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Tell me why a human character can hold his own in Phase World vs. the RCCs. When you have players scrambling for pre-gen character sheets, why should someone pick the human and not feel less powerful or less cool?

Mr. Pook wrote: there is more than enough technology, magic, and OCC abilities to equalize pretty much any race in a Palladium setting.

I absolutely agree and I am not saying that humans are not as cool, but there are preceptions and misperceptions among players. I am looking for reasons to give the players why humans can hold their ground beyond just a quick perusal of statlines.

darkmax wrote:Because it is easier to think like a human....

sing it brother

'Cause I don't wanna be the munchkin of the group?
Besides, humans have the same benefit in PW that China enjoys IRL...

There's so many of em, give each one a (MD)stick and they could over-run the world!

Spinachcat wrote:Tell me why a human character can hold his own in Phase World vs. the RCCs. When you have players scrambling for pre-gen character sheets, why should someone pick the human and not feel less powerful or less cool?

Ah! You have discovered one of the central problems with Rifts... or in our case, Phase World. Everyone is "cooler" than a normal, unpsionic, 3D6-down-the-line Human.

So why play them?

In Rifts, the answer is: because the game is about the Human struggle. Humans are the underdog, and that in itself can be cool to play. This is why I always tended to see the Coalition as relatively good.

In Phase World, however, Human beings are frickin' everywhere! 12% of the population of the 3 G's are Human of one kind or another. This si why in Phase World, I cannot seem to find any love for the Humans... and in my games they are all generally selfish and evil. Still, when I started running this game a year and a half ago, I had five players... and not one of them was a Human!

So how can Humans "hold their own", as you say? Simple. They fight dirty and stick together in groups. Big groups.

Think about this: the Consortium Congress operates on a system of representation by population, meaning that the bigger a member world ro collective is, the more clout it has in Consortium affairs. This means that Humans, who are the most numerous in the CCW, have pretty much had majority control of the Congress for the past 700 years (since the CCW was founded). The Human Alliance can block, stall, or introduce and pass, just about any kind of legislation they want. Only an Executive Veto from the Prime Minister could stop them.

Want to make to make Artificial Intelligence illegal? Want to declare war on the TGE? Want to kick the T'Zee out of the Consortium forever and steal their technology? All those in favour say "Ai".

From a political and sociological point of view, Humans survive by looking out for themselves first and foremost; watching each others backs. hence, why they are so hated by most of the rest of the Three Galaxies.

In the smaller, Player Group scale, I can't give you an answer. Only the Game Master might be able to even the playing field by focusing the campaign on the Human struggle for identity in a universe full of intelligent life... or by limiting the number of uber-aliens that allowed in the group ("Sorry, only one Klingon Security Officer at a time").

Braden, GMPhD wrote:In Rifts, the answer is: because the game is about the Human struggle. Humans are the underdog, and that in itself can be cool to play. This is why I always tended to see the Coalition as relatively good.

Absolutely. I could easily run a CS campaign where I dropped the anti-literacy agenda and just ran a Human Survival campaign. I would probably make magic truly evil and fed not by ley line energy, but by demonic powers. Even in a standard Rifts, it makes sense to be human considering how the majority of the world is humanocentric. My personal suspicion is that Chaos Earth exists so we can play CS as heroes without that squicky nazi stuff hanging over our heads.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:In the smaller, Player Group scale, I can't give you an answer. Only the Game Master might be able to even the playing field by focusing the campaign on the Human struggle for identity in a universe full of intelligent life... or by limiting the number of uber-aliens that allowed in the group ("Sorry, only one Klingon Security Officer at a time").

I find this the major difference between Palladium games and other RPGs. Palladium gives lots and lots of stuff and the GM must lay down the law as to the player choices. I was re-reading the Holy Terror OCC last night and I started sputtering when I saw the 2D4 x10 regeneration for every 30 seconds. We can rationalize role-play issues and societal issues all day long, but holy poop nuts that's insane. So yeah, I fully agree that GM oversight is key.

A human survival campaign in 3G sounds much like David Brin's Uplift series (good stuff). I like your thoughts on how the humans watch each other's back across the 3G. I hope that is expanded upon in the new books. I could see humans becoming more popular if the players knew that "human connection" would be very useful in game.

Spinachcat wrote:Tell me why a human character can hold his own in Phase World vs. the RCCs. When you have players scrambling for pre-gen character sheets, why should someone pick the human and not feel less powerful or less cool?

Because some people don't need to have Powers or magic. Coolness is just something your born with

Based on Bradens responce, which is really cool, humans in the 3G are still underdogs. Compare most of the races in the Anvil Galaxy, they are predominantly MD creatures, making them far mor survivable and ultimatly less fun to play. Its not a big challange to get into a firefight in your spacer hard suit when you personally have more MDC than the armor itself. Incidentally in Bray's campaign i am the only SDC being, an Atlantean.

Greyaxe wrote:Based on Bradens responce, which is really cool, humans in the 3G are still underdogs. Compare most of the races in the Anvil Galaxy, they are predominantly MD creatures, making them far mor survivable and ultimatly less fun to play. Its not a big challange to get into a firefight in your spacer hard suit when you personally have more MDC than the armor itself. Incidentally in Bray's campaign i am the only SDC being, an Atlantean.

Funny, i've had tons of fun playing the only SDC human with MDC races before.

To elaborate, when Greyaxe started playing he was the only SDC being. But as of last time, most of the players have set their MDC aliens aside. By choice. It just gets boring after a while, and players want to tone things down a bit.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:But as of last time, most of the players have set their MDC aliens aside. By choice. It just gets boring after a while, and players want to tone things down a bit.

FASCINATING!!!

How long did it take for the players to decide to "tone things down" and how did the decision come about?

Go watch Farscape for inspiration. The main character is human in a galaxy full of aliens. He is the only true Human as we know it, everyone else is stronger or faster or smarter or has some strange powerful ability. Yet he always comes out on top. Why? Ingenuity. He can adapt and improvise his way out of anything, come at problems from a direction no one anticipates and in general just guile his way out of anything. John Chricton for the win!

My friends and I nicknamed the show "It sucks to be the human guy." He always has the worst things happening to him.

Shame it ended, but at least the actors are appearing on Stargate now.

It was a great show!

Spinachcat wrote:

Braden, GMPhD wrote:But as of last time, most of the players have set their MDC aliens aside. By choice. It just gets boring after a while, and players want to tone things down a bit.

FASCINATING!!!

How long did it take for the players to decide to "tone things down" and how did the decision come about?

Uh... 12 sessions. See, if the characters kept playing the "cosmic" level characters, then the game was dealing with cosmic-level things and ideas. but After a while, no one wanted to wrestle with the Time Travel aspect anymore, because it was too hard.

Now everyone is running guns to the Central Alliance. We'll get back to those other characters someday, but I think everyone just wanted to take things down a notch and relax.

Braden, GMPhD wrote:

Spinachcat wrote:

Braden, GMPhD wrote:But as of last time, most of the players have set their MDC aliens aside. By choice. It just gets boring after a while, and players want to tone things down a bit.

FASCINATING!!!

How long did it take for the players to decide to "tone things down" and how did the decision come about?

Uh... 12 sessions. See, if the characters kept playing the "cosmic" level characters, then the game was dealing with cosmic-level things and ideas. but After a while, no one wanted to wrestle with the Time Travel aspect anymore, because it was too hard.

Now everyone is running guns to the Central Alliance. We'll get back to those other characters someday, but I think everyone just wanted to take things down a notch and relax.

Most of them were killed off in a catastrophic crash of our space cruiser. THe survivors then spit our group into two halfs gun runners and the Cosmic campaign

Bray is an expert GM an can handle it.

Don't forget the ego of beating the crap outta someone as "Just a human"

Kittenstomp wrote:Also a lot of the races in PW have some low attributes. As of RUE all attributes 7 or less have penalties associated with them. That makes humans with their strict 3D6 (and possibility for exploding attributes) very nice to play. When any other species as a 7 or less, them's the breaks. When a human has a 7 or less he gets +1D4 to another attribute.

Where did that rule come from?

Kittenstomp wrote:When a human has a 7 or less he gets +1D4 to another attribute.

He does? Is this a new thing in RUE?

Do what I do in my 3G,s Games,just exchange the number of humans with a other race like in CCW the Noro are at the top with 21%,Wulfen are 20%,humans are 10%,Catyr are 12%,Seljusk are 12% and 24% are the other 200 races.

It,s your game you control the Numbers.

Darkmax wrote:

Greyaxe wrote:

Kittenstomp wrote:Also a lot of the races in PW have some low attributes. As of RUE all attributes 7 or less have penalties associated with them. That makes humans with their strict 3D6 (and possibility for exploding attributes) very nice to play. When any other species as a 7 or less, them's the breaks. When a human has a 7 or less he gets +1D4 to another attribute.

Where did that rule come from?

I remember something like this, but I can't quote the reference.

I don't have my book with me but I'm fairly certain it is in the attribute section of RUE.

..Yes, that rule is in the RUE mainbook under attribute rolls, and it makes for some really cool variations rolling straight 3D6.

..Why a human? Why anything else. We are human, if we try to RP something other than human, we are only focusing on one aspect of being human, instead of bringing the whole package. Since humans have no real knowledge of alien life, aliens in the books are just characatures of people.

..When people want to know why they should be a human, what they reallly need is a lesson on Role Playing. It's not just using the stats to your advantage, it's building a character that has a dynamic personality and as was mentioned above, use inginuity to get out of situations the other characters need their fancy stats to get out of.

-Mike >8]

Well that's interesting to note. Thanks for confirming this Mike.

On the other hand...

1, All things not equal. Period. Even in a "pure" human
party - like in the CS - there are officers and the rest
of the party.

2, Humans, while their average attributes usually fall
behind most alien races... Well their racial maximum
is very rarely surpassed. (*)And player characters are
supposed to be the "above the average".

3, All that said, if the GM and the party still wants
some measure of equality in the party, set different
experience levels, (material) backgrounds, etc.

Adios
KLM

(*) Of course supernatural PS is supernatural PS.
Yet, there are the power armors...

That is a very true obseervation KLM!

Maybe I can make it to a sig...

You play a human in Phase World because humans are inexplicably the most numerous folks in The Three Galaxies. Like megaversial rats, we're everywhere in bigger numbers than anyone else! And the beings of the universe like nothing more than to get to know us and have us attempt mating with their females....

"But Jim, I am stronger, smarter, and more qualified than you, but somehow you're the Captain. It's not Logical."

Mankind is winning out there, because mankind is writing all the books! It's nonsensical, but it works. OF COURSE you will spend all your time teaching The Noro chess, OF COURSE he wants to learn it, do you care about his culture? NO (except for that one adventure, but beyond that it's all about his interest in yours).

When it comes to Phase World, Man was made in CJ's image, of course you'd want to make a human!

I play a lot of humans, but I've played demi-humans too.

I guess there are a couple of OCC which are
"only human" (or at least "mostly human").

Like tattoo-classes, Temporal-magic OCCs,
and the like (CS Commando )

However, I like the D+D 3rd ed. solution, when
humans get extra skillpoint (and "feats"), as
racial bonus.

Adios
KLM

Other Reasons;
1) No problems getting fully cybered (no biological rejection / alergies).
2) Humanity is the rat of the megaverse; you can nuke an entire planet of the hairless monkeys, but they'll just keep breeding and comming back for more...and chew your leg off in the process.
3) Cuz no one wants to RP 'slug sex' (for those who don't do 'fade to black').

There are many more reasons, but really, not everyone wants to play a pointy eared emo-kid, or a 50 armed hard-shelled jelly-fish 'pilot' wanna-be (Farscape refference in regards to the Zebulon).

*wonders if 'humans' would be considered the 'new cockroaches' ... ? ....

sorry .. bad joke .. but attack us and we go underground and repopulate .. maybe NOT as fast as other races, but we sometimes drop 'litters' or 2 or more ... =p

man am i glad that its not a fact of 'every human you see means that there are 500 others ... ...

5 maybe .. not 500 ...

To a certain degree. But sometimes the infestation is a necessary evil!

Darkmax wrote:hmm..... the only one I know of that human isn't the majority is Farscape....

My friends and I nicknamed that show "It sucks to be the white guy." All the worst things happen to John Chrichton. Yet in the end he still ends up on top telling the major political powers to stick-it and they obey. That's the way a good Phase World game should be.

Darkmax wrote:actually, we have basically all agree we are an infestation in almost all sci-fi games.

The computers already classified us as a virus courtesy of Smith.

Like I said before it,s your Game,it,s you who control the numbers.

In my game the CCW only have 7% humans in it.

I use the numbers that are canon.

For my part I would be hard pressed to explain
why the rather aggressive Wolfen and the
"pacifist almost to extinction" Noros - without
the Human catalyst - formed the CCW...

...not impossible, just I find it uncomfortable.

But we are different.

-----------------------------
A nice little "humans are not ubiqtous" cartoon movie:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_A.E.

Nothing serious, but sets a nice mood.

Adios
KLM

They didn't even have their own planet... As the
movie starts with the Drej blasting Earth.

Numerous in the movie? Of course, since it
was about humans.

Nomerous in that galaxy? Hardly.

Adios
KLM

LostOne wrote:

Darkmax wrote:hmm..... the only one I know of that human isn't the majority is Farscape....

My friends and I nicknamed that show "It sucks to be the white guy." All the worst things happen to John Chrichton. Yet in the end he still ends up on top telling the major political powers to stick-it and they obey. That's the way a good Phase World game should be.

Sing it brother!!!

It's an interesting attempt to put lyrics to the shows theme.

I think it is!

I do!

I didn't expect that!


"Of course no one expects the spanish inquistion!"

Didn't expect that did you?

Good that means I can stil keep people guessing!

I know you've experienced that in person Flik!


I'm his GM!!!! :::Sinister laugh:::

duck-foot wrote:why play Humans becouse we are down right the most ambitious, daring, selfish and war-like race in the 3G's ya i know the Kreeghor are preety war-like, but they dont go and kill each other over spilt milk like we do.

You actually wait until someone spills you milk to go to war???

kamikazzijoe wrote:

duck-foot wrote:why play Humans becouse we are down right the most ambitious, daring, selfish and war-like race in the 3G's ya i know the Kreeghor are preety war-like, but they dont go and kill each other over spilt milk like we do.

You actually wait until someone spills you milk to go to war???

And sometimes I elbow my own milk over to provoke an incident....

Again, T'Zee will kill each other, before even having
a chance to spill that milk.

Adios
KLM

Hey, it is eating OUR sacred grass...