Page 1 of 1
Flight: Energy sucks compared to Flight: Wingless
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:45 pm
by Stattick
I just got done contrasting Flight: Wingless, and Flight: Energy.
Flight: Wingless is equal or better then Flight: Energy in every way. Flight: Energy also has a built in flaw that allows someone to track the super.
I don't get it. Flight: Energy should have at least
something it does better. Higher speed, better cornering, faster acceleration, but no.
*sigh*
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:19 pm
by znbrtn
i always thought that too. i'd just bump energy flight's speed up to be superior to wingless. maybe 260 to start.
Re: Flight: Energy sucks compared to Flight: Wingless
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:49 pm
by Warwolf
Stattick wrote:I don't get it. Flight: Energy should have at least something it does better.
Umm... does looking really kewl count?
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:59 pm
by Pepsi Jedi
I don't think they're ment to be equal. They're just different possibilities.
Not all hero's are equal and what not. Perhaps the activity of producing the tail in some way takes effort thus slowing you down or perhaps causes drag. Perhaps the way the energy sheads off of you, hurts if you exceed it's speed limits or the like.
If you don't like it there's others that minic it.
I think it's just different strokes for different folks.
I mean look at "Shrink" the major power...
Then look at Flight:Insect the minor power. You get shrink AND flight for a minor, instead of shrink major.
Interesting
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:33 pm
by speedy_petey
This is a rather interesting subject. I personally think that, since not everyone wants to be the most powerful hero out there, they may have made it lesser to be more interesting.
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:03 am
by Stattick
I like your way of thinking The Baron vonClogg.
I think I'll house rule it something like that:
Flight: Wingless = really fast, no combat bonuses
Flight: Winged = pretty fast, most manuverable, few combat bonuses (no extra attack)
Flight: Energy = really fast, no combat bonuses
Flight: Glide = slow speed and altitude, but all the normal combat bonuses, due to very fine control
I didn't compare the other Flight: powers.
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:45 pm
by sinestus
Kittenstomp wrote: For a power gamer who looks at the game as a "make the best killer" system, it seems stupid; why take a weaker power? The answer has more to do with roleplaying than rollplaying.
you are my favorite person right now.
that statement basically sums up the whole palladium system to me,
people are not equal, why should the system be...
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:53 pm
by Nekira Sudacne
The Baron vonClogg wrote:This shouldn't surprise you, as none of the Minor Flight powers are the equal of Wingless.... It's cool to say that "maybe not all heroes are equal," but Flight:Wingless is also the most over-powered Minor by a pretty fair chunk.
For a long time, I've been a proponent of taking away the "fine control" aspects of Wingless (in the form of the extra attack and combat bonuses) and granting them to Glide. Make one about speed, the other about combat.... Perhaps Winged could be a medium between the two, with less speed but some of the bonus? Energy Flight could have a high max speed balanced by a minimum speed that prevents hovering....
It's not only about balance; it's about giving the different powers some flavor!
it's about flavor, and balance be damned. That's what i've always felt about the Palladium Heros system
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:52 pm
by Sureshot
Kittenstomp wrote:What it comes down to is an inherent problem in the whole Heroes system. There are only two types of powers; major and minor and as a result no way to differentiate varying power levels within the major and minor categories. Flight: Energy is weaker than Flight: Wingless. For a player who is building a concept character that isn't a big deal. If I want to make a guy who flies via electrical energy, I'll take Flight: Energy even though it isn't as good because it fits with my character concept. For a power gamer who looks at the game as a "make the best killer" system, it seems stupid; why take a weaker power? The answer has more to do with roleplaying than rollplaying.
Very well said. Though in my experience it's always been the oppsite. Though sometimes they would just have generic powers that you could add options to as opposed to the endless variation of the same thing. Would make things simpler and still keep the flexiabilty imo.
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:28 am
by The Artist Formerly
THe real problem here is that we have a system that only allows for two levels of power when it really needs three or maybe four levels.
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:40 am
by sinestus
The Artist Formerly wrote:THe real problem here is that we have a system that only allows for two levels of power when it really needs three or maybe four levels.
ah, but within those two main catagories, are a plethora of sub-levels as each power has different capabilities....
then you add on magic and psionics...
and bionics...
etc..
this isn't a "fighter is rock, rogue is scissors, mage is paper, shaman is mushroom" universe... the icons on the screen don't limit the capabilities of your character.
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:59 pm
by Regularguy
Kittenstomp wrote:The real problem is that the genre of superheroes doesn't lend itself well to parity or fariness. Inevitably all levels are arbitrary; be they point based or tiered or hierarchical. What's better, invulnerability or teleportation?
But that's cool. This is more a case of
"What's better: invulnerability, or invulnerability and teleportation?"
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:14 pm
by Warwolf
Kittenstomp wrote:The answer has more to do with roleplaying than rollplaying.
It's just like the extraordinary and superhuman strength powers. Just because a more powerful alternative is there doesn't mean that it has to be used (and hence my previous comment).
But this is yet another situation where if (as a GM) a person wants to change an aspect of the game, they should do so. I personally have changed the name of "extraordinary" speed to "superhuman" speed and created a less powerful version to fit the former title.
It all comes down to an individual's tastes in gaming.
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:02 pm
by Uncle Servo
Warwolf wrote:Kittenstomp wrote:The answer has more to do with roleplaying than rollplaying.
It's just like the extraordinary and superhuman strength powers. Just because a more powerful alternative is there doesn't mean that it has to be used (and hence my previous comment).
But this is yet another situation where if (as a GM) a person wants to change an aspect of the game, they should do so. I personally have changed the name of "extraordinary" speed to "superhuman" speed and created a less powerful version to fit the former title.
It all comes down to an individual's tastes in gaming.
Throw me into this pile as well. Even if Flight: Energy isn't as powerful an ability than Flight: Wingless, I'll take it in a heartbeat if it fits into the overall character concept (such as if the character's an energy-blasting type or possibly has Rocket Fists).
To me, it's not about the power levels so much as a question of 'can I have fun playing this character?'
Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:13 pm
by goodhometownboy
well thats why you do what i do.. i made up a percentage chart that either increases power or decreases power or gives it a speacial ability (ie aps fire can be used in space) that way two people can have the same power but be at two differnt power levels