seems to be the only deviant in an otherwise clear system. Maybe a re-ordering of the ranks is in order.

Concerning that teleportation, I don't know. It's a good question. I could see changing this to a magic power which emulates the Teleport Greater spell and giving it a reasonable PPE cost. I could also see this being changed to a Dimensional Teleport ability like the Devil Ghost has (X% accuracy, +25% on a ley line nexus). Either way, allow free and accurate teleportation into the virtual world after it has been created.

What other fake worlds would you like to see Doppleganger Entity create?

Well, the D-Entity's alternate world was an imperfect duplicate for Jack the Ripper's Whitechapel. It was always night and only a small area looped in on itself. What if the D-Entity's pocket dimension was also dependent on the perceptions of the host's mind? Such as a drug induced psychopath having a D-Entity's reality resembling a drug trip? Or a serial killer who was a multiple personality case having two or more sections of a world's personality being different, even polar opposite?

The Conglomerate Entity shows it's possible for more than one persona to be within an entity. But here's a really frightening thought. The Haunting Entity sometimes latches onto the emotions of someone still alive, becoming a Doppelganger Haunting Entity. What if, and here comes the really frightening part...what if the true Doppelganger Entity had the power to duplicate the powers of other entities that caused true horror and death? I'm not saying all at once, but what if a particular ghost had caused all kinds of havoc, was destroyed, and the D-Entity latched on to that imprint? From Tectonic to Possessing, perhaps even the Madhaven varieties. It could only duplicate one at a time, but imagine a single opponent who would be like a living nightmare to plague other beings? Usually the D-Entity loses the memory of its past incarnations. But what if some memory kept it going, guiding it?

I've been thinking about this a little, Dt. I think that your suggestion, although fun for the GM, might get annoying for the players. Let's say that the investigators start by tracking down an ax murderer, an entirely mortal and non-mystic crazy killer. They put down the ax murderer, and then the killing spree continues. They learn that a Nightbane-style Doppleganger copy of the murderer is in town. They find and take down the copy. Then a Haunting Entity copies the Doppleganger. They drive away the H-Entity, and finally a Doppleganger Entity copies the Haunter. If the GM set it up early in the campaign with a prophetic vision of four killers or a killer dying four times, it would be a cool way to structure a short campaign. It would, however, drive most players nuts, and perhaps they would even feel that their efforts are pointless because the GM just keeps resurrecting or copying the same bad guys. It would take a lot of buy-in on the part of the players.

As for the subject of a D-Entity copying another entity, I think that would work. D-Entities only seem interested in copying humans (or probably whatever mortal race is the standard in any particular world), so a Haunting Entity would be the most likely choice. At least within the virtual environment of the world the D-Entity creates, it should be able to give itself just about any power.