Just another weird question

[The Baron of chaos]

non serious and totally hypothetical.
Being Nightlord and Cosmo Knight two careers rather than a true RCC could , in theory only, an Adult Dragon become a nightlord and a Nightbane be choosed to become a CosmoKnight?
And if yes how much collateral damage would cause a total fight between the two?
And Could they become ninja ?(uh why the ninja you could ask..well is always time for a ninja!)

[drewkitty ~..~]

non serious and totally hypothetical.
Being Nightlord and Cosmo Knight two careers rather than a true RCC could , in theory only, an Adult Dragon become a nightlord and a Nightbane be choosed to become a CosmoKnight?
And if yes how much collateral damage would cause a total fight between the two?
And Could they become ninja ?(uh why the ninja you could ask..well is always time for a ninja!)

No, Why would an adult dragon want to become weaker?

No> supernatural beings are not chosen to become Cosmo Knights.


Yes. both can become ninja.

[9voltkilowatt]

Well ...if anything can transform a NightSpawn it's gotta be the Cosmic Forge!

[Rallan]

non serious and totally hypothetical.
Being Nightlord and Cosmo Knight two careers rather than a true RCC could , in theory only, an Adult Dragon become a nightlord and a Nightbane be choosed to become a CosmoKnight?
And if yes how much collateral damage would cause a total fight between the two?
And Could they become ninja ?(uh why the ninja you could ask..well is always time for a ninja!)

No, Why would an adult dragon want to become weaker?

No> supernatural beings are not chosen to become Cosmo Knights.


Yes. both can become ninja.

Weaker? A Nightlord might have less SDC (or MDC in mega-damage settings) than an adult dragon, but everything else is stacked the Nightlord's way. True immortality, regeneration out the wazoo, absolutely incredible powers over matter and energy, and he can still learn whatever the hell conventional magic he wants. If dragons could become Nightlords, the only reason they wouldn't is because they're fiercely independent, they'd have a better understanding than any human of what a fundamental transformation their mind and soul would undergo, and being a Nightlord isn't nearly as much of an upgrade for a dragon as it is for a human. Of course, dragons probably can't become Nightlords and only a completely insane GM would allow one as a PC, so it's kind of a moot point.

[The Baron of chaos]

I told ya is an hypothetical question. Even I, infamous for being lead to such munchkin behavior, cannot truly allow such thing.
BUT
A very evil and insane dragon could decide to become a nightlord. Such thing happened in past, with arrogant and ambitious blind dragon becoming followers of very evil powerful things.Albeit i'm prone to think it would become a very unique thing. different from the human based nightlords. As for the Cosmon Knight Nightbane, well here there is the immunity to shapechange of the banes. But becoming cosmo knight is not related to shapechange, rather to receive a fragment of infinite power.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I told ya is an hypothetical question. Even I, infamous for being lead to such munchkin behavior, cannot truly allow such thing.
BUT
A very evil and insane dragon could decide to become a nightlord. Such thing happened in past, with arrogant and ambitious blind dragon becoming followers of very evil powerful things.Albeit i'm prone to think it would become a very unique thing. different from the human based nightlords. As for the Cosmon Knight Nightbane, well here there is the immunity to shapechange of the banes. But becoming cosmo knight is not related to shapechange, rather to receive a fragment of infinite power.

I don't see any dragon being a 'follower' of anything other then maybe a Dragon God. Besides both of the options being discused bind the reciver to the will of the the AI. All being said, NL's and CK's are just more powerfull forms of witchs, with the former being on the evil side and the latter on the good side.

So why would an AUDLT Dragon submit its indipendent minded will to being just another pawn of some AI? Not in my book.

[Chaos]

But could a Nightspawn/bane become a Cosmo Knight (Theoretically?) thats the part I am most interested in in this discussion.

As to the Dragon Nightlords I go with drew and others on this one.

[JTwig]

But could a Nightspawn/bane become a Cosmo Knight (Theoretically?) thats the part I am most interested in in this discussion.

As to the Dragon Nightlords I go with drew and others on this one.

No, if I remember right aren't Nightspawn immune to "any" magical transformation. Which would mean they were immune from being transformed into a Cosmo Knight. Also, doesn't the Cosmic Forge choose non-supernatural beings for Cosmo Knight? Last time I checked Nightspawn were defenatly supernatural.

Of course on the off chance that as a GM I allowed it (why not, lets try anything once) I would have the Nightspawn lose all of its Talents, and maybe even it morphwhatit form (you know, its freaky appearance).

As for Nightlords turning into Cosmo Knight, I wouldn't. Even a Nightlord that suddenly turn to the light would not chose to become a Cosmo Knight, since they would lose a lot of power and thus be less effective in the fight against the Dark.

[The Baron of chaos]

Nightlords converting to light? Are you joking that's so out of reality, out of topic and out of sanity. No chance that the cosmic forge would evne touch them with a pole.
My idea is that weak , mad dragons, could in theory accept to become Nightlords. As i said it has happened sometimes. After all being arrogant psychopathic egomaniacal never seem to be a problem for nightlords.
As for Nightbanes, their immunity to transformation woudl not be a porblem, after all True Atlanteans can become Cosmo Knight , i fi remember correctly, so Nihgtbane can too. But probably Cosmic forge and The Dark follow the same phylosophy. No supernatural followers. not since the dragons and Lictalon cheated and tricked the Old Ones. they are too samrt to trust them. Mortals on other hand are so naive and gullible. They bleieve whatever you say to them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

But could a Nightspawn/bane become a Cosmo Knight (Theoretically?) thats the part I am most interested in in this discussion.

To a Doom style answer...


No.

[TechnoGothic]

Does not matter IF a Nightbane can become a Cosmo-Knight or not.

Why ??

IF a Nightbane does become a Cosmo-Knight he ceases to be a Nightbane. He loses all his Nightbane Abilities, Powers, Talents, Attributes, Skills, etc...ALL Replaced with Cosmo-Knight ABilities, Powers, Attributes, skills...

IF you really really wish a Nightbane to become a Cosmo-Knight, just make a Cosmo-Knight. The character becomes a NEW character anyways...

[The Baron of chaos]

T-gothic made a quite right answer. Probably the same is true if a dragon become a Nightlord. The bes ti cna think is that they keep their different shapes and natural attacks. Example the Bane morphus will become part of his armor, except stigmatas who will be removed, unless they fall. So A nightbane with a werewolf like morphus, would look human and have a werewolf shaped armor. Probably will use his cosmo knight power to reply some of his past talents.
Nightlord dragon will be able to retain her draconic fomr, albeit now looking somethign betweena Dragon and an Hound, and will likely be slightly PHYSICALLY stronger than a normla nightlords. Also most of nightlord powers will be shot as breath weapons rather with hands claws. Also Dragons are very likely to not forget their mystical skills. Giving them an edge over the human nightlords.

Uhmm if i recall correctly there was a thread on this board abour Nightlords vs. Cosmo KNight and how the match would end up in a physical Brawl, right?

[9voltkilowatt]

Did anybody stop to think that its not really upto the dragon as to wether they become a Nightlord, it's the Darks choice. And theres not much of a chance that it will suddenly pick a strong-willed, independent supernatural creature when it can offer that power to a lesser being who will have no true comprehension of what they just agreed to. One is the pawn of virtually every being with even a hint of power while the other managed to secretly lead the rebellion against the Old Ones!

Theories be damned, let common sense tell you how it is.

[9voltkilowatt]

So why are there only two nightlords with any traffic with the Dark?

Because its hard to pull in all those power hungry gimps without some kind of disciple to sucker them into it. Besides, how many of these kinds of beings ever actually care to make personal contact with their minions?

What it comes down to is that the Dark needs one or two head gimps to pull in all those other lesser gimps.

[The Baron of chaos]

Did anybody stop to think that its not really upto the dragon as to wether they become a Nightlord, it's the Darks choice. And theres not much of a chance that it will suddenly pick a strong-willed, independent supernatural creature when it can offer that power to a lesser being who will have no true comprehension of what they just agreed to. One is the pawn of virtually every being with even a hint of power while the other managed to secretly lead the rebellion against the Old Ones!

Theories be damned, let common sense tell you how it is.

I told ya to start tha tthis is nothing more than purely theoretical thing, nothign more than a mind game. Anyway We accdentalyl answered WHY there are no Dragon Witch of any type. Since the great betrayal of the Old Ones, only a stupid Unearthly Force(is really hard find somethign that soudn better than Alien Intelligence) will really lend some power to them and really hope for loyalty and submission. Nahh is more likley that the dragons would try to STEAL the power in question in some way, perhaps trough a secret lost ritual, or with new experimental ritual mixing magic and technology(uhmmm I see the basis for a very nasty campaign here).

[Rallan]

Did anybody stop to think that its not really upto the dragon as to wether they become a Nightlord, it's the Darks choice. And theres not much of a chance that it will suddenly pick a strong-willed, independent supernatural creature when it can offer that power to a lesser being who will have no true comprehension of what they just agreed to. One is the pawn of virtually every being with even a hint of power while the other managed to secretly lead the rebellion against the Old Ones!

Theories be damned, let common sense tell you how it is.

Um... no.

What you seem to be forgetting is that the folks who became Nightlords generally seem to have been strong-willed, independent, and (as far as we can tell) supremely talented in the magic arts. It ain't like the Host on Wormwood where any human mad enough to sacrifice his own existence is a viable candidate, you've got to be hardcore. Molek wasn't just any ol' zany cultist, he was a sorceror and a king who dedicated years of study to finding a powerful supernatural force that nobody else had ever discovered. And the first folks to join him as Nightlords weren't just gullible schmucks who got suckered in by a smooth sales pitch, they were the best of his lieutenants and brightest of his apprentices. The Dark's used to dealing with strong-willed people who know their stuff. It's apparently got high standards. If it were physically possible for dragons to become Nightlords, and if a dragon ever visited Nightbane Earth, and if it ever figured out the secret to becoming a Nightlord, I doubt it would get knocked back for not being as biddable as a human.

Plus rumour has it that there's already at least one strong-willed, independent supernatural creature who became a Nightlord. We don't know much about the guy, and his historical write-up is even briefer and more speculative than most, but in the brief section about Lord Mocker in the Nightlands sourcebook it says that he was either a powerful sorceror from the earliest period of ancient Egyptian civilization, or a supernatural critter from another world masquerading as human.

[Rallan]

Did anybody stop to think that its not really upto the dragon as to wether they become a Nightlord, it's the Darks choice. And theres not much of a chance that it will suddenly pick a strong-willed, independent supernatural creature when it can offer that power to a lesser being who will have no true comprehension of what they just agreed to. One is the pawn of virtually every being with even a hint of power while the other managed to secretly lead the rebellion against the Old Ones!

Theories be damned, let common sense tell you how it is.

So why are there only two nightlords with any traffic with the Dark?

As far as I can tell, the most logical answer would be because Moloch kills every other Nightlord who tries. Moloch's clearly a dude who doesn't take threats to his authority kindly. He's ganked other Nightlords for trying to rebel, he's ganked other Nightlords for refusing to do what he tells them, and he's presumably ganked quite a few Nightlords just because they looked like they were getting too big for their boots. Hell, he downright encourages them to compete among themselves and turns a blind eye to them killing each other as long as they don't destabilise his rule. He uses a combination of ruthless brutality and an environment of fierce competition to ensure that nobody becomes a threat to his rule.

Meanwhile, let's look at Mocker. He signed up as a Nightlord some time near the dawn of ancient Egypt, yet he didn't develop the same sort of connection to the Dark as Moloch until the early 20th century. He went to what would have to have been some of 4000 BC Nightland's least desirable real estate: Russia. He then spend the next six thousand years staking a claim as far as possible from Moloch. He'd have had to wait millenia before any cities in his part of the world got large enough to spawn Nightlands versions of themselves. And when the place finally had some assets worth looking at, he'd have had to spend pretty much the entire most recent two thousand years fending off the various Nightlords from China, Central Asia, and Eastern Europe who tried to muscle in on his territory, gradually building his power base and accumulating more vassals and doing a delicate balancing act of keeping Moloch's influence in his territories to a minimum while not seeming too independent to suit Moloch's tastes.

Basically the only reason a second Nightlord with a link to the Dark exists at all is because that second Nightlord spent six thousand years quietly building an empire and becoming the second most powerful Ba'al in the Nightlands before he finally decided to go balls-out and forge that link. If he hadn't built up such an unassailably strong position, Moloch probably would've bamfed in and ganked Mocker ninety years ago.

[The Baron of chaos]

Uhmm yes. The pahtway of a Nightlords is not an easy one. Actually it is logical. To become a withc you've to contact the supernatural entity in question, first. And this means searching things like, rituals, true names, and so on. Generally while withces are not known to be smart to start, they generally studied enought he occult and magic , in order to contact their masters. For the Night lrods is even more harder, in thatt he dark is , like the old one, a sealed evil thing, that force of good had done the best to erase it from memories. Is not easy. On the opposite anyone worht enough coudl be choose to beocme a cosmo knight. Hey thinking about it , Cosmo Knight and Nightlords are TRULY one the opposite of other, even if they don't share the same universe.

[The Baron of chaos]

I think that one feature of linking to the dark is the ability to create other nightlords, much like a king can name someone a baron in name of god. This means that the ritual to contact the Dark directly are kept secrete by those two(nobody want to share power) while most just plea favor to Moloch (more common) or Mock.
Infact At the birth of their race, Moloch was the first one and then he remade his lieutenants into Nightlords. There is a sort of feuadal gerarchy in this. Some nightlords probably don't evne know about the Dark, but think their power come from their masters. A simple way to ensure loyalty.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well ...if anything can transform a NightSpawn it's gotta be the Cosmic Forge!

Prehaps, nothing can.

[The Baron of chaos]

Never say never, Nekira. Perhaps with some psychiatric help the Cosmic forge can sculpt the Morphus and then just add a lot of powaaahhhhhhhh|

[Rallan]

So if two Nightlords have ties to the Dark, what gives with the assumption the Dark is the source of their power? I'll buy its why Mocker and Moloch are more than the average Nightlord, but the Nightlord path to power seems more personal growth and learning rather than a witch like pact or hidden support.

I think the gist of it is that all Nightlords have allowed themselves to be fundamentally transformed by the Dark, and a part of it imbues them with their badassery. It's just that Nightlords like Mocker and Moloch have a much stronger, closer link to the Dark than their colleagues, presumably because they've either found ways to transcend the limitations of other Nightlords and embrace more of the Dark's power than the others can handle, or because the Dark selected them to act as leaders of their kind.