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bigirishguy wrote:I just got my copy of BTS2.....where is the rest of the book?

Not out yet. If you want to have a complete setting you're going to have to purchase probably dark conversions for monsters, Rifts book of magic for spells (easily converted) and maybe heroes unlimited or Ninjas and superspies for equipment. It sucks, and while the conversions shouldn't be too terribly difficult, the fact remains that a GM is going to have to do extra work beyond what should be required, until the two books come out.

CaptRory wrote:There is allready a lot of information there and the rest of the material, at least Magic and Monsters, were to come out shortly after release in two other books that kept getting delayed.

If you're desperate, check out the Nightbane Series.

As "incomplete" as BtS2 is, its still a far cry better then most products on the market. I believe I've gotten by money's worth from my copy of BtS2.

I'm with you CaptRory. I'm a long time BTS GM (over 10 years) and am able to do a hell of a lot with the BTS2. I love it just as much (if not more) than the original.

CaptRory wrote:Thanks GreenGhost, it was getting lonely out here, lol.

Unkledak wrote:I'm gonna have to go with bigirishguy, the book is missing so much unless you are a long time palladium fan (with other books) it's practically unplayable

Have to disagree here - there's plenty to be going on with in BTS-2 alone. The PCCs and the, admittedly limited, monster list at the rear easily provides tonnes of roleplaying possibilites.

Yes, Magic and more nasties would be nice, but not essential for some quality gaming. I've run horror games for ten years and my players think that BTS-2, incomplete as it is, is one of the best games they've ever played.

My BTS-2 games have been completely "Vanilla", no other Megaversal material used at all.

Looking forward to the new BTS-2 stuff, but my game doesn't depend on it, we're having too much fun as it is.

Unkledak wrote:I'm gonna have to go with bigirishguy, the book is missing so much unless you are a long time palladium fan (with other books) it's practically unplayable. The amount of fluff in the book makes a poor buy, a bad product, and the biggest disappointment I have ever had with this company!

I'm going to have to disagree as well. I've seen a lot of complaints about BTS2 not being a stand alone game so I put it to the test and had my players attempt to write up characters and set up a campaign just using my copy of BTS2. All 7 were able to do it without any problem.

I wish they would have more monsters in it (or at least have the Tome of the Grotesque come out a lot sooner than this), but as for the idea that it isn't a stand alone game is probably an argument for those who lack experience in running a BTS(2) campaign. That isn't meant as an insult (we've all been there), but just the fact that those 7 players of mine who have never GMed a Palladium game was able to do everything simply from the BTS2 book shows that it is a stand alone game. Even though the booksa aren't necessary for years of running a BTS2 campaign I really would like to see the other books come out here real soon.

CaptRory wrote:The Palladium Book of Monsters and Animals is an excellant resource; especially for BtS2 which is a little light in monsters. But its a great addition to any setting, in my opinion anyway.

But I agree, BtS2 is a fine stand alone setting.

True- I've used that before. I also just go on the internet and look up creatures and monsters there too. It's easy to create them from there, but I know there are a lot of people out there that want it easier than that. They want fully written up creatures in from the books, but all you need is one player reading it to put a wrench in the game, but if you do your own research- they can't intercept that

Zylo wrote:

GreenGhost wrote:That isn't meant as an insult (we've all been there), but just the fact that those 7 players of mine who have never GMed a Palladium game was able to do everything simply from the BTS2 book shows that it is a stand alone game.

Sorry, the fact that some of the monsters in the book can use magic and magic rules and spells are not included in the main book means it is not a stand alone game.

Yes, you can play with just the main book, but it's limited, and I would think after a game or two you would either be using other Palladium titles for material or be forced to use your own.

I miss the random monster generation chart from the original BTS. With that you didn't need a whole book of nasties. Why wasn't something similiar included in the main book?

Well all I can say is that we had different results. I've been gaming since '79 (GMing Palladium since '88) that's why I had 7 run the BTS2 game. 7 different people and the same result. I'm just talking about my personal and those 7 experience with it.

But like you said- there are thing missing that would be nice to have in the book. I know the other 2 sourcebooks were "supposed" to be released shortly after BTS2 and I'm disappointed that they aren't, but I've been GMing from it since it came out and haven't had a problem yet. I see it as a stand alone game, but I do see your point as well.

Zylo wrote:

GreenGhost wrote:That isn't meant as an insult (we've all been there), but just the fact that those 7 players of mine who have never GMed a Palladium game was able to do everything simply from the BTS2 book shows that it is a stand alone game.

Sorry, the fact that some of the monsters in the book can use magic and magic rules and spells are not included in the main book means it is not a stand alone game.

Yes, you can play with just the main book, but it's limited, and I would think after a game or two you would either be using other Palladium titles for material or be forced to use your own.

I miss the random monster generation chart from the original BTS. With that you didn't need a whole book of nasties. Why wasn't something similiar included in the main book?

Oh- and in your defense I do see what you mean about the lack of magic in the book. My players and I aren't really into magic in our BTS and BTS2 campaigns. So to be honest- none of us attempted to use magic. We didn't even try it since we weren't into it. So I see your argument about that keeping it from being a stand alone game in that reference.

GreenGhost wrote:Oh- and in your defense I do see what you mean about the lack of magic in the book. My players and I aren't really into magic in our BTS and BTS2 campaigns. So to be honest- none of us attempted to use magic. We didn't even try it since we weren't into it. So I see your argument about that keeping it from being a stand alone game in that reference.

Yeah, I have mentioned in previous posts that it would have been good marketing and better all around to have all three book completed (unbeknownst to the customer) and then ship out one book every month. You'd have had a lot of happy gamers out there with that.

GreenGhost wrote:My players and I aren't really into magic in our BTS and BTS2 campaigns. So to be honest- none of us attempted to use magic. We didn't even try it since we weren't into it. So I see your argument about that keeping it from being a stand alone game in that reference.

While one may/may not use magic as a preference in the game, this does make it hard to call it a stand alone game. Because magic was neglected, but inserted into (the already limited number) of monsters, you're missing a part of their threat.

While I see your point, but because it is missing magic, it really isn't a complete game, and can't be called a complete game. Monsters and animals is a great supplament, don't get me wrong, but it lacks the threat level conversions which make it harder on a GM, especially new GM's who are new to palladium.

Personally, if I was a new GM, and I notice these problems, I'd probably skip over it. There are many horror games out there, and while palladium has the setting, it lacks the full mechanics.

I also understand palladiums reasonings for this, and I feel for them, but I don't think many new BTS fans are gonna care. Simply put, why put in the effort to learn a new system that requires conversion and GM's putting more work into it when there isn't even a garuntee the other books will ever come out because of palladiums financial problems.

dark brandon wrote:

GreenGhost wrote:My players and I aren't really into magic in our BTS and BTS2 campaigns. So to be honest- none of us attempted to use magic. We didn't even try it since we weren't into it. So I see your argument about that keeping it from being a stand alone game in that reference.

While one may/may not use magic as a preference in the game, this does make it hard to call it a stand alone game. Because magic was neglected, but inserted into (the already limited number) of monsters, you're missing a part of their threat.

While I see your point, but because it is missing magic, it really isn't a complete game, and can't be called a complete game. Monsters and animals is a great supplament, don't get me wrong, but it lacks the threat level conversions which make it harder on a GM, especially new GM's who are new to palladium.

Personally, if I was a new GM, and I notice these problems, I'd probably skip over it. There are many horror games out there, and while palladium has the setting, it lacks the full mechanics.

I also understand palladiums reasonings for this, and I feel for them, but I don't think many new BTS fans are gonna care. Simply put, why put in the effort to learn a new system that requires conversion and GM's putting more work into it when there isn't even a garuntee the other books will ever come out because of palladiums financial problems.

I overlooked the magic problem since we don't use it. Once it was brought to my attention- I can only agree with it not being considered a stand alone game because of it.

As for gamers new to Palladium not being hooked by BTS2 because of the lack of monsters and magic- I can totally see that. I wouldn't want to try a new game that doesn't have everything in the book. Then again if it wasn't for their current financial problems I'm sure the books would have come out by now. I know Palladium releases most of their books late, but they have to be doing something right to keep me GMing their games for going on 20 years now. I'm sure (pretty sure) there are other long time Palladium gamers & GMs out there.

GreenGhost wrote:As for gamers new to Palladium not being hooked by BTS2 because of the lack of monsters and magic- I can totally see that. I wouldn't want to try a new game that doesn't have everything in the book. Then again if it wasn't for their current financial problems I'm sure the books would have come out by now.

I'm sure as well. Though tell someone who's new to palladium about the problems and why the books are not out yet and I'd be more willing to bet they wouldn't care one bit.

I know Palladium releases most of their books late, but they have to be doing something right to keep me GMing their games for going on 20 years now. I'm sure (pretty sure) there are other long time Palladium gamers & GMs out there.

I'm sure there are as well. Up until recently, I was a die-hard palladium fan. I'm still a fan mind you, I've just become more impressed with other gaming companies. I just happen to think that releasing unfinished books is bad practice.

On a personal note; BTS was the first RPG I ever owned, and with the release of BTS 2nded, and lack of material that was promised and not yet released (and there's a chance it may never be released), I feel palladium dropped the ball, and if you can't tell, taking it harder than I normally would than say for a RIFTS product. While I know it's not entirly their fault, I have grown tired of excuses.

As for the lack of equipment, I noticed that 'Systems Failure' seems to have a nice grab-bag of modern equipment in it - that would probably make an easy thing to carry along to refer to.

It is a darn shame about the magic, though.

I agree about the magic issue. I have not yet started my campaign as I require magic in it. I didn't want to start it and muddle through the magic when the book was supposed to be out to cover it. But I am happy with the book otherwise. I had little intention to utilize a gaggle of monsters so that book isn't needed. But with a magic based core for the campaign, it's hard to get started. I'm in the process of rewriting my campaign to remove the magical aspects the players would have needed and supplement it with the latent psychic abilities and some modified ritual magic which uses ISP.

Yeah, Beyond the Supernatural 2 is just great.
Oh, but if you want magic rules, you'll have to find a copy of the first edition.
Not enough enemies? Monster and Animals is cool. Go buy that!
And the equipment can be found in Systems Failure.

You think that would work as a sales pitch to a first time player?

>End Sarcasm<

I can see the lack of magic a problem but it isn’t hard to use magic from other games, HU, Nightbane, Rifts. The GM is just to have to make some changes.

As for equipment it is a contemporary horror game, which makes that issue easy. Use RL stuff and RL prices. Check out http://www.galls.com/ you’ll fine body armor and tacgear there, and it ain’t cheap.

Does anyone know when the other books might come out?

dark brandon wrote:I'm sure there are as well. Up until recently, I was a die-hard palladium fan. I'm still a fan mind you, I've just become more impressed with other gaming companies.

Agreed. I've pretty much converted completely over to the other system and will be using my Palladium books as fluff. I'm still a fan of Palladium and will probably still buy the new books ... probably.

I'm just being honest with myself, which system I and others like playing, and the gaming market in these parts. If it's between running a campaign and not running a campaign due to the system then I'll choose to run it.

jedi078 wrote:I can see the lack of magic a problem but it isn’t hard to use magic from other games, HU, Nightbane, Rifts. The GM is just to have to make some changes.

As for equipment it is a contemporary horror game, which makes that issue easy. Use RL stuff and RL prices. Check out http://www.galls.com/ you’ll fine body armor and tacgear there, and it ain’t cheap.

Does anyone know when the other books might come out?

No one said it wasn't possible. Just isn't very New palladium GM friendly, which is a problem.

I really hate the lack of equipment in this book. As for the canned “look it up the net” answer, that’s fine for tac gear and guns. But, what about ghost fighting gear? What about equipment geared toward paranormal investigation? I don’t think having to buy Ninjas and Superspies, Heroes unlimited or another book is cool at all.

DarKnyht wrote:However, it is still possible to play a fun and successful game if you put your GM creativity to work.

I'm tired of the "time to put GM creativity to work" excuse. Either the info is in the book or it's not. If it isn't or if it isn't in timely released supplements I'm going elsewhere as I've now done.

DarKnyht wrote:As for the lack in ghost detecting equipment, from what I have found online most are EMF meters, temperature gauges, and motion detectors. The reality is unless your character has built it, there is not a lot of ghost detecting equipment out there. I do not see BtS world faring much better because much like our world most people do not want to truly believe.

Define how these would work (EMF, temp, motion det.) would work in game mechanics. While I can look up RL ghost detecting equipment, none will give me mechanics on how they work IG. That's just the equipment. How would magic work? How are monsters (Like bogiemen) detectable with EMF, temp...ect...detectors?

mindwyr wrote:

DarKnyht wrote:However, it is still possible to play a fun and successful game if you put your GM creativity to work.

I'm tired of the "time to put GM creativity to work" excuse. Either the info is in the book or it's not. If it isn't or if it isn't in timely released supplements I'm going elsewhere as I've now done.

Technically, I agree. A GM's creativity should be there to add to the game, not complete it. In otherwords, a GM should have a choice, and in this case, he does not. Either he comes up with the things for the game, or the game is incomplete.